[edit]Doh. Typo in the title. Never good. [/edit]
Well I was trying to make this into a poll but I couldn't tie the options down so I just decided to start a topic instead.
Should Shadowrun 4 make magic more common? Should there be a more varying scale of magical aptitude akin to the 'astral adept' discussions held previously on the shadowrun boards? Should characters have the capacity to awaken mid-game?
I find a world in which characters, in-theory any characters, can eventually awaken an interesting one. Obviously highly cybered characters will have a hard time, but they have other goodies.
Characters buy various magical abilities, ranging from just Astral Perception to full Sorcery and Conjuring of all forms of spirits. In this world it's far more likely that you'll be confounded with a guard or passer-by who can see astral activities, and also leaves a whole world of hurt for magical characters to expand into
There have been limited forms of this seen in previous books, Year of the Comet, for one, has SURGE which can give a character a magic attribute of 1 and astral perception.
So, is this a good idea or a bad one? Can it fit with the SR world (remembering YOTC mini-awakenings) or is the current system set-in-stone? Out of what I suggest here, what works and what doesn't?
Full Version: Shoudl Shadowrun 4 make magic more common
yep.
I like the idea of being able to develop magical ability later on, but I also think it should be a major committment, not something that you do on a dare or because you're bored one weekend.
If entry into magical ability is too easy, it loses its special feeling, it becomes mundane. (This is true both in terms of setting/fiction and rules/point costs--and the two ought to match; if they don't, for players, the rules/point costs will override the fiction in most cases.)
If entry into magical ability is too easy, it loses its special feeling, it becomes mundane. (This is true both in terms of setting/fiction and rules/point costs--and the two ought to match; if they don't, for players, the rules/point costs will override the fiction in most cases.)
nope. That would change a lot of pre-existing canon. It's something you're born with, in your gentic makeup.
Should that completly preclude something cool in game happening? No, but I wouldn't want to see rules for it. That would devalue the whole concept.
Should that completly preclude something cool in game happening? No, but I wouldn't want to see rules for it. That would devalue the whole concept.
| QUOTE (Eldritch) |
| nope. That would change a lot of pre-existing canon. It's something you're born with, in your gentic makeup. |
But there are cann examples of how characters can become awakened. I give SURGE -> Astral Perception as an example of this. To speak mumbo-jumbo at you: Although you may only get what you're born with, as more manna refracts through the awakened genes it seems possible to attain higher levels of power
Ideally it'd cost a fair bit, I agree with Ellery that if everyone was awakened the world would become less interesting.
magical talent has not yet been proven to be a genetic trait in SR. there is no conclusive evidence that supports that theory.
and even if there were, very few people come into their awakened powers from birth--most express those powers at some later point in their lives. the current rules don't allow for the expression of those powers after chargen. i think this is a mistake.
and even if there were, very few people come into their awakened powers from birth--most express those powers at some later point in their lives. the current rules don't allow for the expression of those powers after chargen. i think this is a mistake.
| QUOTE |
| nope. That would change a lot of pre-existing canon. It's something you're born with, in your gentic makeup |
Something about midiclorians.....
I'd rather not see rules for aquiring magic in game. Once, and only once, have I ever allowed an apparent mundane to acquire magical skills, and it was only a result of a hand-of-god karma burn, resulting in the loss of a few essence points of beta-ware (and even then, it turned out that the PC didn't have magical skills at all, but was being duped by a free spirit that wanted her to think she had become a shaman)
Yeah, there's been no proof, but IIRc a lot of the books pointed that way.
Yeah, most magic doesn't express till maturity, but that is not an uncommon theme with 'powers', and so it fairly plauseable in a scifi/fantasy campaign.
And if you're gonna change that, then you perhaps you should consider the karma for essence argument as well.
Yeah, most magic doesn't express till maturity, but that is not an uncommon theme with 'powers', and so it fairly plauseable in a scifi/fantasy campaign.
And if you're gonna change that, then you perhaps you should consider the karma for essence argument as well.
If you are worrying about canon, there is LOTS of canon of previously unknown magical abilities and properties manifesting for the first time in a grown person. After all the sixth world is still on the magical upswing. It would also help explain gaining only a little bit of magic at first.
I don't see this meshing with the (strongly hinted at) rules that starting Magic is set at chargen, and can later only be increased via Initiation.
| QUOTE (Fortune) |
| I don't see this meshing with the (strongly hinted at) rules that starting Magic is set at chargen, and can later only be increased via Initiation. |
Unless you Initiated for your first point? Or you threw a big pile of karma towards becoming a 0.0001 Magic awakened (verge of burnout, but headed in the other direction) where you could do a little of this or that and then Initiated for the first point.
But yes, in terms of game rules i think here be dragons...so to speak.
Don't the cannon (or is it canon) statistics for the number of awakened individuals metion that a large percentage of people with magical potential never realize it?
If that's right, then ainign magic later in life is most definately possible, just not likely, and most definately very difficult. An optional rule for how to deal with a newly awakened character's magic attribute and starting spell wouldn't be outside the setting's ambiance. But now that 4th edition is on the way, its a garuntee that we won't see any official attempt at this. For the new addition, with a magic attribute potentially being treated like all other attributes, maybe simply requiring a magical attribute of at least one at character creation to indicate magical potential will be a sufficient way to deal with such possibilities.
If someone wants a 3rd ed. opinion: a good IC situation (somethign extremely stressful, more stressful than a running firefight with serious physical and stun damage) could awaken a character with magical potential. Charge the character the karma cost of raising his magic attribute from 0 to 6, 42 karma, (maybe penalizing future karma awards to simulate getting used to a whole new world (and new set of senses)) and giving him one force 6 spell that can save him from whatever situation is causing his stress...
Just my two cents...
S'Ren
If that's right, then ainign magic later in life is most definately possible, just not likely, and most definately very difficult. An optional rule for how to deal with a newly awakened character's magic attribute and starting spell wouldn't be outside the setting's ambiance. But now that 4th edition is on the way, its a garuntee that we won't see any official attempt at this. For the new addition, with a magic attribute potentially being treated like all other attributes, maybe simply requiring a magical attribute of at least one at character creation to indicate magical potential will be a sufficient way to deal with such possibilities.
If someone wants a 3rd ed. opinion: a good IC situation (somethign extremely stressful, more stressful than a running firefight with serious physical and stun damage) could awaken a character with magical potential. Charge the character the karma cost of raising his magic attribute from 0 to 6, 42 karma, (maybe penalizing future karma awards to simulate getting used to a whole new world (and new set of senses)) and giving him one force 6 spell that can save him from whatever situation is causing his stress...
