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GaiasWrath8
Ok, so if any one remebers earthdawn. They have dragon kin in the book of dragons. They got Astral sight, low light, and a +1 to Per and Wil.

So, what would a dragon kin get in Shadowrun? Any ideas, anything offical out there?
hermit
they are extinct. dragonkin had lifespans only double nof the ordinary ED elf, which means none of them made it through the 1st world. And dragons don't hump humans any more. Dot6W makes this very clear. Dragons have adopted strict rules against this. Any dragon who procreates with humans is considered a traitor and hunted down.

Guess IEs - who are derived from dragonkin - really pissed them off.
GaiasWrath8
OK, I got that most likley there are no more, but...

What about emortal elves breeding with some one and passing on dragon blood, or since we live in a really modern age, what about gean splicing a a few cells from a dragon who is in humand form with a human. Or maybe a dragon just falls in love and does the nasty with a human.

Any one has any ideas what would work for stats? I was thinking...
+1 Int, +1 Wil, Give them the ability of astral perseption and low light, and double there life.

Any thoughts?
hermit
1. Dragons don't fall in love. They are territorial, solitarily living reptiles who have no concept of love, not like humans do. Seeing another dragon immediately pisses a dragon off. They matre because a female decides she wants to lay eggs, then seeks out male dragons, fights a bit, then agrees with oen that he's a good donator, mates, then passes the eggs on to a great (whom she has to convince that her eggs are worthy for him tot ake care off), and after that, the female proceeds doing whatever dragons-y things she does.

So, no love involved. Dragons have no need to live with others, of their kind or other species, like humans do. They_'re no pack animals. they're solitary and fiercely territorial (though their intellect can help them overcome these feelings, they're always there). They don't fall in love, thus.

Also, dragons consider sex not particularily fun. Dot6W explicitly says so (and OQ pokes fun at humans making it their primary hobby).

Immortal elves procreating generates normal or more immortal elves, apparently, but no dragonkin (where would the scales be coming from then, anyway?).

And finally, dragon DNA isn't easy to come by. By far not. The last thing a dragon wants you to have is a ritual link to it. though it would propably fry you anyway, it would seriously tick the dragon off.

But, if we're talking about a somehow surviving Dragonkin (hey, kaers and stuff, maybe a pack with a horror for eternal life or being magically frozen?), I'd suggest elf mods and an additional +1 int, +1 will, dual nature, the scales SURGE effect and a hunted (6) flaw because everyone wants t gain hold of and study that poor being. And some dragons likely want it dead.
FrostyNSO
Did you read the section about Rhonawby (or however you spell it) and the Sea Dragon? It seemed R was very very enamoured with the Sea Dragon, so far as to seduce "her" through deception. It almost seemed as if R thought he might've been "in love".
hermit
Oh? That'd be a first, though. The section on dragon procreation, and other sources such as the ED dragons book, state otherwise.

I guess he wanted her as a lair mate, an ally, and an associate. Not as a lover, in the human sense, though. For all I know dragons aren't known to have an emotional makeup comparable to humans, and as their social structure is so different from ours, it wouldn't make sense if they did, anyway.
Wireknight
There are implications that Dunkelzahn, in human form, had emotional and romantic relationships with metahumans. Various sections from his will seem to indicate this.

However, that aside, there are two dragonkin in the Shadowrun universe. One is Akira Kageyama, whose name appears as the second bequeathment in the will. He is supposedly the offspring of Dunkelzahn and an artist or actress, I don't recall the specifics. The other is the triad agent named Dragon-Eyes, a magician adept with natural eyes that are solid white and yet confer normal or even enhanced sight. He initally appears in the Underworld Sourcebook as a lieutenant in the Tigers initiatory group/gang. His parentage is unknown but rumored to involve an Eastern dragon, possibly Lung or Masaru.
winterhawk11
QUOTE (FrostyNSO)
Did you read the section about Rhonawby (or however you spell it) and the Sea Dragon?  It seemed R was very very enamoured with the Sea Dragon, so far as to seduce "her" through deception.  It almost seemed as if R thought he might've been "in love".

