one of my players handed me her new character sheet for a decker and listed under contacts is a level 2 (buddy) contact: a dolphin decker like in that book by gibson, kinda. in my game, i require players to flesh out level 2 contacts so i can use them in a game but she looked at me and asked how she would make a dolphin npc.
i thought about telling her to pick another level 2 contact but i thought about it and thought a dolphin would be cool in the game. than i thought if a dolphin would naturally have otaku-like abilities. has anyone had this come up in one of their games??? gibson's book is pretty popular in this genre and the movie wasn't that bad.
any advice would be greatly appreciated!!!
Full Version: stupid question
No, a dolphin would indeed have no basis for natural Otaku abilities. They tend not to end up in the environments that generate them. Then again, Dr. Halberstam may have been hard at work again.
~J
~J
Non-metahuman sentients have some difficulty using the Martix because of differences in brain structure. However, no one really knows what makes an Otaku, except, possibly, Deus and some other AIs.
Just make it an Awakened dolphin that was a victim of a corporate experiment. Kidnapped from his or her home, surgically modiffied, magical ability was burned out due to poor cyberware compatibility.
It would make a nice angry at the world character.
Just make it an Awakened dolphin that was a victim of a corporate experiment. Kidnapped from his or her home, surgically modiffied, magical ability was burned out due to poor cyberware compatibility.
It would make a nice angry at the world character.
Actually, a good reason not to allow this is because allowing it is an unclaimed bequest in Dunkie's Will.
~J
~J
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| Actually, a good reason not to allow this is because allowing it is an unclaimed bequest in Dunkie's Will. ~J |
Dunkie's will specifies that the interface must be "efficient and effective".
"Out of 2325 experimental subjects, #1172 is the only one that didn't go insane and commit suicide. He just murdered his handlers and sexualy violated their corpses before escaping into the ocean. We consider our work to be a great success" Doesn't quite fit the bill.
Little worried about how a dolphin would "sexually violate" someone....
| QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0 @ Jul 16 2005, 02:14 AM) |
| Little worried about how a dolphin would "sexually violate" someone.... |
Well, it helps if they are in the water. If they are then mostly the usual ways. Captive male dolphins have been known to attemt to rape people who swim with them. People rub the dolphin's belly in the wrong spot thinking its cute and the dolphin sees that as a request for sexual service.
Dolphin pensis's are also prehensile when they are not aroused, giving the ability to do many interesting things.
My first instinct is to say no
Assuming somebody managed to get a dolphin datajack to work (even if it was only one of hundreds attempted) there are some practical issues. A cyber deck will not appreciate submersion in water, especially not salt, even is the optronics don’t short out it will damage the plugs. And a dolphin lacks the appendages to manipulate a jack and a RAS override activating in its natural environment would result in drowning. The likely solution would be a radio data jack, a handler to maintain the cyber deck and a specially made shelf to lie on while decking, this of cause implies continuing captivity.
I would say that a dolphin has the same chance of being an otaku as a metahuman, this means you can decide he is or is not at your discretion. If he is an otaku having been in the aforementioned experiment he could have escaped and access the matrix using his radio link but there is still the issue of drowning and defense of the meet body while in the matrix.
Edward
Assuming somebody managed to get a dolphin datajack to work (even if it was only one of hundreds attempted) there are some practical issues. A cyber deck will not appreciate submersion in water, especially not salt, even is the optronics don’t short out it will damage the plugs. And a dolphin lacks the appendages to manipulate a jack and a RAS override activating in its natural environment would result in drowning. The likely solution would be a radio data jack, a handler to maintain the cyber deck and a specially made shelf to lie on while decking, this of cause implies continuing captivity.
I would say that a dolphin has the same chance of being an otaku as a metahuman, this means you can decide he is or is not at your discretion. If he is an otaku having been in the aforementioned experiment he could have escaped and access the matrix using his radio link but there is still the issue of drowning and defense of the meet body while in the matrix.
Edward
| QUOTE (Edward) |
| My first instinct is to say no Assuming somebody managed to get a dolphin datajack to work (even if it was only one of hundreds attempted) there are some practical issues. A cyber deck will not appreciate submersion in water, especially not salt, even is the optronics don’t short out it will damage the plugs. And a dolphin lacks the appendages to manipulate a jack and a RAS override activating in its natural environment would result in drowning. The likely solution would be a radio data jack, a handler to maintain the cyber deck and a specially made shelf to lie on while decking, this of cause implies continuing captivity. I would say that a dolphin has the same chance of being an otaku as a metahuman, this means you can decide he is or is not at your discretion. If he is an otaku having been in the aforementioned experiment he could have escaped and access the matrix using his radio link but there is still the issue of drowning and defense of the meet body while in the matrix. Edward |
Cyberdecks can be waterproofed. All you really need is a custom case. However, for practicial reasons, a dolphin decker would be better off with a cranial deck or one mounted in a cybertail. This elimiates the need to carry it around or manipulate a datajack.
