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Serbitar
System's guide to paranoia

Have fun. Comments would be nice. Work still in progress.
Crusher Bob
Some typos, 'tom' appears a few places where 'to' should. You'll probably want to also address RFID tracking. The RFID in the candybar (or whatever) you bought has got to be shut down. The RFID in your medkit has probably been to some interesting places...

Thankfully, a few moments in the microwave fixes RFIDs just dandy. (or a quick sweep with that crowd control gun).

Oh and multiple anon services, in series, not just one, and in different legal jurisdictions, to add friction to any legal attempts to track you.

Next, getting secure equipment, if you can't do it for yourself, how to pick someone trushtworthy who can?

Of couse, you should also encourage errors in the system. The more errors there are in the sysem, the better chance your fake data has of getting through.

Next, social engineering. Carrying a clipboard and look like you know what you are doing.

Map dead zones and spam zones, so that you can know the quickest routes to them.

Get some data seach agents up and running in areas you frequent, have them give reports on any unusualy acitivty. Is there anyone following you around?
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (Crusher Bob)
Thankfully, a few moments in the microwave fixes RFIDs just dandy.  (or a quick sweep with that crowd control gun).

Or get a Tag Eraser wink.gif
Dutchy
Nice. Go on.
Squinky
Good read, Thanks.
ambidextrous
Style guides would say that if you don't indent each paragraph then put a space between them. It increases the readability.
Serbitar
Thanks for the constructive feedback. I'll try to add them in future version.
Maybe I'll add some hints for gamemasters, too.
Dutchy
Mhmm, maybe a german translation? wink.gif
Serbitar
Na, I wrote it in my poor English, so that everybody coould read it. Hm, maybe I'll transalte it it to German when its a litte bit more "done".
Serbitar
Updeted to Version 1.1
Additional stuff and lots of fixes

If anybody has topics that shoudlbe included, feel free to post
(Im still writing up stuff that crusher bob suggested)
Jrayjoker
Very nice. Thanks.
cndblank
Don't forget care and feeding of your Good Fake SIN.

If it doesn't have a certain level of activity on it, then the first hacker to take a good look at it will know it is a fake.

I can see agents creating a false trail to keep the SIN looking "Lived-in". Not to mention creating an alibi.
morlock76
You really hit the nail there I have to say.
Very much reflects my idea of life in SR4 for a runner, as well as Joe 2070.

The drop on the go point of view does / should come into mind with equipment, too.

You cant afford to keep the gun you used 10 times already, or the car you used to chase someone.

If ppl claim we have a "throw away era" now, I can imagine 2070 that even more.

My chars will have that thought in mind when I build em.

Cant trust it? Toss it.

(Check into the car jack thread, you may find some ideas / topics there, too.)

Otherwise, keep up the great work. This will be a handout for my players smile.gif
Shadow_Prophet
QUOTE (morlock76)
...

You cant afford to keep the gun you used 10 times already, or the car you used to chase someone.

...

Sure you can. Just use explosive, or ex explosive rounds or flechete. Not enough to realy get a traceable piece off of.
blakkie
QUOTE (Shadow_Prophet @ Sep 22 2005, 07:55 AM)
QUOTE (morlock76 @ Sep 22 2005, 06:34 AM)
...

You cant afford to keep the gun you used 10 times already, or the car you used to chase someone.

...

Sure you can. Just use explosive, or ex explosive rounds or flechete. Not enough to realy get a traceable piece off of.

I wouldn't be so sure about the EX rounds. Given the advancements in the magical tech of SR piecing the jigsaw puzzle of the fragments back together doesn't seem like too much of a stretch. Mind you that isn't likely to happen on low profile situations, but anywhere someone of importance dies, or could have died. Especially if they are rich enough to pay for the forensics themselves.

I remember when years back when those first 2L Pepsi bottles had a habit of exploding like a frag grenade when they rolled and fell over. I saw a bottle that had been put back together after it had completely shattered. I likely took someone days to do, but there was a LOT of money at stake.

