Full Version: The strength one life
yeah my current Missions character has Str/Bod 1, it's rough, and 20 karma never seemed so far away. Usually I just stay in the middle and do the talking and try not to upset those larger than me. FFBA is all I have plus a Ruger superwarhawk. Not the best, but your people skills stay sharp, always good to make friends with the Troll.
QUOTE (sgtbarnes_ky @ Dec 8 2010, 11:28 PM) 
Not the best, but your people skills stay sharp, always good to make friends with the Troll.
Armor is not limited by your body, but by your ability to keep the troll between yourself and those wishing to injure you.
Sounds like something that should be in The Art of War.
the best is a troll with Cha 1 and Uncuth as a flaw. Hey, someones got a new BFF, now stand there and look mean 
QUOTE (sgtbarnes_ky @ Dec 9 2010, 12:54 PM)
the best is a troll with Cha 1 and Uncuth as a flaw. Hey, someones got a new BFF, now stand there and look mean
I don't think you realise how crippling Uncouth is as a Negative Quality.
QUOTE (toturi @ Dec 9 2010, 08:04 PM)
I don't think you realise how crippling Uncouth is as a Negative Quality.
just as bad a s Cha 1 and no social skills. (so defaulting -1 and you got no dice..you just cant pull of being soccialy acceptable)
Such characters have to tatoo " 'scuse me " on his right hand/fist and "sorry" on the other. The only 2 ways to communicate your social 'graces' is by pummeling people and doing the whole chubakka growl thing
, because you simply cant pull anything else of. (not counting edge of course)
Uncouth can be even worse than that. An Uncouth character cannot even default for social skills, since he/she/it is "unaware" with social skills (and such skills cost double even at character creation). That means such a character couldn't even do a Long Shot test.
Further, the Uncouth quality says, "The gamemaster may require the character to make Success Tests for social situations that normal people would have no problems with." (SR4A, p. 96) That's an important balancing factor that I too often forget as a GM. (Of course, running a Mission at a con, who has time to enforce all the negative qualities for everyone at the table?) An Uncouth character is not exactly going to be a face, so every time that character is present in a social situation (even if trying to keep quiet) is an opportunity for failure.
Further, the Uncouth quality says, "The gamemaster may require the character to make Success Tests for social situations that normal people would have no problems with." (SR4A, p. 96) That's an important balancing factor that I too often forget as a GM. (Of course, running a Mission at a con, who has time to enforce all the negative qualities for everyone at the table?) An Uncouth character is not exactly going to be a face, so every time that character is present in a social situation (even if trying to keep quiet) is an opportunity for failure.
QUOTE (Glyph @ Dec 5 2010, 12:48 AM)
One thing to keep in mind about character Attributes is that they are a picture of the character at one moment in time. So his Willpower might be low because he recently got rescued from a cult, or his Strength might be low because he's trying to rehab after a lengthy illness. I avoid lopsided Attribute/skill combos (such as Strength: 1 and unarmed combat: 6), but that's only my personal aesthetics. There are certainly lots of ways to justify low stats.
That's how I work around the BP cap on attributes to make a character with a background I want that isn't doable within that limit. He was this then something happened that prevented him from maintaining those higher levels.
--
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Dec 5 2010, 01:03 PM)
Actually, it is 160 Points... 8 Stats with +2 to each Stat x10bp... 8*2*10 = 160 BP
Nitpick Over...
Nitpick Over...
You neglected Edge.
--
QUOTE (Karoline @ Dec 7 2010, 01:51 AM)
I will admit that the defaulting penalty is something to think about when giving the descriptor crippled to the 1 stat though, making it somewhat less arbitrary, but I also have this to say: Look, it's a built in punishment for people with a 1 stat. They can no longer default on any skill linked to that stat. Does there really need to be any further punishment beyond the loss of defaulting and the disadvantages that already come with having a stat so low? Not to mention how little it will contribute if the person actually does have the skill?