As for drowning, dolphins do sleep. However, they only sleep with half of their brains at a time. This fact alone makes RAS rather problematic even to impliment, but it also suggests that a dolphin could do without it. Metahuman deckers don't need the RAS override. However, they suffer +4 TN penalities without it. A dolphin, having the ability to shut off half of its brain while the other half remain conscious, may be able to experience two realities without any penality.
At the very least, a dolphin with RAS override would be aware enough to know that it needs to breath and would be able to reach the surface. Deckers jacked in are still aware of injuries to their meat bodies and can still act in the real world, albeit at a +8 penalty. An action that doesn't require a skill test anyway would be just as easy with RAS override.
| QUOTE (hyzmarca) |
| Dolphin pensis's are also prehensile when they are not aroused, giving the ability to do many interesting things. |
it worries me that you know this
| QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0) | ||
it worries me that you know this |
My Totem is good to me.
The sleeping with half a brain thing is a good point. I did consider a cranial deck but not the cyber tail, either would have the problem of building it to sute. I would expect any corporation designing data jacks for dolphins to leave of the development of other wear until the mind mashie interface was stable, during development the dolphins can just cope with ether radio decks of having a human or even robot) tech insert there data jack. Although if the port was located on eth belly the prehensile penis would solve that issue carying an external deck would still be an issue.
Another issue is where to get stats for a dolphin.
Edward
Another issue is where to get stats for a dolphin.
Edward
| QUOTE (Edward) |
| Another issue is where to get stats for a dolphin. Edward |
Storn Dolphins are in the Critters PDF, they are just Awakened versions of regular dolphins. Take away the magicial powers and the stats are usable for a mundane dolphin.'
Of course, there is something deliciously evil about making it a burned out Storm Dolphin, considering that they are activly violent toward metahumans and are known to sink small ships using their powers.
Mmmm....... brutaly violent and sexually deviant cetacean matrix terrorist.
If the dolphin is fitted with a belt, which has two tool using arms on it, then it can do stuff itself. It simply uses the arms by datajack, like we'd drive a car or use a forklift.
I think using the Otaku rules for it would be the easiest. Then just pour on Karma.
Its other contacts might not even know its a dolphin. It might order stuff to be dropped into the sea in sealed caskets. People would think its some paranoid fragger who dives in after it later.. and it sorta is, isn't it?
I think using the Otaku rules for it would be the easiest. Then just pour on Karma.
Its other contacts might not even know its a dolphin. It might order stuff to be dropped into the sea in sealed caskets. People would think its some paranoid fragger who dives in after it later.. and it sorta is, isn't it?
Now that I think about it, a dolphin would need a custom deck or, at least, a heavily customized ASSIST converter.
Even Otaku ned an ASSIST converter to translate matrix data. I very much doubt that standard metahuman simsense would be very usable for a being whose primary sense is sonar. There would have to be a device to convert the metahuman sensory data to a dolphin-friendly format.
Even Otaku ned an ASSIST converter to translate matrix data. I very much doubt that standard metahuman simsense would be very usable for a being whose primary sense is sonar. There would have to be a device to convert the metahuman sensory data to a dolphin-friendly format.
Which really makes it nearly crucial that the dolphin is an Otaku.
| QUOTE (hyzmarca) | ||||
My Totem is good to me. |
A Google shaman?
I would disallow it because he's blatantly ripping off of known materialf in a ridiculous way. tell him to come up with something original. Like a guy with a detachable robotic arm named jack. that's the ticket.
Hey, did Renraku Arcology have an aquarium? If so, that would the perfet excuse for a matrix dolphin. It would also be the erfect excuse for giving it cybertentecles and mounting a firelance on its head.
Cybertentacles would be great weapons in the water and could provide some mobility on land, as well. Because a dolphin in a trech coat walking on his cybertentacles is cool contact to meet in a bar.
He can always claim it was SURGE. No one would argue with him and his combat laser.
Also, he should collect antique German beer steins. I don't know why, but he should.
Cybertentacles would be great weapons in the water and could provide some mobility on land, as well. Because a dolphin in a trech coat walking on his cybertentacles is cool contact to meet in a bar.
He can always claim it was SURGE. No one would argue with him and his combat laser.
Also, he should collect antique German beer steins. I don't know why, but he should.
Well, I suppose it's time I could add a word or two.
Dolphins would not make ideal deckers. The need to jack in eliminates their usefulness in most applications-underwater arcologies, submarine hunting, etc.
Therefore, it only makes sense for dolphins to be riggers. Dolphins are particularly suited to the more instinctual use of rigger-gear, and their sonar abilities can be capably mimiced by drones to prevent undue confusion. With the proper cyberware and equipment, a dolphin can tap into the wireless networks of other riggers, or have their crab-drones crawl up to an arkoblock security outlet and tap into the rigged security system. They make ideal mobile signal booster, ECM, ECCM and ED platforms; and may also make suitable scouts, mappers and mine-sweepers. "Stealth" dolphins may even be equipped with specialized suits to lower their thermal signature...and what metahuman sonar listener will pay attention to one more dolphin cry?
