WolfJack
Mar 16 2004, 03:21 PM
Looking great Venndigram!
Transform to HTML works like an absolute charm on my box. Very nice program and very handy.
-Wolf
Venndigram
Mar 16 2004, 03:51 PM
Thanks

There are few more little things to fix/add to the XSLT page, but it's almost completed.
Eyeless Blond
Mar 18 2004, 06:18 AM
Just a couple of details.
Okay, I looked over the Matrix handbook, and nowhere does it mention what the price for Icons is. The closest I've found is in Matrix pg. 66, upper-right corner: (emphasis mine)
QUOTE |
Note: The icons that come with customized cyberterminals are usually standard, store-bought icons at a rating of 1/2 (round down) of the MPCP. They are usually tossed in for free. |
Now, looking at the cost to actually *make* an Icon chip in programming time/materials (pg. 57), and comparing it to the Persona chips (pg. 59), it seems like Icons take *slightly* less time than a Bod/Evasion chip of the same rating, and so should cost *slightly* less. However, the MPCP/2 Icon chip is already free, so I think the best way to handle final Icon pricing in the program would be:the price of the desired Icon-rating chip, minus the price of the MPCP/2-rating Icon chip, both values of which would be equal to the price of an equal-rated Bod chip (Evasion and Masking cost more, I presume, because they're illegal.)
Small detail: Hardening doesn't have a cap on it.
As a future feature request, would it be possible to add in the stock cyberdecks as some sort of starter "package deals"? It'd also be good if there were some way to take a stock cyberdeck and start swapping newer parts in and out. The reason I'm asking is because I've got a character who boosted one off of some wage slave early in his backstory, and learned about computer hardware/software by upgrading it bit by bit (adding in new Masking and Evasion, upgrading the I/O and adding more active memory, etc.) The utilities portion of this works great, much better than the limited NSRCG, but neither of them works for what I want to do, and I don't think this is such an uncommon idea, is it?
bit_buckethead
Mar 18 2004, 07:57 PM
QUOTE |
Small detail: Hardening doesn't have a cap on it. |
Eyeless Blond is quite correct the program doesn't enforce the cap for Hardening at the MPCP rating.
See Shadowrun FAQ for details.
Shadowrun FAQ Matrix/Decking
Shockwave_IIc
Mar 20 2004, 06:28 AM
Ok first thing, how the frag do i download this?? my ability to search is none existent. And i really hate multi link things.
Also, stock cyber terminals (not decks). I'm wanting one that can run/ program rating 6+ programs on. (i really doubt a rating 7 browse is illegal), but the rules dont seem to supoort it.
Kagetenshi
Mar 20 2004, 08:01 AM
QUOTE (Shockwave_IIc) |
i really doubt a rating 7 browse is illegal |
It most certainly is, and significantly so. Browse is what you use to browse filesystems that you aren't allowed to browse.
~J
Shockwave_IIc
Mar 20 2004, 05:41 PM
By that rational virtually all the matrix programs are illegal. Nor would you need a MPCP of higher then 1. If your legally on line, why would you need a Bod or Sensor chip?
But anyway, i was asking cos i was trying to design a terminal/deck that i could program rating 6+ Operational Utillitys on.
Kagetenshi
Mar 20 2004, 06:07 PM
Yes, I would say that every single utility in the book is illegal, with the possible exception of extremely low-rated Armor or Medic.
I have no doubt, however, that there are legal programs restricted by MPCP that we don't see because they're of no use to a runner.
~J
hobgoblin
Mar 20 2004, 06:19 PM
bod is a system integrity maintainer. it tryes to grab and stop simple error so that the persona dont break down.
and sensor is there to filter traffic so that the users sensory system dont get overloaded with noise, kinda like a spam blocker. problem is that lower rating ones dont use a very fine grained filtering algorithm or something so that at times stuff that is important slip by as junk.
and yes, all the programs are more or less illegal (atleast those that isnt for maintnence and defense). and any normal user dont have to worry about detection factor or anything like that. they log in with a normal account and are allowed to do some commands without needing to roll. all this is defined in the matrix sourcebook.
mfb
Mar 20 2004, 06:51 PM
Analyze is probably perfectly legal at ratings 6 or lower. Commlink, as well; nothing illegal about making a comcall. Encrypt, Scanner,
same, as well as all of the various Link utilities.