The rules do not state that having a 1 attribute prevents you from defaulting on the check. You can still make the check and you can still default. You will just automatically fail since your dice pool is 0 unless you spend a point of Edge to long shot or you have modifiers that give you a dice pool.
QUOTE (StealthSigma @ Dec 9 2010, 03:51 PM)
You neglected Edge.
Edge isn't really something average people have. NPCs that still get average attributes only get (low) Group Edge.
QUOTE (sunnyside @ Dec 3 2010, 10:42 PM)
It seems to be every so popular a dump stat these days, as it doesn't show up in tests made all that commonly.
However it's pretty weak. And in principle limits you drastically before tests and penalites ensue.
So I figured I'd look up some weights and share.
grenade - about a half kilo
pistol -little over a kilo
AK-47, loaded - just under five kilos (but if you add an underbarrel grenade launcher or much for accessories it'll be over 5)
Barret M82 sniper rifle - nearly 15kg all on its own!
Basic clothing, pocket contents, and shoes - 1-2 Kg (or more, if those boots are horrershow)
Modern lighter armored vest (guestimate for form fitting body armor half suit) 3+kg
modern armed jacket (yeah they sell those now) 3+ kg
Obviously a str1 character will have to pick their gear carefully.
But what do you think about things like doing a chin up and that sort of thing? I figure the climbing rules apply when you can get your feet involved, but what about when you can't so much? I figure that applies beyond strength one. For example a strength 3 but bod9 orc with some gear. Actually would you modify climbing tests by just the standard -1 for going over the weight limit?
Any other actions people might take for granted that these physically challenged individuals might need to be concerned about?
However it's pretty weak. And in principle limits you drastically before tests and penalites ensue.
So I figured I'd look up some weights and share.
grenade - about a half kilo
pistol -little over a kilo
AK-47, loaded - just under five kilos (but if you add an underbarrel grenade launcher or much for accessories it'll be over 5)
Barret M82 sniper rifle - nearly 15kg all on its own!
Basic clothing, pocket contents, and shoes - 1-2 Kg (or more, if those boots are horrershow)
Modern lighter armored vest (guestimate for form fitting body armor half suit) 3+kg
modern armed jacket (yeah they sell those now) 3+ kg
Obviously a str1 character will have to pick their gear carefully.
But what do you think about things like doing a chin up and that sort of thing? I figure the climbing rules apply when you can get your feet involved, but what about when you can't so much? I figure that applies beyond strength one. For example a strength 3 but bod9 orc with some gear. Actually would you modify climbing tests by just the standard -1 for going over the weight limit?
Any other actions people might take for granted that these physically challenged individuals might need to be concerned about?
Strength 1 hurts you most when you need to climb or run. That's about that...
Honestly the rules would be more balanced if armor encumbrance was based on Strength rather than Body, but that would make most characters a lot weaker.
QUOTE (Neurosis @ Dec 9 2010, 10:15 AM)
Strength 1 hurts you most when you need to climb or run. That's about that...
Honestly the rules would be more balanced if armor encumbrance was based on Strength rather than Body, but that would make most characters a lot weaker.
Honestly the rules would be more balanced if armor encumbrance was based on Strength rather than Body, but that would make most characters a lot weaker.
And then body would become a dump stat as it is inferior to armor for resisting damage and isn't used for any skills.
Still has some slight uses, but then it becomes very much like strength. It has uses, but not very often.
Body is used directly to resist all forms of damage, though? Used to stand up after knockdown? Used to avoid paralysis after a bad electrical shock? Used to heal damage over time? Used to resist poisons, pathogens, toxins?
Yes, if you gave encumbrance control to Strength, Strength would get stronger and Body would get weaker. But they'd be CLOSER to balanced than they are now.
Yes, if you gave encumbrance control to Strength, Strength would get stronger and Body would get weaker. But they'd be CLOSER to balanced than they are now.
Body also determines your physical track.