Just my two cents...
S'Ren
Magic shouldn't be more common in my opinion. I like it to have a certain rarity in game. It emphasizes the balance between cyber/bio and magic. Also, magic is coming back to the world in a natural cycle, like the seasons each year. Since this happens over a long period of time it should be gradual, again, like seasons.
Becoming a mage int he middle of the game is cool, I've had players do this. Granted I made them pay for it at character creation. Otherwise, no sale. This has more to do with balance than anything but also, when you make your character your not "IC" yet and you can metagame. If you think you may want magic later, you're paying for it. It's also pretty realistic, you're either born with it or you arent.
Becoming a mage int he middle of the game is cool, I've had players do this. Granted I made them pay for it at character creation. Otherwise, no sale. This has more to do with balance than anything but also, when you make your character your not "IC" yet and you can metagame. If you think you may want magic later, you're paying for it. It's also pretty realistic, you're either born with it or you arent.
People being born with magical ability shouldn't get much mroe common, however, the percentage of people who get discovered and trained should significantly increase with the second generation of the awakened being born. While it was likely that magical potential could not be detected shortly after birth with the first generation, the second generation will have the advantage having a chance of being detected before actually awakening (I believe its four or six successes on an assensing test).
While most hospitals wouldn't likely have the spare cash to keep a couple mages around just for maternity duty, but several corporations might hire several older, non-combat, style awakened characters to make such rounds so they could keep records of who is awakened and make sure the propper loyalties are instilled in the family with the newborn mage so they can harvest the children for service later in life.
While this might not, on the surface, increase the number of magical PCs, I never thought of mages truly being "average-joes". If you have magical potential, then you are someone. If you are a "no-one" when you awaken, a corp or government recruits you to make you a "someone important". This sort of treament, makes two main types of people, those loyal to the recruiters, and those who rebel from the recruiters. Either way, mages are taken out of the pool of average joes, and are either PCs or friends/foes of PCs. The PCs in a typical SR game will encounter more awakened (meta)humans than a non-shadowrunner because the awakened are far more likely to end up in important places as test subjects, those who use test subjects, those who protect those who use or are test subjects and those who endanger/kidnap test subject and those who use them... (was that clear as mud?)
In the end, the current priority system still keeps the mage-to-runner ratio rather high, so no serious change will be necessary to reflect the increased number of trained awakened shadowrunners. But it would be nice to see some official, but optional, rules to accomodate different campaign styles, but thats probably my bias for theme games and optional rules.
two more cents...
S'Ren
While most hospitals wouldn't likely have the spare cash to keep a couple mages around just for maternity duty, but several corporations might hire several older, non-combat, style awakened characters to make such rounds so they could keep records of who is awakened and make sure the propper loyalties are instilled in the family with the newborn mage so they can harvest the children for service later in life.
While this might not, on the surface, increase the number of magical PCs, I never thought of mages truly being "average-joes". If you have magical potential, then you are someone. If you are a "no-one" when you awaken, a corp or government recruits you to make you a "someone important". This sort of treament, makes two main types of people, those loyal to the recruiters, and those who rebel from the recruiters. Either way, mages are taken out of the pool of average joes, and are either PCs or friends/foes of PCs. The PCs in a typical SR game will encounter more awakened (meta)humans than a non-shadowrunner because the awakened are far more likely to end up in important places as test subjects, those who use test subjects, those who protect those who use or are test subjects and those who endanger/kidnap test subject and those who use them... (was that clear as mud?)
In the end, the current priority system still keeps the mage-to-runner ratio rather high, so no serious change will be necessary to reflect the increased number of trained awakened shadowrunners. But it would be nice to see some official, but optional, rules to accomodate different campaign styles, but thats probably my bias for theme games and optional rules.
two more cents...
S'Ren
| QUOTE (Eldritch) |
| And if you're gonna change that, then you perhaps you should consider the karma for essence argument as well. |
i don't see how this follows. "allowing people's magic to express after chargen" and "allowing people to buy essence with karma" are not even peripherally related.
Yeah, it is a little - in regards to char growth later in thier career. If you want to allow someone that was a street sam learn magic, then why not allow the sam to buy essence and improve in that way instead?
because methods already exist for reducing essence costs, effectively granting characters extra essence. but that's irrelevant--allowing characters to awaken post-chargen does not necessarily or logically lead to allowing characters to regrow essence in any way. there's no logical progression, there.
| QUOTE (Eldritch) |
| nope. That would change a lot of pre-existing canon. It's something you're born with, in your gentic makeup. |
The assumption is that if a character develop magic after chargen, he "had it in him" all allong and just recently developped it.
It's like turning force sensitive in Star Wars.
There should be more magic as the mana level increases. Maybe "casual" magicans is going to be a posability on low levels of the magic attribute as a result of this. I wouldn´t mind alowing for characters to develope magic later on in a game. There wouldn´t be any conflict with the fluff in current canon, me thinks. But I also see merit in some characters never ever being able to get magical abilities. There´s something special in that magic is completely alien to most characters. Something they will never master or even understand.
Some interesting discussion here... Let me just throw another couple of defenseless, squishy, elves to the ghouls:
Only one of these would really be needed:
New Flaw: Complete Mundane
Cost: -1 (or something small)
Characters with this flaw can never, ever, awaken. Not ever. Not in a million years. This flaw can't be bought off without paying for at-least 1 year's supply of pizza for the GM and other players or giving the GM sexual favours. Yes it's easiest if you're the GM's GF/BF but your character's probably immortal/all-powerful anyway.
New Edge: Magical Potential
Cost: 1, 2 for characters with cyberware (something from 1-5. Astral Sight is 6)
Characters with this flaw have the potential to awaken. They may or may not know this. Some may have been screened and been told they do have magical potential, some may have no idea, some may even have suspicions even though they've never been told and didn't show-up on a screening. Players should refer to table ABC on page 123 for appropriate karma costs for awakening.
Option 1 means the quick route to power is with being mundane. probably enough characters would take option 1 to make after chargen awakenings a thing of rarity.
Option 2 means they need to think in advance wether or not they ever want their character to become awakened. It could be an interesting role-playing point for characters who have been told they have magical potential, and an interesting power-gaming point for the sammie in a group that doesn't do Cash for Karma. Obviously it'd cost more for cybered peeps.
I like option 2.
