this guy you're quoting is an idiot, if you're not technical then you certainly shouldn't go to them for their opinions. there are better forums out there than block talk, try thehighroad.org it's quality and diverse and not filled with people that reflexively spout "just get a glock" like it's the end all cure to all lives problems.

girlfriend pregnant? get a glock
car won't start? get a glock
the souffle won't rise? get glock

besides we all know here the real answer is NERPS.

I know for a fact that this one works.

Actually the problem with the souffle will likely be that it falls after rising, in which case the report of a glock won't help! But if the cook has had repeated problems with this: Get a Glock.

the UAW eats babies, takes all your money and gives it to fat tony. complain and you sleep with the fishes

What, this problem doesn't exist at THR?

Didn't like that movie? It's them liberals.
Browser crashed? It's them liberals.
Car crashed? It's them liberals.
XBox 360 crashed? It's them liberals.

I've noticed, but we've been talking about it anyway because it's cool and shadowrunesque. a lot of the things we're talking about are objectives and not requirements, the interchangable grips and it really doesn't have to be hi-cap, it only requires a 8-round mag with 10-round extended mag. the SIG P220R is ready for duty.

Wins what? They're not going to win anything without a decocker and they're not going to make the "no grip shift" objective with the "F" safety.

Incidentally, having spent a good bit of time behind a PT92 (as well as having owned an HK USP40 with a very similar safety arrangement), I've personally never run into this problem. Ever. (Of course, I've never really had to deal with the stress of a deadly force situation, either, but I have run through some practical pistol courses with them. Lucky me?) Even if you did manage to hit that big might dead on, I don't see how it would be any worse than running around with an M9 in Condition 2 (as the safety can't be applied without decocking the hammer, so your first shot is likely to be double action anyway). *shrug*

The Taurus safety has functionality that the various Beretta safeties don't. It's fully compatible with the JCP objectives whereas the Beretta safeties, as they exist now, are not. It's not a huge deal, really, but unless they come up with something, they're going to miss an objective.

If Taurus can get an exchangable backstrap and M1913 rail going, the PT945 might make a decent contender. Or if they can put a similar manual safety on the 24/7-45, that one might be good, too. Though honestly, I don't think either would get much serious consideration, sadly.

It's a good idea. Too bad it's made in Serbia.

They'd have to do a lot of R&D (for a DA/SA trigger with a manual safety; basically abandoning everything that makes a Glock a Glock) to come up with a serious contender to meet the JCP specs. At present, Glock doesn't have anything that can compete. Considering the grip they have on the police market, I don't see them really putting a lot of effort into this. But who knows. Anything is possible.

Gonna have to disagree with that as well. Everything else in the specs is meant to be a part of the production. The shot counter is an objective, thus not necessarily required, but I definitely get the impression that it's supposed to be part of the production pistol.

I find it funny that such a hardcore Beretta fanboy is taking a crack at Glock owners like this.

i withdraw my earlier assertion

we all got our prejudices, I look for reasons not to like a Taurus but it's mostly aesthetic, same with Glock. I have a inch for a 10mm and the Glock 20 looks good.

and If I ever ran into a Beretta exec I would taunt them that Ernest Langdon left them because they wouldn't make a 92 in .45

Yeah, me too. I'm looking at the Tanfoglio/EAA Witness, myself.

That dude right there is (I think) the one person most directly responsible for inspiring the JCP solicitation. He used the SIG that most closely fits the specs to win a lot of competitions and he's real tight with the military (especially USMC) community. Now that he's the military sales manager for Smith & Wesson, I can't see them not offering something for the JCP.

I just have visions of that scene from Hot Shots, part two. Where there's a running body count on the screen as our hero shoots the bad guys...

Well, from what I understand, he was smoking a lot of tobacco from a pipe.

Funny. I really never saw Lord of the Rings as being either an "anti-war" or "pro-war" book. War just is (throughout the entire history of Middle Earth, even), with both hardships and glories. I'm sure that having served through a particularly nasty one, Tolkien wasn't any great fan of war, at least at that level, but then he wasn't so anti-war as to go out of his way to keep his own son from serving during one either. *shrug* I think people see what they want to, there.

Anyway...

