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fenikso
... is out cool.gif .

Just if you did not notice. Because I noticed by the chance.
Moon-Hawk
Several people have noticed already, and side-discussions are cropping up in various threads, but I suppose this would be the place for everyone to talk about the new changes.
Anyone feeling surprised? Vindicated? Angered?
No one's really surprised by the Adept nerf, since it's been out in the German errata for a while, but what do people think?
Skippy
I think the Adept Nerf is probably for the best.

The rules as written are open to a lot of different interpretations. The fact that the book cautions against abuse of the Adept quality, but then leaves out what that abuse might be is confusing at best.

For instance. Recently there has been a thread about adept hackers. Right around the time that it was started, I had posed a similar question to my GM about a character I was making. That character could be hacker extraordinaire as a starting character via improved Ability: hacking 5, and could do so for very little build point cost. The same can be said for just about anything else. 5 build points (adept with 1 magic) could get you 4 extra dice for your pool. More points could get you quite a number of extra dice, even if the number spent on each pool was limited by the rank of the actual skill)

For those with adept characters already, it's got to be a pain in the butt... for those looking for better game balance, it's certainly a welcome change. Otherwise, the only thing keeping just about every joe schmoe from being an adept is a vague caution to GMs about abuse.

Just my $.02.

PlatonicPimp
hell, it's still abusive. They should raise the cost for improved ability in all skills to .25. All that lowering the cost for non-combat skills does is discourage players from playing combat adepts, which is rediculous because Combat adepts should be the norm. for 5 BP I can boost 2 skills by 2 points, past the unmodified limit? Best damn 5 BP spent, Ever. The only reason not to becasue you're going to get cyber.

I don't know about you , but I don't want the only choice to be between cyber or magic. Nerfing adepts so that their abilities cost proportional to other similar abilities would be a much welcome change.
Lagomorph
I like that they added the Immunity to inhalation vector toxins to gas masks
Cheops
I seem to be the only one who's enraged about the adept thing. Then again, every adept that I or anyone in my group has tried designing for SR4 has always had magic 4-6. Never lower. Sure the errata gets rid of the low Magic exploit but the only reason I see for its need is for loose enforcement of the "no Adept if you don't plan on being an adept" rule. This just makes it much more effective to be something other than an adept unless you do the skill character with Magic 1. I think it just makes the low Magic adept exploit more favorable than before.

5 points for +2 dice to two skills is much more favorable now. Before I'd make an Adept with 6 magic, +4 to 4 skills and other random stuff. Now I'd rather have Magic 5 (6) with Skillwires and Enhanced Articulation, and +2 to 8 skills and astral perception. Personally I think the second is far worse especially if they reintroduce Gayass (or is it Gaesa?) and don't force you onto the path of the Burnout when you lose Magic. Plus I find it generally better to be more focused at first and become versatile later.

Cyber, Gear, Magic, and Resonance are all more efficient than Adept abilities. The bonus was in IA. At least that's my feeling anyway.
ElFenrir
I don't see where this errata affects many, unless most adepts poured TONS into skills. I always played it with the intention of Improved Ability following the cap. My adept has just Perception 4(6) with some, Intimidation 5(7) with some more. I guess if folks were buying Pistols 4 and then 4 more dice in it, THEN they'd be affected.

but otherwise, besides the Attribute Boost nerf(and hitting THAT much to get it way past the limit was rare anyway), i don't see much of a problem.
PlatonicPimp
QUOTE (Cheops)

Cyber, Gear, Magic, and Resonance are all more efficient than Adept abilities. The bonus was in IA. At least that's my feeling anyway.


Cyber: Costs money, you lose essence. The magic point you lose in this can be considered "Spent" if you like, but there are other drawbacks to this. For one, you become harder to heal. Second, several skills and abilities (like attribute boost) are based on your magic rating, which is now lower. Third, you have to pay Karma on any further increases to magic as if you hadn't lost any magic at all.

Cyber can also be detected with a simple assense or cyberware detector. There is no means of detecting an adept technologically, and it is more difficult to suss one out astrally than a cyberhound. As far as I Know, there is no way to determine what powers an adept has.

Gear: any gear that isn't cyber can be used by an adept without trouble. since it can be added equally to both sides of the equation, it has no effect.

Magic: Again, Equally added to both sides. A mage can cast and sustain any spell they want on the adept. Heck, a mystic adept can do it themselves.

Resonance: apples to oranges, mate. name ONE THING that you can do with resonance that you can do with adept powers, or vice versa. (OK, you can increase your hacking pool. Resonance adds directly to it for the technomancer, while an adept can increase teh skill with IA. As far as I'm concerned, ot is a good thing that technomancers are better at hacking than adepts.)

The advantage to being an adept is concealability, access to powers unduplicatable by cyber, unlimited potential, lack of need for money for upgrades, no need for surgery, always active, undispellable, unjammable, unremovable badassery.
Mr.Platinum
Any one know when 2nd printing is going to be shipped?
JongWK
It's already in stores. smile.gif
Jaid
you mean the book? should already be in stores, or such is my understanding.
RunnerPaul
Though keep in mind, there are a few changes listed in v1.3 of the errata that are not in the second printing.