Even now just standard shredding of documents isn't enough because someone can just scan all the pieces in and get software to reasssemble it. Fifteen years ago that would be something happening for special cases at Langly or something. Roll forward 65 years from now and it isn't be hard to envision you'll have 3d microscopic scan of all the slug fragments they could find being reassembled by computer. This is even partially being done today after slugs are deformed they still can try match groves. It's just that it is computationally intensive to work back to a pre-deformed/pre-fragmented grove pattern, therefore reduced accuracy due to shortcuts taken, so they need bigger pieces to work with.
Shadow_Prophet
Meh, considering they'd be looking at a bullet thats designed to essentialy explode and fragment, I'm prety sure there'd be more than enough deformation going on that there wouldn't be much if any grooves left on the fragments that are decernible.
NightmareX
The AVS, an assassin's best friend. cool.gif (Unless the manufacturers put mircotagents of some such crap in the duraplast/metal of the flechettes) frown.gif
Shadow_Prophet
QUOTE (NightmareX)
The AVS, an assassin's best friend. cool.gif (Unless the manufacturers put mircotagents of some such crap in the duraplast/metal of the flechettes) frown.gif

Then just make sure to switch batches of ammo in between hits
blakkie
QUOTE (Shadow_Prophet @ Sep 22 2005, 08:29 AM)
QUOTE (NightmareX @ Sep 22 2005, 09:24 AM)
The AVS, an assassin's best friend.   cool.gif   (Unless the manufacturers put mircotagents of some such crap in the duraplast/metal of the flechettes)   frown.gif

Then just make sure to switch batches of ammo in between hits

If there was something else to tie the two events together, like someone went on a hunch based on an MO, that could make it worse. Think of it this way:

Set A of people with access to Batch X of the ammo.
Set B of people with access to Batch Y of the ammo.

If there is only partial overlap between Set A and Set B that just narrowed you down. The only thing keeping you safe at that point is how well your supply chain scrubbed the tracks of the ammo, which is out of your control except for the last step.

EDIT: A potential answer to that of course is the ever dangerous "make your own". smile.gif Or erase the trail on that last step by erasing the contact, or stealing the stuff.
Shadow_Prophet
Considering when I talk about a batch of ammo I'm talking about a manufacturing batch which could be distributed across a large amount of stores across the country. Especialy if purchased from a retail chain store where the batches will get further split up and will not be tracked once they get to the main distribution warehouse. The manufacturer might know which batches they sent there but the store in general doesn't give a damn what boxes from which batches they got as long as they have product to sell.

Granted I'm infering that it'd work similar in 2070 but yeah I think it would work just fine.
NightmareX
QUOTE (Shadow_Prophet)
QUOTE (NightmareX @ Sep 22 2005, 09:24 AM)
The AVS, an assassin's best friend.  cool.gif  (Unless the manufacturers put mircotagents of some such crap in the duraplast/metal of the flechettes)  frown.gif

Then just make sure to switch batches of ammo in between hits

Yet another reason to be trigger happy eek.gif
Nikoli
You are forgetting RFID's in the casings (possibly the shells) that allow them to track down to the store for each and every round pumped out the back of the factories. They could probably track to the buyer for said ammo, which means if Ares wants to keep up it's illegal arms trade to runners, it will have to arrange for thefts and subsequent tag burning
NightmareX
QUOTE (Nikoli)
You are forgetting RFID's in the casings (possibly the shells) that allow them to track down to the store for each and every round pumped out the back of the factories. They could probably track to the buyer for said ammo, which means if Ares wants to keep up it's illegal arms trade to runners, it will have to arrange for thefts and subsequent tag burning

Anyone that doesn't use caseless is just asking for trouble to begin with. That doesn't stop them for putting RFIDs in with the flechettes themselves (in the case of the aforementioned AVS), but like Blakkie said, make your own.
Shadow_Prophet
QUOTE (Nikoli)
You are forgetting RFID's in the casings (possibly the shells) that allow them to track down to the store for each and every round pumped out the back of the factories. They could probably track to the buyer for said ammo, which means if Ares wants to keep up it's illegal arms trade to runners, it will have to arrange for thefts and subsequent tag burning

Well considering guns fireing caseless by default putting it in the casings isnt going to do anything. And putting a rfid in a ex explosive round? Come on. No I doubt they'd do that for the simple reason of they'll never know exactly how the round of ammo would explode. And the exploding of the bullet would more than likely compromise it.

Secondly any assassin worth his weight would have a tag eraser for this anyways.

