sure that would be nice, problem is, up until now, every engine has its own values for speed, load, acceleration, economy and fuel......

i am not sayin that i don't like your proposal, all i want is, to have the liberty of creating vehicles that are more suitable for shadowrunner, mercenary etc. activities.

the design rules can definitely be simplified and steamlined, and thats fine with me as long as the player is not limited too much.
i assume that my previous replies and examples define, what freedoms i want for players.....

The thing i really like about SR3 design rules is that you can build almost everything you can find in the entertainment business. I created the new BatMobile for my char., to give one example.

I'd like to see the vehicle design rules stay (And weapons, and spells, and deck, etc). Yeah, not everyone uses them - But I think there are enopugh 'technically minded' gms out there that would like it.

And I don't think you need an engineering squad to design them...Did they bring in Shrinks, Collegge professors, computer experts, Gun experts, Martial artists, etc to help design the chargen/combat/skills/etc? No - It's a game for chrissake. If it bends the rules of reality a little, let it.

Will munchkins get in and have their way with the ruels? Yeah - but they'll do that no matter what. Munchkins are the GM's problem - not the game systems.

can i marry you ?

I'd like to have one less core book. By going the route of slimming down room taken by the vehicle equipment stuff they have got an initial plan that has one less book.

For the record I am an engineer. I've also played riggers. I am often banned from playing riggers b/c I tend to overwhelm the GMs.

I think that SR4 does need a vehicle creation system but it needs to be radically dumbed down. I don't care about the liquid metal cooling system or the molybdenum alloy frame. I want a lower Sig and more Body. (SR4 still has Signature, right?)

So I suggest something simple to make base vehicles. This is off the top of my head and for demonstration purposes:

Frame cost: (Body + Armor + CF) x Vehicle-Type-Multiplier
Engine cost: (Body + Armor + CF) x Spd x Accel x Engine-Type-Multiplier
Brakes: (Body + Armor + CF) x Vehicle-type-multiplier
Sensors cost: Rating x sensor-multiplier
handling cost: Rating x (body + Armor + CF) x handling-multiplier
Signature: Rating x Frame Cost x Engine Cost x Signature-muliplier
Armor cost: Rating x (Body + CF) Vehicle-type-multiplier

Frame cost is based on the intended weight, size and purpose
Engines need enough power to move mass and accelerate it.
Sensors don't give a crap about the rest of the vehicle
Handling is highly mass dependant
It's harder to hide a barn, and really hard to hide a 200mph barn
Armor is based on size and how easy it is to beef up.

Add a couple of simple tables and the irritating detail work of comparing the costs and looking for edge cases and you have the rules.

Upgrades should be available but no way as detailed. In SR4 having a +/-2 is a massive change so you really wouldn't need many variants. Have the cost of upgrades be based on the original ratings in keeping with the SR4 karma costs. After all, tightening up the suspension on a typical sedan has a large impact on handling and can be done fairly cheap but getting an equal boost out of a Porsche is complete bear.

Sensors absolutely care about the rest of the vehicle. If the vehicle gives off a lot of heat or sound or EMR at certain points, sensors are going to have to be designed around that if they're going to try to minimize the blind spot.

~J

OK Kage, sure - but that's a little deep. More so than the game needs.

i also like kigmatzomat's approach.

it gives the player enough liberty without being to complex.

however armor is a customization, so using max.load, would be better IMO.

There would be also some tables, but not more than there are right now...

I really like it and I really hope that Adam reads it and that the devs at least consider to include vehicle design rules into SR4 Arsenal..

We'll leave him alone until the PDF is out and he's had some rest.