The jury's out (and probably always will be) about whether Rhonabwy was in love with the Sea Dragon or with her *singing* (remember, he's a major music aficionado). Perhaps he thought that if he mated with her, their children would inherit her singing abilities. Seeing has how they didn't really have much time to court before he tricked her into mating with him, it's hard to believe that he had time to fall in love with her.

At least that was my take when I wrote the chapter. YMMV (and probably should, to fit with your vision of how you want your world to be).
GaiasWrath8
Very Cool info, Thanks for all the data, it has been helpful.
Mortax
QUOTE (hermit)
they are extinct. dragonkin had lifespans only double nof the ordinary ED elf, which means none of them made it through the 1st world. And dragons don't hump humans any more. Dot6W makes this very clear. Dragons have adopted strict rules against this. Any dragon who procreates with humans is considered a traitor and hunted down.

Guess IEs - who are derived from dragonkin - really pissed them off.

Um, wouldn't say extinct.
All the IE are at least decent from elves that were dragon kin, so the bloodlines are still there.

I also wouldn't be surprised if Alachia was sired by Alimas.

And if the Outcast is still alive, or someone who agreed with him.....
Wireknight
I think that the immortal elves aren't so much elf-stock dragonkin as they are elf-derived construct beings on the order of true drakes (i.e. the product of lifeshaping rituals). Dragon blood is part of them, but I imagine that they are by nature more hardy and magically powerful than something that's the result of simple breeding.
Mortax
I agree that that is a plausible explination, but I'm 90% certain I've read that IE are the result of dragons and elves. I don't remember where, I'll try to find it.
Wireknight
They are a result. I believe that Alamais is supposed to have "sired" the first, Alachia. I think they were a servitor race; more than simple dragonkin.
hermit
And they betrayed the dragons, which caused them to stop making them and instead start making drakes, IIRC.

Come to think of it, they were most likely behind the down-cycle hunting of dragons - which diminished the ranks of dragonkind significantly (and, of course, seriously pissed off dragons when they found out; however, since they haven't been able to pinpoint who actually did it, dragons decided to not act so far).

Anyway, Dragons (the ED book that never made it) stated that Dragonkin and IEs were two different things. Ancient History's site states that too.
Mortax
Hmm, this reminds me of something I've often wondered. Which IE participated in the hunting, or was it them at all?
fistandantilus4.0
*pulls out magic eight ball* "my sources say..." Alachia

That's where my money would go.
Plus whichever skags were hunted down by Sirrug
Ol' Scratch
I've always had the impression that Harlequinn did quite a bit of downtime hunting, too. As an example of why I had that impression, I seem to remember in one of the short stories (even if its not canonical) about how he would have been very distraught if the time ever came that he would have to slay Dunkelzahn.

Some of the IEs may have killed indescrimnately during the downtime, but I think that if Harley was involved, he was actually targetting the "bad ones" if and when he managed to find them.

But that's all pure conjecture on my part, as if it really mattered either way. smile.gif The downtime hunting was basically a "damn, I don't really want to have to bring back all those old dragons from Earthdawn, so how can I get out of doing that? Oh, I know, the IEs hunted them! Yay!" plot hook. So, yeah, I doubt if much thought went into it, really. It could easily have been due to disease, some kind of silly dragon war, or any other random idea someone came up with when they put the ink to paper. It's just a convenient plot hook to explain why there aren't too many dragons.

Well, why there weren't too many dragons. They seem to be a dime a dozen these days.
hermit
There have been dragons galore ever since Germany SB decided to put a whooping five Greats into Germany alone, and two more into Switzerland and Austria respectively, if I remember (the never-translated expansions of GSB) C&D and WPSI correctly - and at least Germany SB became canon.

And as for the down-cycle hunting ... I dunno. The first time it showed up (and I noticed) was in Aztlan, Findley's last book. Maybe it was a part of a larger IE plotline that never was realised? It just seemed like something Findley (and the rest of that time's SR writers team) intended to build on, rather than a convenient excuse to drop the too fantasy-ish dragons frm ED.
Wireknight
Don't forget Aithne Oakforest. He's always seemed to have a special, almost psychotic hatred for the dragons. I doubt Lofwyr eating the promising young scion of the Oakforest bloodline in the new world has done anything to mollify that.
Ancient History
I go on a little vacation, stop off to check out my brother's wireless connection on his new laptop and what do I find? Ghost and begorrah.

