Umbrage
Jun 1 2005, 08:27 PM
A group of runners are crusing through Puyallup on their bikes. Unbeknownst to them, a local gang has heard them coming and stretched a cable across the road, about chest high. The gang's intentions are to knock the runners off their bikes and then rob them blind (including their bikes) while they lay splayed out into the middle of the road. As a GM, how would you stage this encounter?
I was thinking about Perception(8) test to notice the cable, modified up if they're going exceptionally fast and adding standard visibility modifers. What type of Reaction test would be used to stop in time, and what kind of damage should they resist if they fail either of those rolls? 10S Stun?
Aardvark892
Jun 1 2005, 08:37 PM
The type of cable used would be very important. Not very long ago, a couple on a Gold Wing had this exact thing happen to them; someone stretched a thin cable across underneath an overpass. I know the bike was ruined, and both of them had to be hospitalized, but I do not know off hand if either of them were killed. Remember, if the cable has enough tension in it, it would be like hitting a wall... and even worse if it is at head/neck height. Shadowrun tends to be a very deadly game... don't forget that applies to bike crashes as well. If they hit this thing (and BTW, I'd suggest a perception check of at least 8-10, unless it's a very thick cable) it could very well kill them outright. Imagine how fast bikers, especially Shadowrunners or gangers, usually travel. I hope this helps somewhat.
Tim
Herald of Verjigorm
Jun 1 2005, 08:37 PM
The damage should be the same as for a vehicle collision at whatever speed they are going. If you feel generous, drop the damage level by one to indicate how much the cable can give before they got to make a sudden stop. If you feel malicious, do the opposite due to the relatively small contact area that gets to absorb all the relevant forces.
BitBasher
Jun 1 2005, 08:43 PM
Honestly, it's likely that would kill a motorcyclist outright. In movies they can just write into the script that someone survives that, in real life man... Moving at any real speeds they're dead.
The damage to the person will be far worse that hitting a wall or a car at that speed because all the energy of the impact is transferred into a very narrow area horizontally across the rider by the obstacle.
Austere Emancipator
Jun 1 2005, 08:47 PM
QUOTE (Aardvark892) |
Remember, if the cable has enough tension in it, it would be like hitting a wall... and even worse if it is at head/neck height. |
Umbrage
Jun 1 2005, 08:48 PM
Eh, I don't want to make this an impossible to survive, just soften up the PCs before having to deal with the gangers. Maybe I'll rethink the encounter.
Trax
Jun 1 2005, 08:55 PM
What if instead of a cable they simply dig some potholes and cover it up or fill it with water? The bikes come through, hit a pothole, and they fall down.
Herald of Verjigorm
Jun 1 2005, 08:56 PM
Soften them up with a little suppressive fire across the road as they are expected to pass. Some may take wounds, and it may be enough to distract them as the real threat pulls out from around the corner. Instead of being a dead or nothing like your attempted forced crash scenario, it'll be anywhere from nothing to deadly with the highest likelyhood around M or L.
nezumi
Jun 1 2005, 09:03 PM
I'd decrease the TN to spot it. I presume it's not monofilament. If it's something thick enough to stop a charging cycle, or at least the rider, it should be thick enough to be a bit easier to spot than your fishing line tripwire. If it's supposed to just harass them, the damage will be much lower since the cable will snap when hit.
TN of 4-6 is much more reasonable (since we're talking about the base TN for someone who's standing still to see it in normal lighting). The TN will go up quickly with modifiers. Don't forget the motorcycles' autonav.
UpSyndrome
Jun 1 2005, 09:13 PM
You could make the perception check an open test and figure out the distance at which each person sees the cable dependent upon the result (like perception check * 10m), thus giving you a distance to work with in combination with their speed to determine how many deceleration attempts they get before they hit it. After that point it's a simple matter of vehicle combat rules and collision. Also, I agree with the collision damage idea--I'd treat the cable as a vehicle with a higher body than the person/motorcycle, because of the deadly nature of such a trap.
-Joe
Umbrage
Jun 1 2005, 09:18 PM
Thanks for the ideas.
Vehicle rules are my bane. Once a character spots something in the road (cable, pothole, squatter), how do I know whether he can sucessfully stop in time enough to prevent a collision? I can't find anything in the BBB or R3, but I could easily be overlooking something.
Edward
Jun 1 2005, 09:48 PM
One way to do the encounter as you wanted without killing the PCs would be to use a old rope instead of cable, say that due to the cable breaking after stretching damage is only crashing damage.
Those riding side buy side in the front would all be affected, those behind would risk crashing into downed bikes (crash test in tight conditions and bad road).
