Frater Inominatus
Jun 30 2005, 07:19 PM
Quickening / MitS pg. 77
QUOTE |
At the end of the last turn required, the initiate pays Karma equal to the spell's force. The spell in now quickened and self-sustaining. The character may pay additional Karma (up to twice the spell's actual force) to make the spell more difficult to dispel. The spell's force for purposes of dispelling is equal to the total Karma spent to quicken it.
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Tattoo Magic / MitS pg. 78
QUOTE |
Once the tattoo is prepared, the spell is cast and quickened as above. Spells quickened in this manner have an effective force for purposes of dispelling equal to twice the karma spent to quicken them
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If a character has a force six increased reflexes +3 spell quickened using tattoo magic and spends twelve karma for the quickening does the spell have an effective dispelling TN of 24?
The Stainless Steel Rat
Jun 30 2005, 07:42 PM
QUOTE (Frater Inominatus) |
If a character has a force six increased reflexes +3 spell quickened using tattoo magic and spends twelve karma for the quickening does the spell have an effective dispelling TN of 24? |
That is exactly what that means.
Don't forget that quickened spells are every bit as much of a liability as they are an asset. A lot of unexpected nastiness can come from being astrally active without astrally perceiving - especially if you and your spell aren't both masked.
Give them what they want, then make them pay for it.
Smiley
Jun 30 2005, 07:47 PM
Yes, give them something beneficial, then screw them over.
The Stainless Steel Rat
Jun 30 2005, 07:55 PM
QUOTE (Smiley) |
Yes, give them something beneficial, then screw them over. |
Give them...? I don't give them anything. It goes more like this:
Screw them over. Make them earn something beneficial. Screw them over again.
Bigity
Jun 30 2005, 07:56 PM
It's things like this that make me miss grounding.
The Stainless Steel Rat
Jun 30 2005, 08:04 PM
Grounding is....?
Bigity
Jun 30 2005, 08:18 PM
Old SR1 and SR2 rule.
Basically, you can cast spells through astrally active people/foci, and the spell "grounds out" in the physical plane.
So, some corp mage pops on his sustaining focus, and you send a fireball through it, and if the spell defeats the foci in astral combat, the spell then occurs on the physical plane, centered around the foci.
Smiley
Jun 30 2005, 08:32 PM
QUOTE (The Stainless Steel Rat) |
QUOTE (Smiley @ Jun 30 2005, 02:47 PM) | Yes, give them something beneficial, then screw them over. |
Give them...? I don't give them anything. It goes more like this:
Screw them over. Make them earn something beneficial. Screw them over again.
|
Wow. What a badass.
Jrayjoker
Jun 30 2005, 08:56 PM
There's a reason it is called Shadowrun, not shadowwalk.
Smiley
Jun 30 2005, 09:00 PM
Oh, well, that's different. Since it's ShadowRUN, f*ck the players.
[EDIT] I'm done post-jacking. My bad, it's just a topic I feel strongly about.
Jrayjoker
Jun 30 2005, 09:02 PM
Hey, there are six of them and only one GM. Tough rules are only fair. Besides, everything I can do to them, they just sneak around it anyway.
Smiley
Jun 30 2005, 09:05 PM
Biting tongue, biting tongue.
Wait, I have an idea...
Jrayjoker
Jun 30 2005, 09:20 PM
I am not personally out to get the players. They do that all on their own. I mean really, who shoulder rolls across a pool table while it is in use. She deserved the medium stun.
Smiley
Jun 30 2005, 09:43 PM
Yeah, I concur on that one.
Supercilious
Jun 30 2005, 09:52 PM
QUOTE (Jrayjoker) |
I am not personally out to get the players. They do that all on their own. I mean really, who shoulder rolls across a pool table while it is in use. She deserved the medium stun. |
And the bar fight for interrupting the gangers wager.
Smiley
Jun 30 2005, 09:57 PM
Plus, a cue ball up the rectum.
BGMFH
Jul 1 2005, 03:38 AM
Rectum? Nah, too obvious.
SpasticTeapot
Jul 1 2005, 04:33 AM
QUOTE (BGMFH) |
Rectum? Nah, too obvious. |
To quote my (thankfully not late) father:
"Would you like that fitted nasally?"
DocMortand
Jul 1 2005, 04:57 AM
Thank goodness it's a suppository.
Jrayjoker
Jul 1 2005, 12:51 PM
OK, now I feel vindicated. She has been giving me shit about that for 2 years.
bclements
Jul 1 2005, 02:49 PM
QUOTE (BGMFH @ Jun 30 2005, 09:38 PM) |
Rectum? |
Damn near killed 'um!
Jrayjoker
Jul 1 2005, 02:52 PM
Damn, I haven't heard that joke in a long time...
bclements
Jul 1 2005, 04:15 PM
No joke like an old joke. Seemed too good to pass up as well.
Smiley
Jul 1 2005, 05:49 PM
I hate you for thinking of that first.
tisoz
Jul 3 2005, 06:57 AM
I was just thinking...