Furthermore, a dolphin "leader" whose pod is equiped with snake-eyes and BattleTac gear becomes a fearsome underwater security force, able to launch three-dimensional assaults against intruders and command an impressive picture of the battlefield with conjoined sonar. In the event of a disabling jammer-strike, a dolphin security pod could switch off their link and still capably defend themselves using their natural abilities.
Naturally, the militaries and corporations in charge of rigger-dolphins will need to find some way of maintaining obedience...drug addiction would seem to be preferable, as psychotropic conditioning would be problomatic to develop.
Of course, things might change when Augmented Reality comes into play...
Dolphins would not make ideal deckers. The need to jack in eliminates their usefulness in most applications-underwater arcologies, submarine hunting, etc.
Therefore, it only makes sense for dolphins to be riggers. Dolphins are particularly suited to the more instinctual use of rigger-gear, and their sonar abilities can be capably mimiced by drones to prevent undue confusion. With the proper cyberware and equipment, a dolphin can tap into the wireless networks of other riggers, or have their crab-drones crawl up to an arkoblock security outlet and tap into the rigged security system. They make ideal mobile signal booster, ECM, ECCM and ED platforms; and may also make suitable scouts, mappers and mine-sweepers. "Stealth" dolphins may even be equipped with specialized suits to lower their thermal signature...and what metahuman sonar listener will pay attention to one more dolphin cry?
Furthermore, a dolphin "leader" whose pod is equiped with snake-eyes and BattleTac gear becomes a fearsome underwater security force, able to launch three-dimensional assaults against intruders and command an impressive picture of the battlefield with conjoined sonar. In the event of a disabling jammer-strike, a dolphin security pod could switch off their link and still capably defend themselves using their natural abilities.
Naturally, the militaries and corporations in charge of rigger-dolphins will need to find some way of maintaining obedience...drug addiction would seem to be preferable, as psychotropic conditioning would be problomatic to develop.
Of course, things might change when Augmented Reality comes into play...
| QUOTE (hyzmarca) | ||
Well, it helps if they are in the water. If they are then mostly the usual ways. Captive male dolphins have been known to attemt to rape people who swim with them. People run the dolphin's belly in the wrong spot thinking its cute and the dolphin sees that as a request for sexual service. Dolphin pensis's are also prehensile when they are not aroused, giving the ability to do many interesting things. |
And I thought sharks were scary.
Wasn't there something called a "reality filter" or similar that reinterpreted the matrix feed to the decker's appropriate metaphor? A dolphin would no doubt be more comfortable in the matrix if everything is presented in aquatic metaphors.
Yeah, until the Black IC becomes a kraken or the tunafish datafiles turn black and rotten from databombs...
what are we talking about here, blue planet?
there one can play uplifted dolphin and orca, with drones and more.
like say envision a orca with a strap on weapon rack of torpedos and sasers (sonic "lasers") and flanked by weapon carrying drones under his command.
lets just say that nasty does not even start to cover it
there one can play uplifted dolphin and orca, with drones and more.
like say envision a orca with a strap on weapon rack of torpedos and sasers (sonic "lasers") and flanked by weapon carrying drones under his command.
lets just say that nasty does not even start to cover it
Orca Gunbunny.
Trolls go home.
Trolls go home.
| QUOTE (weblife @ Jul 16 2005, 06:32 PM) |
| Orca Gunbunny. Trolls go home. |
You misspelled "fishing".
~J
| QUOTE (zenpoetsix) |
| one of my players handed me her new character sheet for a decker and listed under contacts is a level 2 (buddy) contact: a dolphin decker like in that book by gibson, kinda. in my game, i require players to flesh out level 2 contacts so i can use them in a game but she looked at me and asked how she would make a dolphin npc. i thought about telling her to pick another level 2 contact but i thought about it and thought a dolphin would be cool in the game. than i thought if a dolphin would naturally have otaku-like abilities. has anyone had this come up in one of their games??? gibson's book is pretty popular in this genre and the movie wasn't that bad. any advice would be greatly appreciated!!! |
Does he want Gorilla City as well? Maybe cyber ninja kangaroo flurries? Or what about Hypnotoads? Or giant radioactive moths?
The otaku are on the far left field of shadowrun. They make little to no sence. They are at least to me less scifi than magic is.
Decking dolphins are to cyberpunk what Jar Jar is to Star Wars. You don't need them. They do not add anything to your story, but they sure make you look stupid.
So, you are taking two bad ideas and put them together, why?
So let's say that this thing is in your world. Why haven't any of the Megas grabbed him up and studied the shit out it? The better it would be the more buzz it would make and the more likely a mega would put more resources into hunting this down. So, even if you have the uber leet fish, how would it not be tracked down and in a corp test tube?
Note that popular doens't mean good. Look at US TV.....