Follow the crash up with fire from cover. Effectives of this fire will be determined buy the skill and size of the gang. Or the gang may choose to make demands at that time.
I would say a rope or cable would have a base perception TN of 5, you can use what the PCs get above that to determine range at witch they stop it and thus wether or not they crash you do this buy working out the distance to impact, and there speed. The character then makes a drive test (TN vehicle handling with terrain modifiers) he will slow buy the vehicles deceleration * successes and move according to his new speed divided buy the number of actions in the turn.
I believe an example is in order
Biker notices cable at 100m
Biker is moving at speed 100
Biker has initiative 12 (very good for a non rigger with a vehicle)
Bike has acceleration 10
Bike has handling 4
Biker has skill bike at 4 and no rigger equipment.
On noticing cable biker decides to slow down as fast as he can.
He gets 3 successes on his deceleration test.
His new speed is (100 old speed -10 acceleration * 3 successes) 70
He has 2 actions this turn so he travels half of that
the new distance to the cable is (100 old distance – 70 new speed / 2 actions in turn) 65m
on his next action the biker roles only 1 success
his new speed is 60
his new distance Is 35m
initiative is rolled again the biker gets 9, only one action
the biker puts his all into slowing down and gets 3 successes
new speed 30, new distance is 5 m
initiative is rolled again, the biker gets a 8
the biker rolls 2 successes giving a new speed of 10
moving forward 10m will put him past the cable but he is only moving at speed 10 (just for your interest that is 12km/h, a brisk waking pace) so he should likely suffer no damage but pay be separated from his bike or tangled in the line.
Edward
BitBasher
Jun 1 2005, 11:02 PM
Just make the cable a big ass bungie cord.
PBTHHHHT
Jun 2 2005, 01:07 AM
QUOTE (BitBasher) |
Just make the cable a big ass bungie cord. |
Sounds almost like a Road Runner skit.
Shadowrun meets Looney Tunes... or Three stooges...
Aardvark892
Jun 2 2005, 01:41 AM
QUOTE (nezumi) |
I'd decrease the TN to spot it. I presume it's not monofilament. |
Wow. Monofilament cable. I hadn't thought of that. Almost certain death... they won't be able to see it, and it'll cut through motorcycle, biker, armor, everything. It's not as deadly as it could be in SR, but it's still really nasty.
Tim
Cain
Jun 2 2005, 01:41 AM
QUOTE (Umbrage) |
Thanks for the ideas.
Vehicle rules are my bane. Once a character spots something in the road (cable, pothole, squatter), how do I know whether he can sucessfully stop in time enough to prevent a collision? I can't find anything in the BBB or R3, but I could easily be overlooking something. |
You want p 142 and 148, BBB. Those go over the acceleration/braking rules and the Crash test.
Backgammon
Jun 2 2005, 02:13 AM
Reminds me of my youger days, when one time we decided to pretend we were holding a cable across the road. A guy on each side of the road, crouched, with hands pretending to hold a wire. Fun until cops just happen to drive by. Ugh.
toturi
Jun 2 2005, 02:18 AM
Monofilament cable. Isn't that a contradiction?
Nikoli
Jun 2 2005, 02:26 AM
Physical barrier across the roadway, knock them off, soften them up, removes the vehicle from the equation.
fistandantilus4.0
Jun 2 2005, 04:51 AM
WHen I was a kid, about 12, I was at a soccer practice. Road next to it was about 25mph. A couple on a motorcycle caught a ball in the fron tire. As in, it went over the fence, they ran in to it head on, stopped the wheel, they went flying. Both went to the hospital. Of course, it was summer it California, so they were wearing shorts. Runners in Seattle would be a little better equipped. BUt how many runners actually bother with helmets.
Arethusa
Jun 2 2005, 04:58 AM
The not incompetent ones, I imagine.
wargear
Jun 2 2005, 05:16 AM
We used a Physical Barrier spell to create a ramp while being pursued at high speed by a go gang...as we did it just before a curve, the results were quite spectacular...
fistandantilus4.0
Jun 2 2005, 05:23 AM
QUOTE (Arethusa) |
The not incompetent ones, I imagine. |
ahh... now my players won' t like you
Arethusa
Jun 2 2005, 05:29 AM
That's ok, I'll just run some cable across the road.
wargear
Jun 2 2005, 05:48 AM
Road spikes make a very impressive alternative...
Cain
Jun 2 2005, 06:25 AM
QUOTE (wargear) |
We used a Physical Barrier spell to create a ramp while being pursued at high speed by a go gang...as we did it just before a curve, the results were quite spectacular... |
I did that once. The biggest difference was that I had my ramp take a sudden sideways twist.
fistandantilus4.0
Jun 2 2005, 07:50 AM
I did that once too.... just a short barrier.. 'bout a foot tall, across the whole street.
