That's sexist!

I should probably revisit what I wrote, as it looks like it got misinterpreted.

2 and 3 (political stuff) aren't gamebreakers. They just annoy. SR books lately have felt like the authors are pushing their personal politics...Which is OK for novels, but bad for game boooks.

Could I give examples? No. But they've felt like it, and it does grate.

1, however, is a gamebreaker. If I presented either communists or actual fascists as a serious threat, most Americans, even SR players, would look at me like I had a few extra heads or would throw me in an insane asylum.

It seems as though SR books lately aren't operating merely from a different POV (like earlier books did), but a different universe altogether.

I mean, it used to be that you could take for granted that books were written from a North American perspective, with the implicit knowledge therein.

Lately, books have felt like they're written from Berlin or Munich. While that might be nice for Europeans, I can't identify with it. I can't even turn that sort of a viewpoint into something North Americans (my players) could understand.

It's why fiction hardly crosses cultures very well, folks.

There's very little point being militantly anti-fascist, methinks.

Most people grow out of such things.

The rest, well...We have jobs, they don't.

So, how 'bout them archaeologists?

Gee, hermit. I love how my comments have absolutely no legitimacy in your mind....

<sigh>

Crimson:

They're disturbing my grandpa's grave AND holding up my highway!:-)

The best-seller lists in the US and Germany.

However, Synner, you're right in a lot of ways...

Re fascism/communism: Yeah, but it still feels very remote. Mostly that's because America doesn't have the bans Europe does. I think part of why fascism is so popular in Europe is...because it's banned. Ergo, instant teenage rebellion attractor!

It ain't banned here. It still draws out the counter-demos, but it isn't banned. It isn't seen as a threat to anybody.

Meanwhile, communism is strictly the province of dull-headed college kids here. It never did catch on.

So it...just doesn't feel relevant.

I'm not afraid of stepping on toes, actually...I just want books I can understand, and I'm not an idiot. Is that so wrong? I still think that there could have been *much* better coverage given to North American-dominated (NOT exclusively NA, but mostly NA) stuff like racial issues, nativist/anti-immigration stuff, and groups like the ACLU, Moral Majority, etc.

I'll grant that my reaction may be a backlash from what has basically been a sustained period of "Americans are evil" in the media, particularly online.

However, some of it is a distinct cultural difference. (I'm still someone who thinks SR4 should put a metric-imperial conversion table in somewhere.) The fact that that seemed to get brushed off earlier (as in "Well, yeah; Evolve, primates!" which seemed to be the vibe I was getting from Hermit) was...annoying. Finally. I always thought Captain Chaos was in Seattle...When did thi9ngs suddenly shift international? Why no foreshadowung? Why so sudden? (I don't like sudden surprises. Surprises scare me. (They usually involve clowns, who are just scary...))

(Y'know, now that these books are done, are there any others that are planning to run headlong into fire like these on the schedule, or will we be getting back to the universally-appreciated murder, mayhem, and criminality SR is known and loved for?)

(And, a side-thought: Just *how* does one become a playtester or freelancer?)

Last time I looked at the fiction book charts the Da Vinci Code topped the American and German (and French) ones, but granted that was a while ago. I hear the current flavor of the month is Paulo Coelho. Every country in Europe is showing CSI and Desperate Housewives, and I won't even get into music and film...

Also the fact that translations are involved and books are seldom released simulanteously means looking at book charts particularly useless. Overall sales indicate you are wrong at least when it comes to American fiction consumed in Germany (and in Europe in general). The opposite dynamic however I will refrain from commenting on, since it seems to be an American problem not a European one.

Captain Chaos is and remains in Seattle, but running on the global stage has been on the cards for quite a while and almost all the books since before Blood in the Boardroom have tried to gently open people's horizons in that respect. It's also part of the effort to respect a certain level of believability, after all how many shadowruns can you realistically have in Seattle at any given time.

The next few books will also inevitably touch controversial issues although neither Shadows of Asia nor Shadows of Latin America go very far beyond what we've seen in SoNA and SoE (although Tir Tairngire, Quebec, Ute, Switzerland and TNO could be seen as toeing the line). However, with SoA including the troubled Middle East, war-torn South East Asia, imperialistic Japan and a neo-fascist Russia you should expect to see some edgy stuff.

In fact if you read the Shadows of in conjunction with Loose Alliances you'll probably benefit significantly from the cross over potential and the crossed references. Reread Switzerland in light of some of the Anti-meta material in LA.. Look for the various threads involving the neo-aristos in SoE after reading LA. SoNA has multiple references to a group which in LA is revealed to be White Resistance. SoA and SoLA will feature even more links with stuff in almost all the chapters.

