Following up on this entry from a different thread (which answers a post earlier in that same thread):

With "Hung Out To Dry", your contacts do not talk to you. With "Bad Rep", you get penalties to your rolls with your contacts. But unless you started with them, whether you gain those Flaws during gameplay through roleplay is a matter of GM discretion. So barring any GM fiat that causes a PC to gain any such Flaws, yes, those contacts should be "forever" until the contact dies. (See Hunted Flaw for an example of an un-dying contact, although one that wants bad things to happen to you)

Well, strictly canon i guess they do last forever as long as you pay upkeep and don't get any of the above mentioned flaws, but you can rest assured that this wouldn't be the case in my game. I'd have them react more like human beings, and I'm not as strict on the upkeep either, but this is me, and not canon.

I'm inclined to say it depends on how you treat your contacts in general, and whether or not you've ever crossed a line on the contact in particular.

If you have a history of killing and cannabalizing your contacts, for example, not many people're gonna want to know you. In fact, some may hire Shadowrunners to pre-emptively geek you before you eat their organs with a nice chianti.

On the other hand, if you've got a history for looking out for your Contacts, and going above and beyond for them, they may be willing to remain your friends, even if you do something that would otherwise make them hate you, like say taking a Shadowrun against their company.

Contact upkeep of some form is required to keep said contact. You either roleplay something or pay the price. That does not make the reversal true. If you pay upkeep and mistreat him in whatever way, you might be gone from HIS contact list.

So it is "as long as you don´t cross the line". "Our lives don´t vibe any longer" should only happen as part of a story arc. Enough of that in real life, already.

Contacts are far from forever in my games. Contact Loss happens three ways in them:

1) Human reaction. If you betray your contact, he's not going to take your calls for much longer.

2) Sane limit of Usefulness. If the PC uses a contact in a logical but run or sanity breaking way that might be repeated, I'll roll with it. However, the contact will conveniently be ran over / arrested / crushed in a freak air-cargo accident soon after.

3) Plot fodder. Contacts make excellent fodder for world-scope things to have an impact on the characters. PCs don't really react to hearing about a serial killer on the trideo, but that changes when a contact gets stabbed. Evil charismatic cult leader recruiting? Passe, until I scan through the contact lists and choose which one gives a PC a call and invites him to experience the joy of universal brotherhood.

I personally think the contact upkeep rles are purest, oozing shit. They're a nice way to make roll-players realise contacts are more than numbers to call when you need something, but really, contacts should be maintained through roleplay, not paying them money. I especially dislike the progressive cost of contacts when you get more friendly with them. My main characters' boy- and girlfriends (I play both sexes), for instance, are most of the time - technically - rated Level 3. That doesn't mean you have to shove that much money into them! I mean, okay, having a girlfriend DOES mean extra cost, but s far, I have yet to meet one that costs €20.000 and more per month. Even a marriage and a child cost less, and by SR rules, that would be two contacts (spouse and child), both rated level 3.

I'd prefer maintaining contacts through roleplaying (spending time with them, bringing them presents from runs, doing them favours on the side, and such things). Of course, this isn't always feasible in a running campaign, and sometimes, paying money (or, as I prefer, Karma) to maintain contacts in downtime, with a short description of what you intend to do (we handle this through emails to the GM and entries in a small forum) is just a better option. We also handle obtaining gear that way.

I still am opposed to the costs. Distant business contacts don't demand €5000 in payment monthly. Good friends (I can claim to have some) don't demand up to 20K. Those rules are highly unrealistic.

Having said that, should contacts remain forever no matter what? Depends on the contact really. I believe in working out contacts somewhat, give them a face and some personlity. That way, the GM can decide for each indivitdual contact how they react tio the runners' actions. Hey, a SK corp contact mnight completely break with the character if he, say, shoots Mr. Brackhaus point blank with a combat shotgun and urinates on the corpse (and does that while Lofwyr is watching via live feed), simply because even being seen as friendly with them could mean a one-time date with Lofwyr himself.
A fixer might want to sell the character to the dragon now (in SR4 terms, his friendship rating plunges to zero), though he will still talk to them, if only to inform them to never call again.
An AB+ contact might even sponataneously rise in level with the character reacting to the same thing, simply because he is in awe that the character had the balls to basically shit on old Loffy's head in such a cool and open way.

Similarily, a patriotic gunsmith would maybe not like the character any more if he helped a foreign government to kick the UCAS' ass good (datasteal that makes said government intercept and capture/kill a large scale commando force, think pigs' bay), but Ghost-Who-Walks (an avid hater of the White Man) might like this, especially if the commandos are caught in, say, Sioux territory.