Not fun for guys on bikes. For cars.... angled ramps like they use for stunts in the movies to make the cars flip
Fresno Bob
Jun 2 2005, 08:28 AM
QUOTE (Aardvark892) |
...and it'll cut through motorcycle, biker, armor, everything. Tim |
Actually, I think it would just cut through the tire and then break when it got to the rims. You could put the cable at tire height and just have them superman over the handlebars.
nick012000
Jun 2 2005, 10:12 AM
QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0 @ Jun 2 2005, 12:23 AM) |
QUOTE (Arethusa @ Jun 1 2005, 11:58 PM) | The not incompetent ones, I imagine. |
ahh... now my players won' t like you |
Then they're not too bright. Rapid Transit Helmets cost next to nothing, and are the best helmets in the game that are legal for civvies to have. Combine them with an Ancien line shawl, and it equals a security helmet for protection, though the sec helm's better because you can get all the wiz gadgets installed.
Austere Emancipator
Jun 2 2005, 11:43 AM
QUOTE (nick012000) |
Combine them with an Ancien line shawl [...] |
I assume this kit is for a female character on her way to a ball, or at least for an elf?
Nikoli
Jun 2 2005, 11:59 AM
QUOTE (Voorhees) |
QUOTE (Aardvark892 @ Jun 1 2005, 05:41 PM) | ...and it'll cut through motorcycle, biker, armor, everything. Tim |
Actually, I think it would just cut through the tire and then break when it got to the rims. You could put the cable at tire height and just have them superman over the handlebars.
|
Kiss your hip joints good bye then.
Critias
Jun 2 2005, 12:00 PM
QUOTE (Austere Emancipator) |
QUOTE (nick012000) | Combine them with an Ancien line shawl [...] |
I assume this kit is for a female character on her way to a ball, or at least for an elf?
|
Hey. You tell the Troll street sam his momma dresses him funny.
wagnern
Jun 2 2005, 03:45 PM
Don't discount the bungie idea. You don't need to go looney toons sling shot on them, you just need to extend the time of contact between the cable/cord and the riders. Of corse the same could be done with cable if the ends were not held rigidly. If the ends are being held by the gang's toughs, it would give a bit under impact and that could provide enough of beleavablity to such a colision not breaking every bone the the charictors upper torso.
or the rusty old piece of crap cable they use breaks when they hit it. It held long enough to knock em off the bikes, but in breaking absorbed a lot of the force. 'Roll' for the cable breaking so they feal lucky. "Man, if the cable diden't break, we would all be two feet shorter right now." Now the gangers expect the party to be dead, or quickly heading there, so they would probably spend most of their inital actons looting. (So the PC's won't have to endure too much of a pummling while they are lying on the ground in termendous pain.)
wagnern
Jun 2 2005, 04:10 PM
QUOTE (Critias) |
QUOTE (Austere Emancipator @ Jun 2 2005, 06:43 AM) | QUOTE (nick012000) | Combine them with an Ancien line shawl [...] |
I assume this kit is for a female character on her way to a ball, or at least for an elf?
|
Hey. You tell the Troll street sam his momma dresses him funny.
|
Shaw?? are you sure you don't mean a coif? I don't know what the thing is, but from the context it was mentioned in, I am thinking coif.
cloif deffinition, sorry for crappy page, best can find at momentIf I am not mistaken, I think there is a simular thing worn amongt some bikers today, for warmth and some protection, I don't know what they call it now.
Fresno Bob
Jun 2 2005, 05:04 PM
No, shawl. Page 47-48 in the CC, although it doesn't actually say what stats the Shawl itself gives.
Foreigner
Jun 2 2005, 05:08 PM
Umbrage:
American soldiers ran into the same problem in the European Theatre of Operations during World War II.
One of the nastier tricks the Axis soldiers pulled was to run a length of piano wire across a road at the approximate level of the neck of a man seated in a vehicle; this was particularly effective against motorcycle dispatch riders (motorcycles intended for military use seldom were equipped with windscreens) and personnel riding in Jeeps with the top and windshield lowered.
The result was similar to what happens in SR with Monowire (with the exception that piano wire can be stopped by heavy clothing or anything tougher)--instant decapitation.
The G.I.s quickly came up with an improvised solution--they welded a section of pipe or angle iron (about four feet or so in length, or slightly higher than the head of a seated man) to the front bumper. The iron or pipe broke the wire before the vehicle's passenger compartment could encounter it, eliminating the threat.
