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srgsng25
ok during our gaming seccioun yesterday i was sit with this new spell one of my higher level shamans came up with it is called Trans Locate

this spell is conducted though Fetish magic per say you requiret to linked fetishes to conduct the telaport spell

the teleport rang Null in voids the LOS requirements i am actually concidering this but i want to give it some serious to deadlly drain code just to be a fragging jerk i think

the spell details are you per say drop one of two fettishes and keep on going now when the dreck hits the fan the shaman can cast the spell though his meterial link the then teleport back to the safe location where he or she droped the first half of the fettish

this information is verry raw i have looked ver the spell forumla and it look sound the player insisted he is doing this though the manipulation of eithe rthe mana plane or asteral plane so please shoot me some advice on if i should make some more restrictive rules or let this one fly and see what kind of thouble we can get the shaman into
Eyeless Blond
Teleportation is strictly forbidden in the spell creation rules. In fact it's almost one of the only things that's outright impossible by the rules. Let me see if I can find the specific rule...

(Edit) Found it: p. 47 MitS, under: Sorcery cannot alter the fabric of the space/time continuom.
srgsng25
cool hehehhe let me crush this persons hopes
BitBasher
Eyeless is right, Teleportation and Alteration of Space/Time are expressly forbidden.
Morgannah
That doesn't mean your shaman can't try to make a formula for the spell. smile.gif

Has the player been able to access a copy of MiTS to learn this rule? If he has, and hasn't remembered the cardinal rules of magic then he SHOULD have to learn the hard way.
Eyeless Blond
Player: "I cast my new Translocation spell!"

GM: "Okay, resist 6D damage."

Player: "...huh?"

GM: "Since magic can't actually warp space-time, the spell instead basically just ripped you apart at a molecular level. Consider the low Power level me going easy on you."

Player: *rolls, rerolling with a few Karma* "Ugh, okay, I take an S wound. Never trying that spell again."

GM: "Okay, now resist 8D Stun, the Drain for your Translocate spell."
BookWyrm
QUOTE (Eyeless Blond)
Player: "I cast my new Translocation spell!"

GM: "Okay, resist 6D damage."

Player: "...huh?"

GM: "Since magic can't actually warp space-time, the spell instead basically just ripped you apart at a molecular level. Consider the low Power level me going easy on you."

Player: *rolls, rerolling with a few Karma* "Ugh, okay, I take an S wound. Never trying that spell again."

GM: "Okay, now resist 8D Stun, the Drain for your Translocate spell."

Ouch.
Sahandrian
I think the closest thing to magical teleportation possible in SR would be to somehow send your body physically into the astral, get to your destination with fast astral travel, then return to the physical world...

But then you'd have to figure out how to do that...
Catsnightmare
QUOTE (Eyeless Blond)
Player: "I cast my new Translocation spell!"

GM: "Okay, resist 6D damage."

Player: "...huh?"

GM: "Since magic can't actually warp space-time, the spell instead basically just ripped you apart at a molecular level. Consider the low Power level me going easy on you."

Player: *rolls, rerolling with a few Karma* "Ugh, okay, I take an S wound. Never trying that spell again."

GM: "Okay, now resist 8D Stun, the Drain for your Translocate spell."

ROTFLMAO

Almost exactly what I would do had that happen in my group. vegm.gif
frostPDP
Well when GMming I never let the rules forbid something if a good rationale can be made.

If somehow you can take Einstein's ideas and say "I'm making a wormhole," go ahead and try. Of course, you might want to be Harlequin or another 20-th grade initiate. With a ritual casting. And a lot of Karma Pool, Power Foci, and expendables. Then you might have a shot.

It would be much more likely to use Anchoring metamagic to create a permanent gateway of some sort, but even that would be an immense undertaking - Using the laws of physics with riddiculous circumstances.

Just cuz it hasn't been discovered doesn't mean it isn't possible - But it ain't probable.
FrostyNSO
QUOTE (Sahandrian)
I think the closest thing to magical teleportation possible in SR would be to somehow send your body physically into the astral, get to your destination with fast astral travel, then return to the physical world...