Only one of these would really be needed:
New Flaw: Complete Mundane
Cost: -1 (or something small)
Characters with this flaw can never, ever, awaken. Not ever. Not in a million years. This flaw can't be bought off without paying for at-least 1 year's supply of pizza for the GM and other players or giving the GM sexual favours. Yes it's easiest if you're the GM's GF/BF but your character's probably immortal/all-powerful anyway.
New Edge: Magical Potential
Cost: 1, 2 for characters with cyberware (something from 1-5. Astral Sight is 6)
Characters with this flaw have the potential to awaken. They may or may not know this. Some may have been screened and been told they do have magical potential, some may have no idea, some may even have suspicions even though they've never been told and didn't show-up on a screening. Players should refer to table ABC on page 123 for appropriate karma costs for awakening.
Option 1 means the quick route to power is with being mundane. probably enough characters would take option 1 to make after chargen awakenings a thing of rarity.
Option 2 means they need to think in advance wether or not they ever want their character to become awakened. It could be an interesting role-playing point for characters who have been told they have magical potential, and an interesting power-gaming point for the sammie in a group that doesn't do Cash for Karma. Obviously it'd cost more for cybered peeps.
I like option 2.
Awakenings in game can be funny for example when the sam with 4 esseence woth of 'ware awakens.
But I agree that it should be rare.
But I agree that it should be rare.
I see this as two different topics:
Topic 1 is sort of game balance: should Samurai Sam be allowed to awaken in midgame when Karl Kombatmage invested a lot of his chargen ressources into the privilege of being/ becoming a Magic user. In my games everybody has the chance to awaken, for a price, that is. Spiritual trainings, Yoga Classes just grab a catalouge of some retreat an you have the prices and time efforts. It takes time and determination. So the "talented" character will still develop faster and easier.
Not to mention the awakend character has better ways to distinguish crap from prime training. (Imagining a cat shaman con artist selling "date with destiny" seminars to execs on a search for meaning in their life. Promotion Material feed: Do you feel psychic? Maybe you are? Visit our Date with Destiny seminars to create "Magick" in your life! brought to you by "Fritz the Cat" and the fine prints read: "Fritz the Cat" is a registered trademark of Aztech Seminars & Conventions International...)
Topic 2 is about how you view your world (of Shadowrun): Is every being able to advance spiritually? IMO yes, you are! Is everybody aware of his "Talent"? No! I see magical ability as a sort of skill that reflects a certain amount of personal and spiritual development and insight in the workings of the world. I view the awakened Character as a sort of talented Person, not as "genetically" Superior (or inferior as in the Humanis Rhetoric) its like a talent with music or sports, you could have it in you without ever touching a piano - specially when you are raised in the barrens. The Mana Level might not yet be high enough for "ungifted" people to sling spells or conjure spirits but the sixth world is still on its way...
Topic 1 is sort of game balance: should Samurai Sam be allowed to awaken in midgame when Karl Kombatmage invested a lot of his chargen ressources into the privilege of being/ becoming a Magic user. In my games everybody has the chance to awaken, for a price, that is. Spiritual trainings, Yoga Classes just grab a catalouge of some retreat an you have the prices and time efforts. It takes time and determination. So the "talented" character will still develop faster and easier.
Not to mention the awakend character has better ways to distinguish crap from prime training. (Imagining a cat shaman con artist selling "date with destiny" seminars to execs on a search for meaning in their life. Promotion Material feed: Do you feel psychic? Maybe you are? Visit our Date with Destiny seminars to create "Magick" in your life! brought to you by "Fritz the Cat" and the fine prints read: "Fritz the Cat" is a registered trademark of Aztech Seminars & Conventions International...)
Topic 2 is about how you view your world (of Shadowrun): Is every being able to advance spiritually? IMO yes, you are! Is everybody aware of his "Talent"? No! I see magical ability as a sort of skill that reflects a certain amount of personal and spiritual development and insight in the workings of the world. I view the awakened Character as a sort of talented Person, not as "genetically" Superior (or inferior as in the Humanis Rhetoric) its like a talent with music or sports, you could have it in you without ever touching a piano - specially when you are raised in the barrens. The Mana Level might not yet be high enough for "ungifted" people to sling spells or conjure spirits but the sixth world is still on its way...
Sunshine, I would rapidly and completely disagree with you. I don't think that just anyone should be allowed to awaken. The ability to channel magic is more than just some nebulous amount of 'personal and spiritual development and insight'. In the fiction and the mechanics, being Awakened is very rare (despite the masses of awakened characters that turn up in gaming groups). If it isn't a strictly genetic trait, then it's still something that nine out of ten people will NEVER have a chance of acheiving, no matter what. You can take all the high-priced 'spiritual training' you can cram into the time you're not sleeping, and still be completely mundane, otherwise everybody with time to head down to their local meditation center (or whatever) would be Awakened and have magic of some sort. That you can identify magically gifted people by Assensing them before they Awaken is a sign of this.
Personally, I would only allow a mundane character to Awaken in-game under extreme circumstances. Anything else just violates the established way SR magic works.
Personally, I would only allow a mundane character to Awaken in-game under extreme circumstances. Anything else just violates the established way SR magic works.
Hoi Sharaloth, and thanks for your comment
I wrote my post from a GM point of view: How do I balance the game for my players? Do I slap a "bad luck - no mojo for you!" in the face of a player who placed a great effort of character development, drama, story and karma into developing magic? No. Do I start a gaming night out with a sales pitch on "lets gat awakend? No. I think that, despite SR is a dark future cyberpunk setting, my players take the lead in the story and are some sort of (anti) Heroes and therfore special. They fight hard to survive, and they pay a fair price for becoming magic users if they decide to opt for this way. I agree with you, not anyone should be allowed to awaken, but for my players, they are someone, not anyone. I even think that 995 out of 1000 people will NEVER EVER turn "magic" in SR Universe.
Quote: That you can identify magically gifted people by Assensing them before they Awaken is a sign of this.
I dont think assensing is a foolproof method in this process, as I never read - not in the mechanics and not in fiction - that there is a surefire method of identifying magic talent or guaranteeing that somebody is 100% magic free, that is.
Whatever your established way of SR Magic is, I leave the option open to my players. Playing SR is about having a good time by telling a dramatic, cool and thrilling story and if "awakening" in mid game fits to that, then its the way to go.