The earlier FHS Future Handgun System contract that got rolled into the JCP also stipulated something with more stopping power than 9mm, but they weren't specific about what cartridge. So I believe they want something with more stopping power (at least when you're talking about FMJ). The requirement for a threaded barrel and silencer system means they also want a cartridge that silences easily, .45 does this pretty well, so does 9mm but with the 9mm you have to use special subsonic ammo that reduces it's performance (OTOH some people like the 147-grain loads). anyway they still keep some .45ACP in inventory for the MEUSOC .45, MARSOC.45 and SOCOM .45

it's not entirely like going to a new cartridge because they have some good loads picked out

early phases of M9 testing had them using some M1 9mm ball, which was craptacularly inconsistent and had all the pistols failing their accuracy requirements. So it's nice to have the cartridge and loads picked out now.

Good God. That's some kind of a photo (the second one).

the four calibers could be one of the calibers it's offered in on the Benelli Rifle
.308, .300 Win Mag, .30-06, .270WSM, .300WSM

and a .22 conversion kit wouldn't be unwelcomed either.

and the Stock (well the whole rifle) is similar to the Marines M1014

Yeah, I like the Benelli rifle, too. Seems pretty handy if you want one rifle that could (potentially) handle all of your hunting needs. But it's a bit pricey compared to the Browning BAR and Remington 7400. If you're not planning on changing out cartridges, it doesn't make much sense. Any of those in .260 Rem with a 20" barrel would make a nice deer/pronghorn rifle (and none of them are made that way!).

Well, in the kind of "tactical" package they appear to be hocking the Rx4, .308 and .300 Win Mag would be the most likely out of that group, then maybe .300 WSM. That is if they didn't shrink the action down for the 5.56x45mm rifle. I can't really tell with these pics, but the action still looks pretty beefy to me. Probably gonna be relatively heavy and not-so-reliable if they didn't dedicate an action for intermediates. And tactical rifle + crossbolt safety = bleh. On the other hand, it would be pretty handy if it could handle both 5.56x45mm and 7.62x51mm well.

*shrug* Guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Shadow, I don't know what the propagandists at The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence have been telling you but fully automatic rifles make hunting deer much easier, particulary due to the ability to penetrate the center mass with a tightly grouped pattern. Head shots ruin the tropy and you can't get a clean one every time, anyway. Center mass shots can miss the heart and lungs even when fired by a trained veternary surgeon. More lead mean more damage and a faster kill.

That is, after all, the point of the right to bear arms, so yes.

That being said, we're pretty horribly off-topic by now. Relevance to SR, not that the topic had much to begin with?

~J

To me, the BAR will always be that big cumbersome weapon that came with a hip worn butt cup so you can let her rip without any pretense of aiming like a good action movie star.

Supposedly, Clyde Barrow could actually hit things while firing a BAR from the hip, but I find that hard to believe.

No, it makes hunting even more fun just like dynamite does for fishing.

Actually, you'd get a huge TN penality for shooting in melee.

to be honest I wasn't thinking all the different calibers would be available by just changing that barrels, thats not the case for the Px4 or Cx4. Nothing wrong with the SCAR concept of a light .223 based rifle and a heavy .308 based rifle. Is it a tactical rifle or does it just look like a tactical weapon like a Walther P22? If they really wanted to introduce a tactical rifle they have the excellent AR-70/90, a .223 short stroke gas piston rifle co-developed with the SIG 550, they have civilian versions now that could be imported.
http://www.berettadefence.com/INGLESE/defa...litari70_90.htm

The stated MSRP of 600 dollar makes me think this was intended to go up against the AR-180B, SU-16, various kalashnikovs. When the marketing guys get to the Rx4 is might be advertised as the most comfortable, ergonomic, recoil reducing rifle available and at a fair price. and if it's a hit they can easily make some new Guigaro designed furniture and introduce the .308 model that accepts M14 or FAL mags, then the Shotgun, then the .22 conversion kit and you'd have one gun or a series of guns with the same manual of arms that covers all your longgun needs.

I fell like I've entered the twilight zone, where the people who run shit constantly feel oppressed by things that will never happen.

There is also Bushmaster's BAR10, which, judging from Raygun's fondness for 7.62x51mm battle rifles, his fondness for the BAR10, and the fact that it's on his site, is likely what he was referring to.

Let's go back to talking about the right to bear arms! This always ends well for everybody.