But then you'd have to figure out how to do that...

I wonder if the astral gateway power of a spirit could do it?
Sharaloth
Certain characters (NPC's) in my game can 'teleport' magically. It isn't a spell, though, it's what I tend to refer to as metaplanar bounce. Just like what happens when you say a Free Spirit's True Name three times aloud, the character jumps physically to the metaplanes and then immediately (after a no-real-time astral quest) return to the physical at their destination (actually, without a magical connection to their destination, such as anything that can count as a material link to them they arrive somewhere randomly within 10 km of where they want to go). I suppose it might be possible to create a spell that would acheive a similar effect, but I see it as being something reserved for the uber-magicians from the 4th world and the lucky few they've been teaching in the 6th.
nick012000
Well, I once had an idea for a mage character, who's dream was to build what amounted to a magical Stargate. It involved binding multiple free spirits with the Wealth power (because it creates matter), and having them create a wormhole by concentrating matter, which would be telekinetically moved and compressed in the center of the ring, and elemental manipulation in used to introduce energy into the system. The result is that you have a mass will fist undergo nuclear fusion, then it will begin to undergo the sorts of subatomic reactions we see in atom smashers, and eventually you will get a black hole. Telekinesis is then used to manipulate the black hole into a form usable for travel.
Mortax
QUOTE (Eyeless Blond)
Player: "I cast my new Translocation spell!"

GM: "Okay, resist 6D damage."

Player: "...huh?"

GM: "Since magic can't actually warp space-time, the spell instead basically just ripped you apart at a molecular level. Consider the low Power level me going easy on you."

Player: *rolls, rerolling with a few Karma* "Ugh, okay, I take an S wound. Never trying that spell again."

GM: "Okay, now resist 8D Stun, the Drain for your Translocate spell."

LMAO!! That's about what should happen to most PCs if they try that. I can only think of one way they COULD succeed. Become a high level Lightbearer.

(quoting Sharaloth)
QUOTE
Certain characters (NPC's) in my game can 'teleport' magically. It isn't a spell, though, it's what I tend to refer to as metaplanar bounce.


Actually, this is close to cannon.

For those who've never played Earthdawn or don't know much about Harlequins past:

Lightbearers are basically people who fought Horrors. They had several fun abilities, like pull a magic sword from my hoop, instant uber magic armor, and teleporting. Okay, so it was't real teleporting. It was transfering themselves into the astral and moving around. Read the final confrintation between Harlequin and Ehran in the Harlequin adventure and you'll see it. Harlequin also displays the other abilities during Harlequin's back at the bridge.

As far as I know, that is the only cannon way to do it, and you'de have to get Harlequin or Ehran to teach it to you, since those are the only two Lightbearers I know of that are still around.
Mortax
QUOTE (nick012000)
Well, I once had an idea for a mage character, who's dream was to build what amounted to a magical Stargate.

I think there was a way to do that in Earthdawn, it was a nethermancer ability, I think, but I'll have to look it up.
FrostyNSO
Ok, somebody answer this for me please:

In regards to the Astral Gateway ability of free spirits: Does it create an actual "gate" that a person (appearantly even a mundane) can pass through, or is it a "spiritual" thing?

If they can physically pass through it, can they emerge at a different point?
hyzmarca
There was a Nethermancer spell that allowed a person to shift physically into the astral plane. It is fairly usefull when a group comprised mostly of adepts have to fight purely astral beings.


"OK. I've been marked by Chantrel's horror and the only person in our group with Astral Perception has just been disected to death. My very good very bestest friends who will surely be slaughtered one by one to torment me, it is time to see a Nethermancer."


Netherwalk is basicly an Adept power.



There is a post somewhere around here that proves that teleportation should be an illusion spell. In illusion that cause you to actually physicaly move to another location, but an illusion none to the less. It has the advanage of d completely ceasing to function if the target disbelieves it.
frostPDP
Of all the odd ideas, I don't ever buy that an illusion spell can create something real. At least in the sense that an illusion of being elsewhere is the same as being elsewhere.