But still i doubt there'd be tags in explosive or ex explosive rounds simply due to the way they work. A tag in the box of ammo? sure. But that wouldn't help much with explosive ammo.
blakkie
QUOTE (Shadow_Prophet)
Considering when I talk about a batch of ammo I'm talking about a manufacturing batch which could be distributed across a large amount of stores across the country. Especialy if purchased from a retail chain store where the batches will get further split up and will not be tracked once they get to the main distribution warehouse. The manufacturer might know which batches they sent there but the store in general doesn't give a damn what boxes from which batches they got as long as they have product to sell.

Which is why one batch is ok. But you start giving too much info for Them to work with and it starts narrowing it down to a much smaller pontential group.
Shadow_Prophet
QUOTE (blakkie)
QUOTE (Shadow_Prophet @ Sep 22 2005, 08:39 AM)
Considering when I talk about a batch of ammo I'm talking about a manufacturing batch which could be distributed across a large amount of stores across the country.  Especialy if purchased from a retail chain store where the batches will get further split up and will not be tracked once they get to the main distribution warehouse.  The manufacturer might know which batches they sent there but the store in general doesn't give a damn what boxes from which batches they got as long as they have product to sell.

Which is why one batch is ok. But you start giving too much info for Them to work with and it starts narrowing it down to a much smaller pontential group.

Actualy its kinda equivilent of giving them a white fiber.

They might...might know which batch its from.

They might know the calliber.

They might know which store had that batch. But realy if the store didn't buy its batches factory direct and bought it through a distributor they might not even know that much.

Really in the end you're wrong blakkie its not going to really give them anything. Heck we can't even remotely do what you're asking today because ammunition isn't made with markers to tell you which batch its from. And even then its only labeled on the box itself and you have to know where to look for it too.

blakkie
QUOTE
They might know which store had that batch. But realy if the store didn't buy its batches factory direct and bought it through a distributor they might not even know that much.


Legal and quasi-legal will have a solid datatrail that can be obtained through warrants/hackers/cash. After it leaves the quasi-legal path you have legwork and sorting an IDs datatrail through random nodes. This path is much harder and more labour intensive. So you want to minimize how much narrowing down they can do before they have to get through the tough slogging.

QUOTE
Really in the end you're wrong blakkie its not going to really give them anything. Heck we can't even remotely do what you're asking today because ammunition isn't made with markers to tell you which batch its from. And even then its only labeled on the box itself and you have to know where to look for it too.


Says you....naively.

BTW that's another cool thing about rolling your own ammo. You can make it in small batches and vary the trace elements batch to batch. Just don't use batch between jobs and the trail goes cold there, and they'll have a bitch of a time sifting out the trail of the raw materials to you.

Another thing you can do to help thwart getting stuff traced back to you are buying completed ammo is spread the supply paths around so that their set analysis has to cast a much wider net. The trade-off there is that you have more points of contact with dealers. This means potentially more people paths back to you, and more work because you have to develop the contacts. Which is why a competent fixer you can trust is so important, hopefully they are doing the spreading around of sources for you.
Shadow_Prophet
QUOTE (blakkie)
QUOTE
Says you....naively.


BTW that's another cool thing about rolling your own ammo. You can make it in small batches and vary the trace elements batch to batch. Just don't use batch between jobs and the trail goes cold there, and they'll have a bitch of a time sifting out the trail of the raw materials to you.

Another thing you can do to help thwart getting stuff traced back to you are buying completed ammo is spread the supply paths around so that their set analysis has to cast a much wider net. The trade-off there is that you have more points of contact with dealers. This means potentially more people paths back to you, and more work because you have to develop the contacts. Which is why a competent fixer you can trust is so important.

Interesting article. So I am partialy wrong there, and thank you for the read.

However it supports my points more than it supports yours. They can compare bullets against each other to determine if they were from the same batch. Thus if you use two different batches the bullets aren't linked. Secondly it also states that batches end up allllll over the country spread out all over the place. Thus limiting the idea of you being tracked down.

Follow that up with the fact in ex rounds atleast there probably isn't going to be a rfid in the bullets and you're likely to burn out the rfid in the box of ammo (if your fixer hasn't done it already) and burn or generaly get rid of the box, the trace from that is nil. But basicaly you're not going to get traced if you're using multiple batches of ex ammo.

blakkie
QUOTE (Shadow_Prophet)
However it supports my points more than it supports yours. They can compare bullets against each other to determine if they were from the same batch. Thus if you use two different batches the bullets aren't linked. Secondly it also states that batches end up allllll over the country spread out all over the place. Thus limiting the idea of you being tracked down.