I think this is a brave move on the part of FanPro. The errata document should list everything that they know needs fixing, not just everything the latest corrected printing has fixed. It would have been very easy for them to just leave off the handful of changes that weren't in the corrected second printing, but they chose to include them instead. Bravo, I say.
Bearclaw
QUOTE (Jaid)
you mean the book? should already be in stores, or such is my understanding.

Which stores? Not my LGS. They said their distributer actually laughed at them when they tried to pin him down on a date.
emo samurai
Links? All I could find on Google was german sites, and I don't sprachen zie Deutsch.
RunnerPaul
No. If you can't find FanPro's official english site for shadowrun using google, you don't deserve to know where it is.
Mr.Platinum
www.shadowrunrpg.com

may give you a link Emo


and it's already out?


JongWK
emo:

Step 1) Go to Google.com

Step 2) Type "Shadowrun"

Step 3) Click on "Search"

Step 4) Click on the top result, which states "The official site for the FanPro US published roleplaying game Shadowrun, containing product information, freebies, and columns from the developers."
Mr.Platinum
or you can just typre in what i put in my post.


www.shadowrunrpg.com
nick012000
QUOTE (PlatonicPimp)
hell, it's still abusive. They should raise the cost for improved ability in all skills to .25. All that lowering the cost for non-combat skills does is discourage players from playing combat adepts, which is rediculous because Combat adepts should be the norm. for 5 BP I can boost 2 skills by 2 points, past the unmodified limit? Best damn 5 BP spent, Ever. The only reason not to becasue you're going to get cyber.

I don't know about you , but I don't want the only choice to be between cyber or magic. Nerfing adepts so that their abilities cost proportional to other similar abilities would be a much welcome change.

No, you can't.

SR4, p. 187, under Adept Powers: The maximum level for any adept powers is equal to their Magic Attribute.
RunnerPaul
So, Four skills by 1 point each then?
Moon-Hawk
Sure. Four skills by one point. So now you have a character with the weakest adept power list ever, NO cyber, no other magic, not a technomancer.....what about this character is overpowered?
Sure, it's five BP well spent for the zero-cyberware amish hackers of the world. sarcastic.gif Or maybe a face, who doesn't do anything else.
Sorry, that was maybe a little too sarcastic. I acknowledge that a character can get four skill points for only 5 BP in this way, but I'm having a hard time thinking of a character build that exploits this and becomes overpowered because of it.
I will humbly accept anyone's example of such a character. embarrassed.gif
Adam
QUOTE (RunnerPaul)
I think this is a brave move on the part of FanPro. The errata document should list everything that they know needs fixing, not just everything the latest corrected printing has fixed. It would have been very easy for them to just leave off the handful of changes that weren't in the corrected second printing, but they chose to include them instead. Bravo, I say.

I should also note that there are a bunch of things that have been fixed that aren't listed in the errata -- we normally limit the posted errata to issues that effect mechanical issues, understanding of mechanical issues, problems with game world information, or real world factual updates [mistakes in the credits, etc]. Generally not listed in the posted errata are typos, small organizational changes, image fixes, etc.
stormvane
I don't understand the whining about the skill caps for magical boosts. They need to adhere to game balance. Besides, improved ability still has an edge over other types of skill boost.

Example:
Samurai: Pistols (semi-autos): 6(+2), Agility 6, Reflex recorder (Pistols), Smartlink, ambidextrous

Single Pistol Dice pool: 17
Two Pistol Dice pool: 7

Adept: Pistols (semi-autos): 6(+2), Agility 6, Improved ability Pistols 3, ambidextrous

Single Pistol Dice Pool: 17
Two Pistol Dice Pool: 8

I know that is is only one die, but it is an advantage. Further, with the single pistol example, there is nothing to prevent an adept from also using a smartgun with appropriate eyewear. There are other weaknesses as well, Smartlinks can be broken, disabled, or even absent from the weapon altogether.The difference becomes even more pronounced when dealing with melee weapons. Improved ability can also be taken for things that reflex recorders and other bonus giving technology can't. Playing an adept is not about out-of-the-box total combat domination. That's the forte of cyberware. The adept is about building greater potential power over the course of play. As I have said in other posts, people should stop looking for no-brainer twink strategies.

I do, however, have a question that needs answering. Its about recoil (i don't want to beat a dead horse, but it keeps moving). I have read the reply by Rob Boyle about recoil comp being applied to each burst. However, with the errata 1.3 changes, the example of a wide burst now directly contradicts what Rob said.

