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CrystalBlue
We're getting the magic system much more. Step by step, we're getting it. But now, I'm getting people to jump 'special' questions on me. Here's a good one.

"How can I make an Arcane Archer?"

Now, this is on many, many levels. At first, I told him to go adept. That's his best bet, for one, to get better archery. If he went that way, he could initiate after a time and get centering to give him something like zen archery. Now, I asked him what he ment by an arcane archer. Basically, he wants a bow that can create magical arrows to fire out of it, and also can fire normal arrows out of it if he wanted to

In game terms, I need to know how that would work. My first instinct is having him find a magical contact that can get him an enchanted bow. But here's the problem. How do I make it, how much time would it take, how much money, what level contact would it be, and how would he get it done if he had to make it?
Bigity
In the SR universe, there is no way to currently make ranged weapons magical, despite the cover of Shadowrun Companion.

EDIT: That is, if I remember correctly.
mfb
make him a magician's way adept, or even just a mage. make the bow a fetish for his combat spells. that way, he can launch fireballs, manabolts, wreck, and all sorts of fun spells from his bow.

you could anchor a spell to an arrow, i guess, and set the spell to go off when the arrow impacts something. but there's no real advantage to that.
Talia Invierno
Style, mfb, style love.gif

There was an Archer adept in the old Earthdawn system that might suggest some possibilities. If you're willing and able to play fast and loose with the new Elemental Strike adept power, you could probably pull it off with Magic at B priority (adept); otherwise you'll need to make it a Magician's Way adept (A priority) as mfb mentions above.
CrystalBlue
Right. That's the exact picture my friend was looking at when he asked about this. nyahnyah.gif

Well, how about this? How about I ancor a Powerbolt spell to the bow, so if he wanted to, he could shoot it off and use his Archery skill instead to see if it hit? Cause he doesn't want to go mage period. He'd take adept, but he doesn't want to worry about the magic part. Or maybe add some kind of elemental property to the arrow when he knocks it. Just throwing out some ideas to see if it would work.
fionn
One May not be able to make a Ranged Wep Focus, well ya could but thats alot of muchin stuff. Best bet is anchoring the ARROW!! Enchanting an arrow is MUCH easier than a bow. An arrow can be made from scratch with wood radicals and doesn;t really need a point on it, Just stick it in the pencil sharpener for a bit to make it more arrow-dynamic (pun intended).

Enchant the arrow as a reusable anchor focus say force 4 and there ya go. heck if you want real fun enchant it with enhanced aim, or even more fun Death Touch.
fionn
One May not be able to make a Ranged Wep Focus, well ya could but thats alot of muchin stuff. Best bet is anchoring the ARROW!! Enchanting an arrow is MUCH easier than a bow. An arrow can be made from scratch with wood radicals and doesn;t really need a point on it, Just stick it in the pencil sharpener for a bit to make it more arrow-dynamic (pun intended).

Enchant the arrow as a reusable anchor focus say force 4 and there ya go. heck if you want real fun enchant it with enhanced aim, or even more fun Death Touch.
fionn
Sorry For the dual Post, had an error in my transfer stream.
Mugzy
As far as I remember, anchoring a spell to an arrow is no longer possible because it requires an active focus in 3rd Ed. As soon as the focus leaves your person, it deactivates. I'm not absolutely sure on this though; you may want to check Magic in the Shadows to verify it.

I remember this tactic in previous editions though.

As far as an elemental effect, well, the elemental strike power played loosley as stated above, geased to a bow, is about as close are youre going to be able to get.

Seems your friend is thinking a bit too "D&D" or "Diablo"

As far as anchoring a spell to the bow, I suppose that is possible, but a powerbolt may not work as that is a single targeted spell without a pre-delcared target when it is cast into the anchoring focus.

Maybe this will spark someone's memory. I just dont have my books with me..

Nikoli
The SSG cover art doesn't help much either. Phys mage with Gaesed spells to use a Bow focus sounds best bet all around.
fionn
hmm Looks like the Char would have to be an iniatied physical mage to do what I was thinking. Make it an Reusable Anchoring focus, the arrows that is.
Herald of Verjigorm
Arcane Archer: play D&D

Someone who has magic and a bow: mage with a bow

Really good with a bow and some magic: magicians way adept with a bow

Arrows that detonate into 10D6 damage fireballs when they hit: force 10 anchoring focus with a custom variant of fireball that has different staging rules. Yet, it still won't be better than just casting the fireball due to the wonderful waste of space that is the 3rd edition anchoring rules.

Arrows that seek out their target: no, but you can learn enhanced aim and enchant your bow (or your favorite toothpick) as a sustaining focus to avoid the sustaining penalty.