Because, like, actually backing up your opinion when you insult everyone who happens to like Otaku is just something that you're totally too cool for!
~J
~J
Backing up an opinion of test (as apposed to an opinion of fact) is largely imposable.
Saying Otaku are stupid is like saying brustle sprouts are yucky. I don’t think there is any way to hold a reasoned debate on the issue.
Otaku are defiantly inexplicable. I find there powers harder to understand than magic. This is not necessarily a problem. Your not supposed to understand them and in such cases I can (begrudgingly) accept things I don’t understand.
I do however not like otaku on an unreasoned level. I find them annoying. I also wont eat brustle sprouts.
Edward
Saying Otaku are stupid is like saying brustle sprouts are yucky. I don’t think there is any way to hold a reasoned debate on the issue.
Otaku are defiantly inexplicable. I find there powers harder to understand than magic. This is not necessarily a problem. Your not supposed to understand them and in such cases I can (begrudgingly) accept things I don’t understand.
I do however not like otaku on an unreasoned level. I find them annoying. I also wont eat brustle sprouts.
Edward
A fundamental misunderstanding of the process. It is entirely possible to have a discussion about what exactly is disliked about Brussels sprouts, including whether the disliked aspect is the taste (and if so what about it, bitterness or so on), the texture, whether or not it is possible that the dislike has more to do with overcooking than the natural flavour of the sprout, so on and soforth.
~J
~J
Well as you (Cynic project) were being a prick about it I will not be polite. You ever heard of the Underground? keeping things secret? the whole point could be to have a level 2 buddie thats secret needs protrecting, personally I dont see the Dolphine out in the open see all the time, I see it having a tank in a warhouse on the docks so it can lay low so to speak, I dont see it with cyber limbs or such I think Ancient Histories post was one of the most informative and you notice how he managed to post with out being a prick like (Cynic project) someone asked a question but because you think its boaring or silly that excusses your narrow mindedness? I think not. I think a level 2 buddie thats a Otaku Dolphin has so many possabilities and adventure hooks, how does it get repairs? gets buddie to find parts...I see the warhouse as one of at Least 3 bolt holes that the creature can access and lets face it, they dont need to be in the same city.Even if the corps put in a lot of cred to locate the critter assuming they even know about it how will they tell it apart from any other cyber Dolphine, furthermore I imagine, just for kicks the Dolphine wont be stupid and make its presence known every chance it gets.Your name Cynic project does not excuse arsehole behaviour either, thats like me calling myself a prick and....well acting like I am towards you and thinking that made it ok.Cyber Otaku Dolphine I think its a great idea.
zenpoetsix:
As the saying goes, "There are *NO* 'stupid questions'; there are only 'stupid *ANSWERS*'."
My point is that your question is not stupid, as long as it serves you a purpose--in this case, getting the information you need.
My apologies if I have inadvertently offended anyone with my opening statement.
That was *NOT* my intention.
--Foreigner
As the saying goes, "There are *NO* 'stupid questions'; there are only 'stupid *ANSWERS*'."
My point is that your question is not stupid, as long as it serves you a purpose--in this case, getting the information you need.
My apologies if I have inadvertently offended anyone with my opening statement.
That was *NOT* my intention.
--Foreigner
| QUOTE (Cynic project) |
| Does he want Gorilla City as well? Maybe cyber ninja kangaroo flurries? Or what about Hypnotoads? Or giant radioactive moths? The otaku are on the far left field of shadowrun. They make little to no sence. They are at least to me less scifi than magic is. Decking dolphins are to cyberpunk what Jar Jar is to Star Wars. You don't need them. They do not add anything to your story, but they sure make you look stupid. So, you are taking two bad ideas and put them together, why? So let's say that this thing is in your world. Why haven't any of the Megas grabbed him up and studied the shit out it? The better it would be the more buzz it would make and the more likely a mega would put more resources into hunting this down. So, even if you have the uber leet fish, how would it not be tracked down and in a corp test tube? Note that popular doens't mean good. Look at US TV..... |
I do not see why he cannot have an otaku dolphin.
They make as much sense as insect spirit para-animals and mutated dragons.
Decking dolphins are to cyberpunk what Yoda is to Star Wars. They are classic. I think it adds to the story and it sure makes you look humble.
So, you are taking 2 good ideas and put them together, that's nice.
What mega is going to study this? How much money is it going to make out it?
Note that what is good doesn't mean you have to like it. Look at US TV.....
| QUOTE (toturi) |
| I do not see why he cannot have an otaku dolphin. They make as much sense as insect spirit para-animals and mutated dragons. |
No, really htey don't. See Dragons and insect spirits are magical. Otaku aren't.
So, I can buy that things that can't normally happen can happen to magicall things. I can totally buy it. because if magic acted in a pure scintific manor, it wouldn't be magic, now would it?
