Does anyone else feel like the history wasn't as in depth as SR3?
tweak
Full Version: History
| QUOTE (tweak) |
| Does anyone else feel like the history wasn't as in depth as SR3? tweak |
It is covered in roughly the same number of pages. But they have nearly 15 more years to cover than SR3 did.
Wasn´t there something said about this in the Gencon keynote? I seem to remember Rob saying they would not write a history lesson like before, but instead have a subjective report. Is that right?
The PDF extract at the FanPro page was written in a subjective, in-game perspective, yes.
But in that childish anarchist style i strongly dislike.
But in that childish anarchist style i strongly dislike.
| QUOTE (Grinder) |
| The PDF extract at the FanPro page was written in a subjective, in-game perspective, yes. But in that childish anarchist style i strongly dislike. |
The german one? Yeah, didn't liked it myself. It was somewhat... unfitting.
Keep in mind though, that most of the german .pdf-published material is (basically) fan-work...
| QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig) |
| Keep in mind though, that most of the german .pdf-published material is (basically) fan-work... |
This one wasn't. It was an excerpt of the translation of System Failure.
Sure, possible... my guess is, that Jens (Ullrich?) did not translate System Failure, but wrote this german perspective of things as the usual .01D-addon for Systemausfall - so, if we are lucky, we won't find this text in the english version. 
While I enjoyed the personal view point in the history, the whole history section seemed rushed in comparison to prior versions. And it is the history fluff that really adds to the storyline in the game. This makes running the game far more easier. I also did not like the paper being glossy. The reflective nature of the paper in SR4 gives me a headache.
tweak
tweak
| QUOTE (tweak) |
| The reflective nature of the paper in SR4 gives me a headache. |
Hey! I'm not the only one!
| QUOTE |
| my guess is, that Jens (Ullrich?) did not translate System Failure, but wrote this german perspective of things as the usual .01D-addon for Systemausfall |
Actually we germans like our .01D addons. At least most of them.
Uh... let's say 'some'.
Yeah. I abhore most of the german changes. That's why i stick mostly to the english sourcebooks. I hope that those additions get better with SR4.
| QUOTE (Oracle) |
| Actually we germans like our .01D addons. At least most of them. |
Uhm. No. I don't like it. Not even the german-only stuff at Cyberpirates. And thinking of DidS2 or B:ADL... uah...
Wait until hermit finds this thread
| QUOTE (Grinder) |
| And thinking of DidS2 or B:ADL... uah... |
Don't mention them. Especially not the first one. 
What? Do you dislike Berlin?
Living there, i especially disliked this one. I liked the version in the first DidS, though.
Worst thing was the description of the seat of the ADL government on the island Wilhelmsstein in the Steinhuder Meer. Has someone else besides me been there? It's damn small. And a harbor for submarines on that island is just ridiculous. I'm still wondering why there is no description of the city of Hannover anywhere.
| QUOTE (Oracle) |
| I'm still wondering why there is no description of the city of Hannover anywhere. |
I was pissed that there's no mentioning of Braunschweig anywhere (it's not even on the AGS map!). Today Lower Saxony's second biggest city (meaning one of the biggest cities of the North German League in 2060), seat of several federal agencies and institutions...
Who on earth could be interested in reading anything about Braunschweig??
Think we are off topic a small bit.
Greetings from Hannover.
Think we are off topic a small bit.
Greetings from Hannover.
| QUOTE (Darkness @ Aug 27 2005, 10:13 PM) | ||
The german one? Yeah, didn't liked it myself. It was somewhat... unfitting. |
Somewhat.
But alas, we're used to that. I just so wish they nuke the remainders of anarchist Berlin to hell and back. Kill'em all. Gas'em. Make Ghouls eat them. Make them all into Shedim. Whatever. Just do away with them.
| QUOTE |
| I was pissed that there's no mentioning of Braunschweig anywhere (it's not even on the AGS map!). Today Lower Saxony's second biggest city (meaning one of the biggest cities of the North German League in 2060), seat of several federal agencies and institutions... |
Ah, come on! I was actually pissed t see how many pages were wasted in DidS2 on "Shadows of Frankfurt/Oder" and other minor cities. What are the Americans supposed to say? There're entire STATES of the UCAS that have never been covered! I mean, anyone EVER had any Shadows Of article about Newhaven, or Tampa, or Jacksonville, or Austin, Fargo, Bismarck ... a SB is more to provide a general overview. You can always fill in the blanks yourself. I mean, it's your city, you know about it.
Odds are you'd have been pissed at what it had been made into anyway.
| QUOTE |
| Worst thing was the description of the seat of the ADL government on the island Wilhelmsstein in the Steinhuder Meer. Has someone else besides me been there? It's damn small. And a harbor for submarines on that island is just ridiculous. I'm still wondering why there is no description of the city of Hannover anywhere. |
Well, coming from Berlin (and having recently been to Hannover) I wonder how any government would fit into there anyway ...