That's not powerful enough: neither is the level 2 archer/bard with aspirations of being an arcane archer, live with it. (this is not meant to compare starting Shadowrun PCs to level 2 D&D PCs, but to indicate that you can't always start with whatever you want, you have to work for much of it)
fionn
Well if he rewrote the spells they would have a MUCH lower drain cost. get the - 1 drain level for very restricted target. The problem with enchanting an arrow tho is you would want it back.
I think the archane archerer is a silly class even in 3.5 DnD it make magic a replacement for pure skill.

if you friend just wants to be a badass archerer jsut dump 4 or 5 dic einto archery and up his str a few times. a bow with high str does about as much damage as a sniper rifle. Oh and be a troll
Talia Invierno
Much though some of you clearly hate it, archer adepts who could do "arcane archer" type stuff existed in Earthdawn, Earthdawn is a part of the SR universe, and therefore effects possible in Earthdawn should be at least potentially possible to achieve using SR effects ... and I'm not even qualifying that with the usual "lower level of magic" argument: the Ghost Dance was supposed to have fast-forwarded the rise of magic significantly, and I'm certain later events in AztlŠn didn't hurt.

If you're running a Magician's Way adept, what's to say a powerbolt couldn't take the visual and tactile form of an arrow? The only difference is the archer would be using Sorcery/spellcasting instead of Projectile Weapons/bow: but within the concept of the character each skill should be at the same rank anyway.

If you're running a straight adept, try this:
  • Distance Strike or Elemental Strike
  • Killing Hands M or S
  • Improved Combat Skill (Unarmed)
Even though it's supposed to be unarmed combat, the effect looks like an arrow: but uses standard unarmed skill and inflicts unarmed damage.

Alternately (this one isn't strict canon, but remains true to spirit):
  • Elemental Strike (in conjunction with arrow)
  • Improved Combat Skill (Projectile Weapons)
Wasn't there also an Attunement metamagic that could work here?
Bandwidthoracle
QUOTE (Talia Invierno)
Much though some of you clearly hate it, archer adepts who could do "arcane archer" type stuff existed in Earthdawn, Earthdawn is a part of the SR universe, and therefore effects possible in Earthdawn should be at least potentially possible to achieve using SR effects ... and I'm not even qualifying that with the usual "lower level of magic" argument: the Ghost Dance was supposed to have fast-forwarded the rise of magic significantly, and I'm certain later events in AztlŠn didn't hurt.

I thought they offically broke all the earthdawn links? Or alternativly, they all ended with the end of one of the fiction books. Either way Earthdawn is gonna be gone in 4th, so I plan on using it to justify a long term character. A short term however, it would work fine I think.
prettz
Your best bet, if the player does not want to go Magician Way, is to use the Elemental Strike and Distance Strike Powers as a base to create your own power. I mean if they can transmit unarmed attack power over distance they should be able to transmit archery power.
Bigity
I don't think they can sever the ED links. They can stop making references to them, but they are part of the same world just the same. There's too much already there to simple retcon the whole thing.

It will be more of a gradual, everyone forgets about them IRL kind of thing.
Talia Invierno
Last I heard, Laughing Man and Wordsmyth were still posting in the shadowtalk.
The Stainless Steel Rat
QUOTE (mfb)
make him a magician's way adept, or even just a mage. make the bow a fetish...

This is just how I handled it in one of my games, but I went a step further and had the mage take the Geas of "Obvious Spellcasting" or whatever the exact term is, and had all of his spells manifest on the physical plane as arrows.

(This lead to some comedy - The mage, casting a Heal spell at a fallen NPC, draws a bow back point blank range and says "Now hold very still...")
Nikoli
ROFL, now that's a funny scene
Bandwidthoracle
QUOTE (Talia Invierno)
Last I heard, Laughing Man and Wordsmyth were still posting in the shadowtalk.

I really like my Harliquin (sp?) was a crazy hobo mage theory, but I'm pretty sure there are similarities could be explained in a way that doesn't invovle ED, which is how I think they're gonna take it.
Synner
QUOTE (Bandwidthoracle @ Jul 11 2005, 09:23 PM)
QUOTE (Talia Invierno @ Jul 11 2005, 02:11 PM)
Last I heard, Laughing Man and Wordsmyth were still posting in the shadowtalk.

I really like my Harliquin (sp?) was a crazy hobo mage theory, but I'm pretty sure there are similarities could be explained in a way that doesn't invovle ED, which is how I think they're gonna take it.

FanPro has announced there won't be significant changes to the setting except those following from the events in System Failure and naturally from the 5 years worth of events that fall between SR3 and SR4. Where are you getting all this stuff that the ED/Fourth World links will be further reduced from what they are today?
Bandwidthoracle
QUOTE (Synner)
FanPro has announced there won't be significant changes to the setting except those following from the events in System Failure. Where are you getting all this stuff that the ED/Fourth World links will be further reduced from what they are today?

It had to do with them selling off Earthdawn, I'll try to find it again, this might take some time
strangeling
QUOTE (Talia Invierno)
Much though some of you clearly hate it, archer adepts who could do "arcane archer" type stuff existed in Earthdawn, Earthdawn is a part of the SR universe, and therefore effects possible in Earthdawn should be at least potentially possible to achieve using SR effects ... and I'm not even qualifying that with the usual "lower level of magic" argument: the Ghost Dance was supposed to have fast-forwarded the rise of magic significantly, and I'm certain later events in AztlŠn didn't hurt.