...until you give them more than one point of data. Also remember that they don't just have to match it against another bullet at a crime scene. They can match it against ammo on the shelf....or an analysis of the batch coming off the assembly line...which can happen as part of a QC/QA program.

QUOTE
Follow that up with the fact in ex rounds atleast there probably isn't going to be a rfid in the bullets and you're likely to burn out the rfid in the box of ammo (if your fixer hasn't done it already) and burn or generaly get rid of the box, the trace from that is nil.  But basicaly you're not going to get traced if you're using multiple batches of ex ammo.


In some ways Ex is worse. You have the fragments and you have the explosive residue....and you'll have partial groves if you aren't switching weapons/barrels to tie different ammo together. Ex fragment, they doesn't dissolve.

P.S. I'm not so worried about RFID because you can burn those unless they are hardened which are fairly expensive. Economically hardened (Security) RFID would only be used as a random inserts. They are 5 nuyen.gif each when purchased in lots of 20. Since the ammo is 10 nuyen.gif /round they would only be put in randomly, though i guess at bulk purchase discounts slipping in 1 or maybe even 2 per box is possible.
kigmatzomat
Of course, this goes to pot if the supplier refuses to play ball. Which means if you make a run on a corp subsidiary, be sure to use ammo manufactured by a rival! If all the data is managed by the extra-territorial mega, they will want to know what crime the round was used on before sharing. Even then, they won't open their database but will do the search themselves.

In the future, it isn't necessarily in the best interest of the corps to cooperate. And the best part is the corps will have trouble knowing when that might be so the default answer is screw a competitor.
blakkie
QUOTE (kigmatzomat @ Sep 22 2005, 10:35 AM)
Of course, this goes to pot if the supplier refuses to play ball.

"I can crash you from here Frankie!" I always giggle every time i picture him raising his hands up in that funky cat claw thing. smile.gif Hackers can still get at it perhaps, we are talking relatively low secrecy data. But yeah playing off one Big Brother against another to create obstacles on the datatrail can help.
Ravennus
Just a quick question for you gun types (since I'm not American....joke! joke! lol).

Someone mentioned caseless bullets already. All I know about them, is that they don't leave...well...a casing that has been ejected from the gun. But would the bullet itself be any less traceable? Does it make a difference?

-Ravennus

Edit-Changed 'lace' to less.
Shadow_Prophet
QUOTE (blakkie)
QUOTE (Shadow_Prophet @ Sep 22 2005, 10:12 AM)
However it supports my points more than it supports yours.  They can compare bullets against each other to determine if they were from the same batch.  Thus if you use two different batches the bullets aren't linked.  Secondly it also states that batches end up allllll over the country spread out all over the place.  Thus limiting the idea of you being tracked down.

...until you give them more than one point of data. Also remember that they don't just have to match it against another bullet at a crime scene. They can match it against ammo on the shelf....or an analysis of the batch coming off the assembly line...which can happen as part of a QC/QA program.

QUOTE
Follow that up with the fact in ex rounds atleast there probably isn't going to be a rfid in the bullets and you're likely to burn out the rfid in the box of ammo (if your fixer hasn't done it already) and burn or generaly get rid of the box, the trace from that is nil.  But basicaly you're not going to get traced if you're using multiple batches of ex ammo.


In some ways Ex is worse. You have the fragments and you have the explosive residue....and you'll have partial groves if you aren't switching weapons/barrels to tie different ammo together. Ex fragment, they doesn't dissolve.

P.S. I'm not so worried about RFID because you can burn those unless they are hardened which are fairly expensive. Economically hardened (Security) RFID would only be used as a random inserts. They are 5 nuyen.gif each when purchased in lots of 20. Since the ammo is 10 nuyen.gif /round they would only be put in randomly, though i guess at bulk purchase discounts slipping in 1 or maybe even 2 per box is possible.

Well you have more faith in the law enforcement than I do going to the shelves of stores and buying up box upon box of bullets that could have been purchased anywhere in the world just to test to see if your bullet came from that match. Also if you read your article billions of rounds are made a year in the us currently which will probably go up and a batch of 22lr from one ton of lead only nets you about 280000 rounds of amunition. You're assuming also that the manufacturer is going to keep strict logs of the compositional makeup of every batch as well.

Furthermore when the round fragments it will also end up deforming blakkie thus removing even more of the wonderful grooving or altering it enough that it won't be comparable.
Shadow_Prophet
QUOTE (Ravennus)
Just a quick question for you gun types (since I'm not American....joke! joke! lol).

