Predators aren't half as common as you'd think, and if the wounds in a crime are from a heavy pistol, that's going to rule out anything but professional work. Ditto if eyewitness reports hold up that the shots were silenced.

So always, -always- have at least one factory-standard Colt America on you. If you've got to kill someone on the street or in a public place, you shoot them with -that-, unsilenced. Then you drop the gun and walk, don't run, away.

By the book's own admission the Colt America is the most common handgun in the UCAS, and as long as you stay calm and avoid drawing attention to yourself you can kill a man in broad daylight on a crowded city street without anyone remembering you. Its how the pros do it today, and AR distracting everyone all the time only makes it easier.

There's a reason why actual crooks dispose of all guns used in a crime except sniper rifles, its the easiest way to link you to a crime scene.

And for god's sake, ditch your clothes -and burn them- and get a bath with a specialized soap, gunpowder residue will stick to you for days and your clothes for weeks, and is easily narrowed down to within an hour.

Hey Nezumi, I think he's mixing up between real life and Shadowrun world. That's probably where's he's getting the idea that predators aren't that common (rather heavy pistols). But I think it might also depend on what gun sales are like in the Shadowrun world and what everyone is packing. That said, silencers in the real world is very much so premeditated, but again, I think someone is drawing too much of a correlation between real world and shadowrun world.

Reading the previous posts, I just can't help but smile. I'm currently reading a textbook called a forensics handbook I borrowed from a coworker who used to teach forensics chemistry. Feel sorry for my players... they're gonna have to be careful in what they leave behind.

They don't give enough data about shadowrun to extrapolate without relying on heaping helpings of how its done in reality.

But I disagree that predators are going to be a common concealed firearm. They're big and flashy, and if you look at the rules for spotting weapons, remarkably easy to spot, unless they're in a concealable holster underneath a long coat of some form.

Most people who go that far are pros. We know for a fact that the Colt America is the most commonly available firearm because it actually says in the entry for it that's the case iirc.

Same problem with silencers, they make it even easier to spot their guns. Gangers aren't going to use them because they make them less loud and impressive, and robbers won't use them because its easier to hide a gun without a big assed cylinder attached to the barrel.

They don't give enough data about shadowrun to extrapolate without relying on heaping helpings of how its done in reality.

But I disagree that predators are going to be a common concealed firearm. They're big and flashy, and if you look at the rules for spotting weapons, remarkably easy to spot, unless they're in a concealable holster underneath a long coat of some form.

Most people who go that far are pros. We know for a fact that the Colt America is the most commonly available firearm because it actually says in the entry for it that's the case iirc.

Same problem with silencers, they make it even easier to spot their guns. Gangers aren't going to use them because they make them less loud and impressive, and robbers won't use them because its easier to hide a gun without a big assed cylinder attached to the barrel.

And I don't know why you'd think silencers are easy to get, they require a license...which requires a valid reason to have. It also makes it easy as hell to track. Which means you're only going to have a silencer if you get it black market, and that makes you a pro, not some BTL-junkie geeking somebody in a brain haze or for money. (that's another one, if you kill somebody in a public area but not under immediate view, take the poor slob's wallet and commlink. Toss the former and destroy the latter, but make it look like a robbery)

Most people might be armed, but the vast majority of them aren't going to have a silencer because its expensive, uncomfortable, unconcealable and, though not represented in the rules, makes a gun less accurate and powerful both from throwing off the balance and from decreasing the velocity of the round. Sure its not a -big- difference, but if you have the gun for self-defense, you don't have any need for the silencer. Consider how much nuyen that silencer and paying for the license costs compared to the base Colt America.

So that throws out BTL junkie and self-defense/spur of the moment murder as motives if its a big assed gun or one that's silenced. That's the vast majority of gun homicides in the 6th world, I'm damn sure, so you just got upgraded from random street crime to pre-meditated street crime, and if you did it in A-grade sec on up you just got triple the Lone Star heat.