All in all, contacts are people too and deserve to be treated as such. At least if you don't just want them as numbers to call if you want to obtain gear, hints, or quicksave the game before you defeat Metal Gear.

I understand event 3 to be part of a fully fleshed out campaign and appreciate when such things happen. It gets balanced out by occasional windfalls the players did nothing to deserve either.

Event 2 I got problems with. Contacts should be useful, and I don´t get the game breaking part (they did get GM approval, after all). I´d rather make the player understand that he now owes a favour, and he´d better pay up.


How often do you give out new contacts / contact levels? Is upgrading a contact level always something the player has to initiate, or does Mr. J decide to be Level 2 after half a dozen perfect runs? If contacts can fade out, the players will need new ones to replace them.

In response to Conskill: I greatly despise GMs ditching contacts I gave my PC as a background for character development just because they need someone to be raped/killed. It is okay when my one man character's wife is abducted and raped/almost killed once. It gets old when this happens again. Especially if it's just because a GM thinks "hey, he's got a wife, what a brilliant way to tie in my brilliantly original hannibal lecter rip-off superhuman all-knowing on-GM-knowledge-acting megacorp exec super serial rapist/killer".

And I also heavily dislike GMs killing off any contact without a good plot reason. Just scanning down the list and saying "Hey dude, your char's level 3 fixer contact/love interest just got killed in that plane crash at the end of corp war" is sure to piss me off, especially if he does this just on the side.

On occasion, as a GM, plot has demanded of me that I kill off a PC's contact -- but it's never arbitrary, and if such a thing happens through no fault of their own, I usually also set up that plot such that a replacement contact of something approximating equivalent "value" can be acquired by the PC.

Level 3 contacts (and even to some extent level 2) are on a different scale again. the way I run it, anything involving them had fragging well better be the driving story for that entire campaign arc. Anything less, and I'd feel that I'm jerking the player around just because.

I beleave that you payed to have them as a contact when the game began. As soon as you earn your first Karma its up to you.

I also believe a GM should not off a contact lightly, and when ever he does, it would be nice to fill the gap somehow. (your level 3 fixer old school chumer buddy is offed to progress a plotline, after you catch the Fragers who did it and advenge your friend, his son (who accompyned you on the run to get his father's killers) now looks to you as a mentor and takes up the family buisness)

Hey, just because a person is actively trying to kill you doesn't mean they're not a contact, they're just not likely to be the first person you call for a favor...

What of the players who deliberately avoid any and all plot hooks of any kind into their characters (at least in part because they were so warned against them by others), and then find that there is no real reason for the character to engage on any level? especially if they also follow the rest of the board advice and don't create any reasons for personal survival to be of immediate concern?

How can the players totally avoid giving you plot hooks if they have to give you a short description of their characters history? If some deliberatly avoid plot hooks, focus on those who don´t. If you want more of the later, use more "carrot" plot hooks. Power of "positive einforcement", activate.

I run all the PS's contacts just as I would any othe NPC. With some things, it does come down to a die roll. Others, it's strait Roleplaying. They all have a dwarven fixer for a contact. (Some he has become 2, other he is lvl 1) If any of them called him a fragging halfer and pointed a gun at him, there is a good chance he wouldn't answere there calls in the future.

Perhapse running the contacts like people and making them bail if things get bad enough is not cannon. But it's the only thing that makes sense to me.

Once the game starts I use them as NPCs. Just because someone's written down on your character sheet doesn't mean they don't have a life beyond your character.

Set up a plotline involving a contact a few weeks ago that could have ended with the contact getting geeked. I gave the character the opportunity to see that that didn't happen and he pulled through. Granted, the whole situation came about because of a favor the character asked of his contact, something that did require him to stick his neck out a bit but it was a level 2 contact so figured that it could happen.

Another character screwed over a contact and has lost contact with him, thus losing the contact. If he wanted to try and track him down I'd give him a shot, but the contact isn't going to conveniently forget the PCs actions if he does. Hell the *contact* may even seek revenge in the future.

Point being, most contacts in my campaign serve as contacts, but they're people to and sometimes that's going to rear up.

Personally, I say Contacts are Contacts forever, even if you don't pay the upkeep. My reasoning (if you can call it that) is as follows:

These people know you. Nothing you do will make them forget you (unless you cause them brain damage or wipe their memories). How you treat them and your history with them and your rep in general will influence how they act.

This may mean that your level 3 Buddy that you pay mad upkeep on will kill you on site if your negligence or malice caused the death of his child or spouse. For example.

Game mechanics should never take precedence over the story.

Edited for. grammar and sppeling.