Full Version: Who do you geek second?
| QUOTE (Sabosect) |
| I geek the other magically-active character. IME, every group has at least two. |
I once had a run with four mages, one shaman and myself - a ki-ad.
The mage, unless there's a bigger threat.
Then the mage, unless there's a bigger threat.
(repeat until there are no mages)
But we deal with a lot of magic.
Bigger threats: (In order of priority)
Dragons (even ones fighting other dragons)
Regenerating cyberzombie trolls possessed by toxic fire elementals
Powerful free spirits
Regenerating cats that spit lightning bolts
Anyone with 1.0 essence or less, in the form of having less than 33% of their body organic. (The only two people we've fought like that have been very, very nasty)
Then the mage, unless there's a bigger threat.
(repeat until there are no mages)
But we deal with a lot of magic.
Bigger threats: (In order of priority)
Dragons (even ones fighting other dragons)
Regenerating cyberzombie trolls possessed by toxic fire elementals
Powerful free spirits
Regenerating cats that spit lightning bolts
Anyone with 1.0 essence or less, in the form of having less than 33% of their body organic. (The only two people we've fought like that have been very, very nasty)
We don't even "geek the mage" first. We take a look at the opposition, and make a quick ROI calculation.
There are two factors -- how fast can I disable them, and how much damage can they do to our team? The target with the most optimal intersection of those two factors is the one that gets hit. You select targets that will reduce the enemy unit's combat effectiveness most rapidly.
Often times, this is the mage, but fact is, if that mage has heavy military grade armor on and a glowing blue aura, chances are you should try to determine if there's someone who can also do a lot of damage who is an easier mark. Oh, and at the same time, have your mage drop a lot of dice into shielding.
There are two factors -- how fast can I disable them, and how much damage can they do to our team? The target with the most optimal intersection of those two factors is the one that gets hit. You select targets that will reduce the enemy unit's combat effectiveness most rapidly.
Often times, this is the mage, but fact is, if that mage has heavy military grade armor on and a glowing blue aura, chances are you should try to determine if there's someone who can also do a lot of damage who is an easier mark. Oh, and at the same time, have your mage drop a lot of dice into shielding.
Fireball/manaball the lot and pick off survivors 
"Remember, TacNuke means never having to say you're sorry.."
Well two nukes to be sure, their trauma dampers and platelet factories might bring the damage of your first nuke down to a mere 8 boxes...
Make that 2 nukes before he get an action, dealing 8 boxes again after his Guardian Angel kicks in and magically heals himself is such a loosing proposition.
That's what the naval damage rules are for.
~J
~J
Remember kids, rules about economy of weapon price vs. target never applies to Shadowrunners.
"A hundred-thousand nuyen cruise missile is a small price to pay for your own continued survival."
"A hundred-thousand nuyen cruise missile is a small price to pay for your own continued survival."
The hard part is just acquiring the plutonium, after that assembling the bomb is a piece of cake.
As someone on one of the in-game quotes threads said...
"Nuke the site from orbit...it's the ONLY way to be sure."
EDIT: Gyro--I know that, thanks. I saw it when it was released back in 1986.
Whoever borrowed it also mentioned the source.
Hmmm. Is there an SR equivalent to the D&D universe's ultimate Doomsday weapon, the "DM Fireball"?
I suppose a Thor shot would count, but what about a magical equivalent?
--Foreigner
"Nuke the site from orbit...it's the ONLY way to be sure."
EDIT: Gyro--I know that, thanks. I saw it when it was released back in 1986.
Whoever borrowed it also mentioned the source.
Hmmm. Is there an SR equivalent to the D&D universe's ultimate Doomsday weapon, the "DM Fireball"?
I suppose a Thor shot would count, but what about a magical equivalent?
--Foreigner
It's actually a quote from Aliens.
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| That's what the naval damage rules are for. ~J |
Naval damage is usually too low to work against PCs with Immunity. Unless you used a strategic nuke.
