Not what I was talking about, even if it uses the same rules. I was referring to "Side Step" which is in SotA 2064. It uses different rules than combat sense and isn't a SR4 rule being retroverted. By the way, I would use the time 2070 if I was for some odd reason referring to the SR4 book by timeframe.

Well, obviously there's only so much you can do to make him tougher before he ceases to bear any resemblance to your original character idea.

You might want to think about taking a few points out of your adept powers (maybe even lowering Improved Reflexes from II to I) and using them to improve your attributes instead - basically, consider which you'll have an easier time improving with karma after character creation, and what you want to spend karma on to develop the character. (if you can survive long enough to initiate once, for example, you'll be able to - IIRC - boost Body to 5 for one power point. On the other hand, if you're dead-set on raising skills first and foremost, and would like to spend that power point on them, you might need to look for point elsewhere to raise your Body and/or Strength)

As far as stealth goes - a good stealth score and Traceless Step are great but... what do you plan on having the character *do* once he sneaks in somewhere, if all he can do is shoot? Unless you're willing to invest into the breaking and entering skill set, or can hack into computers, or have the melee skills to silently disable sentries, an extremely high stealth skill isn't all that helpful. True, you can use it just to get a jump on people in combat, but good tactics and cover are more use there than anything else, and the investment of power points into Traceless Step isn't really necessary. I'd encourage dropping it unless it's central to the character concept.

Guns... For pistols you can basically go either of two ways - high concealability, or high ammo capacity. There's not much to differentiate the stock SR heavy pistols otherwise - they all have the same range and damage. That's if you don't go for something highly unusual, like an Ares Viper Slivergun... Whatever you decide on, get quick-draw concealable holsters (character concept aside, you just can't get away with walking around with two guns hanging from your belt in 90% of places), different types of ammo, like Ex-Ex and gel rounds to increase your damage and be able to take people down through less-lethal means, and some recoil compensation for your guns (1 point per gun should be enough, but I'd suggest double-checking) - not having uncompensated recoil is vital when using two pistols.

As far as secondary firearm skills go - I think you should take either pistols or SMGs, and since you already have the former, that basically leaves ARs and Shotguns to choose from... I'm a fan of assault rifles - in large part because of their excellent range, and because you can put a grenade launcher on one - but if you use the SR3 canon rules for shotguns, they're absurdly powerful weapons and worth looking into as well.

Oh, and social skills are always a good idea, of course - at the very least, you'd want some points in etiquette(street).

A SPAS-22 is a great weapon - if you like it, stick with it. (there are reasons for going either way - the SPAS will definitely do more damage than the AR, but will have a shorter range and much lower ammo capacity - the question is, what's more important to you?)

As far as stats go, two things:

1. It's my opinion that a 7 in quickness in wasted on an adept - it's only really helpful for raising skills with karma to more than 6, but you can do that much easier and faster by initiating and using your adept powers directly to get extra dice in the skills. You're better off with the extra point in Intelligence - your reaction and CP stay the same, but you have better perception and more knowledge skills.

2. A 4 in Willpower is certainly playable (did it once with a character who was good at not being seen...), but it can be like a big "kick me" sign if you go up against a mage... You really should think hard about leaving it that low. Remember - adepts can always boost physical abilities with powers, but not mental ones...

Still, in the end, it comes down to what fits your character concept.

Nah, not really... Remember, if you were playing a character that used cyber or bioware, you could easily have some stats at 10 - or more, if you played the right meta-type.

Adepts generally pay for how easy they are to advance in play (and for having ungodly skill levels) with fewer overall goodies and lower abilities than cyber-oriented fighters at character generation.

Also, standard starting SR3 characters are much more exceptional and competent than their D&D counterparts by design - you're supposed to be able to play a very competent professional from the get-go.

And raising Strength won't help that. Due to the way Shadowrun handles melee combat - particularly, the overwhelming effect of TN modifiers - anyone with even one point in a melee skill will mop the floor with basically anyone without one. (A maxed-out cybertroll might be able to throw enough dice at the problem to overcome the huge TN penalty imposed by defaulting to Strength, but no one else has a chance.)

A point or two in a melee skill to put you on the right side of the skilled vs. unskilled divide is a good idea, but it's not worth getting more than that. Unless you're going to totally focus your character on melee, you just have to accept that if you get into melee with people who know how to do it, they're going to clean your clock. The solution is not to try to keep up with them in melee at the expense of your own specialties, but to trump their specialties with your own, and put a hole in them before they get close enough to engage you in melee to begin with.

...it will, however, let you spend more points on a melee skill without penalty, and score hits that won't automatically be ignored. I'm pretty sure ophanimx got the point...

No reason set in stone why he couldn't - it'll just have the predictable consequences of being an ex-cop turned criminal: a lot of criminals will not trust you (or distrust you a lot more than usual, depending on how you look at it) and cops will hate you for it.

If you do go with that background, you should probably take some flaws to reflect it. (I guess in a way, you already have, with that dossier flaw)

I think the point really should be that, when he's confronted by melee combat, he should focus on Dodging the attack... and then getting the hell out of melee range.

Trying to go toe-to-toe with someone built for melee is suicide. He should play to his strengths, not attempt to shore up a very weak point.

Absolutely on both counts.

If you get the smartlink you should consider getting electronic VisMag 3, freeing up .25 power points for something else. Likewise with the flare compensation. Leave thermovision as a power, since it counts as natural that way.

~J

Actually, I think that every character that plans on getting into combat should have unarmed combat at least at 4 - because then you don't need to let every punk who decides to take a swing at you dictate your tactics, and if forced into melee combat with someone good at it, you can minimize the damage you'll take if unable to dodge - either because you're out of CP or due to tactical considerations.

I'm also now (after having one character run into (on separate occasions) 4 cybernetically enhanced dobermans and 3 or 4 wasp spirits) a firm believer in 4 points in polearms with specialization in extendable staff, just as a safety precaution.

But it's not worth taking a 7 in quickness and a 5 in intelligence - rather than 6's in both - just so you can wear this specific armor combo. Replace the armored jacket with an armored vest with plates, and you end up with 6 ballistic / 5 impact.

Armour vest with plates 4/3
Rapid Transit Heavy Jumpsuit 2/4

Total effective: 5/5

And dont forget that while the Impact total is still 7, you will still need Q7 to avoid losing combat pool.

He also had FFBA in there, hence 6 ballistic, 5 impact. Though I did make a mistake thinking the armor vest was 4/2 instead of 4/3 - not that it matters, just replace it with a secure ultra-vest, a lined coat, or a secure long coat.

...and if I use the same layering rules as you (I generally assume the most conservative ones - only two of the pieces of armor counted for layering) and say he's wearing a secure long coat instead of the armored vest, I get the same armor rating of 7/5, and only need a quickness of 6.

Now if you'd like to come up with some solid reasons why that quickness of 7 and a 5 in some mental stat is more worthwhile than a quickness of 6 and intelligence or willpower of 6 (especially for an adept), then help the guy out and do so, instead of wasting time on this pointless pissing match.

Well, then, why did you say:

The vest is 4/3 rather than 4/2 like the lined coat in my example, but the math works out the same as far as final armor is concerned, however you calculate layering. Since you can't get 7/5 with this setup unless you factor in all three armor pieces for layering purposes, I assumed that's what you did - 4 from FFBA, 2 from the vest, 1 from the RT suit, even though I feel you only should count the highest two. Did you get the vest with plates and the armored/secure jacket mixed up?