I wrote my post from a GM point of view: How do I balance the game for my players? Do I slap a "bad luck - no mojo for you!" in the face of a player who placed a great effort of character development, drama, story and karma into developing magic? No. Do I start a gaming night out with a sales pitch on "lets gat awakend? No. I think that, despite SR is a dark future cyberpunk setting, my players take the lead in the story and are some sort of (anti) Heroes and therfore special. They fight hard to survive, and they pay a fair price for becoming magic users if they decide to opt for this way. I agree with you, not anyone should be allowed to awaken, but for my players, they are someone, not anyone. I even think that 995 out of 1000 people will NEVER EVER turn "magic" in SR Universe.
Quote: That you can identify magically gifted people by Assensing them before they Awaken is a sign of this.
I dont think assensing is a foolproof method in this process, as I never read - not in the mechanics and not in fiction - that there is a surefire method of identifying magic talent or guaranteeing that somebody is 100% magic free, that is.
Whatever your established way of SR Magic is, I leave the option open to my players. Playing SR is about having a good time by telling a dramatic, cool and thrilling story and if "awakening" in mid game fits to that, then its the way to go.
Let me ask you this: You've been running a game for a 3-4 months and the sammie has a bucketload of extra karma. He tells you that he'd like to have his character awaken.
What do you say?
You tell him No, as it's not possible after chargen
You tell him No, even though there are listed prices for it, as it doesn't fit with your plans
You tell him that he'll be able to do it by paying for the pizza and giving sexual favours
You tell him Yes, when it's appropriately dramatic. Shame there aren't any prices listed
You tell him Yes, the price is in the book, I think it fits into my story
Another example, the player is a min/maxer who works-out what abilities he wants and has already planned his first 1000 karma. His plans are to awaken once he reaches somewhere around the 100 mark using the prices in the book, which will give him a very powerful character.
What do you say?
You say nothing, then have him shot by 2 snipers when he reaches 99 karma, the frst to bypass his HOG
You say no, as you think that would make his character too powerful
You say no, but you might let someone with no min/max tendancies do it
You say 'fine, but we'll have to find a suitably dramatic way for it to happen'
You say yes, and let him wake-up one day with full magical potential
Feel free to make your own options up.
What do you say?
You tell him No, as it's not possible after chargen
You tell him No, even though there are listed prices for it, as it doesn't fit with your plans
You tell him that he'll be able to do it by paying for the pizza and giving sexual favours
You tell him Yes, when it's appropriately dramatic. Shame there aren't any prices listed
You tell him Yes, the price is in the book, I think it fits into my story
Another example, the player is a min/maxer who works-out what abilities he wants and has already planned his first 1000 karma. His plans are to awaken once he reaches somewhere around the 100 mark using the prices in the book, which will give him a very powerful character.
What do you say?
You say nothing, then have him shot by 2 snipers when he reaches 99 karma, the frst to bypass his HOG
You say no, as you think that would make his character too powerful
You say no, but you might let someone with no min/max tendancies do it
You say 'fine, but we'll have to find a suitably dramatic way for it to happen'
You say yes, and let him wake-up one day with full magical potential
Feel free to make your own options up.
You've been running a game for a 3-4 months and the sammie has a bucketload of extra karma. He tells you that he'd like to have his character awaken.
What do you say?
You tell him Yes, when it's appropriately dramatic and can fit appropriately into the plot, and work out the appropriate limitations. (like.. no sorcery, no conjuring, no adept powers.. but able to initiate and take metamagics pertaining to astral perception, adept-style centering, and enchanting are possible, as well as bonding weapon foci)
Min-Maxer:
You say 'fine, but we'll have to find a suitably dramatic way for it to happen, when it's appropriate to the plotline.' And make it appropriately dangerous (possibility of exploding into little min-maxer pieces is always good), difficult (requiring a dragon to perform part of it sounds good), and having side affects that make it different from a normal awakening (The reverse of normal astral perception.. have to work to NOT use it -- makes background counts hellish), plus all the appropriate limitations as given to the Street Sam above.
**
Translation: Not quite Awakening. Not the massive power jump you'd get with mages and adepts, but a surprising increase in power for a Street Sam, and a lot of advancement potential with it.. masking + a few grades of initiate and all of the sudden you have someone who really can always shoot the mage first. Adept centering is devastating.. just think about what it can do coupled with 12 dice + smartlink. Even applying +2 TNs to everything while astrally perceiving (since the ability to turn it off is a lifesaver)
What do you say?
You tell him Yes, when it's appropriately dramatic and can fit appropriately into the plot, and work out the appropriate limitations. (like.. no sorcery, no conjuring, no adept powers.. but able to initiate and take metamagics pertaining to astral perception, adept-style centering, and enchanting are possible, as well as bonding weapon foci)
Min-Maxer:
You say 'fine, but we'll have to find a suitably dramatic way for it to happen, when it's appropriate to the plotline.' And make it appropriately dangerous (possibility of exploding into little min-maxer pieces is always good), difficult (requiring a dragon to perform part of it sounds good), and having side affects that make it different from a normal awakening (The reverse of normal astral perception.. have to work to NOT use it -- makes background counts hellish), plus all the appropriate limitations as given to the Street Sam above.
**
Translation: Not quite Awakening. Not the massive power jump you'd get with mages and adepts, but a surprising increase in power for a Street Sam, and a lot of advancement potential with it.. masking + a few grades of initiate and all of the sudden you have someone who really can always shoot the mage first. Adept centering is devastating.. just think about what it can do coupled with 12 dice + smartlink. Even applying +2 TNs to everything while astrally perceiving (since the ability to turn it off is a lifesaver)
If anything magic needs to be less common, and more "spooky" and regulated.
| QUOTE |
| You tell him No, as it's not possible after chargen |
"Why didn't you make a mage in the first place? Would you like to make one now?"
If though I had a campaign that had been going on for a ling time, then anything is possible - I'd just house rule it. I wouldn't want to see anything official on the subject.
| QUOTE |
| If anything magic needs to be less common, and more "spooky" and regulated. |
Not much less common, but yeah, so that every corp from aaa to z doesn't have mages, elemetals, wards and such on watch at all times. I don't have aproblem with a runner group having more than one awakened char - after all they are the PC's and the main character of your story.
| QUOTE (Bandwidthoracle) |
| If anything magic needs to be less common, and more "spooky" and regulated. |
I don't like how rare some people make magic in shadowrun games. It's shadowrun. A dragon was president (albeit briefly).
In one game I played, the GM enforced it being really low-magic. Only one player was allowed to be magically able, and we did't even meet one enemy mage though the course of the game.
What happened? The mage was practically untouchable. With no astral barriers, she could project anywhere. With no enemy mages, nobody had spell protection or similar. I'd almost consider having magic more common as a form of balancing to prevent this from happening.