As much as Earthdawn may have had the ability to create an arcane archer, one would ask why one would want to do that in SR. I mean, an enchanted gun would be much more effective. A bow won't do that much against armor and has very short range compared even to a pistol. I mean, a troll might be able to drive an arrow pretty deep even through armor (provided the arrow can handle it), but wouldn't that troll be better empolyed as a heavy gunner if they're so strong? It's kind of a cool character idea, I like the quirky kinds of characters myself, but if you want to play a game where an archer is truly effective it might be better to play the old Earthdawn or D&D.

Plus, if Magic got as powerful as I think you're implying, I think it would unbalance the game quite a bit. I like playing the cyberpunk/magic mix that is SR. I'd hate to see it go to being a purely fantasy thing.
Bandwidthoracle
QUOTE
And for the last few years, FanPro's official stance has been to ignore the actual Earthdwan products. Yes, there's a 4th world that bears a striking resemblance to the Earthdawn setting. But FanPro isn't bound to the material. So if they want to introduce a Great Dragon that's been around for millions of years, but doesn't match up with ED, they'll just shrug and go "oh well".

And sure, they'll do things like what they did with Ghostwalker... throw in an never-quite-outright stated tie in... But you don;t have to be familiar with ED to use Ghostwalker. Any necessary info is given within the SR material. Anything else is just fluff for the hardcore junkies to go research.

So if LRG decides to kill off the dragon that becomes Ghostwalker... they're free to do so, and Fanpro won't try and retcon it, because they're not tied tgether at all.

Also as a note, this was something FASA had implemented prior to them shutting down.

Bull


It would appear that it has been offical for some time that although similar the ED world is not part of the shadowrun world.
Edward
If you wished you could allow a bow with a unique enchantment based on a free spirits wealth power (making the bow requires the spirit to be bound using its true name) to create arrows, it could only create normal arrows. The section on unique enchantments is entirely at GM discretions but theoretically they can do anything.

I advise against allowing the arrows to be magical once they leave the bow as that would be bypassing one of the limits magical researchers have been working on for decades

There are a few spells that could be useful to a bow using mage. Improve aim has issue with resistance but can be a useful spell, unless you going to be working at very close range I recommend the extended range version (for +1 drain level but you wont be casting it often) for the sake of having magical bow you could make that the sustaining focus for that spell). Increase strength would not be all that useful as the str min on the bow is used to determine damage not your current strength and you want to meet the STR min when your spells are down. Combat sense could also be useful.

Making arrows that are expendable anchoring foci and setting them up to cast powerbolt looks good on the surface but remember you still need to make a casting test (dice allocated at time of setting up focus) and you still need to make a drain resistance test at time of firing. Not the most practical in my opinion, especially as it requires a metameric

I donít know if they got it right but the description of the healing potions would suggest that an anchoring focus can work while not in contact with the caster

If you take enchanting as a skill then you would be able to make your own expendable anchoring foci at vastly reduced cost and accept there loss, but buying them is far to expensive.

Edward
Czar Eggbert
Personally I would go with a variation of the distance strike/killing hands option, maybe up the costs by .25 or .50 on each power to represent the extended area of effect, and geas it to only work with a bow. It not to far outside the realm of believability when you look at what the killing hands or distance strike powers do. It's a style thing. I'd use the same rules for distance strike, no +power as it is not an arrow, and you are there.



-The Eggman
Cain
Actually, distance strike/killing hands with a Talisman (bow) limitation on the distance strike would work just fine. You don't even need to geas the killing hands bit.
hyzmarca
Ally spirit with a bow form. It is really be best posibility. It doesn't even requie an archery skill. Just give it the right spells and the skills it needs to shoot an arow with itself.

Also, you can dikote it and have sex with it. Perfect for long and boring runs.
Clyde
Nobody's mentioned this, so I thought I'd throw it in: have him follow a unique magical path. Kind of like the psionicist, only stranger. Make him a sixth world oddity - current theory can't quite explain how he does it. "Are those arrows really anchoring foci? But he's not initiated and so can't know anchoring." Leave the theory of it open. This way you can have every magical threat in the book out looking for him.

I think it could be good for your story - the player gets what he wants while you have endless hooks to throw at every plot. Everyone from corps, to initiate groups to great dragons may want in on this. At the same time, you might have a mysterious NPC arcane archer get involved from time to time. Maybe he learned in some remote mountain village that has since disappeared. Make sure he pays priority "A" for the privilege and doesn't get access to full adept or spellcasting abilities. If at any time his powers get too out of control for you to handle - take the character out of play. Have him extracted or wasted or have a free spirit make off with his special bow.

Just don't bend over backwards trying to shoehorn the SR mechanics into this - there's no really good way to do it. Instead, just accept that magic in the sixth world isn't a stable, predictable force. That'll give you a butt ton of leeway to do your own weird magical effects without player complaint - after all if there are arcane archers who aren't described in the book yet can be played as PCs then who knows what else is out there. Keep magic mysterious, it's worth the extra effort.
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