A brief search of www.shadowrunrpg.com proved fruitless - possibly because my interenet connection is sporadically dieing due to the modem ingesting an unhealthy amount of water.
I think I've found a gross Comercial violation of Shadowrun's copyrights. I bought a game at WalMart, called Restricted Area. In addition to being a so-cheesy-it's-funny knock off, I've noticed that the game uses many terms which I believe to be copyrighted by FanPro. Examples I've found so far include Cyberware, Bone Lacing, Datajacks, Dermal Plating, and a few others.
Could someone point me towards the correct party to contact about this possible breach of copyright?
Full Version: I think I've found a gross violation of copyright.
I believe those terms are not SR copyright.
rob@srrpg.com maybe?
Then they oughta be...
When I first played this game, my thoughts were "Oh my god... Some nameless German company created a thoroughly unholy union of Diablo II and Shadowrun... And then made it suck more than it did by default."
And yeah. Once my Internet's back in proper working order, I'll try that email.
When I first played this game, my thoughts were "Oh my god... Some nameless German company created a thoroughly unholy union of Diablo II and Shadowrun... And then made it suck more than it did by default."
And yeah. Once my Internet's back in proper working order, I'll try that email.
I don't think those terms are copyrightable, due to their generic-ness. Then again, I'm no lawyer.
Heh, if they were copyrighted I'm sure some certain irate authors would have beat down FASA's door two decades ago.
Mhhhh... Battletech.... 
I'm much more concerned with the Matrix, which I know *is* copyrighted by FASA. 
Did they get a huge chunck of money for that one?
Did they get a huge chunck of money for that one?
If you mean the films, then no. They only hold the copyright, or whichever one it is that I can never remember, to the term matrix in relation to RPG's. At least that's how I remember Adam explaining it to me ages back.
Actually, the company you'd want to contract on this would be Wizkids, not FanPro.
Not sure this would be the right address, but try customerservice@wizkidsgames.com .
WizKids doesn't have many of those terms copyrighted, but if the terms are used in a very similar context, it's possible they may have some kind of case. But they'd need to see a real lawyer about that.
WizKids doesn't have many of those terms copyrighted, but if the terms are used in a very similar context, it's possible they may have some kind of case. But they'd need to see a real lawyer about that.
I don't believe any of those are copyrighted. A lot of cyberpunk uses stuff like that.
In fact, Cyberpunk 2020 uses most of those a lot.
In fact, Cyberpunk 2020 uses most of those a lot.
Cyberware, a copyright violation? That's like someone trying to copyright "software" or "hardware".
Same thing with the others, they're pretty damn generic.
Same thing with the others, they're pretty damn generic.
You have to remembber though, it's not all about generic-ness, for instance, consider what most of us are working with right now, probably either
Windows™ or maybe a
Macintosh:™
So it can be very industry spacific. Now with that said, it is possible for some terms to be universal, within a spacific genre, such as, i'd imagine cyberware would be, since it is more of a descriptor, than an actual item. I would think it is possible, if they had done it, if they were the "first" within the genre to use them, for things such as dermal plating, move by wires to be copyrighted.
Windows™ or maybe a
Macintosh:™
So it can be very industry spacific. Now with that said, it is possible for some terms to be universal, within a spacific genre, such as, i'd imagine cyberware would be, since it is more of a descriptor, than an actual item. I would think it is possible, if they had done it, if they were the "first" within the genre to use them, for things such as dermal plating, move by wires to be copyrighted.
I wonder if any of the parties involved will look into legal action...
| QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685) |
| I think I've found a gross Comercial violation of Shadowrun's copyrights. I bought a game at WalMart, called Restricted Area. In addition to being a so-cheesy-it's-funny knock off, I've noticed that the game uses many terms which I believe to be copyrighted by FanPro. Examples I've found so far include Cyberware, Bone Lacing, Datajacks, Dermal Plating, and a few others. |
Firstly, yes, Restricted Area is a new game that came out. They were actually kind enough to log on here about six months ago and point us to their demo. If you search for "Restricted Area", you'll find the thread.
