My history with CGL, Why I think things are better now Options

[Patrick Goodman]

Oh, and since it appears I forgot in my meat dissertation: You're welcome.

[kzt]

(Oh, did I mention you've got an audience? You don't just get to sit at your table and try it in peace. No, that would be too easy.)

Yup. You get to eat it sitting on a raised platform where everyone in that room of the restaurant can watch you. And it's a pretty big room.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Anyone know (Patrick?) what the price tag on that baby is if you cannot eat it in the allotted 60 Minutes?

[Patrick Goodman]

The challenge dinner is currently $72. The economy and all....

[Backgammon]

Oh, look, thread necromancy.

There's a lot of yammering in the 5E Wish List thread about pay rates and such like. I don't normally do this, but in the interests of transparency, I'll entertain questions about what I make, my process, and what it costs me to write for SR. I will entertain questions only about my personal situation, and I reserve the right to not answer you if you come across as an annoying git.

So, that said: Fire it up. What, if anything, do you want to know?

Since I went through all the trouble of compiling metrics for when I wrote Montreal 2074, may as well share it. Now, Montreal is a PDF release, which means the author is paid less. You also get more leeway, especially in terms of deadlines, so this is just fine by me. All PDF only releases pay a flat fee, which in my case was 100$. Now, Montreal came out at around 16,500 words, but the more important metric is time. It took me 34 hours to write this. Now, in this time, I include research, writing, re-writing and self-proofreading, so Im not just talking about fingers-on keyboard time.

So, this comes out to a pay of about 3$ an hour. If instead of writing Montreal 2074 I'd worked overtime in my regular job, I would have had enough money to buy myself a 5 day stay in Cancun, including airfare.

So, yeah, didn't do it for the money. I, in fact, would gladly trade any vacation for the feeling I got when Montreal 2074 came out to great reviews.

[Lionhearted]

You write fast (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

[Shortstraw]

Speaking of beef, a cow costs two grand and gives 500+ pounds of beef so why is meat expensive in SR?

[Backgammon]

You write fast (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

Depends how you look at it. Those 34 hours were spread over almost 8 months, as all I can manage is up to 2 hours a week. So, plenty of time to think about what I want to write in between the time of actually writing it.

[Critias]

You write fast (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

I...huh. Okay. What would you consider average (or even slow)?

[Lionhearted]

Given the context it's not as impressive.
Still that's 60+ pages with literary (and literal) worth in a work week. For someone that doesn't write, that seems like a lot.

[ChromeZephyr]

Out of curiosity, how much of that 34 hours was research?

[Backgammon]

Couldn't say. Obviously, as a native, I already knew much of what I needed in this case. For things I wanted to look up, I would be writing a paragraph or something, and go "hmm..." and fire up Google or whatever other resource, so the research time is really knit into the writing time, I couldn't definitively separate the two.

[kzt]

Speaking of beef, a cow costs two grand and gives 500+ pounds of beef so why is meat expensive in SR?

Frank Trollman's suggestion was that every so often you get an awakened farm animal. Like a rooster that's a basilisk.... So it's dangerous to be a farmer and they charge well.

[Bull]

I'll jump in and offer to answer questions regarding Missions work or my writing for other products if anyone cares, at least as much as I can (THere's some info that I have access too as a developer that I probably can't share, but anything that involves my personal work I'd be willing to share).

Bull

[hermit]

@Patrick Goodman
How tight is coordination between the overall vision (whatever and however this is mapped out) and the authors? Do they get a rough guideline (do something with Bogotá, explosions and green-skinned elves on Wyverns) or is it more detailed (describe in your book how Puck escapes and how plots 2 through 7 and 11 in the plot bible play into this)?

@Bull
1) Will the Ork Underground sourcebook still happen? I had to ask, because I am really looking forward to it.
2) Where will the next season of missions be?

Also, roosters may become cockatrices, but not basilisks. Basilisks are awakened iguanas. I think, though, the expensiveness of real meat in Shadowrun is more linked to the fact that there is precious little meat farmed for the sake of soy, and because of militant animal-rights policlubs who kill people who farm meat unless they invest in ridiculous security.

[CanRay]

Frank Trollman's suggestion was that every so often you get an awakened farm animal. Like a rooster that's a basilisk.... So it's dangerous to be a farmer and they charge well.

Yeah, but that was Frank Trollman. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

To be fair, my group just faced some Paracritters and found them not to be something to be taken lightly at all. They're loading up on Hollowpoints and Flechette ammo now, just in case. Although some Paracritters do have armor built-in.

And without knowing Frank said that, I've stated the very same thing to my group, and they agreed that it's a good reason for Drone Farms.

[Bull]

@Bull
1) Will the Ork Underground sourcebook still happen? I had to ask, because I am really looking forward to it.

Yes. I just need to finish the damn thing. It was initially started by another author, who had to drop out of the project. That caused the initial delay. But since I'm determined to see this product come out, I picked it up, but it's one of those projects I work on in my free time. And at this point, sections that were done need to be redone a bit in wake of the Prop 23 stuff, since that will have a big effect on the OU.

2) Where will the next season of missions be?

Chicago. We announced this at Gen Con, and I hope to have something out later this month with more details about the story arc themes and when we hope Season 5 will start.