Gretings from the *real* capital.
| QUOTE (hermit) |
| Somewhat. |
| QUOTE (hermit) |
| But alas, we're used to that. I just so wish they nuke the remainders of anarchist Berlin to hell and back. Kill'em all. Gas'em. Make Ghouls eat them. Make them all into Shedim. Whatever. Just do away with them. |
A new facist/police-state dictatorship would be my wish for the AGS (and please note, not irl
). Sometimes history repeats itself. all those damn 15-year-old-rich-kid-anarchist would have been wiped out.
There are few points in dictatorship when one can have 'democracy' - one can always shed a good part of responsibility to the people if they complain... as it was basically their 'free' decision which screwed them, while manipulating them in the desired ways.
So far, this is exactly where whole Europe seems to head, too... in SR, I mean *cough*.
So far, this is exactly where whole Europe seems to head, too... in SR, I mean *cough*.
| QUOTE (Grinder @ Aug 29 2005, 04:54 PM) | ||
A new facist/police-state dictatorship would be my wish for the AGS (and please note, not irl ). Sometimes history repeats itself. all those damn 15-year-old-rich-kid-anarchist would have been wiped out. |
Yup, yup. With SR's philosophy of "history rhymes" and it's tendency to use (some would say abuse) local legends, this would be very likely. And come on, that would be something everyone could relate to (especialyl the americans). I mean, for so many people, Germany and dictatorial often is almost synonymous. And seeing as how Sr used many such cliches (monarchist French, business-savvy Portuguese, the Vatican-fixed Italians, Venice and it's Doge, fundamentalist Arabs ...), I really don't see why Germany cannot become a Fourth Reich.
It could even make use of local legends. Barbarossa comes to mind. Herman the Cerusk. Whatever. Maybe a new Bismarck rises from a dreadful war sparked by the events in SF (Germany has a long tradition of golden ages being sparked by dreadful wars it usually loses).
I'm just afraid the FanPro team is a tad too attached to their smurf fiefdoms and pixie states and oddbal pubertarian anarchist dreams to make this happen. And too much on the 'progressive left' side to use old legends.
| QUOTE |
| There are few points in dictatorship when one can have 'democracy' - one can always shed a good part of responsibility to the people if they complain... |
Get your courage together, get yourself a WASG/PDS brochure (and a copy of Neues Deutschland), and read. There're plenty of reasons. The people need guidance. The people cannot be trusted to make right decisions (ask Pat Robertson, or Jürgen Trittin, especially him, he's an old-school Maoist after all), and all the socialist romanticism.
More than plenty.
... and in case you're not German, I'll gladly supply links.
| QUOTE (hermit @ Aug 29 2005, 02:44 PM) |
| Yup, yup. With SR's philosophy of "history rhymes" and it's tendency to use (some would say abuse) local legends, this would be very likely. And come on, that would be something everyone could relate to (especialyl the americans). |
Somehow i knew we would agree here
| QUOTE (hermit @ Aug 29 2005, 02:44 PM) |
| And too much on the 'progressive left' side to use old legends. |
I'm a left-wing guy myself, but one has to make a difference between real and game world.
Yes, definitly. For all I know, there's nothing inherently nazi about the Barbarossa myth, or all the other ancient German sagas. and without that to support your game universe (if it indeed is to be built on legends, as SR tends to be), well ... we get DidS smurf kingdoms and very stupid mockeries of regional stereotypes.
*hiss*
A coup ... but in the WRONG COUNTRY!!! GRRRR!!!!!!!!
Now, if FP-De has a coup in Germany, everyone is gonna yell "you're only copying the yanks' stuff!" ... so we're stuck with the miserable setting that is the AGS >_<.
Fuck.
A coup ... but in the WRONG COUNTRY!!! GRRRR!!!!!!!!
Now, if FP-De has a coup in Germany, everyone is gonna yell "you're only copying the yanks' stuff!" ... so we're stuck with the miserable setting that is the AGS >_<.
Fuck.
A lot of countries over the 6th world had seen a coup, so why not germany? I won't blame FanPro for doing so after all.
Yeah. Give it time.
Seems quite unlikly - there is someone golden who likes the way the puppets dance in Europe.
| QUOTE ("hermit") |
| Get your courage together, get yourself a WASG/PDS brochure (and a copy of Neues Deutschland), and read. There're plenty of reasons. The people need guidance. The people cannot be trusted to make right decisions (ask Pat Robertson, or Jürgen Trittin, especially him, he's an old-school Maoist after all), and all the socialist romanticism. |
Sorry to see you missed my point entirely.
Even GD can die/being crossed/ tricked out.
I don't like the "Lofwyr is allmighty" theme...
I don't like the "Lofwyr is allmighty" theme...
..thats why you want a 'hidden' despot replaced with an visible one?
| QUOTE (Grinder) |
| Even GD can die/being crossed/ tricked out. I don't like the "Lofwyr is allmighty" theme... |
Sure all can die but Loffy
I really like the theme of him being a little bit better harder tougher sexier.... meaner than anybody or anything else...