@Dawnshadow: What should make this any different from a normal awakening? Why should they be limited so, and have to fight their way up to any semblance of power, when anybody else who initiated up-to the mili-second before play started gets magic 6, astral perception, and lots of spell points (or full adept powers)? Why not just make it cost a drekload of karma? (Or have 'lesser magic-users' in the world, that players may start as if they wish, and say that any full mage has learned their way from that same point)
| QUOTE (Eldritch) |
| If though I had a campaign that had been going on for a ling time, then anything is possible - I'd just house rule it. I wouldn't want to see anything official on the subject. |
Why should they not include rules for it? To prevent people from planning awakening (as the min-maxer in my example)?
Would people prefer a set of rules which made it specifically worse to min/max from mundane to awakened rather than starting awakened and gettin gother abilities later?
What about the concept of a game where everybody starts-out mundane but awakening is noted as an option later?
Lilt:
I wouldn't allow them to become adepts or magicians of any sort, because, first off.. I don't like the thought of people suddenly becoming fully awakened just because they threw a buttload of Karma at it after creation.
Secondly.. it's a power jump at an EXTRAORDINARY level to go from competant street sam to competant street sam and "starting" magician, shaman or adept. Even taking into account magic loss from cyberware, or having it give a single magic point, regardless of current essence and bio index.
What doing it my way permits is an increase in power.. moderately potent, with character development. Nothing says that after another few hundred Karma and an appropriate roleplay development -- for instance, befriending a mage group and studying with them, learning sorcery, initiation and so on -- the character couldn't initiate and gain 'sorcery' instead of a metamagic. They wouldn't get any spell points though. They'd have to learn the sorcery skill, and spend karma learning spells. I'd also allow things like the limitted astral projection metamagic.. and then after that, allow them to buy full astral projection.
Basically, they're doing it after character generation, so they're going to have to spend a ton or two of karma and time to become a true mage/shaman.
I really don't know if I'd allow them to become an actual adept though. Probably not, to be honest -- reasoning being, I think the nature of an adept is more internal, and any awakening post char-gen would HAVE to be forced in some way shape or form.. so external. Mages, shamans.. both of those are both internal and external, so could be developed eventually, with time and dedication. Adepts are internal only.. they don't interact with magic on the external side -- so no way to forceable become one.
I wouldn't allow them to become adepts or magicians of any sort, because, first off.. I don't like the thought of people suddenly becoming fully awakened just because they threw a buttload of Karma at it after creation.
Secondly.. it's a power jump at an EXTRAORDINARY level to go from competant street sam to competant street sam and "starting" magician, shaman or adept. Even taking into account magic loss from cyberware, or having it give a single magic point, regardless of current essence and bio index.
What doing it my way permits is an increase in power.. moderately potent, with character development. Nothing says that after another few hundred Karma and an appropriate roleplay development -- for instance, befriending a mage group and studying with them, learning sorcery, initiation and so on -- the character couldn't initiate and gain 'sorcery' instead of a metamagic. They wouldn't get any spell points though. They'd have to learn the sorcery skill, and spend karma learning spells. I'd also allow things like the limitted astral projection metamagic.. and then after that, allow them to buy full astral projection.
Basically, they're doing it after character generation, so they're going to have to spend a ton or two of karma and time to become a true mage/shaman.
I really don't know if I'd allow them to become an actual adept though. Probably not, to be honest -- reasoning being, I think the nature of an adept is more internal, and any awakening post char-gen would HAVE to be forced in some way shape or form.. so external. Mages, shamans.. both of those are both internal and external, so could be developed eventually, with time and dedication. Adepts are internal only.. they don't interact with magic on the external side -- so no way to forceable become one.
A mage can, after character generation, have lots of cyber installed and go part street-sam. If you can reach exactly the same character, exactly the same attributes and skills, then how is it broken to allow it one way and not the other?
Well I think we sortof agree that it should be possible to eventually reach the same sort-of character, what I disagree with is how it should be done. 'Initiations', clawing-up the magic ladder rung-by-rung, is unlike any other characters do it. At-least it's not how it's described as working. Spontaniously summoning a spirit, casting a spell, astrally percieving or projecting are, I think, probably the most common descriptions of people's first manifestations of magical powers. Whilst I agree that it will take time to learn, I think that what we need are modifiers to show that they haven't learnt yet rather than inventing rituals and rites for them to go through.
IE: Congratulations, you just awakened, but if you ever astrally percieve then you're on a 4 point penalty to any actions until you learn to use it properly. You can default to Willpower for sorcery and conjuring, but you can't use spell defense or anything like that until you learn the relevant skills. Perhaps you manifested 1 spell or summoned 1 spirit? Good luck doing anything else until you seriously experiment or enroll and spend a term at a school for the awakened or get a magical tutor.
Now I can see that as a process that everybody who initiates must go through, but not a system that forbids them from essentially being mages. That is to say, not unless lesser forms of awakened character types are created and preferably offered as character options at character generation (IE: Magic C might be only partially awakened without proper training).
I'm just going for consitency here. Regardless of what it costs or should cost, two otherwise identical characters should be able to reach the same skills even though one may have taken Resources A and the other took Magic A at character generation. I suppose that gives you a sortof benchmark to see how much karma it shoudl take... Once the mage has the same worth of equipment as the sammie, the sammie should have had time to accrue and spend karma to attain the same magical potential as the full mage. Seem fair?
Well I think we sortof agree that it should be possible to eventually reach the same sort-of character, what I disagree with is how it should be done. 'Initiations', clawing-up the magic ladder rung-by-rung, is unlike any other characters do it. At-least it's not how it's described as working. Spontaniously summoning a spirit, casting a spell, astrally percieving or projecting are, I think, probably the most common descriptions of people's first manifestations of magical powers. Whilst I agree that it will take time to learn, I think that what we need are modifiers to show that they haven't learnt yet rather than inventing rituals and rites for them to go through.
IE: Congratulations, you just awakened, but if you ever astrally percieve then you're on a 4 point penalty to any actions until you learn to use it properly. You can default to Willpower for sorcery and conjuring, but you can't use spell defense or anything like that until you learn the relevant skills. Perhaps you manifested 1 spell or summoned 1 spirit? Good luck doing anything else until you seriously experiment or enroll and spend a term at a school for the awakened or get a magical tutor.
Now I can see that as a process that everybody who initiates must go through, but not a system that forbids them from essentially being mages. That is to say, not unless lesser forms of awakened character types are created and preferably offered as character options at character generation (IE: Magic C might be only partially awakened without proper training).
