Full Version: System Failure re: Poland [spoiler]
| QUOTE (JesterX @ Sep 20 2005, 09:28 PM) |
| Can you tell me more about them? Their activities? Their goals? |
Sorry Jester, but this is bugging me and I've got to ask. Have you read the "Fall of Night" track in System Failure? From your earlier post I assumed you had read all the book but all the relevant Winternight background, details on their beliefs, origins, MO and organization are in there.
| QUOTE (hahnsoo) |
| Winternight is a fanatical terrorist organization that wants to bring about the end of the world through the Norse Mythology of Ragnarock. Their "schtick" is the magically-enhanced nukes (whether or not they actually worked wasn't answered until System Failure) and the God chip (an "uber"-BTL that makes people go into a berserker rage). It's been around since Threats, and makes appearances in a variety of sourcebooks and a couple of novels ("Ragnarock" for one). I don't really get the Al-Quaeda vibe from them, mostly because Winternight is trying to bring about the end of the world. |
| QUOTE (booklord) |
| My take on them was that at the core they were the only known group of toxic shamans ever to manage to work together without killing each other. (much) The "Beserker" chips and weapons of mass destruction were all just branching out. |
| QUOTE (Fortune) |
| They have also traditionally had a special hard-on for the Matrix. It epitomizes everything they hate about the World. |
They're all that and then some... Exactly how all the different elements of Winternight's beliefs fit together and how their creed leads directly into the events in System Failure is detailed in the book. Hopefully, you'll find that Winternight's leadership (btw - props to the artist for the perfect depictions) are not simply nutters but have a very scary and logical (not to say rational) road map to "correct" history.
*double post*
as someone that doesn't have the stupid friggin book yet 
, (little bitter) , they don't have any more dragon ties do they. Referring to Ragnarok/Alamaise. What's their deal with partners? They hook up with Ex pacis in SF. Is it a matter of funding, or organization/motivation? Or should I just wait for the damn book and asnwer my own damn questions? 
, (little bitter) , they don't have any more dragon ties do they. Referring to Ragnarok/Alamaise. What's their deal with partners? They hook up with Ex pacis in SF. Is it a matter of funding, or organization/motivation? Or should I just wait for the damn book and asnwer my own damn questions? | QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0 @ Sep 21 2005, 11:55 AM) |
| as someone that doesn't have the stupid friggin book yet , (little bitter) , they don't have any more dragon ties do they. Referring to Ragnarok/Alamaise. What's their deal with partners? They hook up with Ex pacis in SF. Is it a matter of funding, or organization/motivation? |
No dragon ties are given (although more than one person has understood the material suggests the possibility) and Winternight's policy of alliances is explained in the book. Why they would team up with Matrix-spawn like Ex Pacis in the first place is also explained.
| QUOTE |
| Or should I just wait for the damn book and asnwer my own damn questions? |
That would be a Good Idea.
| QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0) |
| Or should I just wait for the damn book and asnwer my own damn questions? |
Got the same idea... but it's so hard to wait for the printed version to arrive at my FLGS...
I don't have a copy of Threats, which probably explains Winternight a bit better, however, I DO have SF, so I'm curious as to whether they ever expounded on whom "Loki" is in the Winternight mythos, and whether or not they addressed that way back when in Threats.
Is "Loki" a metaphor for the matrix? Or is it Deus? Is it something else? Or is Wednesday just bat-shit loco and can say anything he damn well pleases as long as it sounds Norse?
Is "Loki" a metaphor for the matrix? Or is it Deus? Is it something else? Or is Wednesday just bat-shit loco and can say anything he damn well pleases as long as it sounds Norse?
From Threats, p 29:
| QUOTE |
| Winternight refuses to use the Matrix, convinced that the worldwide communications network is the design of Loki, the trickster god of Norse mythology. They view the Matrix as a great enemy, a deceiver and a spy. |
I don't think it personifies Loki per se... I guess they can think of Novatech as Loki or something similar. My guess is that Winternight doesn't really consider anything to be Loki personified.
Threats doesn't really clarify the issue or explain Winternight's beliefs.
The thing to understand is that Wednesday and co. subscribe to the Aesir belief(more on that in SoE and SOTA:64), and in rules terms are what is known as "Idol Followers" and "Panthaestic shamans". Like most Aesir (and most Neo-pagans), Winternight believes the Old Gods are powerful symbols, primal spirits and idealized anthromorphic archetypes which represent elemental and natural forces at large in the world (as opposed to "Gods" in the traditional sense of quasi-omnipotent superhuman entities). Each God plays a role in the Norse pantheon but none of them have earthly manifestations.
Loki is the trickster god and played an important role in Norse mythology - he's a force for magic, chaos, death and entropy. Winternight sees Loki as a primal force whose evil nature causes the conflict which cracks the Old God's decadence and causes the battle that wipes the slate clean. Winternight believe the powers and institutions of the Sixth World are earthly manifestations of the corruption which has overtaken the gods. The Matrix is a metaphor for the chains imprisoning Loki (which should have been destroyed as prophesized but weren't leading the world into a dark age). When the Matrix is destroyed Loki is "metaphorically" freed and their grand ritual is complete. The elemental forces of nature and man are back on course for the final fight and Ragnarok is finally at hand.