Oh, by the way, nice to see you here GaiasWrath8. smile.gif

First, a reference so we're all on the same page. In particular, check out page 142. Please not dragon-kin aren't solely elves.

I'm not addressing whether or not dragons can fall in love (or lust), but it is possible some dragonkin exist in SR. Akira Kageyama is a primary candidate for that.

Bred drakes would appear to fulfil the purpose of dragonkin anyway, but for all those science buffs who want to know what you get trying to mix dragon DNA with metahuman, checkout Lofwyr's comments considering Dunkelzahn's vaccine in the novel The Forever Drug.

On the subject of Immortal Elves, it is generally agreed that they are different from your avergae dragon-kin elf, having been altered by powerful spirits or draconic ritual magic (or a rare genetic mutation, etc. Take your pick.) Their mortal descendants might be normal examples of whatever metahuman species they express as, or they might not. We haven't seen one, so there's no telling.

Chances are Alachia was actually sired by Lofwyr, not Alamaise. She was not, by any measure, the first, although she appears to be the oldest one currently existing, dating back to the early Fourth World (it is possible she dates back to the later Second World, the Age of Dragons, but I find this unlikely). Alachia is generally most agreed-upon to have participated in the down-cycle hunting, which would explain the absence of dragons in Tír na nÓg and possibly the corpse in Thuringia.

Doctor FUnkenstein, of course, is referring to the short story WYrm Talk, although I disagree that this implies -H- necessairilly did any down-cycle hunting.

Aithne /might/ have participated, though I doubt he's that stupid.
GaiasWrath8
QUOTE (Ancient History)

Oh, by the way, nice to see you here GaiasWrath8. smile.gif


Thanks, Its not like I stopped playing, I just did not have any questions. LOL
FlakJacket
QUOTE (Ancient History)
Their mortal descendants might be normal examples of whatever metahuman species they express as, or they might not. We haven't seen one, so there's no telling.

Huh? Are you talking about IE's or dragonkin here, 'cause don't the books say that Ehran's daughter Frosty is also immortal so that it's inherited.
hermit
Besides Erhan has this gene scanning for immortals campaign going (TT book, if I remember correctly).
Jrayjoker
Another aside:

In Harlequin (the module) Ehran has

[ Spoiler ]


in his lab. Adding credence to the thought that IEs and GDs are in hate. And also causing me to think that Ehran has done some huning in his down cycle days.
Wireknight
My apologies, I mixed up my elven queens. Wasn't the first of the great elves (i.e. the immortal elves) the elven queen that Alamais nuked? I was under the impression she was also a product of Alamais' tampering with lifeforms, and also the one who gave him the terrible wound that scarred him.
hermit
Yeah, I think so too.

Some IEs and some dragons do get along though. Somewhat, at least. See Harley and Dunky. Other Greats - like Loffy and especially his charming hatchmate - hate their guts. Again, others (like Celedyr or Hestaby) are indifferent to them, in general. However, it can well be presumed Erhan hates dragons, and dragons hate Erhan. Check out the Tir Taingire book, especially the chapter about the council of princes.

Also, note how Harley bosses around dunky in that document. Seems certain very old IEs are comparable in power to even the Loremaster of dragonkind.
fistandantilus4.0
QUOTE (Ancient History)
Bred drakes would appear to fulfil the purpose of dragonkin anyway, but for all those science buffs who want to know what you get trying to mix dragon DNA with metahuman, checkout Lofwyr's comments considering Dunkelzahn's vaccine in the novel The Forever Drug.

Don't suppose you could just tell us? I've been trying to get that book for a while with no luck yet.

Oh, and as I recall, the first elven queen stuck Alamiase and drove him out of the wood. It was "Good Queen Dalia" he "nuked". A couple queens before Alachia.

I'd always had the impression that Alachia and Harlequin were about the same age.

AH- why Lowfyr? Her personality always seemes closer to Alamiase than Lowfyr (IMO at least). Read something I haven't (Like say the Forever Drug)?
Hoondatha
I don't think an individual IE is equal to some of the older Greats (maybe a younger great, like Masaru, though). I think the point is that the IE's would band together and THEN they'd have the power to take on Dunkelzahn. Every reference I can find (TT and the Wyrm Talk short story) refers to multiple IE's fighting the dragon, not one.

