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Speaking as a born-and-raised Québécois, Québec splitting makes about as much sense as the South splitting. smile.gif
Hum, interesting. We have no Canadian players. I know that Quebec has voted for splitting in the past (though the votes have failed to pass), so it seemed plausible. But maybe that is just as silly as much of the rest of the setting. But I think a lot of the SR background is interesting even if silly.
Clarification: Quebec has voted on seperation, but never for seperation. The majority of Quebeckers don't want to split (it might be a slim majority, but a majority it is). Quebec seperating in 6th world conditions would be, well, economic and political suicide, despite the neo-fascism of it's SR govornment. Hell, the entire chaotic mess that is North America in SR makes little to no real-world sense. The Native Americans shouldn't have won the Ghost Dance War, regardless of horror-given magical know-how. Even if they could win, they would never have taken 50% of the country like that, they lacked the numbers or the resources to hold the territory (plus, you know, all the people living there already who'd have something to say about it). Canada.... well, Canada wouldn't have stuffed the natives in concentration camps in the first place. we learned not to follow our reactionary southern bretheren down such roads after WW2. The Natives wouldn't have carved up Canada worse than it did the US, and Canada wouldn't have merged with the US... ever. The only way to get Canada to merge with the US under such notoriously unfair conditions would be to have the US invade and take the place over. the South seperating makes more sense by far than any of this. They tried before, and watching their govornment capitulate huge chunks of the nation to a small group of people who haven't been the dominant culture in NA since the 1600's (or less) would tend to make them want to get the hell out while the getting's good. And that's not even touching the insanity that became of Germany.

However, all these things came to pass in my SR game, because they tell me and the players that all the normal rules of the world around us are gone, and that it's a world where truly anything can happen, no matter how unlikely, as long as you're willing to play for the big stakes.

Warning: dry and mostly irrelevant RL political junk to follow.

There have been numerous referendums on separation over the past two decades, but they have all failed. While the last one (in 1995) was barely defeated (literally 51% - 49%), the fact is that many citizens felt the question was broadly drawn and vaguely-worded:

"Do you agree that Quebec should become sovereign after having made a formal offer to Canada for a new economic and political partnership within the scope of the bill respecting the future of Quebec and of the agreement signed on June 12, 1995?"

A statistically-significant number of voters later claimed that they believed the question meant that, in the event of a successful 'yes' vote, the government of Québec would begin negotiations for greater power within Canada and NOT simply secede unilaterally.

The implication is that support for what we call 'hard sovereignty' (i.e. complete and unilateral secession, creation of an independent nation, etc.) is significantly lower than 49%. Poll after poll confirms this, placing supporters of 'hard' sovereignty around 30-35%. Still much higher than in places like Vermont and Texas, who each have their own secessionist movements, but far short of the majority needed.

With many old-guard hard-liners aging and dying (the movement's heydey was the late 1970s and early 1980s) and the movement failing to secure an especially strong following among Québec youth, it's hard to imagine the sovereignist movement succeeding in the future.

Hope that helps. smile.gif
That makes much more sense, and I should have said on rather than for seperation. I have family in Texas and although their is a stong independence movement, I don't think they would ever leave the US. If we revise our setting for SR4 and start over we will probably put Quebec back into the UCAS, of course the union of the US and Canada is another issue. I think I'm hijacking the thread a bit, sorry.
I also apologize for the threadjacking. I'll stop. smile.gif

Actually SR is the only Cyberpunk world with exterritorial corps that I know of. The other three games (Cyberpunk, GURPS CP, Cyberworld) have it "your way" (Strong corps but as "grey emminence" not as nations) and so have most written universes.

And without exterritorial corps, the runner becomes, as you stated correctly IMHO, much more important.

SL James
QUOTE (Canis @ Aug 12 2005, 12:07 PM)
2. The UCAS didn’t break up. We have 2 Native Americans that are regular players (they live on the Soboba Reservation), and they just though that the whole thing was silly.

A lot of things about Shadowrun are silly, but I don't see the point in going through all of the trouble that might come from fundamentally altering events which serve as a historical foundation to the timeline.

I guess, as one person said to me, that means I don't like "realism". I prefer to think of it as "I have better things to do with my time".

California and the South never split, but the Tir and Quebec did split.

From a larger, more poweful UCAS? How?
A lot of my group are bored businessmen and researchers, we like to create game systems, rewrite histories (RL and fictional) and debate various topics for fun (we're not the most exciting guys at parties). Quebec broke away peacefully when the US and Canada merged (though we might change this in the future) the Tir split was fairly complicated, probably only interesting to my group, but admittedly it was a bit forced. But we all really liked the idea of a NA elven nation. And Birdy, I haven't read too much other cyberpunk; that's interesting I figured extraterritoriality was common in the genre.
Cynic project
Here is the thing is the world goes on like it now Califonia will more and more move further and futher away from the rest of the US. Califorina is more likely to leave than Texas. Well, at least how I see it.
The "Coins" thread got me going again:

Money: There still is paper currency and coins around. Sure anything above 20 NuYen is payed by electronic cash but small payments are still in physical money. And local currencies still exist so there are still Euros and Dollars and all. Including course changes (Borrowed from Gurps:Cyberworld)

Payment: Payment in straight NuYen is rather rare. More often you end up with local money, corp script or even drugs. For a corp producing x kg of nearly clean Endorphines (or whatever) is often rather cheap (Legal mass production) while you can re-sell the stuff for street price (Borrowed from Hardwired)

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