Someone mentioned caseless bullets already. All I know about them, is that they don't leave...well...a casing that has been ejected from the gun. But would the bullet itself be any lace traceable? Does it make a difference?

-Ravennus

The bullet itself, assuming it survived and was not broken up completely or too deformed could indeed be traced by the grooves left by the firearm. And it could be compared to other rounds at the crime scene to determine if they were fired from the same gun, or from the same batch.
blakkie
QUOTE (Ravennus @ Sep 22 2005, 11:10 AM)
Just a quick question for you gun types (since I'm not American....joke! joke! lol).

Someone mentioned caseless bullets already. All I know about them, is that they don't leave...well...a casing that has been ejected from the gun.  But would the bullet itself be any lace traceable? Does it make a difference?

-Ravennus

Dumbed down version from a Johnny Lunchbox understanding of it:

The slug is tied back to the weapon by the marks it leaves on it. Mosty from the rifling groves. Howere the mechanism that moves the ammo from the magazine to the breach, the strike from the mechanical firing pin (if the weapon uses one) on the primer will leave distinct marks as well, and the ejection of the case (once again if there is one) also tend to leave marks. With caseless they nolonger have the reciever marks on the case left because the solid propellant (which replaces the casing+gunpowder) burns away. Likewise depending on what is used to kick off the propellant you may not have a mechanical primer left afterwards either (not sure how RL caseless handle this right now).

However you will still end up with the reciever marks on the slug as well as the rifling marks (or in the case of smooth bore like shotguns, micro-scratches from barrel imperfections).
blakkie
QUOTE (Shadow_Prophet @ Sep 22 2005, 11:15 AM)
Well you have more faith in the law enforcement than I do going to the shelves of stores and buying up box upon box of bullets that could have been purchased anywhere in the world just to test to see if your bullet came from that match.  Also if you read your article billions of rounds are made a year in the us currently  which will probably go up and a batch of 22lr from one ton of lead only nets you about 280000 rounds of amunition.  You're assuming also that the manufacturer is going to keep strict logs  of the compositional makeup of every batch as well.

This is the 6th world, storage is cheap and the data is being collected everywhere. smile.gif Look at what Google is doing, email that is kept FOREVER.

QUOTE
Furthermore when the round fragments it will also end up deforming blakkie thus removing even more of the wonderful grooving or altering it enough that it won't be comparable.


*smack* We covered this before. Once apon a time a paper shredder was good enough, but technology has been able to find the data in that chaos.

EX do not dissolve. They fragment and they deform, but that is measurable and given enough accuracy in measurement and enough computational power you can piece a lot of it back together.
Shadow_Prophet
QUOTE (blakkie @ Sep 22 2005, 12:42 PM)
QUOTE (Shadow_Prophet @ Sep 22 2005, 11:15 AM)
Well you have more faith in the law enforcement than I do going to the shelves of stores and buying up box upon box of bullets that could have been purchased anywhere in the world just to test to see if your bullet came from that match.  Also if you read your article billions of rounds are made a year in the us currently  which will probably go up and a batch of 22lr from one ton of lead only nets you about 280000 rounds of amunition.  You're assuming also that the manufacturer is going to keep strict logs  of the compositional makeup of every batch as well.

This is the 6th world, storage is cheap and the data is being collected everywhere. smile.gif Look at what Google is doing, email that is kept FOREVER.

QUOTE
Furthermore when the round fragments it will also end up deforming blakkie thus removing even more of the wonderful grooving or altering it enough that it won't be comparable.


*smack* We covered this before. Once apon a time a paper shredder was good enough, but technology has been able to find the data is that chaos.

EX do not dissolve. They fragment and they deform, but that is measurable and given enough accuracy in measurement and enough computational power you can piece a lot of it back together.

If it deforms enough and in the right places, which more than likely it will, you will loose the groovings. We already have enough problems now adays with normal rounds deforming so we can't get a accurate comparison. And thats disregarding the fact if you can easily change the grooves that the gun leaves on the bullet enough not to be able to get a match.

Data storage is cheap I'll give you that, but the company would also have to have a reason for keeping track of anything other than, was it within tolerances? was it soft or hard? And considering shadowrunning and military things like that, my guess would be at some point they're just going to be checking if they're making money. Afterall why keep data that will put your customers out of buisness?