Getting back on topic, I really wish that Ehran appeared in the Earthdawn books, it would make things easier. We have Harlequin, Alachia, and Aithne in Blood Wood, and Aina referenced in Horrors, but I think many of the others were from either Sereatha or Shosara, which are north of Barsaive (modern somewhere around the North Sea I think), and aren't covered in the books (if I'm wrong here, please let me know). Ehran would probably be from Sereatha given his long history with Harlequin and their similar training. I know Lofwyr was somewhere up there (more in modern Germany, I think, but who knows?).

In short, we only have a small piece of the puzzle, and it's driving me nuts. Which, of course, means the designers did their jobs well.
Ol' Scratch
I don't remember where I got it, but I've always had the very distinct impression that Harlequinn and Alachia at the very least hail from the 2nd World along with Dunkelzahn.

Regardless, they are on about the same wavelength powerwise. It's like the old 20 year old vs. 10 year old age comparison. By the time one is 100, the other is 90 and you're all but equal in experience and wisdom. Now multiply those numbers by a few thousand or even tens of thousands of years for some and you'll see why they're on comparative power levels.
toturi
Like the difference between a Level 19 and Level 20 character from the other game. The GD might have a couple of thousand more xp but it is still just 1 level more.
fistandantilus4.0
QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein)
I don't remember where I got it, but I've always had the very distinct impression that Harlequinn and Alachia at the very least hail from the 2nd World along with Dunkelzahn.


I always got that impression as well. Mostly because (stop me if I'm wrong her AH) as I understand it, 'minions' that the dragons created back in the 2nd age to help them rule, and then took over during the 3d age (and then got their butts put back in to place in the beginning of the 4th) were the original immortal elves. I think that H was once quoted, speaking of Ehran, saying the he has "socks older than him". So could Har and Alachia, who are argueably about eqaul in power, and probably the strongest of the elves, be from the 2bd age? Aithne wasn't even anyone special really in the 4th age and was pretty much head over heels for his "queen". (wonder when he realized he was immortal?).
Hoondatha
On the other hand, I think the Scourge took all the IE's by surprise (I believe it's in Worlds Without End, but I haven't reread that in a while). If so, that would mean they were from the early 4th world, not the 2nd. And besides, if Alachia *had* survived a Scourge, she wouldn't have had to send her Blood Warders frantically trying to create a ward. She would have had six hundred years to study them from inside her dragon master's cave.

I think a more plausible timeline is that the dragons created the IE's in the early 4th world to interface with the growing populations of metahumans. Sometime before the Scourge (probably centuries before), the IE's tired of being servitors and conspired to rebel/"frag up the dragon's carefully laid plans." They're set free/kicked out to fend for themselves and integrate into the world's population, to be taken by surprise by the Scourge.

Meanwhile (possibly during his isolation during the Scourge when he has nothing better to do), Icewing devotes time to creating the drake rituals and shares them with the other dragons, sometime either just before or just after the Scourge (gee, how many times am I going to have to write "the Scourge" in this post? smile.gif ) as a better version of long-lived servitors.
fistandantilus4.0
QUOTE (Hoondatha)
If so, that would mean they were from the early 4th world, not the 2nd. And besides, if Alachia *had* survived a Scourge, she wouldn't have had to send her Blood Warders frantically trying to create a ward. She would have had six hundred years to study them from inside her dragon master's cave.


A very good point actually. Another possibility is that they were made near the end of the 2nd age, and history hadn't recorded the Scourge in any lasting way, besides the dragon's memories, and they decided not to tell their servants to make them more dependant. But I think your point is much more plausible. Never thought of that. So..... who were the servitors that took over the world while the dragons slept then?
hermit
Good question. Maybe something else entirely, that didn't last through the scourge?

Anyway, on the topic of IEs ganging up on dragons: No. They're every bit as bitchy and territorial as dragons are. Well, maybe a tad less because they still, deep inside, pack-based, as opposed to solitary dragons, but in essence, they have lived for so long and known each other for so long that they just hate each other. I think it was Aina in WWE who let us in on that, but I could be wrong.