Secondly, cyberware was made up well before shadowrun, and I'm not sure how you can contest that "bone lacing", "datajacks" or "dermal plating" could even be copyrighted, much less by Shadowrun first, since things like datajacks and bone lacing are very old.
So no, no copyright infringement involved. I wouldn't bother e-mailing anyone.
It's possible, but i just checked my SR3, and the only words it specifically copyrights are "Matrix" and "Shadowrun". The best thing is to check whichever book it is that has the majority of cyber in it, and see if theres anynotes in it (in the front, with the dedications and credits and that stuff) While it would still technically be possible to persue if they think they can convince the judges that a term has become synonomous with Shadowrun, it would be highly unlikely for them to try, i would think.
I'm absolutely shocked! That you can buy gaming books at Wal-Mart! 
it's not a book though, it's a CRPG, that has been talked about for a while now over on the general gaming boards.
I think it is actually a video game of some sort, not a traditional table top rpg.
Thread discussing Restricted Area
I seriously doubt they have any copyright infringement with Shadowrun.
I seriously doubt they have any copyright infringement with Shadowrun.
Especially since it's German made, and as i understand it, the SR following over in Deutschlund is fairly strong. the people couldnt even feign a lack of knowledge.
| QUOTE (Aku) |
| You have to remembber though, it's not all about generic-ness, for instance, consider what most of us are working with right now, probably either Windows™ or maybe a Macintosh:™ So it can be very industry spacific. Now with that said, it is possible for some terms to be universal, within a spacific genre, such as, i'd imagine cyberware would be, since it is more of a descriptor, than an actual item. I would think it is possible, if they had done it, if they were the "first" within the genre to use them, for things such as dermal plating, move by wires to be copyrighted. |
Notice that the letters TM are used there, not C.
You can't copyright individual words, terms, or names - period - end of sentence.
Those can, however, be trademarked. Trademarks give very limited protection within an industry. If I were to build a house that has windows I wouldn't have to get Microsoft's permission first. If I were to program an OS and call it Windows BP microsoft would have my hoop on a platter - although they would probably just buy the thing from me in the end.
Restricted Access can't violate the Wizkids trademark because it is in a different industry. Trademarks are meant to ensure brand identification and prevent customer confusion. If there is no chance of confusion then the trademark doesn't mater much.
| QUOTE (Hysmarca) |
Restricted Access can't violate the Wizkids trademark because it is in a different industry. Trademarks are meant to ensure brand identification and prevent customer confusion. If there is no chance of confusion then the trademark doesn't mater much. |
True, but it will often be up to the judges to determine where one industry begins, and another ends. For instance, is shadowrun in the "tabletop Rpg--Diced gaming" industry, or just the "Gaming industry". I would say it should be defined as the gaming industry as a whole. For instance, the term "Microsoft" is both, obviously, the company, but is also used, i beleive, in industries that want to define how soft something is (I'm thinking pillows/bedding, but bear with me) but obviously, there isn't any confusion there.
However, if someone were to publish a cyberpunk (or even any genre) of game, called "shadowrun", whether or not it really bore ANY resemblence to the game we play, Wizkids could easily win that trademark/copyright case, because I would think that it would seem to be approved by Wizkids.
If you're going to argue trademarks, Wizkids certainly doesn't have a case. After all, they don't own the rights to Shadowrun video games, Microsoft does. And do you REALLY want to be taking money from a small time computer game producer that's trying to make a good Shadowrun themed product so you can give it to a giant corporation that hasn't shown the slightest interest in anything having anything to do with Shadowrun?
Let Swishtail or whatever the company is called be. Whether you like the game or not, they're doing a lot better than anyone else on the computer game shelf when it comes to Cyberpunk genre games, and we both need those sorts of games out there.
Let Swishtail or whatever the company is called be. Whether you like the game or not, they're doing a lot better than anyone else on the computer game shelf when it comes to Cyberpunk genre games, and we both need those sorts of games out there.