EDIT: To your paper sheader example. It was never realy good enough to stop those who wanted the information. All it did was to sort through it, yes it was time consuming but you can easily put documents back together even when they were first invented. They were designed, and still work as designed, as a easy way to destroy documents in such a way as to make them hard if not impossible to recover. Easy way to do this is split up where the shreads go. Don't put all your eggs in one basket so to speak.
blakkie
QUOTE (Shadow_Prophet @ Sep 22 2005, 11:48 AM)
If it deforms enough and in the right places, which more than likely it will, you will loose the groovings.  We already have enough problems now adays with normal rounds deforming so we can't get a accurate comparison.  And thats disregarding the fact if you can easily change the grooves that the gun leaves on the bullet enough not to be able to get a match.

How big do you think those distinguishing marks are? Tiny, tiny, tiny. Of course they can't always get a match that is good enough to be decisive in a court of law, to remove all reasonable doubt. But it doesn't have to be. Same as with fingerprints. A partial print will bring up a number of matches, and that once again gives you the smaller list that makes the legwork feasible. Do you remember those train bombings in Spain? A partial print on a plastic bag was run through the US government's finger print database. It got a hit on a lawyer living in the Pacific Northwest that does a lot of pro-bono work for people who are islamic worshipers.

Only it was one of about 20 hits they got, i believe. They did the legwork, grilled him for a few days, and then released him when they decided he didn't belong on the suspect list. But they did get the list down to 20 from possible 10000's of people to interagate.

QUOTE
Data storage is cheap I'll give you that, but the company would also have to have a reason for keeping track of anything other than, was it within tolerances?  was it soft or hard?  And considering shadowrunning and military things like that, my guess would be at some point they're just going to be checking if they're making money.  Afterall why keep data that will put your customers out of buisness?


That damn ISO 9001:2050 compliance can be such a pain. wink.gif Plus they indeed themselves might be interested in where that ammo ends up. The times it could be putting a customer out of business is the time when it is going to be the most valuable to them.
blakkie
QUOTE (Shadow_Prophet)
EDIT: To your paper sheader example. It was never realy good enough to stop those who wanted the information. All it did was to sort through it, yes it was time consuming but you can easily put documents back together even when they were first invented. They were designed, and still work as designed, as a easy way to destroy documents in such a way as to make them hard if not impossible to recover. Easy way to do this is split up where the shreads go. Don't put all your eggs in one basket so to speak.

Ya, it was always just a deterent. The deterent level just dropped a lot. When it was a few tons of shreds it was an extremely effective deterent.

P.S. Burning of it helps a lot, especially if it is a complete burn and the result is crumbled ash. We really are no where near being able to put that back together. smile.gif
Shadow_Prophet
QUOTE (blakkie)
QUOTE (Shadow_Prophet @ Sep 22 2005, 11:48 AM)
If it deforms enough and in the right places, which more than likely it will, you will loose the groovings.  We already have enough problems now adays with normal rounds deforming so we can't get a accurate comparison.  And thats disregarding the fact if you can easily change the grooves that the gun leaves on the bullet enough not to be able to get a match.

How big do you think those distinguishing marks are? Tiny, tiny, tiny. Of course they can't always get a match that is good enough to be decisive in a court of law, to remove all reasonable doubt. But it doesn't have to be. Same as with fingerprints. A partial print will bring up a number of matches, and that once again gives you the smaller list that makes the legwork feasible. Do you remember those train bombings in Spain? A partial print on a plastic bag was run through the US government's finger print database. It got a hit on a lawyer living in the Pacific Northwest that does a lot of pro-bono work for people who are islamic worshipers.

Only it was one of about 20 hits they got, i believe. They did the legwork, grilled him for a few days, and then released him when they decided he didn't belong on the suspect list. But they did get the list down to 20 from possible 10000's of people to interagate.

Well how much of the bullet do you think will survive unmarred? Not alot. Fragmenting rounds, like what explosive an ex explosive are based off of, only leave behind small pieces which get pretty mangled. Then toss in exploding ontop of that and well, the likely hood that you'll be able to get enough to get any sort or distinguishable pattern to match against anything is well a long shot at best.

And you still have the fact that in a matter of mins you can easily change the patern your gun will leave on the bullet.
Ravennus
No offence to anyone, but I think a portion of blakkie's sig says it all...