Body will never be a dump stat.
Body will never be a dump stat.
QUOTE (Neurosis @ Dec 9 2010, 10:29 AM)
Body is used directly to resist all forms of damage, though? Used to stand up after knockdown? Used to avoid paralysis after a bad electrical shock? Used to heal damage over time? Used to resist poisons, pathogens, toxins?
Yes, if you gave encumbrance control to Strength, Strength would get stronger and Body would get weaker. But they'd be CLOSER to balanced than they are now.
Yes, if you gave encumbrance control to Strength, Strength would get stronger and Body would get weaker. But they'd be CLOSER to balanced than they are now.
Yes, but 2 points of armor is better than 1 point of body for doing damage. Much like encumbrance, knockdown seems to often not be used. Electric attacks are somewhat rare, and insulated armor is exceedingly cheap. Healing damage is what a medkit is for, and time isn't generally that big of an issue for healing damage after a run. Poisons and such are also fairly rare, and there is cheap medicine that generally gives +6 to those resistances, not to mention magic that can get rid of them.
And body as your physical track is like strength as your damage. 1 extra box for every 2 points put into the stat generally isn't viewed as worth it. You're not likely to cry that much about missing a single box because you have body 1 instead of body 3.
On the side of strength you have encumbrance, you have melee damage, you have a handful of skills, you have recoil compensation, you have grappling, you have ability to get teammates quickly out of the way. Sure, I admit it's not quite as important as body, but hey, that's true in real life too. It is far more important to be healthy than it is to be strong.
Like I said, there are already mechanical disadvantages to having a strength of 1, why do so many people feel the need to tack on more because of how they feel about the stat?
QUOTE (StealthSigma @ Dec 9 2010, 06:51 AM)
You neglected Edge.
--
--
Edge is not a Standard Attribute, so it is not in the Cap for Attributes. It is a Special Attribute and has rules all its own for character creation...
Just sayin'
I was honestly surprised that no one else simply puts the stats on a bell curve. It works amazingly well for SR.
Put 3 in the middle. 68% of people then have a Strength of 2-4. Another 14(or so)% have a Strength of 1-2. Only 2% or so have a Str of 0-1. Likewise 14% have a score of 4-5. Only a rare 2% have the 5-6 range. The exceptional attribute is just that, exceedingly rare. It actually fits what would be the expectation pretty well.
It also accounts, somewhat, for the variance of a single number in the stat spectrum. A 1 str is the same str 13 other people of a group of 100 will probably have.
This fits what would be expected. I know people who have trouble doing a pull-up. They are NOT getting over that fence in the backyard without help (also no ranks in climb). But they have no trouble in day to day affairs. 50lb bag of rice = shopping cart. Lots and lots of stuff = multiple trips from the car.
1 is weak. With modern technology alone, weak isn't that big a deal. SR tech can make it even less so. That said, when the situation does come up where Str is required, it is often vitally important.
Put 3 in the middle. 68% of people then have a Strength of 2-4. Another 14(or so)% have a Strength of 1-2. Only 2% or so have a Str of 0-1. Likewise 14% have a score of 4-5. Only a rare 2% have the 5-6 range. The exceptional attribute is just that, exceedingly rare. It actually fits what would be the expectation pretty well.
It also accounts, somewhat, for the variance of a single number in the stat spectrum. A 1 str is the same str 13 other people of a group of 100 will probably have.
This fits what would be expected. I know people who have trouble doing a pull-up. They are NOT getting over that fence in the backyard without help (also no ranks in climb). But they have no trouble in day to day affairs. 50lb bag of rice = shopping cart. Lots and lots of stuff = multiple trips from the car.
1 is weak. With modern technology alone, weak isn't that big a deal. SR tech can make it even less so. That said, when the situation does come up where Str is required, it is often vitally important.