FanPro should also look into sueing Gibson for his use of words such as "street samurai", "hand razors", "wired reflexes", etc.
anybody taking this seriously will be kicked in the mouth. you have been warned.
anybody taking this seriously will be kicked in the mouth. you have been warned.
And Wizards should sue Tolkien's estate for using Elves, Dwarves, and Mithril. Ooh! And Square-Enix. They use Mithril in FF games sometimes.
So what if it was a comic book, how much overlap could you get away with?
Title it Shadowrun?
Have characters like Fastjack and Harlequin?
Use the setting and metaplot?
I'd think the first 2 would be out and directly using the third very questionable.
It is not a rpg, so it could be argued it is a different industry. But it would be published material, sold in many of the same venues that sell SR so it could be argued it is the same media and the same industry.
Title it Shadowrun?
Have characters like Fastjack and Harlequin?
Use the setting and metaplot?
I'd think the first 2 would be out and directly using the third very questionable.
It is not a rpg, so it could be argued it is a different industry. But it would be published material, sold in many of the same venues that sell SR so it could be argued it is the same media and the same industry.
Ok, so it has bone lacing and dermal plating. What the hell else are you going to call metal bonded to bones, or armor plates affixed directly to the skin?
bone plating and dermal lacing.
Thats just a cop-out.
the sights on my Humor Gun are a little high!
Ah, must have been wearing my humor-resistant vest. Let me just check it.
Yep, you can see where the joke hit and was repelled. Sorry about that.
Yep, you can see where the joke hit and was repelled. Sorry about that.
Mr. Johnson = Mr. Jones
Shadowrunners = Freelancers
This game is obviously a Shadowrun rip-off It's so blatant its funny.
Screenshot: http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/60...08033715749.jpg
* I'm not saying this is a copyright infringment, im just posting this for the humor of it. Purely 100% for humor value. I'm not here to make a point, just to entertain. *
Shadowrunners = Freelancers
This game is obviously a Shadowrun rip-off It's so blatant its funny.
Screenshot: http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/60...08033715749.jpg
* I'm not saying this is a copyright infringment, im just posting this for the humor of it. Purely 100% for humor value. I'm not here to make a point, just to entertain. *
Buzzed, do you understand that half of Shadowrun is a blatant rip-off to begin with? i mean, it's a good rip-off, and i don't have anything against rip-offs. but seriousy, siddown and read Neuromancer once. and, actually, if i had to guess, i'd guess that they more than likely cribbed notes from Gibson than Weisman.
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| Buzzed, do you understand that half of Shadowrun is a blatant rip-off to begin with? i mean, it's a good rip-off, and i don't have anything against rip-offs. but seriousy, siddown and read Neuromancer once. and, actually, if i had to guess, i'd guess that they more than likely cribbed notes from Gibson than Jordan. |
Yes im quite aware of this.
With so many rip-offs, I'm glad I'm wearing my rip-stop armour, or I just might end up naked.
crap, now they're going over my head.
| QUOTE (tisoz) |
| So what if it was a comic book, how much overlap could you get away with? Title it Shadowrun? Have characters like Fastjack and Harlequin? Use the setting and metaplot? I'd think the first 2 would be out and directly using the third very questionable. It is not a rpg, so it could be argued it is a different industry. But it would be published material, sold in many of the same venues that sell SR so it could be argued it is the same media and the same industry. |
The first is potentially questionable. The second is potentially a copyright violation. The third would get them droped kicked by Wizkids lawyers so fast that special realivitity will be violated.
Title doesn't matter much unless it is accompanied by a style that would lead a reasonable person to beleive that the comic is affiliated with the Shadowrun RPG in some way. There are many pblished works tha have the same title but are otherwise unrelated and nothing ever comes of it.
The second depends on what you mean by "like". If you mean 'similar to'. Then it is questionable. Characters can be copyrighted but the similarities have to be pretty blatent to qualify as a copyright violation.