System Failure, in this respect similar to books such as Year of the Comet or Blood in the Boardroom, will cover a wide range of things from down and dirty shadowrunning to some pretty massive events. I'd say it won't be as controversial as Loose Alliances in terms of subjects but rather in terms of content.

After that comes SR4 and from what's been announced of the release schedule after that it's pretty much back to basics for a while which should make you happy.

Regarding becoming a freelancer I suggest doing what I did. Check the official website for the submission guidelines and pitch something that fits in one of the books in the upcoming release schedule (or pitch a whole book, that's what I did ). Granted that right now everything up to SR4 is pretty much wrapped, but there should be announcements about what to expect after Street Magic and the introductory adventure set after GenCon.

Yeah, I should note that I'm waiting on a lot of the latest books from Amazon.

Synner, you missed one of my other questions...Becoming a playtester.

I'm not a writer, but I'm good at picking something to death and back.

Edit: No, it doesn't go the other way. Stuff might be translated from English to German, but it *almost never* goes the other way. SR being a great example here.

Which is why I say cultural imperialism has thus far gone one only one way.

Until we start seeing the latest German sitcoms dubbed and translated into English, I doubt it'll change.

Cultural exchange has not been an entirely one-way street, or maybe that's American Kanji on the street racers.

Asian design, british rock, european fasions, scandinavian EBM.

my precious, precious eyes. the next poster to use red text in this forum gets stabbed. assuming i'm able to see, at that point.

Read the Eco groups after work today.

It easily could have been the lamest of the sections, but was not.

I will also have to log it as a mark against the euro-centric politics claim, so check this section out Crim. It includes the Sierra Club, a wide-base group that is funded primarily by people who likely do not recycle and pour their paint down the drains. Additionally there are not only the expected back-to-nature escapists but there are references made to the over-engineered high technophile brand of renewable dreamers, a mindset that today causes shuffling of feet and rolling of eyes when greens meet on a global level.

I have not read the GI section and will likely read it last, so I reference the in-character material here: I liked the adventure hooks mentioned throughout this section. The bulk of the shadowtalk presented suitably realistic and interesting information without resorting to "dystopian for effect" or "green equals happytime."

I would also like to commend the author for introducing only one high-power nonhuman. There are references to paranormal support for many of these causes, but (thank god) only one figure described as more than a throw-away reference is such. I had feared I would see all kind of great dragons and spirits, which would have saddened me as I play Shadowrun for the human trauma and drama, not so I can hear stories about super-cool dragons.

In summary, I enjoyed that the breadth of the green agitators were described, from the useful face orgs the characters will likely encounter from day to day to the radical warriors they might just run up against or in support of on a tactical level in a situation that will quickly escalate out of their comfort zone. I find the character of the orgs presented to be agreeable. One might say it's too western but eco-war is a luxury of the rich nations. The groups, I do not doubt, will collaborate with local anti-corpors or rebel groups when it comes to the poor countries, but the luxury to fixate simply on eco-policy instead of freedom or food I have no trouble attributing to mainly western groups.

My only real beef with any of the religous sections was that reading over all of them in one book just reminded me of the vaguely anti-Christian feel SR gives off sometimes. It seems like most of the outspokenly pagan groups do good things (or at least mean well), and like every third or fourth evil conspiracy group is tied to Christianity. From the right-winger CAS/UCAS anti-meta hate groups to the Catholic Church itself, it really kind of feels like SR's got an angry vibe goin' on against the big JC in the sky, yo.

Not that I particularly care, on a personal level (in the same way I don't care whether people like Facists or not) -- but it again bugs me (though this time clearly only based on "in characters" presentations) that the developer's personal feelings might be coloring the game world a little more than they could/should.

Critias, you make my tongue feel incompetent.

Why does everybody else express my points better than I do?

You do realize the Vigilia are a bunch of (relatively) do-gooders and the rest of the groups are actually Islamic (both of which are portrayed as having slightly darker tones)?

it's not a problem if the IC stuff is anti-whatever. it's a problem when the IC stuff is consistently anti-whatever.

I never understood the idea of Antifa. It seems kind of hypocritical to me.

It isn't truely hypocritical, it is "reactionary". To a certain extent Antifas aren't a true political movement because they generally lack an ideology of their own and congregate simply as a reaction to fascism. Generally speaking Antifa activists (unlike other types of activism) are people who have suffered directly from fascism in one or another of its forms. Unfortunately many of them believe in fighting fire with fire and an eye for an eye.

