Chuckg
Sep 4 2005, 03:32 AM
Hi.
I was just wondering if the true nature and origins of the otaku, now technoshamans, had ever been explained in any Shadowrun book or supplement.
I own most of the 2e and 3e stuff, including Virtual Realities 2.0, Matrix, Renraku Arcology Shutdown, and Target: Matrix, and it didn't have what I was looking for, and I was wondering what supplement did, or if it was explained in one of the tie-in novels, or it was never explained at all.
Sabosect
Sep 4 2005, 03:48 AM
It's mostly GM fiat.
otaku are first mentioned in the Denver boxed set. nobody knows their true nature, nor their origins.
Ancient History
Sep 4 2005, 04:05 AM
Psychotrope suggested that otaku were created by the AI known alternately as Psychotrope and Mirage, but this doesn't seem to cover all otaku, much less technomancers.
hahnsoo
Sep 4 2005, 04:10 AM
It's technomancers, not technoshamans (who were a subset of Otaku). The indications are that Technomancers are either Otaku who didn't die during the Crash (many of them did) or folks who were transformed when they survived the Crash 2.0 (jacked in while the Matrix was going down). Could be the residual actions of the AIs, the Crash Dissonant worm, JackBNimble, etc. Or it could be an unintended consequence of the Dissonance and Resonance joining together, just like Pax planned. Who knows?
bclements
Sep 4 2005, 05:12 AM
As an aside to this:
[ Spoiler ]
What happend to Mirage and Megaera? Mirage's assault did have a nice ring to it, very well written in System Failure. And, do we know that those three are the only ones?
Demonseed Elite
Sep 4 2005, 05:23 AM
[ Spoiler ]
I'm not about to say that Megaera and Mirage are dead, because death is something that happens to (meta)humanity. It might not apply to artificial intelligences, at least as we know it. But there is no way that Megaera or Mirage came out of the Singularity Event unscathed or unchanged.
It is strongly implied those were the only three A.I. But we may never know for sure.
hahnsoo
Sep 4 2005, 05:34 AM
[ Spoiler ]
I think an earlier supplement explicitly states that there are only three AIs, no more, no less. I can't remember which one, though.
fistandantilus4.0
Sep 4 2005, 05:40 AM
The Matrix book lists them , doesn't it?
Bandwidthoracle
Sep 4 2005, 05:42 AM
The two competing theories are:
Otaku are magic (bad)
Otaku are the next evolution of humans (Good)
I think I'm very biased on this one, so I might not be the person to ask.
Ancient History
Sep 4 2005, 05:50 AM
QUOTE (hahnsoo) |
[ Spoiler ] I think an earlier supplement explicitly states that there are only three AIs, no more, no less. I can't remember which one, though. |
That was System Failure (oh, sure,
Matrix implied as much, but SF said it). Your brain is curdling.
hahnsoo
Sep 4 2005, 06:37 AM
QUOTE (Ancient History @ Sep 4 2005, 12:50 AM) |
(oh, sure, Matrix implied as much, but SF said it). Your brain is curdling. |
Erm, I just double-checked Matrix, on p150. It says:
QUOTE |
THE AIS OF SHADOWRUN In 2061, three AIs exist in the world of Shadowrun. |
There you have it.
Not that I disagree with your assessment that my brain is curdling. That sort of thing happens when you leave it out in the sun too long.
Bandwidthoracle
Sep 4 2005, 07:06 AM
Lets see, there is Dues, Mirage, Magera
What about M-16 or whatever that has the tribe of pet otaku that must always have exatly 16 members?
Isis-9. that's unconfirmed and highly suspect, as the only people who support the claim are the tribe's own otaku.
Bandwidthoracle
Sep 4 2005, 07:39 AM
QUOTE (mfb) |
Isis-9. that's unconfirmed and highly suspect, as the only people who support the claim are the tribe's own otaku. |
Isis-9 that's it. So the tribe is officaly crazy as of System faiulre? My group is gonna be surpised, a kid representing a ficticious entity gave them a lot of cred for a job.
Sabosect
Sep 4 2005, 07:54 AM
Okay, here's something scary: Vampire technomancers.
fistandantilus4.0
Sep 4 2005, 08:38 AM
what, they suck your bank account dry? Isn't that called the IRS?
Fortune
Sep 4 2005, 09:11 AM
QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0) |
what, they suck your bank account dry? Isn't that called the IRS? |
Or a wife!
fistandantilus4.0
Sep 4 2005, 10:14 AM
I dunno, my wife isn't that good at computers.
dreading when she reads this thread and turns her death lasers/glaring eyes on me. Good thing she generally stays away from the SR4 thread
Omega Skip
Sep 4 2005, 11:27 AM
QUOTE (Fortune) |
QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0 @ Sep 4 2005, 06:38 PM) | what, they suck your bank account dry? Isn't that called the IRS? |
Or a wife!
|
Always remember, kids, if she's unhappy, you're unhappy. If she's unhappy long enough, you're unhappy - with half your stuff.
Okay, now let's get back on topic...
SL James
Sep 4 2005, 07:21 PM
Nothing a prenup or a bullet couldn't solve.
hobgoblin
Sep 4 2005, 07:34 PM
or not getting married in the first place...
hyzmarca
Sep 4 2005, 07:50 PM
Prenup, bullet, and not getting married, are good but you shouldn't forget about personafix chips.
