No, the VCR has been replaced and outdated by virtually unlimited wireless bandwidth.

As a hacker, your initiative in the matrix is based on how you are accessing it. You have 3 options. Augmented Reality, which is the real world with the matrix overlayed on to your real world vision. This uses your meat body initiative, and you can't rig a vehicle like this

Alternatively, you have full VR, which is like the Matrix of old shadowrun version. And you can access this hot or cold. Hot pushes the ASIST interface beyond the limits of safety in order to get more speed. Cold uses cut outs to make sure you don't get brain fried, but at the cost of speed. You can use either of these methods to rig a vehicle, and the method you are using determines your initiative just as if you were hacking a system.

So if you are rigging a vehicle with hot sim, you get 3 initiative passes, and if you are rigging it using cold sim, you get 2 initiative passes

There is no such thing as an old school VCR though. The new Control Rig just gives you a dice bonus when controlling vehicles you have jumped in to. It doesn't give you an initiative bonus

If you're talking about old school VCRs, then all bets are off. The rules don't cover that, meaning that it's pretty much up to the GM to decide how to handle old school cyberware still in circulation in some old runner that hasn't been killed yet

If you are driving using AR, yes. In VR it is Response+Inititive cold and Response+Inititive+1 for hot, total of 2 Init Passes for cold and 3 Init Passes hot. For VR, even Datajacked directly to the car (i assume this is possible) you go through a sim module. Not sure what value is suppose to be used for Response at that point, or if you still need a commlink in the middle too (which would then give you your Response value).

EDIT: I see Rotbart van Dainig mentioned Threshholds lowered by 1 for VR. I don't remember that, but he's usually pretty good with rules. EDIT2: Yup, there it is middle of the righthand side page 159.

Note: You can still have the Docs cut into your head a piece of gear called a Control Rig. This is like the VCR of old but it:
1) is an optional extra
2) gives a flat +2 dice to "Vehicle skill tests" when jumped into a vehicle (over top of the +2 for hot VR is my understanding)
3) gives no extra Init Passes, no extra Init dice
4) does Gunnery of a turret count as a "Vehicle skill test"? EDIT: Actually there Gunnery is, listed under Vehicle Active Skills, so that would be a 'yes'.

As to what happened to all those old riggers? Most got hooked on Long Haul, burned out, had their careers go down the tube, and now live in upstate Idaho with a fugly old lady and a head full of worthless wire. A few though got the old stuff ripped out and replaced with a Commlink, a Control Rig, a hot sim module, and in the case of people that had a VCR-3, a Playstation 17, a 1000 watt stereo amp/tuner, and a hot air popcorn popper to try use up the gaping Essense hole left by the VCR.

It still goes through your commlink as always, so you still use the response rating.

That's on p159, in the Vehicle Tests section of vehicle combat

No, you don't get the +2 for hot VR when rigging. That applies to Matrix actions only, and there is a fairly clear list of them on page 219. Rigging has it's own set of actions seperate from Matrix actions.

However in the Matrix Jargon on page 218 it lists a Rigger as "a user who "jumps into" a properly-adapted device in order to directly control it as if he was that device." I'd say that it is still a Matrix action as it is being done by a Matrix user. It is just that she is a special user case (or a special case of a Control Device action if you like to think of it that way).

From a game playability POV you do get a +2 on Control Device. Only giving them the bonus of +1 on Init for being hot sim when jumped in means that every rigger [that isn't suicidal] is going to run cold, whether with a Control Rig or not (there is no hot sim stipulation in the Control Rig description).

EDIT: Or are you trying to say they wouldn't even get the +1 on Init rolls?

P.S. Control Rig is also listed under Matrix Jargon. The car is a Matrix device in SR4.

This certainly seems to imply that riggering has access to a subset of Matrix actions that are beyond access to most Matrix users. I'm giving the rigger +2 for hot Sim.

The only thing I'm saying is that they don't +2 dice for Matrix actions for using hot sim and another +2 dice for using a control rig when they are jumped in to a drone and performing vehicle actions. They will get the extra initiative pass and the bonus to initiative for using hotsim.

The hotsim dice bonus applies to Matrix actions, and the Control Rig dice bonus applies to vehicle actions. They two types of actions are distinct, and you can't get both bonuses on a single test

No, what it means is that when jumped in to a vehicle, a rigger can use the rigging actions listed on page 239. It also means they have access to Matrix actions and to combat actions. It doesn't imply anything one way or the other about unique rigger only matrix actions

"other combat and Matrix actions".

Want to rule taking away the +2 die and +1 Init bonus while jumped into a vehicle? *shrug* I'd say it is not only dubious interpretation of the written rules, it's certainly a bad idea from a spirit and playability POV.

As I said, I'm not talking about initiative in any way.