But by saying that Otaku aren't magic, they set them to a higher level of reasoning. Otaku do things that are magic in everything but name. Right down to the fact there is a set age limit on them and some how their made decking spirits don't need to keep SOTA.That's right, cause no one besides those working for with them knows shit about them, and clearly no Mega could have some working for them. That would be logical.
So, yea I can tottaly buy crazy magical shit. It's magic.
| QUOTE (Cynic project) |
| See Dragons and insect spirits are magical. Otaku aren't. |
Yeah, because, like, there are never any debates about that because they absolutely spelled it out. "OTAKU ARE NOT MAGICAL AND NOTHING ABOUT THEM COMES ABOUT AS A RESULT OF THE AWAKENING", page 34, Matrix. Uh-huh, definitely.
~J
still, it may happen that if a young enoigh brain is exposed to some new kind of stimuli it may well adapt to del with it, including being able to speak cyberdeck 
hell, didnt the text cyberpunk talk about kids speaking "computer" to a degree that their parents cant? now take that tought and run with it and you have a sr otaku
hell, didnt the text cyberpunk talk about kids speaking "computer" to a degree that their parents cant? now take that tought and run with it and you have a sr otaku
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) | ||
Yeah, because, like, there are never any debates about that because they absolutely spelled it out. "OTAKU ARE NOT MAGICAL AND NOTHING ABOUT THEM COMES ABOUT AS A RESULT OF THE AWAKENING", page 34, Matrix. Uh-huh, definitely. ~J |
Nope, but AIs can make them, and you say AIs ar magical then yuo may as well be playing D&D.
| QUOTE (Cynic project @ Jul 17 2005, 11:48 AM) |
| Nope, but AIs can make them, and you say AIs ar magical then yuo may as well be playing D&D. |
Oh my, and what exactly happened to AI-created "Otaku" after Deus left?
Just because your "deck" is running remotely doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
~J
I look upon whats written here...
And I can only conclude, that some among us, have heavy bars physically implanted in their brains, barring all fantastic thought.
Why is it anethema to you, that science/otaku can create "magical" effects?
By all means, you cannot prove, that a genemodified dolphin, or an awakened subspecies, cannot have an intelligence and natural inclination toward decking. That resembles the powers of the metahuman Otaku. - If not in fact being Otaku.
So stop the whining already. Its not like the character concept is original, or that it is not balanced in so many ways, that it will be for flavor more than anything else. Aswelll as a host of adventure hooks at the GMs leisure.
I say, let there be dolphins in the Matrix!
I bet you can even find ill inspired Deckers who's personas are Dolphins. The real dolphins disdain them as posers, and when revealed they are ridiculed in their circles.
Madness must reign the stifled mind.
And I can only conclude, that some among us, have heavy bars physically implanted in their brains, barring all fantastic thought.
Why is it anethema to you, that science/otaku can create "magical" effects?
By all means, you cannot prove, that a genemodified dolphin, or an awakened subspecies, cannot have an intelligence and natural inclination toward decking. That resembles the powers of the metahuman Otaku. - If not in fact being Otaku.
So stop the whining already. Its not like the character concept is original, or that it is not balanced in so many ways, that it will be for flavor more than anything else. Aswelll as a host of adventure hooks at the GMs leisure.
I say, let there be dolphins in the Matrix!
I bet you can even find ill inspired Deckers who's personas are Dolphins. The real dolphins disdain them as posers, and when revealed they are ridiculed in their circles.
Madness must reign the stifled mind.
| QUOTE (Cynic project) | ||||
Nope, but AIs can make them, and you say AIs ar magical then yuo may as well be playing D&D. |
Any mundane who stayed awake through spell design 101 can make a useable powerbolt formula.
You don't have to be magical to make something that relates to magic. You just have to have the knowledge. AIs may not create Otaku by their own power so much as point the Otaku's minds toward a power they possess.
Heh. In my games I've always considered Otaku magically-active kids that have had their potential warped by the stimulus they're exposed to. If I can accept cyberzombies I can accept a fitful Awakening upon the Path of the Nerd.
On Otaku Dolphins: ...my first question would be "Why?"
If he wants the otaku dolphin contact because it's unique, it's time to nurture that spark into less insane character concepts. We were all there once. If he wants it because "it's cool," well, tastes vary. It sure as hell wouldn't fit in my game, but if you think dolphin deckers have merit, go nuts.
My ruling would be that even if there was decker dolphins running around (and I'd be hesitant to say that any creature that operates on different primary stimuli could comprehend the Matrix), nobody is wiring up kid-dolphins to the Matrix. If on the farthest side of probability someone was, there's not enough of them that are potentially-Awakened for an AI (or whatever dark force lurks behind the Deep Ressonance) to notice.
And if, for some unspeakably improbable reason, the power behind the Deep Ressonance did notice the dolphin, it'd laugh to itself and go drink a few digital brewskies, telling all the other deus ex machina about how hillarous it'd be to have a dolphin worshipper. They'd all then get drunk-equivalent and go raid an arcology.
On Otaku Dolphins: ...my first question would be "Why?"