I'm just going for consitency here. Regardless of what it costs or should cost, two otherwise identical characters should be able to reach the same skills even though one may have taken Resources A and the other took Magic A at character generation. I suppose that gives you a sortof benchmark to see how much karma it shoudl take... Once the mage has the same worth of equipment as the sammie, the sammie should have had time to accrue and spend karma to attain the same magical potential as the full mage. Seem fair?
Seems fair (although the devil is in the details), but there's more at issue than just fairness. In particular, this needs to be handled carefully to avoid the perception that magic is common and easy to get. If the fiction says "it's hard", and the rules say "it's easy", players are going to look at the rules and do it because it's easy, and then it will feel easy to them.
So while I am supportive of enabling the possibility of late awakenings, I think that the up-front costs should be large in order to discourage too many people from awakening. It's not just another career choice that you take when you're tired of your other options, according to SR fiction, and to maintain the fiction the rules have to make it easiest to take magic at the beginning.
(Note, for example, that it's easier to create a powerful starting street sam than a powerful starting mage, but if they both end up at the same place, then the mage has had to take the harder/more dangerous path to get there, which is really counterintuitive and not the kind of message you want to send your players to keep in tune with SR mythology.)
So while I am supportive of enabling the possibility of late awakenings, I think that the up-front costs should be large in order to discourage too many people from awakening. It's not just another career choice that you take when you're tired of your other options, according to SR fiction, and to maintain the fiction the rules have to make it easiest to take magic at the beginning.
(Note, for example, that it's easier to create a powerful starting street sam than a powerful starting mage, but if they both end up at the same place, then the mage has had to take the harder/more dangerous path to get there, which is really counterintuitive and not the kind of message you want to send your players to keep in tune with SR mythology.)
I do like the idea of a samy, integrating a whole new world, since he is able to perceive and astrally project ... lot of roleplay possible...
BUT : hey samy, want to throw a spell ? Just initiate a bit more ... Your talent is yet to much deep enclosed under your cyberware.
(increase your magic so it overcome essence loss penalty) ...
That way it is fairly balanced ...
BUT : hey samy, want to throw a spell ? Just initiate a bit more ... Your talent is yet to much deep enclosed under your cyberware.
(increase your magic so it overcome essence loss penalty) ...
That way it is fairly balanced ...
I play teenagers first learning how to use their magical abilities when I want that kind of roleplaying experience. The "chrome god learns magic" doesn't really fit the SR world very well.
Yes ... I doesn't fit very well in that world. I think it still can't be interesting to play. Since it is balanced and not incentive to power player.
(in my example the player of the samy will need to put the karma for ... 6 initiation to get a modified magic rating of 1, except if the magic score was existing for this character at the creation).
Off course I think using magic worth more than that so the ability to be magicien or adept should be bought in karma as well.
(in my example the player of the samy will need to put the karma for ... 6 initiation to get a modified magic rating of 1, except if the magic score was existing for this character at the creation).
Off course I think using magic worth more than that so the ability to be magicien or adept should be bought in karma as well.
| QUOTE (Ellery @ Apr 20 2005, 05:29 PM) |
| Note, for example, that it's easier to create a powerful starting street sam than a powerful starting mage, but if they both end up at the same place, then the mage has had to take the harder/more dangerous path to get there, which is really counterintuitive and not the kind of message you want to send your players to keep in tune with SR mythology. |
This is a good point. For example, the Sammy doesn't have to amass the huge amount of cash at once that he uses at chargen, and doesn't have to pay Street Index or any of the Surgery costs involved for implantation. The same can't be said for the Mage that wants to aquire a few implants after the game starts.
Yes ... the Sammy has to amass a hudge amount of karam instead of money
| QUOTE (Taki) |
| Yes ... the Sammy has to amass a hudge amount of karam instead of money |
That only addresses part of the inequity, and only if you assume that it would cost an immense amount of Karma.
There are no risks of death or mysterious cyber (unless included in the initial concept) involved for the Sammy when getting implants at chargen. There are no markups in price. No screwing around in an attempt to find an appropriate clinic.
Personally, I think if the player wants to play an Awakened character, then he should create one at chargen. If he wants that character to awaken during the game, that's fine, but the initial costs should be paid prior to the game.
I think that there are some assumptions being made here that aren't nessecarily true about SR4:
Assumption: That mages will be initially weak as they had to spend a lot on being a mage
Possibilities: All Mages will start-off with a magic attribute of 1 under SR4 rules. This may mean that magic is cheaper, unless magic 1 gets you more than it did under SR3
Assumption: Sammies all still sport 1M
pricetags on their purdy, chrome, butts
Possibilities: Who knows what the chargen is really going to be like? Is it not possible that they're, *horror*, making starting characters less powerful and removing the 1M option? Another (possibly more likely) change is that they may need to spend Street Index at chargen, or that street index will be phased-out in favour of some things just costing more.
That still, in-theory, runs the risk of mysterious cyberware. Then-again the mage can, if he affords some OK resources, buy some of the cyber/bio to start-off with whilst I don't think there's any way for the Sammie (unless low-priority mages become a possibility) to start part-mage.
Assumption: That mages will be initially weak as they had to spend a lot on being a mage
Possibilities: All Mages will start-off with a magic attribute of 1 under SR4 rules. This may mean that magic is cheaper, unless magic 1 gets you more than it did under SR3
Assumption: Sammies all still sport 1M
pricetags on their purdy, chrome, buttsPossibilities: Who knows what the chargen is really going to be like? Is it not possible that they're, *horror*, making starting characters less powerful and removing the 1M
option? Another (possibly more likely) change is that they may need to spend Street Index at chargen, or that street index will be phased-out in favour of some things just costing more.That still, in-theory, runs the risk of mysterious cyberware. Then-again the mage can, if he affords some OK resources, buy some of the cyber/bio to start-off with whilst I don't think there's any way for the Sammie (unless low-priority mages become a possibility) to start part-mage.
| QUOTE (Lilt @ Apr 20 2005, 05:04 AM) |
| That still, in-theory, runs the risk of mysterious cyberware. Then-again the mage can, if he affords some OK resources, buy some of the cyber/bio to start-off with whilst I don't think there's any way for the Sammie (unless low-priority mages become a possibility) to start part-mage. |
The old Priority system is gone (that was confirmed somewhere, i think in a thread here).
EDIT: That isn't to say that the old BP system is being used either. The creation system has been described vaguely as something that is similar in concept to the BP system.