However, while they were maybe not around in the early (pre-scourge) 2nd age, Harley and Alachia could well have been products of a waning magic level 2nd age, and then taken control over earth while their makes and masters were sleeping. I mean, just look at how dragons like to keep everyone in the dark about world history in SR. Would they have told their (post-2nd-age scourge) minions of the happenings of the past? hardly. Maybe they did this even taking nto account their minions would backstab them and take over during the third world, and the lack of knowledge about the scourge was intentional to punish them in this eventuality? I mean, we're talking dragons here, who are known for long-term planning and being vengeful (check the Loffy chapter in threats 2).

On the topic of Erhan: he could well have been born just after the age of heroes. IEs, while the first of them clearly were dragon-made, appear naturally now from time to time - re Lady of the Court, who is still in her late fifties (and, thus, subject to bullying by snobby older IEs, see the Aztlan file).

Loffy always has been living in what is modern Germany, aparently. The place seems to attract dragons like shit does flies, anyway, and keep them surprisingly calm about beng so close to each other too. Gotta reread DotSW to find out why. Synner said it's in there, after all.

Finally: AH, could you please let us in on the Loffy comments on the Dukelzahn vaccine? I can't get that book where I live, so I have bno other way to find out. Thanks. smile.gif
Ol' Scratch
In the 4th World, they had no way of knowing there would be a second Scourge. It had only (knowingly?) happened once before, so it was nearly impossible to even suspect that there was any cycle to it. A lost and obscure book of doom notwithstanding (as if that would necessarily mean anything... Y2K and all).

This time, however, they have a good reason to suspect another Scourge is coming. They've seen the mana tide rise and fall twice now, and Ehran at the very least was able to calculate when it would happen. So now they see that there is definitely a cycle... and can thus prepare for what's to come.

So that doesn't exactly offer proof that because the IEs (and even the dragons) were caught off-guard by the 4th World's Scourge, they couldn't have been from the 2nd World. Especially when there's more evidence to suggest that at least two of them are (though for the life of me I can't recall where it's coming from... grr).
Ancient History
QUOTE (flakjacket)
QUOTE (ancient history)
Their mortal descendants might be normal examples of whatever metahuman species they express as, or they might not. We haven't seen one, so there's no telling. 


Huh? Are you talking about IE's or dragonkin here, 'cause don't the books say that Ehran's daughter Frosty is also immortal so that it's inherited.

Note I said mortal descendants of IE's. We don't know if they qualify as dragonkin or not.

QUOTE (hermit)
Besides Erhan has this gene scanning for immortals campaign going.

Both Tirs have apparently perfected a test to check for the presence of the genetic marker for immortality in elves.

QUOTE (wireknight)
My apologies, I mixed up my elven queens. Wasn't the first of the great elves (i.e. the immortal elves) the elven queen that Alamais nuked? I was under the impression she was also a product of Alamais' tampering with lifeforms, and also the one who gave him the terrible wound that scarred him.

The first of the Great Elves in Wyrm Wood was Caynreth, Alamaise' daughter. She rebelled, scarred him, and was killed. Alamaise also killed another Queen later on, the reason for his animosity with the non-Great Elves of the Elven Court.

There are rumors that the first IE's (or at least dragonkin elves) precede the creation of the Wyrm Wood itself, and Alachia is, as far as anyone has determined, not a native of the Wyrm Wood, coming from (I think) Lofwyr's neck of Vasgothia. Considering the number of GD's in the area, there's certainly room for other sires, but it would make the IEs of the Court and Sereatha 'kissing cousins' so to speak.

QUOTE (fistandtilus3.0)
QUOTE (Ancient History)

Bred drakes would appear to fulfil the purpose of dragonkin anyway, but for all those science buffs who want to know what you get trying to mix dragon DNA with metahuman, checkout Lofwyr's comments considering Dunkelzahn's vaccine in the novel The Forever Drug


Don't suppose you could just tell us? I've been trying to get that book for a while with no luck yet.


Lofwyr intimates that the vaccine, based off certain draconic genetic traits, was to create a new servitor race, as well as substantially increase the lifespan of those vaccinated. As the vaccine was destroyed, we'll never know.