I remember a discussion similar to this in RL back in 1994 with the Clinton Assault Weapons Ban. A lot of people thought the ban was being put through as "window dressing" legislation since it made the SKS (which is used in less than 1% of all armed crimes) Illegal and did nothing to restrict the sale of a .25 ACP short barrel semiauto made by Taurus (IIRC) which accounted for around 25% of shootings in the US. It banned large magazines and said nothing about belt clips. It would seem to me based on these sorts of statistics that the Streetline Special would be the choice of street punks everywhere. I also remember reading that the Colt America was the best selling pistol in the UCAS in one of the editions it was described in. I think if you were to compare the ARES Predator to an existing gun, it would be the M-1911A1, loved by professionals and gunenthusiasts, but outsold by a wide variety of 9MM pistols to the masses.

If the players are particularly destructive and ruthless on a run and very very careless in what they do, I can see the corp or whatever authorities going full out in resources for investigating the crime scene. Don't worry, I'm not gonna be totally crazy about it. But if they go to extremes, so will I.

For the other part, about the use of predators, I can see heavy pistols being used a lot, probably in shooting crimes because of the wide use of armour and for use against folks like orks and trolls, you want the heavier punch. If you know you need to take out a troll and you don't have something heavy like a shotgun and such, a heavy pistol is a good choice. Plus, depending on what system you're using, 3rd edition, or 4th? Because, there's some differences do to the damage system.

They key thing about it is that you shouldn't let PC's be so arrogant to assume that they are the first ones to come up with a trick. There are thousands of people out there spending all their time trying to circumvent security systems. Thats why Aries makes so much money researching new ways of stopping Chodes like Shadowrunners from breaking in and stealing stuff. Don't feel lilke you have to think on your feet to justify saying no to your PC's. If it derails YOUR story then they have to respect that. If they still dont like it you have till next game session to come up with a good justification if you need to anyways.

On the point of light arms. The real thing is that I think most GM's were a little too liberal about putting people in a bunch of armour. A good runner could easily kill someone with a hold out weapon in 3rd ed if the victim was unarmoured. Most people wont be walking around in armour. My favorite is to wait for them in a restroom and shoot em while they are on the crapper. You would be surpirzed how long it take people to find a body in a closed bathroom stall.

Which is why I favor a tricked out Colt Manhunter over a Predator of any stripe.

Alternatively, I'm debating asking Ray to write up a "heavy concealed" - a chopped down heavy pistol with a higher concealability, shorter magazine capacity and shorter ranges.

http://www.paraord.com/product/product.html?catid=11

Light pistols, unless you're an expert and a lucky one at that, don't make the same impression a heavy pistol does.

Lights are fine if you only plan on dealing with unaugmented humans, but c'mon - when was the last time that happened.

-Siege

As for the wealth of armor - check out the availability of even basic armor clothing.

It's like kevlar has become the new cotton.

-Siege

it has, because it's so dangerous to walk the streets that obvious armor is a fasion statement in most areas/social groups.

NOT wearing armor is a statement of arrogance/power. (Or stupidity, or magical ability)

Yeah, I can see it now...

Runner A: Our mark is coming down the street, the one in the tan suit.

Runner B: That one? I don't think he's wearing any armour...

Runner A: What?! Oh frag!!! Abort! Abort! The target isn't wearing armour, we're sooo fragged!

audience: ...

In the spirit of dirty tricks...

1. A drone implanted voluntarily within a subject.
2. A drone implanted involuntarily within a subject.

Imaginations may commence.

-Siege

Bingo.

-Siege

Thought everyone'd get a kick outta this:

http://www.inventgeek.com/Projects/lockpic...k/lockpick.aspx

To comment on heavy pistols, HPs will be the choice of gangers and other criminals because they are the choice of gangers and other criminals. BOJ statistics suggest that large caliber revolvers are the prefered weapons of criminals so perhaps the Ruger Warhawk should be more popular than the Predator. But, semi-automatics came in a close second. It is possible that they overtook revolvers at some point.

An interesting sidenote, more than 40% of criminals who use firearms during their crimes brandished them in self-defense.



One trick right out of Fields of Fire, when you run against a facility contact runners who ran against that facility in the past for information. Hatchetman was a genius.