Unless the PCs are suddenly naval-scale themselves, you need to convert before comparing against INW (which sends Power into the stratosphere, as well as dealing more than ten boxes and allowing one-hit kills even against people with trauma dampers and platlet factories). That said, the strategic nuke still works
~J
~J
It depends. If the GM converts before comparing, then it can deal the damage. But if the GM rules that comparing comes first, the PCs are safe. It is GM interpretation on which rule is applied first.
Page 57, Rigger 3: "When anti-ship weapons are used against characters or vehicles, the weapon's ship Damage Code must be converted to a standard Damage Code"
Note "converted". They're on a different scale completely—to say that the GM may compare before converting is to say that the GM may also look at the thermometer, read that it is 15° Centigrade, and declare that it is below freezing before converting to Fahrenheit simply because the number used is under 32.
Edit: In addition (and perhaps most tellingly), the "Resolve Damage Resistance Tests as normal" step is both explicit and after the conversion.
~J
Note "converted". They're on a different scale completely—to say that the GM may compare before converting is to say that the GM may also look at the thermometer, read that it is 15° Centigrade, and declare that it is below freezing before converting to Fahrenheit simply because the number used is under 32.
Edit: In addition (and perhaps most tellingly), the "Resolve Damage Resistance Tests as normal" step is both explicit and after the conversion.
~J
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| Unless the PCs are suddenly naval-scale themselves. |
So, what is the body difference between an average troll and Gojira for the purpose of calculating a Shapechange TN?
I have this picture in my head of PCs transforming into Toho monsters and wading around in Seatle harbor. I can't get it out.
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| Page 57, Rigger 3: "When anti-ship weapons are used against characters or vehicles, the weapon's ship Damage Code must be converted to a standard Damage Code" Note "converted". They're on a different scale completely—to say that the GM may compare before converting is to say that the GM may also look at the thermometer, read that it is 15° Centigrade, and declare that it is below freezing before converting to Fahrenheit simply because the number used is under 32. Edit: In addition (and perhaps most tellingly), the "Resolve Damage Resistance Tests as normal" step is both explicit and after the conversion. ~J |
Yes, but nowhere in that quote does anything about Immunity to Normal Weapons appear. So the GM may say that the rule for INW is applied before the rule for conversion is applied. INW is not damage resistance, although there are parts of the INW rules that apply to that. INW only cares about the Power of the attack, it does not care about whether the attack is Naval or not. Whether to convert first or not is a GM call, though it is logical to convert first(but bear in mind, many things in SR is not logical anyway).
Locate the rigger with your Signal Locator...
Next, Geek the drone which usually dumpshocks the rigger...
Send your sammie/tech with electronics skill and a datajack to the rigger's vehicle...
Hack the maglock (praying it isn't wired to blow the vehicle up)....
Open the door...
Shoot the dumpshocked rigger....
Dump the body out...
Jack in and steal the vehicle (you don't get control pool but you can still turn the autonav on)...
Now you can feel free to shoot the rest of the team.
Next, Geek the drone which usually dumpshocks the rigger...
Send your sammie/tech with electronics skill and a datajack to the rigger's vehicle...
Hack the maglock (praying it isn't wired to blow the vehicle up)....
Open the door...
Shoot the dumpshocked rigger....
Dump the body out...
Jack in and steal the vehicle (you don't get control pool but you can still turn the autonav on)...
Now you can feel free to shoot the rest of the team.
Question: where do you find the time to send your sammie/tech with electronics skill and a datajack twenty kilometers away to where the rigger is parked?
Note that that's bypassing the question of how you geek the drone in the first place…
~J
Note that that's bypassing the question of how you geek the drone in the first place…
~J
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| Question: where do you find the time to send your sammie/tech with electronics skill and a datajack twenty kilometers away to where the rigger is parked? Note that that's bypassing the question of how you geek the drone in the first place… ~J |
Bah, don't bother.