QUOTE (fistandtilus3.0)

I'd always had the impression that Alachia and Harlequin were about the same age.


There are indications that both Alachia is the oldest of the IEs. Certainly, Alachia is older than Aina, and likely older than Harlequin, though Harlequin is, by dint of effort, more powerful than Alachia. Ehran and Harlequin appear to be more-or-less the same age, though that's gone back and forth in various comments over the years.

QUOTE (fistandtilus3.0)
I always got that impression as well. Mostly because (stop me if I'm wrong her AH) as I understand it, 'minions' that the dragons created back in the 2nd age to help them rule, and then took over during the 3d age (and then got their butts put back in to place in the beginning of the 4th) were the original immortal elves. I think that H was once quoted, speaking of Ehran, saying the he has "socks older than him". So could Har and Alachia, who are argueably about eqaul in power, and probably the strongest of the elves, be from the 2bd age? Aithne wasn't even anyone special really in the 4th age and was pretty much head over heels for his "queen". (wonder when he realized he was immortal?).

During the Age of Dragons, the GDs enslaved all the other metahuman races, and possibly others. The IEs and other dragonkin were their administrators. Specifically, the IEs were made to maintain the empire during the downcycle when the GDs were asleep. During the downcycle, the IEs took the power for themselves. What happened next is unclear...it all happened Pre-Scourge. Obviously, a good part of the world managed to free itself from IE rule, and at least some IEs rebelled against the GDs, were slapped down, and most of the IEs migrated to the Western Kingdoms and the new-formed Elven Court. One particularly rebellious group broke off and formed the Theran Empire.

I shall take a moment and clarify that in terms of sheer magical ability, the apparent pecking order is Harlequin, then Ehran the Scribe, then the other IEs. Those two are the most powerful, Alachia's age not withstanding. It has been suggested that both Alachia and Ehran have both seen at least one previous Awakening, suggesting they were alive during the 3rd age downcycle. If they were sired during the Age of Dragons (rather than the downcycle or the start of the Earthdawn Era, the Age of Legend) that would make them about 2,000 years or so younger than Dunkelzahn and Ghostwalker...more or less.

Aithne gives a good impression of being at least a "2nd generation" IE, descended from another IE rather than directly from a dragon.


fistandantilus4.0
QUOTE (Ancient History @ Jun 1 2005, 07:35 PM)

One particularly rebellious group broke off and formed the Theran Empire.


Messias was more or less the father of Thera. you're saying there were more IE's as the power behind the throne so to speak? I assume they would have founded the Heavenherds then?The Theran Governors seemed to have 'normal' lifespans, life extending magic not withstanding. So did they always stay 'behind the curtain'?
Where can I find references for that? I've gone through a few ED novels, and the Thera boxed set. No mention that I can find.

So here's a can of worms. With modern genetics (2064 modern that is), gene recombination and nanite engineering and all that, with blood samples from a dragon, would it be possible to replicate dragonkin? Is there more to the basic dragonkin than a metahuman mating with a dragon (muses on how big a troll dragonkin could be)? I understand that the true IE's were probably something closer to a dragonkin with an 'Alter Life' ritual, dragon style. But for SR purposes, any reason that you couldn't combine dragon DNA with a metahumans, since they seem pretty compatible anyways? Of course it would take quite a lot of gene sequencing and mapping, but I'm sure some corp somewhere has started on that already (Or maybe Ehran and his vivisected dragon buddy in his basement).

Sure there's a hell of a lot of repercussions, but is there any reason it wouldn't be possible?
Ancient History
QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0)
QUOTE (Ancient History @ Jun 1 2005, 07:35 PM)

One particularly rebellious group broke off and formed the Theran Empire.


Messias was more or less the father of Thera. you're saying there were more IE's as the power behind the throne so to speak? I assume they would have founded the Heavenherds then?The Theran Governors seemed to have 'normal' lifespans, life extending magic not withstanding. So did they always stay 'behind the curtain'?
Where can I find references for that? I've gone through a few ED novels, and the Thera boxed set. No mention that I can find.

The Heavenherds were really responsible for founding Thera. Messias was just the excuse used to exile them from the Wyrm Wood. You can see it most clearly in the often-cursed Theran EMpire Sourcebook.