Kagetenshi
Mar 20 2004, 06:58 PM
Encrypt is probably illegal. Encryption is illegal many places today, and I doubt things would become less restrictive.
~J
Eyeless Blond
Mar 20 2004, 07:33 PM
Actually no, encryption today is not illegal. However, *export* of certain types of government standardized encryption algorithms--such as anything over 40-bit DES, I believe--is forbidden by the government that created it. Regardless, the only reason a government has any right to do that these days is because it's their own standard and their own algorithms.
I imagine in the world of 2060 though it's a bit different. In that time information is alot more powerful than it is even now, and I suppose many things like Masking and Evasion chips would require a permit to possess, much like guns do today. The thing is, utilities like Analyze, Browse, Read/Write, I can see all those being necessary for normal everyday activities in the Matrix, so you really can't make them *illegal* or anything. Making higher-rating versions of those same programs illegal would likewise be impossible to implement; remember that outside of metagaming there is no real way to conclusively determine the rating of a program.
Other programs, however, like Spoof, Deception or Swerve, I'd imagine are illegal in any shape or form. This makes prosecuting the possession of an Analyze-like program even more pointless, since an illegal decker would already be getting hit for posessing obviously illegal programs anyway. Further, all deckers will have a Masking chip in theyr cyberdecks as well, and that one's easy to prosecute over.
Kagetenshi
Mar 20 2004, 07:46 PM
I'm not just talking about the US, you know. Encryption is restricted (IE, illegal for private individuals) in several countries, IIRC.
~J
Abstruse
Mar 20 2004, 08:13 PM
Just wanted to say this is a great tool. I've got a friend who wants to play a decker who wouldn't DREAM of buying an off-the-rack system, and I didn't want to do all the calculations because I'm lazy. One thing, is there any way you could throw in Availability ratings on the various core components? You've got them on the programs, but not on the MPCP, memory, etc.
BTW, under Misc. Components, you left out the actual cost of the Trode itself...or is there even one in the first place?
The Abstruse One
hobgoblin
Mar 21 2004, 04:10 AM
if your msp account allow you to make comcalls inside the matrix then you dont need the comcall utility, same deal with analyze as you can just be allowed to pull up diffrent numbers about the host. the utilitys just are the to fool the host into thinkign you are allowed to do it when your not. any command in the SR3 or matrix list can be done without a utility if the account your loged into allowe it (you can fool it to but the utils make that job easyer).
in many ways they work like a cross of a root kit and a worm, they contain lists of known security flaws (and maybe generic ways to force a flaw, rember that most flaws are buffer overflows today and triggering those are just a matter of stuffing the right buffer with to mutch data) and probe for them, then use those found to pull of the command the user wants to do while at the same time trying to tell the logs that this is just a generic accounting program running, nothing to worry about.
just like most os today come with some basic form for text editing and so on i think that the mpcp contain the basic tools for pulling of day to day work. its jsut when you want to bypass the virtual walls that the sysop have put around you account that you pull out the custom utils.
and for web surfing, most hosts that allow public access probably run it like a guest account with all commands off that you autolog into if you dont request access to a restricted area. think of it like walking in the front door of a shoping mall, its only when you want to access the back room that you may get into trouble.
about law enforcement, if your pulled over with a pocket full of chips and one of them light up with a analyze (or any other for that matter) util on it you will probably be looking at class D matrix unless you can produce the right paperwork.
hmm, trode prices. i dont think there is one, you can probably get them for 1-10 at most stuffer shacks. remeber that they are most likley just plastic strips with sensors on that hook into a available jack. mutch like headphones of today.