I'd say do exactly what's been proposed - A helluva lot of experimenting (many of the guinea pigs going kaboom in the process) followed by a huge amount of cost for any sort of formula.

IF "toning it down" or "progress" is possible with time, it ain't gonna be within the 2000's - Maybe 2100's. Or 2200's.
Crimson Jack
The only problem with GMing the little spoof on resisting 6D damage for casting, then an additional 8D for drain, is that there are some players that could successfully cast the spell (even with those ridiculous drawbacks). Then what?

GM: ... umm, okay, so I guess you bamf without a hitch.

Better to simply not allow it. Regardless of the fact that it was just a joke. wink.gif
Edward
With the exception of what was mentioned earyer about a pare of immortal elves the base theories required for this have not been discovered yet.

Creating this type of effect would be as difficult as creating a fireball spell with no texts or knowledge of elemental manipulation. Remember a library rating >= force is a /requirement/ for creating a spell formula, your going to have to write the book before you can write the spell, and that is the life’s work of a research mage with several assistants.

Edward
fistandantilus4.0
The Nethermancer spell was a 10th circle spell, that had to be linked between two bone circles that the nethermancer had already created, and it's max range was 5,000 miles, with a high target number (extrd success against the thread weaving I think). There were a few other adept disciplines at high circle that could step into the astral.

In MiTS it states the teleporation and time travel are the holy grails of magical research R&D's. I allow the "jump into the astral" in my game ,although none of my players have thought of it yet (and if you're reading this, hope you have a damn high magical theory!). Basically the spell duplication version of the spirit power. I don't remember what I had the drain at though. I remember it being pretty nasty. Also, you had to have a clear target in mind. No dawdling about. And wards blocked it completely.
Eyeless Blond
QUOTE (Crimson Jack)
The only problem with GMing the little spoof on resisting 6D damage for casting, then an additional 8D for drain, is that there are some players that could successfully cast the spell (even with those ridiculous drawbacks). Then what?

GM: ... umm, okay, so I guess you bamf without a hitch.

Better to simply not allow it. Regardless of the fact that it was just a joke. wink.gif

Well no, what I was saying is that you take all that damage and also don't go anywhere! The entire Force of the spell (which of course requires a willing target) was basically funnelled into ripping you apart at a molecular level; it didn't actually *move* you anywhere at all. smile.gif
weblife
Is it even possible for the Astral Plane to support physical mass?

Your body is left behind for a reason. Its just flesh, and the astral is the place of spirits.

In order to push inert mass through the astral, how would you do this?

And even if you get physical mass into the astral space, how will that look from outside? - Everything astral is a shadow of our world. Would the mass of a person "break" the window between the planes, or maybe distort it where it passes?

I like to think it would be something alike walking on thin ice, to take a physical object into the astral.

And the reason I say object, is because if a Body can enter, then items can too.. and then you'll quickly see a new market for logistics. Tons of goods would be moved from A to B at lightning speed. eek.gif

The strain on the astral space would be severe as automated vehicles tear through it, perhaps dumping garbage even.

But if there IS a way to go into astral space, with your meat body and your gear, then the above will certainly follow. smile.gif
Herald of Verjigorm
QUOTE (weblife)
Is it even possible for the Astral Plane to support physical mass?

Alchera, see Target Awakened Lands.
weblife
I don't have that book..

Could you sum it up to a yes or no? smile.gif

Maybe even post a tiny excerpt of the text? biggrin.gif
Herald of Verjigorm
Simple form:
In yet another case of magic not doing what people expect, completely mundane objects have started showing up in the astral plane in some places. Usually, it is just some little low-tech trinkets that would be most interesting to archaeologists. In some occasions, it includes entire buildings. Depending on too many variables, the objects may materialize and possess a physical component. I think there was something about a tower that materialized in such a way for a while, but I can't remember that event well. In a few observed cases, an alchera region was bound to a spirit whose whims determined when the alchera was dominant and when the regular terrain was dominant.