The only thing I am talking about is this line

"You also receive an exceptional +2 dice pool bonus to all Matrix tests while in hot sim mode"

My point of view is that a vehicle test (p 159) is most specifically not a Matrix test, and thus the bonus +2 dice for Matrix tests granted by hot sim mode is not relevant

The initiative bonuses granted by hot sim is not specific to Matrix tests though. Whatever you are doing, if you're operating under hot sim, you get the appropriate initiative bonus

But you get the -1 Threshhold cold or hot.

P.S. Without that -1 Threshhold most PCs are likely much better off to just stay put in the meat because his Init and Init Passes are likely better out there. So VR would become weaker than being in the meat.

The advantage of hot sim for rigging is the extra initiatve pass, and the bonus to your initiative. That's still a very real reason to use hot sim, even if the +2 dice for Matrix actions doesn't apply

*shrug* Fire off an email to shadowrunrpg.com then. Likely the best way to get it in the FAQ (perhaps errata) too since it is rather nebulios.

P.S. You likely should have put all in italics in that quote.

It's not realy that nebulos. +2 dice to matrix actions for being in hot sim. +2 dice for vehicle actions while jumped in and having a control rig. Prety cut and dry. And considering both matrix actions and vehicle actions are defined I'm not sure where there's any controversy here the idea that it's not clear is rather silly.

the hotsim bonus to rigging is quite hotly disputed actually.

personally, i say they should get it, because someone who is remote controlling the vehicle from hotsim gets the hotsim bonus, and actually rigging should provide some bonus, imo.

Really? Thanks, my email to there about this never got answered. Definately something for the FAQ. You didn't happen to ask about the cost of increasing Magic after you'd lost Essense, did you? That question was in the same unanswered email.

Hehe, yah I remember that. Just another chance for me to say "HA-HA".

Remember that from a vehicle you'll often be firing at another vehicle and dealing with armor, or have speed difference penalties, or both. But the basic rule of thumb is pedestrian shouldn't take on vehicle is obviously still in effect.

Another blast from the past thanks to thread-necromancy.

How about an Overclocked Technomancer?
Plus there are built in limits to AR "rigging" you don't really rig from AR you just issue commands to drones, the drones act on their own initiative, based on their rating, so being able to issue 4 commands a turn doesn't matter if the drone can only act once per turn. Otherwise you might be able to say... from AR give one command to the vehicle to steer, accelerate, decelerate, or whatever, one command to scan with sensors, one command to lock and fire a turret mounted weapon, etc., but since the dog brain can only Interpret so much, I would give each action a -2 modifier. Otherwise If you were only to give the command of engage target X, the drone can use it's own AI to decide best how to manuver, scan, lock on, and fire without these penalties. Also a drone acting under it's own control only has 3 init passes, so commanding it more times in one combat turn still cannot make it act more than three passes.

it's already in the main book. you can accessorize your weapons that you install on your rigged vehicles. the smart firing platform is an accessory.

therefore, any gun with an under mount available (so no pistols or machine pistols, iirc) can be made into remote turrets. and get lots of recoil compensation, to boot.

1) drones get 3 initiative passes per turn, not 1.
2) you can remotely control a vehicle using your own skills. this is possible in both AR or VR.
3) being able to issue 4 commands a turn is still extremely useful from captain's chair, because it means you can control 4 different groups as easily as someone else can control 1. imagine what it would be like playing an RTS if you could multitask as well as your computer... that's the kind of advantage someone gets who can issue 4 commands per round.
4) overclocked technomancers are sufficiently rare to be not worth discussing anyways, generally speaking. particular as commanders: overclocked technomancers who want to use vehicles should be using a crazy threaded command complex form to have effective reaction and agility of over 10 while they remote control their vehicles, not giving them orders.

I can see where you can remotly control a vehicle using your own skills in Hot Sim or Cold Sim, buit not AR, that would be limited to controling using the Issue Commands Action, as opposed to being "jumped in" and operating as though it were the riggers own body.

you can use the remote control option. it requires a command program, a commlink, and for you to have the skills (however, your own attributes are unimportant). but it is possible.

not really. for most dedicated rigger type characters, an attribute of 5 just isn't going to cut it, and at chargen 5 is your maximum rating for command effectively (actually, it's the response that is limited to 5, which limits your system to 5, which means even if you have command 6, it functions as command 5).

in comparison, the chargen hotsim rigger will probably have 5 (7) reaction at least, and possibly higher if they do decide to spring for wired reflexes, synaptic booster, or whatever else. agility will be similarly improved with cyber to be higher than 5, most likely.

the only exception to max command rating at chargen being 5 is the technomancer... who can have a 6 before threading (at terrible cost), or more with threading. however, since the TM isn't likely to spring for the essence loss involved in getting 3 IPs, let alone picking up the 'ware for 4 IPs later on (he is pretty much screwed in the meatworld for combat no matter how you look at it anyways), i would expect TMs to almost always use hotsim for the initiative passes and +2 bonus anyways. furthermore, the TM is the one kind of person who *can* have 4 IPs in VR anyways, so a TM rigger will still probably be better off with full VR rather than AR.