If he wants the otaku dolphin contact because it's unique, it's time to nurture that spark into less insane character concepts. We were all there once. If he wants it because "it's cool," well, tastes vary. It sure as hell wouldn't fit in my game, but if you think dolphin deckers have merit, go nuts.
My ruling would be that even if there was decker dolphins running around (and I'd be hesitant to say that any creature that operates on different primary stimuli could comprehend the Matrix), nobody is wiring up kid-dolphins to the Matrix. If on the farthest side of probability someone was, there's not enough of them that are potentially-Awakened for an AI (or whatever dark force lurks behind the Deep Ressonance) to notice.
And if, for some unspeakably improbable reason, the power behind the Deep Ressonance did notice the dolphin, it'd laugh to itself and go drink a few digital brewskies, telling all the other deus ex machina about how hillarous it'd be to have a dolphin worshipper. They'd all then get drunk-equivalent and go raid an arcology.
| QUOTE (Cynic project @ Jul 17 2005, 04:24 PM) |
| No, really htey don't. See Dragons and insect spirits are magical. Otaku aren't. |
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Arthur C. Clarke
C'mon, guys and gals, we've been through this before on the otaku vs. magic dispute. It doesn't matter if they're a parallel development that is mistaken for magic, if they're a really funky type of adept, or if the writers just decided to repeat the same rules to make things easier on Matrix monkeys.
Now, as to the otaku dolphins...
Shadowrun, more so than the real world, accepts the presence of other sentient life on this planet Earth. The degree to which that intelligence is comparable, compatible and recognizable to our own varies. Dragons, certainly, are intelligent, as are sasquatch and certain other paranormal animals such as naga. There is evidence that elephants and dolphins (among other cetaceans) may also be sentient (at least to a degree).
Because of Dunkelzahn's bequests, there is a high probability that dolphins, (non-metahuman) satyrs, dragons and elephants are being fitted with datajacks, and may eventually access the Matrix.
The question, then is whether the potential to be an otaku lies solely in metahuman species, or if other species are capable of the same (or similiar) advancement. This is important, because players bitch (loud, long and often) about how often metahumans get the shaft. What normal, mortal magician can really compete with a great dragon or immortal elf for shear mystic might?
No-one.
But as far as anyone knows, no dragon or IE has ever become an otaku (well, except for Leo and I know how much y'all hated that). People realistically don't want to diminish metahumans by spreading out their apparently unique capability to other species. I understand that.
<pops the balloon>
So what? There's nothing wrong with a dolphin decker (or rigger, as I pointed out). It's not like a dolphin otaku has some greater advantage (well, unless you count the prehensile penis, that's gotta be worth another point of Charisma).
What, you think you can't take on Flipper?
Now, as to the otaku dolphins...
Shadowrun, more so than the real world, accepts the presence of other sentient life on this planet Earth. The degree to which that intelligence is comparable, compatible and recognizable to our own varies. Dragons, certainly, are intelligent, as are sasquatch and certain other paranormal animals such as naga. There is evidence that elephants and dolphins (among other cetaceans) may also be sentient (at least to a degree).
Because of Dunkelzahn's bequests, there is a high probability that dolphins, (non-metahuman) satyrs, dragons and elephants are being fitted with datajacks, and may eventually access the Matrix.
The question, then is whether the potential to be an otaku lies solely in metahuman species, or if other species are capable of the same (or similiar) advancement. This is important, because players bitch (loud, long and often) about how often metahumans get the shaft. What normal, mortal magician can really compete with a great dragon or immortal elf for shear mystic might?
No-one.
But as far as anyone knows, no dragon or IE has ever become an otaku (well, except for Leo and I know how much y'all hated that). People realistically don't want to diminish metahumans by spreading out their apparently unique capability to other species. I understand that.
<pops the balloon>
So what? There's nothing wrong with a dolphin decker (or rigger, as I pointed out). It's not like a dolphin otaku has some greater advantage (well, unless you count the prehensile penis, that's gotta be worth another point of Charisma).
What, you think you can't take on Flipper?
| QUOTE (Ancient History) |
| So what? There's nothing wrong with a dolphin decker (or rigger, as I pointed out). It's not like a dolphin otaku has some greater advantage (well, unless you count the prehensile penis, that's gotta be worth another point of Charisma). What, you think you can't take on Flipper? |
If Flipper is sentient and shares the same techno-intelligo-whatevero trait that allows someone to be an Otaku, then sure, there's no game-logic reason why it can't happen.
However, as one of my players ends up reminding me continually, there's a sharp disconnection between game-logic and setting-logic.
What's the profit to the Megacorporations to invest millions, if not billions, to bring dolphins to the 21st century? Dunklezahn's will stops at datajacks and human life is cheap.
What's the profit to AIs/whatever to indoctrinate Flipper?
What sort of NPC has both the vast authority to make these decisions and will treat the whole scenario as anything more than a joke?