Compare, for example, the protagnist from The Books of Magic to Harry Potter.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...871048?v=glance
They are very similar characters in ver similar situations but there is no copyright issue. The two were indepentantly created. JK Rowling had never read The BOoks of MAgic from what I understand. Truely, there are no more original ideas.
If you mean 'such as', then the comic book publisher would face a devestating FTL lawyer dropkick. Characters are copyrighted.
As for the setting and metaplot, it is potentially the most serious violation of copyright. Again, it depends on what you mean when you say that.
Lifting the metaplot from the books event-for-event is serious plagiarism.
On the other hand, if you mean similar plot elements. Such as a powerful magical being becoming president and then sacraficing himself to stop powerful monsters from invading the Earth, then it isn't quite as cut and dry. As I aid, there are no more original ideas. Every story has alredy been writen. The best one can do is try to write an old story in a new way. As a result there will be similarities between independant and unrelated works.
It it the level of simialrity and the actions of the writer that determine the difference between a coincidence, an inspiration, and plagiarism
I was playing that game and saw the similarities until I got to "Smartlink" and then pretty much just busted out laughing.
Also, the artwork for the later plasma rifles is a wholesale copy and paste of the pulse rifle from Aliens.
Also, the artwork for the later plasma rifles is a wholesale copy and paste of the pulse rifle from Aliens.
Reading through the reviews, it sounds like they did so very intentionally. I mean really, if you're a shadowrun fan, but you don't have the rights to make a shadowrun game, how would you make it? And these are people who, again, came to Dumpshock by their own volition to post that they're making this game before it came out.
Yes, they know Shadowrun. They LIKE shadowrun. How many other game producers do you know who actually went out of their way to contact fans of the genre? I'll bet dollars to donuts that M$ wouldn't bother sending anyone our way. I for one think they use shadowrun terms with humility, out of an appreciation for the system, not so they can make a quick buck. When I play the game, I LOOK for the shadowrun/cyberpunk references, and I enjoy them. It makes the world fit better into the books and games I already play.
Yes, they know Shadowrun. They LIKE shadowrun. How many other game producers do you know who actually went out of their way to contact fans of the genre? I'll bet dollars to donuts that M$ wouldn't bother sending anyone our way. I for one think they use shadowrun terms with humility, out of an appreciation for the system, not so they can make a quick buck. When I play the game, I LOOK for the shadowrun/cyberpunk references, and I enjoy them. It makes the world fit better into the books and games I already play.
Actually the game is far enough away from SR:
+ No magic, just PSI
+ Totally different corps and background
+ Totally different mechanics and stats
and so on
that you will have more chances claiming Kevin Costner did infringe on John Fords copyright because both made a film that had US Cavalryman and Indians in them.
Now if they could only deliver a stable version of the game.
Birdy
+ No magic, just PSI
+ Totally different corps and background
+ Totally different mechanics and stats
and so on
that you will have more chances claiming Kevin Costner did infringe on John Fords copyright because both made a film that had US Cavalryman and Indians in them.
Now if they could only deliver a stable version of the game.
Birdy
You know who else they should sue? The people that made syndicate. And Bruce Sterling.
C'mon - shadowrun doesn't hold the patent on cyberpunk. Terms like Bone Lacing and Dermal Plating aren't really trademarkable - unless, of course, you actually invent them - then they'd be trademarkable in a medical context.
C'mon - shadowrun doesn't hold the patent on cyberpunk. Terms like Bone Lacing and Dermal Plating aren't really trademarkable - unless, of course, you actually invent them - then they'd be trademarkable in a medical context.
I invented dermal plating with a cookie sheet and a nailgun.
Syndicate needs a remake so bad it hurts. Actually hurts. A modern tech Syndicate would SO rule.
| QUOTE (BitBasher) |
| Syndicate needs a remake so bad it hurts. Actually hurts. A modern tech Syndicate would SO rule. |
Was that the top down game that became impossibly hard after 15 minutes of play? 4 cyborgs running around and stuff?
Yes, but rampant persuadatroning made most missions extremely easy.
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