Shockwave_IIc
Mar 21 2004, 05:06 AM
Ok fair points on the programs being illegal. But if that was the case thenwhy are you allowed to buy rating 3MPCP terminals? you say Bod is an intergaty program but the only time it would get challenged is in cyber combat which would never happen because you wouldn't be triggering any IC or Sec Deckers.
And why would you need a Sensor rating? you wouldn't need to interact with anyother icons. because everything you need to do is allowed by the host.
But anyway somantics aside. I want to try this program to build a MPCP6 deck for the purpose of programing Only, nothing needed for cybercombat. anybody help? Yes i do have Matrix but i can't get my head round the construction rules which is one of the many reasons i play Otaku.
Thank you.
Eyeless Blond
Mar 21 2004, 09:45 AM
QUOTE (Shockwave_IIc) |
But anyway somantics aside. I want to try this program to build a MPCP6 deck for the purpose of programing Only, nothing needed for cybercombat. anybody help? Yes i do have Matrix but i can't get my head round the construction rules which is one of the many reasons i play Otaku. |
Why are you buying a cyberdeck for programming only? It's like buying a sports car and only using it for the radio.

If you only need to program and don't need to do any cybercombat, then you have three options:
At the lowest and cheapest level you don't need an MPCP at all; just order a regular computer. All you need at minimum is your Computer(Programming) skill and enough computer memory to do the job. See page 287-289 in SR3 for details.
Next, if you're really into coding quickly and well you can use a cyberterminal or deck with as high an MPCP as you can handle. Don't bother with Bod/Evasion/Masking/Sensor persona chips though; they're not necessary, nor is hardening or hot ASIST or any utility other than a good top-notch programming suite (preferrably with a good Self-Coding option, especially if yo're not using the optional Bug-infested rules.) Oh, and lots of active and storage/offline storage memory are good. You want SR3 pg 304 and mat p 79.
Finally if youre *really* into coding then buy/steal/rent a mainframe and get into a good programming environment. Again, page 79 for details on renting, but I have no idea where one would go about buying or building your own mainframe. Anyone know how to buy a mainframe? If not I'm sure I can whip up some house rules in a jif that any GM would go for.
In all cases you need OMCs (Optical Memory Chips) and a good encoder. Mat p 54 for pricing on those.
Abstruse
Mar 21 2004, 09:59 AM
Without Bod, there is no Persona icon. Therefore you can't actually do anything in the Matrix. Without Sensor, you can't see anything. No perception, no nothing. Bod and Sensor are needed to do ANYTHING in the Matrix. Evasion is only needed for cybercombat, and Masking only for breaking into systems. Therefore, both those chips are controlled (but legal for licensed security personel...otherwise the combat decker from such-and-such A-rated corp wouldn't be able to do crap against an intruding decker). Check out the text in the Matrix sourcebook as well as the old Virtual Realities 2.0 book for a nice little Cyberdeck and Cyberterminal Components 101.
The Abstruse One
hobgoblin
Mar 21 2004, 04:03 PM
there is some info in the back of the programming chapter of the matrix sourcebook about applications and how to calculate theyre ratings and sizes. most fall in the 1-4 rating area with a multiplyer of 1-2...
i have had my fair share of interaction with software like netbus and similar, but the reason for that is that im a computer entusiast (or geek if you will). but if you asked most of the users on the net they would not know what those programs was used for. the problem realy is that like any other shadowrun book you get a kinda tilted look on the world, basicly your looking at the world from the shadows, not from the corporate protectorates that most do. therefor its easy to forget that what seems to be normal is realy abnormal or illegal.
oh,m and about buying a minframe host, its like calling ibm and ordering your very own big iron from them

sure it can be done but i guess they only get about 1 pr 5 years or so (wil guess). think about it, we are talking about something that have anything within it hotswapable, 2-3 separate power lines at times and on and on. its not mobile in any sense of the word without stripping it down to parts, putting them into a big truck and rebuilding it at the other site.