Building a sammie with magic was possible under SR3, even with the high mage costs. You just had to go with the BP system, and con your GM up to as high a BP as possible.
The BP gave more options for cash amounts just below the million . Your groin didn't jingle like a windchime when you walked. You still has some essense left, and you didn't have the whizest 'ware. But then again you had to leave some essense anyway or burnout immediately.The main problem was that it didn't leave you with many build points for attributes and skills. You could use the min/max of Dorf to help a bit, but in the end you were squeezed for skills. All the extra BP for awakened without the ability to cast worth a hoot was a heavy load to bear, but it was possible.
I can't comment on how it'd be in SR4. As for SR3... I'd set it up something like this:
There's an ancient artifact (or a series of them), pre fifth age. It's powerful enough that even the dragons take an interest in it. If you want to go after it, feel fee, but it'll be a long journey, and you're going to fight mighty hard for each magic point. Each point costs 20 karma, plus perhaps some more up front for that first one. As you go through your quest with your group (you ain't doing this alone, chummer), they get plenty of karma, you forego at least a good chunk for your power. Plus you need to learn all the skills and spells, and you have penalties until you get practice.
As a kindness, essence holes (not essence currently taken up) will be 'healed' by the process. So if you're a sam, better start selling off that ware.
There's an ancient artifact (or a series of them), pre fifth age. It's powerful enough that even the dragons take an interest in it. If you want to go after it, feel fee, but it'll be a long journey, and you're going to fight mighty hard for each magic point. Each point costs 20 karma, plus perhaps some more up front for that first one. As you go through your quest with your group (you ain't doing this alone, chummer), they get plenty of karma, you forego at least a good chunk for your power. Plus you need to learn all the skills and spells, and you have penalties until you get practice.
As a kindness, essence holes (not essence currently taken up) will be 'healed' by the process. So if you're a sam, better start selling off that ware.
Lilt: Quite right, it is very different from other characters doing it.
My reasoning for it is this: It ISN'T the same awakening. They aren't a naturally awakened person, they're someone that had the remotest potential to awaken (90% of the world doesn't even have that) but they wouldn't awaken naturally for the next thousand years or so-- including the mana spikes from the GGD and Comet. They're in the percentile that would be the VERY last to awaken.
So.. if they awaken, they do have to claw their way up to the same power as a mage or shaman. It's not easy -- and it shouldn't be easy. Initiations, well, they're something already built into the rules. Initiating 6 times.. well, to my mind, that sort of price makes sense. They end up actually MORE powerful then a starting mage in many ways, because even with having to take sorcery, conjuring, limited projection, projection, they still have a metamagic that they can take -- and magic 6. And a high initiate grade, so if they take masking, it's really hard to pierce -- along with not having had even the possibility of geasa from implanting the cyberware.
Mages, going the other way? Well.. that's easier karma wise. But they still have the problems with money, surgery, coping with magic loss.. finding a high level clinic to minimize magic loss.
End result, if the two are trying to get to the same point.. well:
Street Sam, 1.01 essence, magic 6. 1 metamagic. Initiate grade 5
Mage1, 1.01 essence, magic 7. 1 metamagic. Initiate grade 1. 5 Geasa.
Mage2, 1.01 essence, magic 2. 1 metamagic. Initiate grade 1.
Mage1b, 1.01 essence, magic 7, 1 metamagic, Initiate grade 6 (initiations to remove Geasa)
Mage2b, 1.01 essence, magic 6, 5 metamagics, Initiate grade 5
You start to see how it works out.. the mage CAN potentially be more powerful, but most possibilities have some form of drawback that the Sam doesn't -- lots of Geasa, tiny magic.. the last 2 are more powerful, but they require the same buttload of Karma the Sam threw into awakening. Really does highlight why taking Geasa is stupid long term though, doesn't it?
My reasoning for it is this: It ISN'T the same awakening. They aren't a naturally awakened person, they're someone that had the remotest potential to awaken (90% of the world doesn't even have that) but they wouldn't awaken naturally for the next thousand years or so-- including the mana spikes from the GGD and Comet. They're in the percentile that would be the VERY last to awaken.
So.. if they awaken, they do have to claw their way up to the same power as a mage or shaman. It's not easy -- and it shouldn't be easy. Initiations, well, they're something already built into the rules. Initiating 6 times.. well, to my mind, that sort of price makes sense. They end up actually MORE powerful then a starting mage in many ways, because even with having to take sorcery, conjuring, limited projection, projection, they still have a metamagic that they can take -- and magic 6. And a high initiate grade, so if they take masking, it's really hard to pierce -- along with not having had even the possibility of geasa from implanting the cyberware.
Mages, going the other way? Well.. that's easier karma wise. But they still have the problems with money, surgery, coping with magic loss.. finding a high level clinic to minimize magic loss.
End result, if the two are trying to get to the same point.. well:
Street Sam, 1.01 essence, magic 6. 1 metamagic. Initiate grade 5
Mage1, 1.01 essence, magic 7. 1 metamagic. Initiate grade 1. 5 Geasa.
Mage2, 1.01 essence, magic 2. 1 metamagic. Initiate grade 1.
Mage1b, 1.01 essence, magic 7, 1 metamagic, Initiate grade 6 (initiations to remove Geasa)
Mage2b, 1.01 essence, magic 6, 5 metamagics, Initiate grade 5
You start to see how it works out.. the mage CAN potentially be more powerful, but most possibilities have some form of drawback that the Sam doesn't -- lots of Geasa, tiny magic.. the last 2 are more powerful, but they require the same buttload of Karma the Sam threw into awakening. Really does highlight why taking Geasa is stupid long term though, doesn't it?
As a GM I have always hated the very idea of magically active characters with high amounts of cyberware or bioware. If you want an awakened character that's also a combat monkey go with a Magicians Way adept. I have always felt that heavy cyberware should be the death of magical ability, that's why shadowrun has burned out mages, people who stuck metal in their body and paid the price for it. The idea that an experienced Street Sam, an absolute combat monster, someone who is full of wires, silicone and titanium, someone who has been shot to pieces multiple times (that's put on a deadly wound, that thing that tends to eat up a magic user's power), someone who has probably pumped themselves full of all sorts of wonderfull chemicals to get through a run (another thing that tends to eat of magic points), that character suddenly displays magical ability, even with a magic rating of one, with no geasa of any kind. I don't care how much karma it costs, that's Munchkin City.