All these questions can, of course, be answered in a way that's supportive of Technoflipper. That's the joy of being a GM. But due to how I interpret the setting and how I'd answer those questions, Flipper is going to stay in Seaworld.
Or to put it another way, I'd probably stab the player in the face for asking before I'd allow it.
| QUOTE (Conskill @ Jul 17 2005, 07:03 PM) |
| If Flipper is sentient and shares the same techno-intelligo-whatevero trait that allows someone to be an Otaku, then sure, there's no game-logic reason why it can't happen. However, as one of my players ends up reminding me continually, there's a sharp disconnection between game-logic and setting-logic. What's the profit to the Megacorporations to invest millions, if not billions, to bring dolphins to the 21st century? Dunklezahn's will stops at datajacks and human life is cheap. What's the profit to AIs/whatever to indoctrinate Flipper? What sort of NPC has both the vast authority to make these decisions and will treat the whole scenario as anything more than a joke? All these questions can, of course, be answered in a way that's supportive of Technoflipper. That's the joy of being a GM. But due to how I interpret the setting and how I'd answer those questions, Flipper is going to stay in Seaworld. |
AH hit the nail on the head when he mentioned rigger dolphins. He who controls the seas controls the world. Sea power has been the deciding factor in every major war since someone discovered that wood floats. It was the key the the Spanish Empire's power. It was the key to the British Empire's power. No one would seriously dismiss the effects of German U-Boats on Allied supply lines.
Say I am a middle manager at Megacorp A. I have, through shrewd and somewhat unscrupulous tactics, obtained :nuyen:500,000,000 for my secret assualt dolphin project. The first usable pod is ready for field work just as rival Megacorp B is shipping a boatload of brand new SOTA cyberdecks. I send my cyberweapon rigger dolphins and their pseudo-otaku pod leader off to intercept the ship with a hefty compliment of submersable drones.
The dolphins take the ship by surprize, disable it, and capture it. Their crab drones and others slaughter the crew and they offload the cyberdecks onto submarine cargo drones before sinking the vessel.
My megacorp now owns 30,000 brand new cyberdecks. After changing the cases and altering the serial numbers on all componets, at a average cost of :nuyen:200 per deck we sell them retail for
180,000 each.That is a profit of (5,400,000,0000 - 6,000,000) =
5,394,000,000.Subtract the initial investment and I have made a
4,894,000,000 for my corporation while striking a devestating blow against a rival corp. It is unlikey that the attack dolphins will be traced back to Megacorp A. For all B knows, their ship was sank by wild Storm Dolphins. I am so getting a promotion.Sure, I coudl use human pirates, but they lack the efficiency of a being designed by nature for fast and coorodinated underwater combat. Human pirates would need specialized and expensive vehicles with life support systems capable of supporting them. They wouldn't be able to react as quickly. They would be more easily detectable. They could be captured and forced to talk.
Why build manned mini submarines when you can slap some cyberware onto a dolphin and achieve the same effect with greater reliability at less cost?
As for AI, well I for one can see the advantages of an secret underwater fortress populated by brainwashed cyberdolphins. I would do my AI stuff in peace and quite, realitivly safe from attacks by the so-called authorities. Even if they find my underwarter city, it would be so deep that attacking it would be problematic.
On otaku and magic. Otaku are not magical in the way that mages are. Buy assessing somebody a mage can tell weather they are mundane, adept, sorcerer, conjurer, hermetic, shaman, or any other variant in MITS. No mater how hard he tries a mage will never be able to tell the difference between an otaku and a ordinary teenager. As the books categorically stat that otaku are not magical this at least must be the case (it would be silly to assume that no mage ever assessed an otaku)
There is something else at work and no body has a firm answer on what it is and how it works. AIs can create otaku but is it create or trigger an awakening off. Dose the deep resonance exist and if so is it aware or merely some analogy to manna. These are things we are not meant to have firm answers on.
As to the dolphin Decker or otaku there are several practical problems but none are insurmountable. As has already been shown.
There are 2 other problems I see. There is a large risk of it being corny. I know I couldn’t run it and not have it be such and with the people I play with the GM wouldn’t likely be able to stop it. If you think you can accept or get around that then good for you.
It also risks being a show stealer. Not due to its abilities but in terms of style. This is easier to avoid but still a risk.
Edward
Ps the demand for cyber decks is not that great that 30,000 would be on a ship. In fact I would expect them to be shipped in quantities between 1 and 20 buy air and city roads most of the time. Ships usually transport things that are large, heavy, numerous or in no rush to get to market. Anything small enough to carry and worth a lot of money (180,000 nuyen is enough to buy an apartment) is better sent faster to minimize capital tied up in stock in transit.
Edward
There is something else at work and no body has a firm answer on what it is and how it works. AIs can create otaku but is it create or trigger an awakening off. Dose the deep resonance exist and if so is it aware or merely some analogy to manna. These are things we are not meant to have firm answers on.