Shockwave_IIc
Mar 21 2004, 07:26 PM
QUOTE (Eyeless Blond) |
At the lowest and cheapest level you don't need an MPCP at all; just order a regular computer. All you need at minimum is your Computer(Programming) skill and enough computer memory to do the job. See page 287-289 in SR3 for details. |
Ok Programming would be it's primary use, secondary would be net searching, Hacking would not be factoring. And as for needing an MPCP rating, if im wanting a Rating 6 programming suite im needing a 'Puter with a MPCP 6 to run, according to the rules.
Unless i can just go with a Sony Abacus or an Allegiance Simga and just up the Active/ Storage if MPCP is actually mattering. But then if it doesn't matter for one, then why does it matter for others....
Eyeless Blond
Mar 22 2004, 08:16 AM
QUOTE (Shockwave_IIc) |
Ok Programming would be it's primary use, secondary would be net searching, Hacking would not be factoring. And as for needing an MPCP rating, if im wanting a Rating 6 programming suite im needing a 'Puter with a MPCP 6 to run, according to the rules.
Unless i can just go with a Sony Abacus or an Allegiance Simga and just up the Active/ Storage if MPCP is actually mattering. But then if it doesn't matter for one, then why does it matter for others.... |
Ah, well of course if you want a programming suite you need an MPCP equal to the suite's Rating. The regular 'puter only works for the equivalent of someone coding in Notepad and compilinng using free GNU utilities today. A suite requires you to jack in to use properly anyway, which means some level of DNI, which means an MPCP. For this purpose alone, if I were GM I'd rule that you don't really need an Icon or any Persona chips other than MPCP, which I see mostly as the simsense processor for a terminal/deck and necessary even when not generating a Matrix Icon. The other Persona chips are only necessary if you ever plan on going beyond your own terminal/deck
If you want to browse the Matrix as well then you need all the trappings of a Matrix-capable Icon. This means you need at the very minimum Persona chips for Bod and Sensor (as well as an Icon chip, but those usually get glossed over.) Without Bod you'd probably get booted and experience dump shock from even a single corrupted packet. Corrupted packets or connection hiccups and the like happen all the time and are simply routine in a dialup world--imagine how much more often it would happen in such a high-definition high-datarate world as SR! Without Sensor to sift through all the data and report to you what's important you wouldn't be able to actually interpret anything you got through your connection and probably be overwhelmed by the whole thing.
Essentially what you need is a cyberterminal with an MPCP of 6 (or higher). See pg 56 in Matric for required components.
Venndigram
Apr 2 2004, 07:30 PM
My understanding is that if you want to use the generic Icon of the MPCP (either a standard UMS or the one you get with the MPCP when you buy it) you should specify a rating 0 Icon. If you want something of your own (order a custom icon), you should specify the Icon rating you want.
Venndigram
Apr 3 2004, 06:51 PM
ccoc 1.31 Release1) Finished the XSLT page.
2) Minor fixes to the XSLT-dialog
3) New "Open Old" option to load old xml files
Dowload
here
Venndigram
Apr 3 2004, 06:52 PM
.......
Venndigram
Apr 19 2004, 07:59 PM
ccoc 1.4 ReleasedNow you can see Task Descriptions for Cyberterminal Construction and Programming; The program calculates Tgts and Dice numbers. Really, worth a glance !

Download
here
Berzerker
Apr 19 2004, 09:47 PM
As far as what exactly is legal as far as matrix hardware, in the Matrix sourcebook on page 167 the charts give several low end cyberterminals. They have an MPCP between 1 and 3 and a bod/sensor rating. The legality code = legal.
Venndigram
May 3 2004, 10:07 PM
ccoc 1.5 ReleasedFixes to the Tasks engine.
http://ccoc.sf.net/
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please
click here.