I'm not sure if motorcycle messengers had a solution, although strapping/welding a length of broomstick or pipe to the handlebars or front fender might work.
Under magical solutions, how about trying a combination of spells?
Ice Sheet and Invisibility, for example.
Failing that, a variation of the traditional Burmese tiger pit might also work.
The original version, which was adapted to use against two-legged predators by natives and U.S. Marines serving in the Pacific Theater of Operations, used sharpened, fire-hardened bamboo stakes, but it could easily be adapted to non-lethal techniques. (The soldiers, sailors, and Marines in Vietnam called them "punji sticks".)
Water, Narcoject (or another general anesthetic agent) and Dimethyl Sulfoxide, for example.
Or if you want something a little less complex, try filling the pit with mud or a mixture of water and unflavored gelatin, instead of the aforementioned drug mixture.
Edit: Sorry, ladies and gentlemen. I really didn't mean to be quite so vague.
--Foreigner
Fresno Bob
Jun 2 2005, 05:26 PM
QUOTE (Foreigner) |
mixture of water and unflavored gelatin |
Whats that going to do?
Jrayjoker
Jun 2 2005, 06:06 PM
Sli-ip, slip and slide. (old TV commercial jingle)
Fresno Bob
Jun 2 2005, 07:07 PM
Oh right. I thought he meant it in reference to smearing it on punji sticks.
Arethusa
Jun 2 2005, 07:20 PM
They'll be stabbed full o' jiggly fun.
Honestly, jello/gelatin/jelly on the road doesn't make the slightest bit of sense. Unless you're smearing tons of it on a high speed curve, even my 98 Alti with tires that needed to be replaced 5,000 miles ago could make it out ok with a decent driver behind the wheel.
Part of me wants to suggest a small IED. The rest of me would like to remind all of you that you are being watched, citizens.
And that joke probably just about killed my chances of working for the government.
Austere Emancipator
Jun 2 2005, 08:01 PM
I'll do it for you then. All you need is to take a few land mines or field howitzer rounds from the hidden arm caches of the former dictator of Seattlestan, place them in piles of trash/trashcans/newspaper stands/whatever on the sides of the street, rig them up with detcord and either a pull/pressure or remote detonator, and let your players soak 8D (AV) x 2.
Jrayjoker
Jun 2 2005, 08:01 PM
You are assuming we haven't been keeping an eye on you already....errrr...I meant they, yeah, they.
Birdy
Jun 2 2005, 08:03 PM
It works better with AT-mines but:
Use boards with nails/caltrops in them. Attach a rope to board. Hide board on opposite side of road. Pull over when bike approaches. If you do this ride, the reaction time is to short to evade the stuff. If you have them, you can use the nail-strips seen in various police movies as an alternate.
Normally I'd add spikes:
Bridges call for swinging rebar. Hang on the cyling of the "tunnel", fix/hold on opposite side, release when driver approaches. Since it swings like a pendulum, you get two chances to hit. Can be combined with an automatic release by a tripwire / optical tripwire. If you pad the rebar, the guys hit might even survive
Advanced chemicals:
There are some chemicals that create a very low friction surface. Combine with a reason to change course and watch the bikers slip
The old standby:
Just drop rocks on them from the overdrive
Do it yourself claymore:
Not that complicated but should be quite letal or (if you shoot it low) heavily damage the bikes.
Umbrage
Jun 2 2005, 09:52 PM
If I ever game with ya'll GMing, I'll make sure to bring a stack of character sheets.
Fresno Bob
Jun 2 2005, 10:16 PM
QUOTE (Umbrage) |
If I ever game with ya'll GMing, I'll make sure to bring a stack of character sheets. |
Come on, its not like its hard to come up with ways to kill people. You just cram them full of foreign objects until they stop working.
BitBasher
Jun 2 2005, 10:18 PM
QUOTE (Voorhees) |
QUOTE (Umbrage @ Jun 2 2005, 01:52 PM) |
If I ever game with ya'll GMing, I'll make sure to bring a stack of character sheets. |
Come on, its not like its hard to come up with ways to kill people. You just cram them full of foreign objects until they stop working.
|
Yeah, like Whiffle Balls.
Fresno Bob
Jun 2 2005, 10:23 PM
Man that would take a long time.
BitBasher
Jun 2 2005, 11:06 PM
QUOTE (Voorhees) |
Man that would take a long time. |
Dedication man, dedication.
Edward
Jun 2 2005, 11:12 PM
Whiffle Balls??????
Austere Emancipator
Jun 3 2005, 12:11 AM
QUOTE (Edward) |
Whiffle Balls?????? |