Since alchera do not apparently have an intent of their own, this doesn't answer your "how would a meatbod move" question. Go to the Earthdawn examples to answer that question.
Apathy
QUOTE
Is it even possible for the Astral Plane to support physical mass?
...

And the reason I say object, is because if a Body can enter, then items can too.. and then you'll quickly see a new market for logistics. Tons of goods would be moved from A to B at lightning speed. 

The strain on the astral space would be severe as automated vehicles tear through it, perhaps dumping garbage even.

But if there IS a way to go into astral space, with your meat body and your gear, then the above will certainly follow. 


Doesn't the spirit power Astral Gateway allow this? Just imagine: a new way to dispose of nuclear waste!
Eyeless Blond
QUOTE (Apathy)
Doesn't the spirit power Astral Gateway allow this? Just imagine: a new way to dispose of nuclear waste!

Shh! Don't talk so loud; you might start another government agency! biggrin.gif
Herald of Verjigorm
No, the common astral gateway just allows people to astrally project even if they can't normally. That does not mean that there can be no spirits with an astral gateway power that takes the meat and metal along as well, but the normal form just causes astral perception and allows projection.
hyzmarca
QUOTE (frostPDP)
Of all the odd ideas, I don't ever buy that an illusion spell can create something real. At least in the sense that an illusion of being elsewhere is the same as being elsewhere.

I'd say do exactly what's been proposed - A helluva lot of experimenting (many of the guinea pigs going kaboom in the process) followed by a huge amount of cost for any sort of formula.

IF "toning it down" or "progress" is possible with time, it ain't gonna be within the 2000's - Maybe 2100's. Or 2200's.

There was a canon illusion spell in ED that did actaully teleport. It required linking two doorways or something like that. It was resisted as an illusion and could be broken by disbelief, but the effect was real.
SpasticTeapot
I seem to recall that there is a spell-create food, I think- that violates the continuity of matter. If the PC were to modify the spell to compress said food down to a black-hole level, and then use the resulting bend in space/time (which would be caused by the super-compressed wonderbread, not the actual spell), he or she could use said bend to poke a hole through space/time and, if two were connected, theoretically move from place to place. Of course, the Drain would be staggering and one would likely need two casters or a sustaining focus on the other end, and then there's still the risk of having the thing blow up in your face, leaving you in 1911 with no magic to speak of.
hyzmarca
QUOTE (SpasticTeapot @ May 25 2005, 06:20 PM)
I seem to recall that there is a spell-create food, I think- that violates the continuity of matter. If the PC were to modify the spell to compress said food down to a black-hole level, and then use the resulting bend in space/time (which would be caused by the super-compressed wonderbread, not the actual spell), he or she could use said bend to poke a hole through space/time and, if two were connected, theoretically move from place to place. Of course, the Drain would be staggering and one would likely need two casters or a sustaining focus on the other end, and then there's still the risk of having the thing blow up in your face, leaving you in 1911 with no magic to speak of.


The problem is that the space-time distortion of a black hole isn't caused by its volume, but its mass. In order to get that kind of mass out of create food the characters would need a loaf of bread large enough to crush the Earth. It would certainly be an interesting experiment for Winternight.

Also, create food doesn't violate the continity of matter any more than a nuclear bomb does. Matter and energy cannot be destroyed but they are interchangable. Mana is simply another form of energy. Remember, magic is a science.
Quix
I remember an old story about teleporting that I heard before SR3. The short version:

The party mage has a spell that he believes is a teleport spell. Because whenever he casts it he passes out and then wakes up back in one of the team's safe houses. Unbeknowst to the mage it is not really a teleportation spell, just a really nasty attack spell that fries all the 'bad guys', the mage passes out from drain, and his chummers carry his unconcious body back home.

The wonders of lying to the PC's. grinbig.gif
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