Deus, the other AIs, the Otaku, et al are simply lesser manifestations of Loki's power (like the mythical Hel, Fenrir, and Jormungand before them) - children of his mind if you will.
The thing to understand is that Wednesday and co. subscribe to the Aesir belief(more on that in SoE and SOTA:64), and in rules terms are what is known as "Idol Followers" and "Panthaestic shamans". Like most Aesir (and most Neo-pagans), Winternight believes the Old Gods are powerful symbols, primal spirits and idealized anthromorphic archetypes which represent elemental and natural forces at large in the world (as opposed to "Gods" in the traditional sense of quasi-omnipotent superhuman entities). Each God plays a role in the Norse pantheon but none of them have earthly manifestations.
Loki is the trickster god and played an important role in Norse mythology - he's a force for magic, chaos, death and entropy. Winternight sees Loki as a primal force whose evil nature causes the conflict which cracks the Old God's decadence and causes the battle that wipes the slate clean. Winternight believe the powers and institutions of the Sixth World are earthly manifestations of the corruption which has overtaken the gods. The Matrix is a metaphor for the chains imprisoning Loki (which should have been destroyed as prophesized but weren't leading the world into a dark age). When the Matrix is destroyed Loki is "metaphorically" freed and their grand ritual is complete. The elemental forces of nature and man are back on course for the final fight and Ragnarok is finally at hand.
Deus, the other AIs, the Otaku, et al are simply lesser manifestations of Loki's power (like the mythical Hel, Fenrir, and Jormungand before them) - children of his mind if you will.
| QUOTE (JesterX) |
| <snip> Basically, since the book is for "ending" SR3, it's worth almost nothing for GMing SR except if you want to "end" your campaign. |
I already have an end set up. for my campaign. and from what I have been reading about SF, I think I'll stick to what I've written. Yeah, I've taken a bit of liberty (who doesn't), that's why I found the Balkans to be such a great place - no real write-up or setting to deal with. Nothing but a bunch of little fly by night governments rising and falling faster than you can slug down a soycaff at a stuffer shack. And mercs everywhere.
| QUOTE (Synner) |
| The thing to understand is that Wednesday and co. subscribe to the Aesir belief(more on that in SoE and SOTA:64), and in rules terms are what is known as "Idol Followers".....Winternight believes the Old Gods are powerful symbols, primal spirits and idealized anthromorphic archetypes which represent elemental and natural forces at large in the world (as opposed to "Gods" in the traditional sense of quasi-omnipotent superhuman individuals)....Winternight sees Loki as a primal force whose evil and nature causes the conflict which cracks the Old God's decadence and causes the battle that wipes the slate clean.....etc |
Eloquently put. You should be a writer (wink, nudge).
I've never read Magic in the Shadows, which I believe is what originally addressed Idols (I think), so that makes a lot more sense, and is, in its own way, a lot more refreshing than wondering when Odin and Co. will step out of the metaplanes and start tossing around magic spears and riding around on their 7 legged horses and immortal goats.
*ahem* I now return you to System Failure: Poland.
| QUOTE (Fortune) |
| Neo = New (also = Nova) N = Novatech E = Erica T = Transys Neuronet |
Yes, naturally - that part is evident from the book, isn't it?
(especially by the way they write it: NeoNET)
What I put up is just further ways how the name links to the old companies (should've been clearer on that)
| QUOTE (Synner) |
| Threats doesn't really clarify the issue or explain Winternight's beliefs. The thing to understand is that Wednesday and co. subscribe to the Aesir belief(more on that in SoE and SOTA:64), and in rules terms are what is known as "Idol Followers" and "Panthaestic shamans". Like most Aesir (and most Neo-pagans), Winternight believes the Old Gods are powerful symbols, primal spirits and idealized anthromorphic archetypes which represent elemental and natural forces at large in the world (as opposed to "Gods" in the traditional sense of quasi-omnipotent superhuman entities). |
Yes, and as a native Swede and lover of our old mythologies, I must say I was EXTREMELY pleased with all the symbolry and motive worked into Winternight in System Failure.
Superbly done, I must say!
(And of course, the link with Deus as a sort of symbolical Yggdrasil (the world tree) was the icing on the cake - seemed like the plan for SF started back in Brainscan; nice wrap up and tie in.)
Only thing I missed was a role for the squirrel, but I'm gonna add that myself
| QUOTE (snowRaven @ Sep 21 2005, 10:50 PM) |
| Yes, and as a native Swede and lover of our old mythologies, I must say I was EXTREMELY pleased with all the symbolry and motive worked into Winternight in System Failure. Superbly done, I must say! |
Thank you. It's nice to know all that research paid off. I really wanted to make Winternight's heritage a major element in the plot and it's nice to see someone who knows the references pick up on them. I already had several ideias in mind when I started (Winternight as the Einherjar, the worm as Jormungand, Pax as Hel, Ymir and Surtr, etc), but stuff just kept falling uncannily into place the deeper I looked into the Ragnarok mythology.
We had some ideas for Ratatosk and Hraesvelg during development (and Ancient History suggested a couple more), but I decided against adding even more elements - after all it leaves elements for those in the know to play with.
I'm happy with how it turned out. Less is more, sometimes.
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