1. Hack into rigger's network.
2. Use network to locate rigger's position.
3. Indirect fire. (Missile, Seeker Mortar, Seeker Howitzer, whatever)
...
X. Profit!
Dude, have you read the encryption rules?
| CODE |
| while patience>=0: Hack into rigger's network. time.sleep(25 minutes) Realize that you haven't rolled the three 7s necessary to hack into the Rigger's network patience -= 1 |
is more like it.
~J
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| Question: where do you find the time to send your sammie/tech with electronics skill and a datajack twenty kilometers away to where the rigger is parked? Note that that's bypassing the question of how you geek the drone in the first place… ~J |
Now I'm still talking in SR3 terms here
Geeking the drone:
1. Airburst IPE Grenade or (in the case of a high in the sky drone) shoulder launched rocket/missile - Most drones (particularly airborne ones) have little or no armour and a low body (usually 1 or 2). If the Rigger is in Captain's chair mode, the drone only has it's autopilot to defend against the attack. Unless it is a Wanjina, Rotodrone or Dalmation (all of which are pretty obvious to the authroities when flying around) it will be only lightly armed at best.
2. If, in the case of an airborne drone, there is not the sufficient firepower to take it down, an Air Spirit or Wind Elemental (accident/force the drone down) could take it out or at least keep it and the rigger busy long enough for the sammy to get there. the distraction should provide the sam enough cover to pop the door & take the rigger out while he is still jacked into the drone.
Dealing with the Rigger:
In most of my experiences the Rigger is usually parked a couple of blocks away at most since he/she is also providing the team's only means of making a getaway should things go south.
A Sammy on a bike could get there in no time especially if sent before the drone is encountered/taken out. If the Rigger cuts & runs, this is just as good for he's just left his buddies behind with no support.
Though those are often good countermeasures, they aren't foolproof. If the drone isn't being controlled by a Rigger it's no threat anyway (not to mention that taking it down won't cause dumpshock).
As for the Rigger, the simple answer to that is "drone car near the rest of the team". There's very little need for a Rigger to be anywhere nearby, though I'll grant you they frequently are anyway. Lastly, sending someone to crack a vehicle with a Rigger inside it is essentially a suicide mission—if the Rigger gets wind of what they're up to (and it is amazingly easy to do so), the cracking character is going to be so much roadkill.
There are ways to fight Riggers. Attacking the meat body is a good one.
Counting on finding the meat body and then stealing the Rigger's vehicle out from under them is not.
~J
As for the Rigger, the simple answer to that is "drone car near the rest of the team". There's very little need for a Rigger to be anywhere nearby, though I'll grant you they frequently are anyway. Lastly, sending someone to crack a vehicle with a Rigger inside it is essentially a suicide mission—if the Rigger gets wind of what they're up to (and it is amazingly easy to do so), the cracking character is going to be so much roadkill.
There are ways to fight Riggers. Attacking the meat body is a good one.
Counting on finding the meat body and then stealing the Rigger's vehicle out from under them is not.
~J
Our team developed a healthy respect for Cyber Zombies... to the extent the CyberZombie went ahead Blood Mages on our priority target list.
There's nothing like dropping a building on a Cyberzombie with shaped charges, and then having it immediately jump unscathed into your lap and introduce itself to your Team.
There's nothing like dropping a building on a Cyberzombie with shaped charges, and then having it immediately jump unscathed into your lap and introduce itself to your Team.
| QUOTE (Mortax) | ||
 Wow. I like that. In all honesty, we don't always geek the mage first. My first shot is at whoever I think the tactician is. After that, the mage and the speed demon are next. Picking out the tactition is hard, but usually he is the rigger or the guy with the long gun. |
Oh, c'mon now. You know we always gun for the most unobtrusive guy first. He tends to be the Flesh Form Ant Spirit in our games.
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