If the tattoo gets damaged, say by a cut or [bullet]hole it would destroy the spell, would it not?
[edit] Along that line of thought, if the area of the tattoo got bruised, would it negate the spell until the bruise faded? [/edit]
Fortune
Jul 3 2005, 08:20 AM
I've thought about this (it came up in game), and in my opinion neither of those two events would effect the spell. The magic is anchored (not the metamagic) to the tattoo, but is not really limited by it in other ways. I feel that it should take a concerted magical effort to affect the spell.
tisoz
Jul 3 2005, 08:35 AM
I can see that ruling.
I can also see ruling it like a focus being broken. The tattoo is 'broken' so the spell fails. Both had karma invested that is now lost.
Fortune
Jul 3 2005, 08:50 AM
I can understand it being similar to a Focus. I just don't like the idea that a little scratch is all it would take to destroy it. A little scratch wouldn't destroy a ring enchanted as a Sustaining Focus. Now, if the whole tattooed arm was lopped off, then I would definitely rule that the magic was toasted.
tisoz
Jul 3 2005, 12:05 PM
I don't think a scratch would do it either. I was thinking something that seperates the layer of skin were the ink resides. Something deep enough to leave a scar.
Fortune
Jul 3 2005, 01:36 PM
But that's still basically the equivalent of a scratch to an inanimate object. A scratch is something that leaves a mark (scar) on the item. I still don't feel that either a Focus or a Tattoo would lose its magic as a result of this kind of minor injury/mishap.
tisoz
Jul 3 2005, 01:45 PM
I guess it bears asking then, how much damage can a focus take before it doesn't work?
Should a focus have a condition monitor (vehicles and drones do) and it continues to function until it is destroyed? Until it takes half damage?
Can the physical component of a focus be repaired (as a vehicle or drone can be)?
Fortune
Jul 3 2005, 01:55 PM
Add to that the application of Magic. Would the Fix spell repair damage enough to fix a Focus or prevent it losing its Magic? If a scar ruins the Magic of a Tattoo, would a Heal spell remove the scar and thereby prevent that loss?
tisoz
Jul 3 2005, 01:58 PM
Would the heal spell remove the tattoo? Probably not or people would argue it would remove cyber and bio. But then the tattoo didn't cost essence or effect bio index.
Probably giving too many ideas to vindictive GMs.
[edit] Will the Heal spell remove scars? Never had it come up. I've never had a character who was magically healed to 0 boxes of damage get a scar. I never applied scars to partially healed characters either, but I may have to start. I can see scarring being the applied when a character takes a wound effect from deadly damage. [/edit]
Cain
Jul 3 2005, 05:24 PM
Um, guys? You do realize that tattoo quickening can also be done as ritual scarification? In fact, tattooing is a form of deliberately inflicting scar tissue?
How do you scar a scar? I've developed scars on my tattoos, and they still look fine.
Fortune
Jul 4 2005, 03:18 PM
Ritual Scarification still has a specific design. Adding an additional unplanned scar would indeed have an impact on the actual design. Whether it would nullify any Magic is another matter entirely though. I just don't believe that enough damage would be done by a mere scar to ruin the invested Magic.
sanctusmortis
Jul 4 2005, 03:28 PM
There's a Norse legend of someone who got a rune wrong and nearly, IIRC ended the world.
Yeah, small imperfections can be bad in this sort of stuff. I would imagine, though, that an inked tattoo being used for this would be unaffected by any scar that didn't affect the ink- and, as has been mentioned, that is no mean feat.
Frater Inominatus
Jul 4 2005, 11:12 PM
Could you use tattoo magic to affect non-living items? Like placing Armor on a box, or your armor, and what not?
tisoz
Jul 4 2005, 11:28 PM
That would be the
Dikoted metamagic.
Vaevictis
Jul 4 2005, 11:36 PM
You could just argue that in the "tatoo" metamagic, the tatoo is just a ritual mechanism to bind the quickened spell more closely to the target of the spell. In other words, the form of the tattoo isn't what is important, it is merely the presence of the tattoo (or scar) that is important.
That's my understanding anyway. What I would suggest is that simple disfigurement of the tattoo would not suffice to remove the quickened spell. You would need to remove significant portions of the tattoo, definately enough to reduce the surface area covered below the threshold required in mits (100*Force^2), probably more.
In my opinion, at the very least, it would have to be done intentionally, and would be damage on the order of literally skinning that section of the body. Burns to the affected area would not suffice unless they were intentionally applied to remove it; maybe, MAYBE skin grafts would do it.
If I absolutely had to rule on the issue, what I would say is that you cannot remove the tattoo using only mundane means. Someone trying to skin the tattoo off would find that they remove the skin, but the tattoo is magically replaced at a very rapid pace, and that the spell remains in place without change. However, I would say that if someone were to ritually remove the tattoo while someone else magically works at dispelling it, then the spell could be dispelled at the normal force level instead of the tattoo modified 2xForce.
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