Bull

[bannockburn]

I will buy that supplement the second it comes out. Which reminds me, I still need to read up on the P23 resolution. Well, maybe after we've played it, to compare it ^^

[Shortstraw]

So Bull is season 5 going to be 5th edition to give us something to try out the new edition?

[Bull]

So Bull is season 5 going to be 5th edition to give us something to try out the new edition?

Yes

[Patrick Goodman]

@Patrick Goodman
How tight is coordination between the overall vision (whatever and however this is mapped out) and the authors? Do they get a rough guideline (do something with Bogotá, explosions and green-skinned elves on Wyverns) or is it more detailed (describe in your book how Puck escapes and how plots 2 through 7 and 11 in the plot bible play into this)?

Mostly it's rough guidelines. The project specification document says, "This sourcebook is going to address such-and-such an issue, and there are the plots that we anticipate it dealing with." Then it comes to the writers, and they say, "Okay, I'd like to deal with this, this, and this." And then things mutate. The last contract I got, which I can't talk about yet, I didn't even plan to pitch anything for because i didn't see how my interests fit into the project spec. Then one night in a chat, Jason asked me, "You going to do anything for this book? We really need some information on X." And I said, "Oh, really?" and tossed together what was probably my weakest proposal for a Shadowrun project in more than a decade, which was basically, "Two vampires walk into a room. Hilarity ensues."

I actually used "Hilarity ensues" in the proposal. Damned if he didn't go for it anyway. And damned if the piece didn't turn out to be one of my favorite things I've done for the game in the 13+ years I've been associated with it.

I digress. Sorry about that.

Anyway, the book is mutable to a point because different writers will interpret the spec in a certain way, and when they sell their idea, the book changes to accomodate the proposal. It still has to fit into the main theme of the book, but it doesn't have to slavishly adhere to something in the project spec if the proposed idea was cooler. We have a set destination, but the route we take to get there is up to us.

Most of us have our pet plots and such. Rusty's more diverse than I am, for instance, but if it's got to do with the Tir or urban brawl, we generally defer to him or, if he's not writing that chunk on the Tir, we at least try to consult him. People come to me (if they want to) when they include the Infected because, intentionally or not, I've become "the Infected guy" (no jokes).

So it's basically Jason herding cats, and the cats generally try to work together ... but at the end of the day, it's still a herd of cats. There's not a Plot Bible, per se, though we do keep a running tally, and every now and then we look at something and realize that we haven't touched something in a while.

Did that answer any of your questions? If I missed anything, or made things even cloudier, tell me and I'll try to clear it up. Maybe I'll even have the sense to do it during the day, with some caffeine in me.

[Wakshaani]

Yes. I just need to finish the damn thing. It was initially started by another author, who had to drop out of the project. That caused the initial delay. But since I'm determined to see this product come out, I picked it up, but it's one of those projects I work on in my free time. And at this point, sections that were done need to be redone a bit in wake of the Prop 23 stuff, since that will have a big effect on the OU.

Bull

You know I'm up to chip in on this one, if you need anything, amigo. Your plate's full and mine's kinda empty right now. Always happy to help.

As for the Thing, I've had the pleasure of looking over Patrick's next writing and rather quite enjoyed it. I bounced some stuff about Texas off him, and made some pretty large changes in some areas with his feedback. I bother James far more than is probably healthy to make sure certain things line up with estabished history. I hate changing things that came before, but I'm willing to grow 'em from established stuff. Retcons are the very last thing I want, but you can choose new directions as long as you honor the starting point. Cord Mutual Tower getting new ownership, for instance. Should there have been a five hundred story tower in Atlanta that housed an insurance firm and possibly an AI in 2051? Maybe, maybe not. But in 2074, it's there under new ownership and waiting for plot hooks.

Research is probably two hours for every hour spent writing in my case, maybe more as I write quickly. When you're paid on word count, research is on your own dime. On the plus side, a goodly chunk of research is in old Shadowrun books, so quite enjoyable. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[All4BigGuns]

I do not even know how much an oz is in proper weight measurements. Metric System! Do you speak it?! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Metric? Real? Hah! Come back to the real and better measurement system.

[Neraph]

So, that said: Fire it up. What, if anything, do you want to know?

People come to me (if they want to) when they include the Infected because, intentionally or not, I've become "the Infected guy" (no jokes).

Not so much something I want to know, but I'd like you to know: I'd be honored to be used as a resource in this arena. I like to think that I've had an impression here on this board (people referring some of my guides and a quote of mine even making someone's signature make me feel accomplished - in the wide, crazy expanse of the internet there's a small corner that knows me, all Cheers-like) and I know that Ancient History at least had been influenced by some of my work (his expanded magic guide he was working on so many years ago [2010, really? Doesn't feel like so long ago] included a shout-out to my Ally spirit thread). I'd also like to think I have a good head for the Infected in particular, magic in general, the matrix to a degree, and the rest of the bits and pieces of the game as they lay.

And, since resources are not paid, it would be unthinkable for me to ask for any sort of gain other than feeling the satisfaction of improving something. I'd like to be able to point to something in a book and say "I helped create that," even if the creation process were informal.

[Halinn]

Will more SR4 books come out, or are things pushed along so that they'll land in 5th?