Are we up to 50lbs bags of rice now? My supermarket only goes to 1kg (=2.2lbs) bags, and I think most supermarkets do. 5kg bags are about the limit. Consumer stores here sell very few products weighing over 5kg individually. And with a shopping cart, only individual weight matters. I think the big exception is a crate of beer, which is about 12kg I think.
QUOTE (Ascalaphus @ Dec 10 2010, 06:02 AM)
Are we up to 50lbs bags of rice now? My supermarket only goes to 1kg (=2.2lbs) bags, and I think most supermarkets do. 5kg bags are about the limit. Consumer stores here sell very few products weighing over 5kg individually. And with a shopping cart, only individual weight matters. I think the big exception is a crate of beer, which is about 12kg I think.
That's so that you can work off all the calories you're going to gain from drinking all of them I think.
As for the rice, yeah, I've never seen anything even remotely approaching a 50lb bag of rice. You might be able to get close to that weight with potatoes, but that's about it.
It's the glass bottles, it's only around 8kg of actual beer.
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Dec 9 2010, 07:11 PM)
Edge is not a Standard Attribute, so it is not in the Cap for Attributes. It is a Special Attribute and has rules all its own for character creation...
Just sayin'
Just sayin'
However Karoline said all attributes. Thus I included Edge in the interpretation since that is an attribute ALL characters have.
Not all people have Edge. Nameless NPCs only get an approximation of Edge in the form of Professional Rating. So unlike normal Attributes, you don't have to buy Edge to be equal to baseline schmucks.
QUOTE (Ascalaphus @ Dec 10 2010, 05:02 AM)
Are we up to 50lbs bags of rice now? My supermarket only goes to 1kg (=2.2lbs) bags, and I think most supermarkets do. 5kg bags are about the limit. Consumer stores here sell very few products weighing over 5kg individually. And with a shopping cart, only individual weight matters. I think the big exception is a crate of beer, which is about 12kg I think.
I see bags of rice that are 20lbs each at a couple places, but no 50's.
QUOTE (Ascalaphus @ Dec 10 2010, 07:45 AM)
Not all people have Edge. Nameless NPCs only get an approximation of Edge in the form of Professional Rating. So unlike normal Attributes, you don't have to buy Edge to be equal to baseline schmucks.
It's true. Us runners are lucky baseline shmucks.
I get 25's and 50's at the Asian market near my house, or at the Costco.
Costco also has the big flatcarts for carrying that kind of weight. And dudes with forklifts.
A 50lb weight that most people would handle regularly would be a box of printer paper.
Costco also has the big flatcarts for carrying that kind of weight. And dudes with forklifts.
A 50lb weight that most people would handle regularly would be a box of printer paper.
QUOTE (Doc Chase @ Dec 10 2010, 09:26 AM)
A 50lb weight that most people would handle regularly would be a box of printer paper.
Would that be a ten ream box?
QUOTE (StealthSigma @ Dec 10 2010, 02:38 PM)
Would that be a ten ream box?
Possibly. I'll check the boxes we're using and see what the size is and weight, then I can revise my statement as necessary.
Edit: 5000 sheets is 20 pounds, so figure 12,500 sheets of paper would be 50lb. I'll typically restock the floor with 30,000 sheets so I don't have to go back into S&R for a week or two. I notice that folks here at work don't like hauling paper, but they do like hauling cases of beer.
QUOTE (Karoline @ Dec 10 2010, 06:47 AM)
As for the rice, yeah, I've never seen anything even remotely approaching a 50lb bag of rice.
Let me guess, you don't shop at places with names like "Kam Man Marketplace".
~J
QUOTE (StealthSigma @ Dec 10 2010, 08:41 AM)
However Karoline said all attributes. Thus I included Edge in the interpretation since that is an attribute ALL characters have.
Yeah, he is right though, I was thinking 9 basic stats for some reason... Likely because I format my character sheets to have the stats in a 3x4 format, and was thinking all 3 of the first 3 columns were basic stats, forgetting that I put init in one of those.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.