Erebus
Sep 4 2005, 08:13 PM
QUOTE (hyzmarca) |
Prenup, bullet, and not getting married, are good but you shouldn't forget about personafix chips. |
Personafix Chips.... ahh the ol' slot the latest Starlet chip in the wifes datasocket while she's sleeping gig.... they easy way to your 20th Anniversary.
hobgoblin
Sep 4 2005, 10:45 PM
starlet? no flippin way!
if anyone is for a 24h marriage its those.
hyzmarca
Sep 4 2005, 10:54 PM
QUOTE (Erebus @ Sep 4 2005, 03:13 PM) |
QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Sep 4 2005, 02:50 PM) | Prenup, bullet, and not getting married, are good but you shouldn't forget about personafix chips. |
Personafix Chips.... ahh the ol' slot the latest Simporn Starlet chip in the wifes datasocket while she's sleeping gig.... they easy way to your 20th Anniversary.
|
Fixed
And it works for husbands too. Your Shadowrunner wants to retire but doesn't have the funds? Why earn money when you can marry money. Just find a wealthy singly gal or guy, kidnap your spouse to be, and fit him or her with a dedicated internal chipjack.
hobgoblin
Sep 4 2005, 10:56 PM
nice fix, but still the comment stands...
hyzmarca
Sep 4 2005, 10:59 PM
QUOTE (hobgoblin) |
nice fix, but still the comment stands... |
OKay, how about a Scarlet Woman personafix? Or an Amish spouse? With a good BLT programer contact, you should be able to find a personality that suits you.
hobgoblin
Sep 4 2005, 11:01 PM
how about a careing whife? thats all im asking for, a wife thats not all me me me (or more correctly her her her).
hyzmarca
Sep 4 2005, 11:05 PM
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Sep 4 2005, 06:01 PM) |
how about a careing whife? thats all im asking for, a wife thats not all me me me (or more correctly her her her). |
That'll be more expensive and harder to find than mindless joygirl, but it is certainly doable.
I imagine that technomancers have no shortage of dates in 2070, given they can just hack someone PAN and upload a personafix.
Supercilious
Sep 4 2005, 11:14 PM
QUOTE (hyzmarca) |
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Sep 4 2005, 06:01 PM) | how about a careing whife? thats all im asking for, a wife thats not all me me me (or more correctly her her her). |
That'll be more expensive and harder to find than mindless joygirl, but it is certainly doable.
I imagine that technomancers have no shortage of dates in 2070, given they can just hack someone PAN and upload a personafix.
|
I had not thought of that until just now...
Mind control in SR4, I am torn between saying that that is so obviously bulldrek, and that it should be somehow disallowed, to wanting to play a technoshaman.
hyzmarca
Sep 4 2005, 11:49 PM
QUOTE (Supercilious) |
QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Sep 4 2005, 03:05 PM) | QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Sep 4 2005, 06:01 PM) | how about a careing whife? thats all im asking for, a wife thats not all me me me (or more correctly her her her). |
That'll be more expensive and harder to find than mindless joygirl, but it is certainly doable.
I imagine that technomancers have no shortage of dates in 2070, given they can just hack someone PAN and upload a personafix.
|
I had not thought of that until just now...
Mind control in SR4, I am torn between saying that that is so obviously bulldrek, and that it should be somehow disallowed, to wanting to play a technoshaman.
|
Well, with technomancers the victim still has to have cyber. Magicians can use control thoughts on anyone.
Supercilious
Sep 5 2005, 12:01 AM
QUOTE (hyzmarca) |
QUOTE (Supercilious @ Sep 4 2005, 06:14 PM) | QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Sep 4 2005, 03:05 PM) | QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Sep 4 2005, 06:01 PM) | how about a careing whife? thats all im asking for, a wife thats not all me me me (or more correctly her her her). |
That'll be more expensive and harder to find than mindless joygirl, but it is certainly doable.
I imagine that technomancers have no shortage of dates in 2070, given they can just hack someone PAN and upload a personafix.
|
I had not thought of that until just now...
Mind control in SR4, I am torn between saying that that is so obviously bulldrek, and that it should be somehow disallowed, to wanting to play a technoshaman.
|
Well, with technomancers the victim still has to have cyber. Magicians can use control thoughts on anyone.
|
But no one who is no one would be caught without a PAN in SR4, and the digital age allows for all kinds of anonymity thatmagic never had.
I am imagining someone rigging up a now-outdated deck to perform a certain mind-control operation on a large area of people, remotely, with no real evidence left to figure out who left it there...
Omega Skip
Sep 5 2005, 07:53 PM
QUOTE (hyzmarca) |
I imagine that technomancers have no shortage of dates in 2070, given they can just hack someone PAN and upload a personafix.
|
QUOTE (Supercilious) |
I am imagining someone rigging up a now-outdated deck to perform a certain mind-control operation on a large area of people, remotely, with no real evidence left to figure out who left it there...
|
Whoa whoa whoa whoa... is that actually possible in SR4? In what ballpark would that be, difficulty-wise - easy, medium, hard, "yeah, right"?
not really. for one, they'd have to all be using trodes. apparently, in SR4, non-DNI interaction with the Matrix is more commonplace than in SR3. more importantly, you can't use trode-delivered ASIST to rewrite brains that quickly. the function of psychotropic IC (at least in SR3) points toward the idea that it'd be phenomenally difficult to actually control a subject through ASIST, given how hard it is to just plant post-hypnotic suggestions in them. as well, the memory-rewriting machines from CC takes a long time just to alter stuff that already exists in the brain. quickly altering stuff that's forming in the brain from moment to moment? not going to happen.
if you could find a bunch of people with implanted commlinks, i guess it might work. but i can't imagine that somebody wouldn't notice all that highly-illegal code flowing through the airwaves.
hyzmarca
Sep 5 2005, 10:29 PM
I think it would work best for meeting people in bars and uploading a bunraku-style P-fix into their PANs. So long as the target as a sim modual, it wouldn't matter if the comlink is implanted or not. I expect sim moduals to be fairly common.
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