However, I do agree that the idea of a character becoming awakened during the course of a campaign has roleplaying potential. With the new SR4 rules requiring Magic to be bought up from zero like any other attribute I personally would allow a player to start with the potential for becoming awakened, that is giving themselves a magic rating of 1 but absolutely no magical skills of any kind. Standard surgery, innoculations, etc should not strip away this point of magic (Awakenings and MitS have implied that people with magical potential don't appear to lose that potential from invasive surgery or injections until after their power expresses) But should that mundane character start inserting cyberware, at least before they express their talent and start to improve it, then the potential is lost.
I really do not want magic to become more common. I think I could live with a change to the way awakened characters are created at CharGen, I have no problem with the current system but I'm prepared to give the new system a look before I make up my mind. What I don't want is a system that allows everyone to throw in a bit of magical ability along with whatever else they decide to be. Magic is rare in Shadowrun, less than 2% of the worlds population have the potential for magic, less than that actually discover and make use of that potential. The power of magic is why magicians so often end up in corporate or government organisations opposing shadowrunners, the variety in human nature is why so many of those magic users reject the corporate or government leash, either before or after it is put on, and join the shadow community or some other shadowy organisation. The rarity of magic is why people fear it, why reactionary groups exist in shadowrun, because magic isn't common enough for people to become exposed to it in a good way and stop being afraid. That is something I really don't want to see change.
However, I do agree that the idea of a character becoming awakened during the course of a campaign has roleplaying potential. With the new SR4 rules requiring Magic to be bought up from zero like any other attribute I personally would allow a player to start with the potential for becoming awakened, that is giving themselves a magic rating of 1 but absolutely no magical skills of any kind. Standard surgery, innoculations, etc should not strip away this point of magic (Awakenings and MitS have implied that people with magical potential don't appear to lose that potential from invasive surgery or injections until after their power expresses) But should that mundane character start inserting cyberware, at least before they express their talent and start to improve it, then the potential is lost.
I really do not want magic to become more common. I think I could live with a change to the way awakened characters are created at CharGen, I have no problem with the current system but I'm prepared to give the new system a look before I make up my mind. What I don't want is a system that allows everyone to throw in a bit of magical ability along with whatever else they decide to be. Magic is rare in Shadowrun, less than 2% of the worlds population have the potential for magic, less than that actually discover and make use of that potential. The power of magic is why magicians so often end up in corporate or government organisations opposing shadowrunners, the variety in human nature is why so many of those magic users reject the corporate or government leash, either before or after it is put on, and join the shadow community or some other shadowy organisation. The rarity of magic is why people fear it, why reactionary groups exist in shadowrun, because magic isn't common enough for people to become exposed to it in a good way and stop being afraid. That is something I really don't want to see change.
I really despise the argument of "how rare magic is in SR3 Universe". In my typical game of SR there are 3 to 5 players sitting arround my table. Even if all of them where Magic Users of some sort it wouldn't change the low percentage of awakend Characters in the SR Universe as there are still Billions of mundane people arround. As for statistics, how many people do you think can afford hundrets of thousands of to go samurai?
For a Reflexbooster 1 I could live a low lifestyle for 55 Months or more than 4 and a half years without having to raise a thumb (so much for the "realism") without considering street index, OP Cost, healing, physiotherapiy, etc.
to go samurai? For a Reflexbooster 1 I could live a low lifestyle for 55 Months or more than 4 and a half years without having to raise a thumb (so much for the "realism") without considering street index, OP Cost, healing, physiotherapiy, etc.
| QUOTE (Sunshine) |
| I really despise the argument of "how rare magic is in SR3 Universe". In my typical game of SR there are 3 to 5 players sitting arround my table. Even if all of them where Magic Users of some sort it wouldn't change the low percentage of awakend Characters in the SR Universe as there are still Billions of mundane people arround. |
I didn't mean that the rarity of magic in the SR universe should translate to restrictions on becoming an awakened character. I was responding to the title of this forum "Should Shadowrun 4 make magic more common", perhaps I misinterpreted it. I didn't go quoting the SR statistics on magical ability to make a case for higher costs for magic users or some sort of restriction on how many you can have in a group. Magic users are incredibly rare but their talents are incredibly valuable so a disproportionate amount of them end up either as shadowrunners or working against shadowrunners. Therefore a team made up entirely of the awakened is not improbable.
What I don't want to see is a change in the SR universe, any sort of indication that the number of magic users in the world (NOT the number of magic users in the shadow business) has suddenly skyrocketed. The rarity of the awakened is part of their mystique and I want that to stay.
If you make magic too cheap (or free) at character creation time, it's going to seem as though magic is extremely common and easy to get, though. Because, after all, for players it is extremely easy to get. Even with the current costs of magic, it's hard to maintain the illusion of magicians being rare.
I just find it rather odd that magic is considered exceptionally rare at all in SR. 1 in 100 is hardly "Different with a capital D". Hell, I have albinism; that's a population of 1 in 17,000. There are still nearly a million of us. Compared to that, magic is closer to the number of people that need glasses today.
It's intermediate in rarity--less common than color blindness, about the same as having naturally red hair (as I recall--anyone have hard numbers?) as a Caucasian, and more common than albinism.
Should Magic in SR4 be more common? I' d say yes. But I do not think it should be cheaper for players in comparison to SR3. I mean the world should have more eerie mythical - magical elements in it on an everyday basis (Great Wyrm for President!). Sort of St. Elmos Fire in Seattle Bay on some star constellations. Having your pet kitty awaken and hiss at spirits in the astral realm (not to turn flame aura and burn your doss down). Sort of a sneaky awakening to sensitive observers.
I agree with you Hellhound, a sudden "everybody awakenes burst" wouldn't fit SR (as I play it) so it should still be "rare" on a common basis. I read into some Earthdawn Books and figured out (4th World - Mana Level on the decay; 6th World - Mana Level on the rise) that there is a lot of magic up to come into the SR universe, but not right now. It'll take like hundreds of years until the situation will be the other way around - like your somewhat disabled lacking magic ability.
(Makes for a hell lot more Editions to come...)
I agree with you Hellhound, a sudden "everybody awakenes burst" wouldn't fit SR (as I play it) so it should still be "rare" on a common basis. I read into some Earthdawn Books and figured out (4th World - Mana Level on the decay; 6th World - Mana Level on the rise) that there is a lot of magic up to come into the SR universe, but not right now. It'll take like hundreds of years until the situation will be the other way around - like your somewhat disabled lacking magic ability.
(Makes for a hell lot more Editions to come...)
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