That being said there are several RL organizations similar to International Spotlight who do very good work in putting fascist movements and regimes on the spot and in the media.

Skarn: Right, upon reading up more on them, they were propably a bit out of place in that list. Didn't know that groups like the PDLF are considered part of the PLO. I was referring to Fatah here.

Also, one thing I genuinely like about SR is that, while it's books adress a wealth of real-world issues, they steer clear of taking sides. They present christian mages and wiccans as, in essence morally equal. Sure, there's a wealth of churhc conspiracy theories. With an institution like the catholic church, there's bound to be such things. However, the pagans don't get off easy either (Britain's blood mage druids, fanatic eco terrorist witches ...). Neither do native Americans ('Behind the masks', Threats 2, and of course, the Azzies). However, with the exception of Aztlaner faith, no religion is painted as being only bad either.

If you cmplain about SR being "vaguely anti-christian", it's maybe that you miss the usually pro-christian tone in modern US fiction. That, however, doesn't make SR anti-christian.

And for the record, I see no problem in stepping on a few toes now and then, so long as these toes are demographically equally spread.

If I remember correctly, the haven't railed against Christians, but made the organized Christianity, namely the Catholic Church, and the televangelistis darker than they are in our world. Don't forget that the Sylvesters are good people and they've praised them since the Secrets of Power Trilogy.

As Crimson has brought it up, I would like to add a reference which didn't make it into the book (mea culpa) and credit is due where credit is due.

The descriptor list on fascism paraphrases and expands upon a list put together by Mr. Chip Berlet in the introduction to Russ Bellant's "Old Nazis, the New Right, and the Republican Party" (an abridged version can be found online at Publiceye.org - a relatively impartial source despite the liberal bias). I picked this one since Mr. Berlet's list is at least partially derivative and synthesizes similar descriptors detailed in the works of Umberto Ecco, Heinz Lubasz, Walter Laqueur, George Mosse, Richard Wolin and Robert Paxton (the latter two are particularly interesting for a historical perspective of both the ideological evolution of Fascism and its practical manifestations).

Okay, here's a list of evil groups, divided into Christian, Wiccan/Pagan and Native. Note: I don't have all books, and haven't read all of them again. I must have missed stuff. But so far, the score is pretty even.

1. Christian:
- New Revolution (threats 2)
- Order of the Temple (threats 2)
- True Church of God and his saints (Germany SB)**

2. Pagan/Wiccan:
- Winternight, which essentially is a coven of Norse-inspired Shamans. (threats 2)
- Blood Magic using Druids (London)
- Black Lodge (threats 2)

3. Native
- False Face Society (threats 2)
- Path of the Sun (Aztlan)*

*Aztlan SB clearly makes Catholics out to be the good underdog kind of guys.
**Germany SB was very much biased to the far left and against Christianity. It also was the biggest single pile of crap ever published by FASA.

All in all: Christianity leads Native and Pagan/Wiccan in threats only by 1, and that's due to a book that's hardly canon anyway.

Don't several of the various anti-meta policlub-style groups also have some establish Christian connection (or at least veneer of Christianity)? IIRC -- and I may not -- they've largely been presented as (naturally) just the Shadowrun version of the KKK and similar, passing off metas and magicians as perversions against God's nature, yadda yadda. While not officially affiliated with organized religion (unless by behind-the-scenes funding), even that sort of thing would still be a "Christians = Evil" sort of vibe, y'know?

I dunno. Like I said, it's quite possible I'm just having a few bits and pieces stick in my gullet about it from coloring stuff myself, kind of "looking for examples" in my memory. *shrugs* Either way, I stated my concern (IE, that game developers view their personal beleifs as a self-fulfilling prophecy, and SR's future as their chance to show they were "right" all along) and hope it's not something we've got to look forward to.

Besides, with a built up tradition as complex, convoluted, and frankly...interesting as christianity (primarily catholacism) it is just too hard to ignore the game opertunities of the various secrect societies, agendas, angle worship, etc, etc.

Yeah, but you're wandering over bits of people's identities. Some sensitivity would seem to be at least called for, if not actually applied always.

In my youth I used to know some antifas-type fellows. It is hypocritical, but when you are a young tough who wishes to rage against injustice and intolerance, what better way to do so than by beating up those that embody it? Most people grow out of the phase where they wander the bad parts of town looking for skinheads to beat up.

I'd hope, Ras.

The first broken nose is funny. The sixth is sad.

Oh, yeah. About that review I mentioned might be written.

It's never going to see the light of day.

I haven't even looked at this book for a week, nor do I have any plans to do so.