There are other ways of handling regime change in the AGS that don't involve a coup... for instance, imagine the rise of a nationalist anti-mega coalition gambling on a kneejerk reaction to Lofwyr's stunt during System Failure and the apparent mishandling of the whole crisis by the C.C.
however, even I doubt 5 years will be enough to bring in full reunification.
however, even I doubt 5 years will be enough to bring in full reunification.
I think it's possible to have the AGS unified under the flag of a strong ruler/corp/whoever, maybe with Lofwyr backing him.
Well, not maybe - only... politics is about what you sell the masses, not what you actually do - even a 'rise of a nationalist anti-mega coalition' would have to have the blessing of golden snout.
(Not that he wouldn't be all to happy giving that - ruling out competition while maintaining control over the new puppets is quite an old trick)
(Not that he wouldn't be all to happy giving that - ruling out competition while maintaining control over the new puppets is quite an old trick)
Or another powerful faction steps in and deals with Lofwyr in an painful (for the dragon) way. I don't like his grip over the AGS, but i don't have much hope that this will change in the near future... so i would be happy with a unifying movement of some sort which leads to a new dictatorship in the AGS and destroys all those shitty settings we currently have their. Like honkey-donkey litte TT, the Berlin joke and brandenburg, saxonia or westphalia.
For my feeling of SR it is important taht Lofwyr has a tight grip over AGL and the whole bunch of Europe... It is his powerbase and I think it should stay that way... Perhaps even more become his turf...
Everything imperium is doomed to break apart, that's a lesson history gave us. Lofwyr shouldn't be without flaw.
And remember: history repeats itself.
And remember: history repeats itself.
| QUOTE (Grinder @ Sep 3 2005, 06:26 PM) |
| Lofwyr shouldn't be without flaw. |
On the contrary
He should be...But thats just personal rambling...
Or you could go the way a crazy GM of mine did, back in second ed (On the verge of SR3, I came in for the last two sessions of the campaign before we converted and I ended up GMing)...
And kill Lofwyr...
Then Europe just goes crazy. I had fun in the Lofwyr-free Europe, anyways.
And kill Lofwyr...
Then Europe just goes crazy. I had fun in the Lofwyr-free Europe, anyways.
Dont forget, Lofwyr has the "Twist Fate" power. Its in the rulebook !
Pha, rules are just guidelines.
There are ways to kill the Golden Dragon. Powerful dragon magic i.e.
There are ways to kill the Golden Dragon. Powerful dragon magic i.e.
I almost suggested thor shotting as a viable way to kill him, then I realized he probably as an anchored detect thor shot/thor shot barrier spell up at 999,999 force.
=)
=)
Nukes, good ol' Nukes.
Or send in a strik team of Uber-Cybered Albino Drop Bear Ninjas.
Or send in a strik team of Uber-Cybered Albino Drop Bear Ninjas.
Attacking Lofwyr with nuclear weapons would result in instant retaliation by Saeder Krupp. That would mean nuclear apocalypse...
You've been brainwashed by the SK PR, that's all. There are ways and possibilities to kill even a GD, and even Lofwyr.
Yes, I can imagine ... have Ryan Mercury cast a "Summon Verjigorme", for instance. ^^
Or just have Alamaise have a go at him. We don't need him killed, just humiliated. Alamaise is a Great too after all, he cannot be THAT inferior to Loffy.
Anyway, I'd be happy to just see Pomorya, WRL, Berlin, Saxony and Black Forest go, and have the country replaced with something at least remotely believable.
Or just have Alamaise have a go at him. We don't need him killed, just humiliated. Alamaise is a Great too after all, he cannot be THAT inferior to Loffy.
Anyway, I'd be happy to just see Pomorya, WRL, Berlin, Saxony and Black Forest go, and have the country replaced with something at least remotely believable.
| QUOTE (hermit) |
| Yes, I can imagine ... have Ryan Mercury cast a "Summon Verjigorme", for instance. ^^ |
... dammit. Now I've got the idea for a Verjigorm cult in my head.
| QUOTE (Oracle) |
| Worst thing was the description of the seat of the ADL government on the island Wilhelmsstein in the Steinhuder Meer. Has someone else besides me been there? It's damn small. And a harbor for submarines on that island is just ridiculous. I'm still wondering why there is no description of the city of Hannover anywhere. |
Most likely someone has read that the "Brandtaucher" (an 18th century submarine) was tested there and speculated that the "Meer" (like in Mittelmeer - The Mediterane sea but actually a local dialect for a lake as opposed the die See like in Baltic Sea) is rather big and deep.
Actually the beast is 32km square [8x4.5km] and between 0.5 and 3.5m deep (average: 1.5m - you can walk almost the whole way to the island)
http://www.naturpark-steinhuder-meer.de/ue...arte/karte.html
Biggest problem for a sub would be getting out of the lake. The Meerbach is rather small (but at least leads to the Weser) and the Hagenburg-Channel ends after 1.5km in a city.
Oh and the "fortress" is on an artificial island build onto a rather sandy ground. Looks quite massiv but was build as a military school.
If you ever get a chance, visit!
Birdy
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