QUOTE

So here's a can of worms. With modern genetics (2064 modern that is), gene recombination and nanite engineering and all that, with blood samples from a dragon, would it be possible to replicate dragonkin? Is there more to the basic dragonkin than a metahuman mating with a dragon (muses on how big a troll dragonkin could be)? I understand that the true IE's were probably something closer to a dragonkin with an 'Alter Life' ritual, dragon style. But for SR purposes, any reason that you couldn't combine dragon DNA with a metahumans, since they seem pretty compatible anyways? Of course it would take quite a lot of gene sequencing and mapping, but I'm sure some crop somewhere has started on that already (Or maybe Ehran and his vivisected dragon buddy in his basement).

Sure there's a hell of a lot of repercussions, but is there any reason it wouldn't be possible?

Sure. Whenever you have /any/ genes at all magic-related, your chances of getting something useful out of it go tits-up, even with the current level of technology. And dragons are more innately magical than damn near anything this side of Shasta Deer. Yes, it's possible. Not very possible, and requiring billions of nuyen in research and facilities, in addition to a steady supply of dragon DNA. Si no, it's not likely to happen anytime soon.

And like I said, the GDs know what a pain in the ass it would be. Why do you think they're snapping up all the bred drakes? Breeding programs are so much easier and cheaper.

A troll dragonkin wouldn't be any bigger than a normal troll.
fistandantilus4.0
QUOTE
A troll dragonkin wouldn't be any bigger than a normal troll.


Buzz kill

I was looking over the SOTA 63 book, which is of course where I got the idea from. It does say that doing any kind of tinkering with metagenics is tricky at best. I'm not expecting it to happen, just looking at hypotheticals, because it was an interesting idea. Thanks
Hoondatha
Why do you refer to the Theran Empire book as "often cursed"? I was kind of looking forward to finally getting a clearer picture of the major, non-Horror bad guys of the setting.

PS: Isn't it good that Horrors don't exist, what with all the time we spend researching them? smile.gif
fistandantilus4.0
Maybe for you. My group plays SR and ED about equally. Damn those things are nasty.
Hoondatha
Sorry, I guess I was making too oblique a joke, referring to how all the books on horrors say it's dangerous for anyone, especially unprotected mortals (which would be us) to study the horrors. And boy do we study them. We'd all be Marked if they existed.
fistandantilus4.0
Hehehe. Funny you should mention that. I just got Scourge Unending the other day!
Ancient History
QUOTE (Hoondatha)
Why do you refer to the Theran Empire book as "often cursed"? I was kind of looking forward to finally getting a clearer picture of the major, non-Horror bad guys of the setting.

That's pretty much why it's cursed. The Theran Empire, as presented in the sourcebook, is somewhere between the most decadent stages of the Roman Empire and your average megacorp. That's fine and dandy, except all the provinces are take offs of various and sundry historical periods. Luckily, there's always something in a given section you can enjoy, even if it's Tilea. Urgh.
FlakJacket
QUOTE (Ancient History)
Luckily, there's always something in a given section you can enjoy, even if it's Tilea. Urgh.

At least we got Mole Skin and a nascent Christi*ahem* Primaism and his church. Temple. Temple even, what am I saying? wink.gif I actually thought that Tilea was okay-ish, well in comparison to Creana. Some of the regions I liked, but some of them were just too much of a blatant ripoff.
Ancient History
Tilea had the interesting twist on ReNaming, Vasgothia had the fairly silly Fruits of the Passions/Horrors, I liked Creana, even if it was a horrible anachronism, and Marac could have been done far, far worse.
FlakJacket
You liked the Creana section? Good gods man, do you have no shame? nyahnyah.gif
fistandantilus4.0
While we're on the subject/tangent of different 'kingdoms' in ED, anyone know of any references to Thayla besides HqB and the DH trilogy? As in, any ED references? Just curious.

On that thought, Thayla essentially banished her self to a metaplane, right? Shouldn't she still have aged while she was gone? How did she stay around so long? Or maybe this should go on to the 'Lightbearer' thread. Or maye we should make a 'how can I make my ED character immortal and come into SR' thread! biggrin.gif

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