"Dumpshock Forums: The Anal Retentives That Fun Forgot" biggrin.gif
blakkie
QUOTE (Shadow_Prophet)
And you still have the fact that in a matter of mins you can easily change the patern your gun will leave on the bullet.

You'll get a much more complete answer from the gun buffs in the main forum, but i once asked about that idea around here. I believe the short answer was that a weaponsmith could re-machine the barrel slightly, but you'll take a serious amount of life out of it each time and just the width of the land & groves goes into those measurements, and that isn't entirely easy to change.

So that is one possible way to avoid puchasing a new weapon or parts every few jobs, but it isn't entirely a simple couple minute matter either. Nor free.

QUOTE
Well how much of the bullet do you think will survive unmarred?  Not alot.  Fragmenting rounds, like what explosive an ex explosive are based off of, only leave behind small pieces which get pretty mangled.  Then toss in exploding ontop of that and well, the likely hood that you'll be able to get enough to get any sort or distinguishable pattern to match against anything is well a long shot at best.


Sifting the chaos for data. *shrug* At one time common sense laughed at the suggestion of overcoming the odds of the approximate 50% payout of state lotteries by simple analysis of which of 40 to 50 balls had dropped in the past with a relativly small sample of dozen of draws.....until it was shown and someone wrote a book about it forcing the lotteries to replace ball set much more often and/or rotate in different balls.
blakkie
QUOTE (Ravennus)
No offence to anyone, but I think a portion of blakkie's sig says it all...

"Dumpshock Forums: The Anal Retentives That Fun Forgot" biggrin.gif

Shhh, you aren't allowed to refer to sigs. They are among The Unmentionables™, or so i've been told in the past. wink.gif
kigmatzomat
Things to add:

When in public dress like sheep, drive a sheep car, eat sheep food. When in doubt, buy the slightly more expensive sheep items; shabby stuff gets noticed as much as the expensive.

Even be a sheep when being a wolf.

Always buy mass-production ammunition. Sure, Lapua may have a special super-hot round but much do they sell vs. Winchester? The more generic your ammo, the more invisible you are. Buy small lots of ammunition; large quantities are easier to trace, even in the shadows. Explosive and flechette ammunition makes it more difficult, but not impossible, to trace back to the gun. APDS offer no protection as the sabots will hold the rifling like a slug but without as much deformation.

Never use the same gun against the same target corp, or at least the same barrel. If at all possible, mix up your weapon selection. Don't get too addicted to any one weapon as it too will become a finger print. If you sell your guns rather than just dumping them, swap out the barrels and grips before you do.

kigmatzomat
FYI: Swapping the barrel on most automatic pisotls these days is 3 minute job and I'd imagine the same would be for most SMGs.
blakkie
@kigmatzomat - I can get behind that concept.

I'd extend it to something that often isn't thought about, footwear. Just ask O.J. Simpson about his snazy Bruno Magli shoes. Even normal shoes/boots leave a fairly unique footprint (and if you have odd sized feet, very large or very small, can be a bit of a tip-off, even if you change the actual boot/shoe regularly).

Also don't assume that gloves alone will save you from leaving fingerprints. Gloves can leave unique marks, but fortunately it is much more feasible to alter it by using a fine-grit sandpaper on them (varying the direction of the wear marks each time).
blakkie
Another thing to help is temporal displacement of the purchase and use to help break the datatrail.

In practice this means that pair of Nike-Nintendos Halley Comets you wear to your next job were purchased a variable number of months ago, and in a different month in the past than the hat you'll wear, and the gloves you'll have on.
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (blakkie)
Also don't assume that gloves alone will save you from leaving fingerprints.

Don't leave your own fingerprints - use Nanopaste Makeup and leave those of people you don't like... or those of celebrities. grinbig.gif
blakkie
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Sep 22 2005, 03:05 PM)
QUOTE (blakkie)
Also don't assume that gloves alone will save you from leaving fingerprints.

Don't leave your own fingerprints - use Nanopaste Makeup and leave those of people you don't like... or those of celebrities. grinbig.gif

rotfl.gif

Leave behind prints and stolen hair,
till Celine Dion gets the chair!
Fortune
QUOTE (blakkie)
Shhh, you aren't allowed to refer to sigs. They are among The Unmentionables™, or so i've been told in the past. wink.gif

I have a feeling that the newest part of your sig is never going to change. I meant to mention it before, but I definitely love it. biggrin.gif
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