I did do a search back as far as possible on Summon Elemental, but the topic titles for the hits I got did not look like they covered my question.

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SR3 p.186 says: "A master need not use all the services of an elemental at once. At the time of its summoning, an elemental is bound to respond to calls from its master. The elemental then departs, vanishing from the physical and astral planes altogether until is is called."

I have run into a gaming group that insists that a mage's elementals sit there within x meters all the time, continuously, until their services are used up. When I point to the above, they shrug and dismiss it with, "Then how does an elemental appear inside an astral barrier?" This also goes to legality, as in the city we're playing in, you cannot legally have an elemental of higher than force 3, and since your elementals are all sitting right there continously, any authority that assenses you and picks up an elemental at higher that force 3 has busted you. They also don't seem to play the Exclusive Complex Action required to make the Elemental appear, either (its sitting there, so you can order it to do whatever, whenever).

Naturally, we are playing it the way the GM wishes. I didn't get to ask a whole lot of questions, because I wasn't interested in arguing it out other than going, "Uh, what? What about, <here in the rules>?" So I never got around to asking how Elementals can follow a mage across astral barriers.

My question to the board is: Has anybody ever heard of or otherwise played an interpretation of the SR3 Elemental Summoning rules such as I have described here?

Is this sort of thing common and I'm just a newbie, or what?

The gaming group is wrong. Slap them until they actually read the section in question.

~J

Thank you, all.

My GM is unlikely to change her mind, and I'm certainly not showing her this topic.*

But the previous has been most helpful at settling my mind.


* Earlier this evening I went out to a movie with another friend of mine who used to play with the group in question. We had quite a discussion about it. Apparently they've played it that way for years.

If your group doesn't understand the concept of an elemental metaplane (i.e. that place elementals go to while you don't need them) ask them where they think elementals comes from? Is there a huge pile of elementals somewhere just standing around waiting to be called?

The breakdown of rules on how long it takes to give an elemental commands and how long it takes to call one into standby are pretty clear. Your GM shouldn't have a problem changing her mind, once she realizes she is wrong. Reread the section on summoning spirits and commanding them, everything is there.

SR3 p186 explicitly states as you know, in the second paragraph of "binding elementals" : "A master need not use all the services of an elemental at once. At the time of the summoning, an elemental is bound to respond to calls from its master. The elemental then departs, vanishing from the physical and astral plan altogether until it is called."

Doesn't get much clearer than that. If she won't conceed, I recomend a good slap.

Sunday

Slap harder. It fixes all such problems.

~J

Seriously, sit down with her (not in front of the rest of the group) and go over the relative parts of the books together and see if you can get her to see the light. The books are reasonable clear on the subject, and what she's doing doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

If you need ammunition, there is specific language in Magic in the Shadows on page 96 and page 98:

I must be closer with my gaming buddies than you are because a good slap is considered a perfectly legitimate argument when someone is presented with clear and obvious proof of something and yet they chose the "plug my ears and go lalalalalala" argument.

It's one thing to say " I understand that's how it's supposed to work but I want to run it this way." house rules. I am however a little worried about someone outright refuting what is clearly expressed in the rule book. That just speaks to me as to someone general mindset and would probably turn me off the game, but again, personal preferences.

Sufficed to say if slapping this dizzy girl would get you into trouble, avoid that.

Sunday

No, it doesn't use a service. Calling an elemental to your presence doesn't take a service normally, and there's no more effort for it to arrive inside an astral barrier than it does outside one. Similarly, telling it to bugger off until you need it again doesn't constitute a service.

Another rules bit that might help your discussion with the GM.

If you'll reread the section quoted above, there is that specific instance where calling a spirit uses up a service. It's a rule with no justification save game balance, but there you go.

~J

Now I feel like an idiot. Never noticed that final sentance before. Thanks for the heads up.

One of the great strengths of Elementals is that they are always there for you when you want 'em. Same as nature spirits (although to a lesser extent- they don't 'follow you' as much). They don't form out of the 'matter' of astral space, which is just a different plane of perception, they come from ...elsewhere... maybe France...or Xanadu... or The Albion Hotel (for all you Guelphites)...
At any rate they are are from a Metaplane, NOT the astral Plane an wouldn't be affected by an Astral Shield or Ward.

They're...different...