As to the dolphin Decker or otaku there are several practical problems but none are insurmountable. As has already been shown.
There are 2 other problems I see. There is a large risk of it being corny. I know I couldn’t run it and not have it be such and with the people I play with the GM wouldn’t likely be able to stop it. If you think you can accept or get around that then good for you.
It also risks being a show stealer. Not due to its abilities but in terms of style. This is easier to avoid but still a risk.
Edward
Ps the demand for cyber decks is not that great that 30,000 would be on a ship. In fact I would expect them to be shipped in quantities between 1 and 20 buy air and city roads most of the time. Ships usually transport things that are large, heavy, numerous or in no rush to get to market. Anything small enough to carry and worth a lot of money (180,000 nuyen is enough to buy an apartment) is better sent faster to minimize capital tied up in stock in transit.
Edward
I'm sure you can remove the 30.000 cyberdecks, and insert <massive load of containers of goods, several thousands of tons> and still reach same net effect.
As for Otaku, they are magical, on another frequency. Wondering why a Mage can't assence them to determine they are Otaku, is like asking why my AM band radio can't pick up FM signals. - IMO anyway.
Why do you assume you require special skills to "subvert" the dolphins into working for the corp? - We've already established that these dolphins might be as smart as people. - They might be "hired". Room & board, fun to do, money introduced as a concept and desirability. Long live capitalism.
Today you can get a dolphin to do all sorts of things. Most of it by asking. Imagine a situation where communication is no longer a hindrance. It'd be like commanding shapechanged humans. With alot more tittering, funnymaking and eating of fish. Actually, I think they'd only stand out on the eating of fish part. Atleast if raw.
As for Otaku, they are magical, on another frequency. Wondering why a Mage can't assence them to determine they are Otaku, is like asking why my AM band radio can't pick up FM signals. - IMO anyway.
Why do you assume you require special skills to "subvert" the dolphins into working for the corp? - We've already established that these dolphins might be as smart as people. - They might be "hired". Room & board, fun to do, money introduced as a concept and desirability. Long live capitalism.
Today you can get a dolphin to do all sorts of things. Most of it by asking. Imagine a situation where communication is no longer a hindrance. It'd be like commanding shapechanged humans. With alot more tittering, funnymaking and eating of fish. Actually, I think they'd only stand out on the eating of fish part. Atleast if raw.
| QUOTE (Edward) |
| e (it would be silly to assume that no mage ever assessed an otaku) |
There has been at least one instance in a novel where a mage assensed a decking otaku, and it was noted that his aura did some fucked up shit. I for the life of me cant remember the book, but it happened, I swear!
Interesting with the book reference.
My interpretation of what is magic in SR is that magic is anything that involves the manipulation (conches or sub conches) of manna. And a sufficiently observant mage will notice it(if it is masked it may need to be a /very/ observant mage). If otaku where magical using this definition then it would be known buy magicians in the setting, conversely if this is the definition you use and it has not been observed then otaku must not be magical.
If you use the broader definition that something is science if it can be duplicated buy any suitably diligent person and anything that is not science is magic then an otaku is using magic as there are no notable commonalities between the training or upbringing of otaku and no matter how hard you try you can not make yourself be an otaku (and there are references to those that have tried).
Edward
My interpretation of what is magic in SR is that magic is anything that involves the manipulation (conches or sub conches) of manna. And a sufficiently observant mage will notice it(if it is masked it may need to be a /very/ observant mage). If otaku where magical using this definition then it would be known buy magicians in the setting, conversely if this is the definition you use and it has not been observed then otaku must not be magical.
If you use the broader definition that something is science if it can be duplicated buy any suitably diligent person and anything that is not science is magic then an otaku is using magic as there are no notable commonalities between the training or upbringing of otaku and no matter how hard you try you can not make yourself be an otaku (and there are references to those that have tried).
Edward
The main problem i see with a dolphin decker of either variety, aside from it being unlikely, is how a dolphin would communicate. even if you could hook one up to the matrix, you would need some kind of dolphin speech transducer.
And as a side note, the dolphin in Gibson's JM wasn't a "decker" by any stretch of the imagination. He was a code cracker. Originally built to disarm underwater smart mines interfacing with them using some fancy SQUIDS and then giving them back their own disarm code.
So the dolphin was a password CRACKER, and basically a one trick fishy. (Yes, I know dolphins are mammals, but pony just didn't seem to fit). Also he had to communicate using very primitive sequences of flashing LED lights. Which would make having him as a contact pretty damn annoying.
And as a side note, the dolphin in Gibson's JM wasn't a "decker" by any stretch of the imagination. He was a code cracker. Originally built to disarm underwater smart mines interfacing with them using some fancy SQUIDS and then giving them back their own disarm code.
So the dolphin was a password CRACKER, and basically a one trick fishy. (Yes, I know dolphins are mammals, but pony just didn't seem to fit). Also he had to communicate using very primitive sequences of flashing LED lights. Which would make having him as a contact pretty damn annoying.
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