To Review: A person is firing his smg with two points of recoil comp in a narrow burst. He has Agi 5 and automatics 4 for a total dice pool of 9. -3 of other modifiers apply. The two points of recoil compensation negate the -2 recoil penalty of the first burst. One the second burst, he switches to a wide burst because he is facing a lot of recoil. The recoil reduces his dice pool to 3.
Rob has stated that if you have recoil compensation, it applies to both bursts equally. Shouldn't this example leave is total dice pool at 5.
PlatonicPimp
But there ARE no brainer twink strategies. Cyberware is a no brainer twink strategy. Playing a summoner elf with max charisma is a no brainer twink strategy. And however much we say "But don't twink" the line between power gaming and intellignet character desing is a thn one. At what point does making intelligent decisions cross over into twinking? I know I've crossed that line many a time. I've yet to make a character under the new system that has less than 10 dice for their character's forte. Is that good design, or twinking? Is there an objective way to judge/

My game philosophy is that you cannot prevent twinking, but you can understand it and work with it. You have to understand WHAT the possible exploits are and learn to minimize them in your game design. The system itself must be designed to make sure that there are possibilities for good character design while making sure that no particular choice is universally better than all others. But you can't just say' don't twink" because that doesn't solve the basic problem, which is the exploit available in the rules.
Squinky
Stormvane your example pitting adepts v.s. Sammys has one big problem. Street Sams will most likey have higher attributes, even in agility I would say the average human sam has a 7 with the muscle toner. So that kinda makes up for the adept ability to get more skill dice. Unless of course the adept was crazy enough to get his agility improved with the adept power that costs 2 whole points to do the same thing .2 essence costs a sam....
PlatonicPimp
Or uses the attibute boost power which can boost his agility up to his modified max based on a die roll you can spend edge on for .25 points.
Squinky
But takes a simple action now, the traitorous power! I love the power, but a simple action every fight makes it only feasible to have one attribute boosted power, and would make drawing a weapon and attacking pretty impossible if you use it in the first round...And still, the typical sammy will have that +2 agility and str right out of the box...
FrankTrollman
QUOTE
Playing a summoner elf with max charisma is a no brainer twink strategy.


You know, honestly the best conjurers I've seen in SR4 have been Hermetics. Binding spirits is such a big, powerful, and dangerous deal that I have yet to see any character seriously run into the Charisma cap for max bound spirits. Even twinker conjurers usually just have 1-3 spirits that they focus on. Drain from binding is so large, and so random that twinking a conjurer is more about minimizing healing times than it is about rolling the most dice to resist drain.

Honestly, the twink conjurer appears to be a Dwarf Hermetic that specializes their Medicine skill in Magical Health. I don't think that there really are any "no brainer twink strategies" anymore. Twinking is actually kind of a lot of work. So far, everything that people have put forward as being a "no brainer" has generally been not all that great.

-Frank
PlatonicPimp
The charisma isn't to resist drain, it's to bind the most spirits possible.
FrankTrollman
I know what it's for, I'm just saying that your min/max fu is weak. The high end of power conjuring is all Charisma independent.

Remote Service Rush: Summon an unbound spirit, send it on remote service. Repeat. This tactic is really nasty, and runs out when you become too stunned to continue doing it. Thus, it is limited by your First Aid skill (to remove Stun blocks) and to a lesser extent by your Willpower (to have more Stun). Thus Hermetic Dwarves are the best at this highly abusive tactic.

Overcasting: Summon a spirit that is as large as you can manage - double your own Magic if you can swing it. Spirits of this size can waltz through most major engagements by themselves. Of course, the key here is to not die, rather than be able to do it at all. Your survival chances are inceased by having more physical damage boxes at a rate 3 times that of having more drain resistance dice. But your rate of fire is proportional to your Biotech abilities more than anything (followed by your body). So actually the best single shot is held by an Ork Fern Witch, followed by a Dwarven Hermetic, followed by an Elvish Shaman. The best Rate of Fire is held by the Dwarf Hermetic though.

Big Bound Spirits: Conjuring up your 6+ spirits doesn't mean dick unless they are badass. Binding spirits is really time consuming and as dangerous as Overcasting. Maybe more so. Binding Spirits however often targets your stun boxes like a Remote Service Rush (favoring the Dwarf) while inflicting massive drain like the overcasting (favoring the Dwarf).

Yeah, an Elf can have 8 spirits on hand. But that's not where the power is, so I don't care.

-Frank
TheHappyAnarchist
QUOTE (FrankTrollman)
Overcasting: Summon a spirit that is as large as you can manage - double your own Magic if you can swing it. Spirits of this size can waltz through most major engagements by themselves. Of course, the key here is to not die, rather than be able to do it at all. Your survival chances are inceased by having more physical damage boxes at a rate 3 times that of having more drain resistance dice. But your rate of fire is proportional to your Biotech abilities more than anything (followed by your body). So actually the best single shot is held by an Ork Fern Witch, followed by a Dwarven Hermetic, followed by an Elvish Shaman. The best Rate of Fire is held by the Dwarf Hermetic though.

Gives a good reason to have Magic at 6 actually.
F12 is an extra power over F10. Not sure if it is worth it, but would be a likely possibility.

A F12 Spirit of Man w/ Optional powers of Innate Spell - Stunball and Innate Spell - Heal, Innate Spell - Mob Mind and Fear is a very dangerous character.
B 13, A 12, R 14 S10. All others 12, except Initiative is 26. Guess who goes first.

Rolling 24 dice to cast their F 15 Stunball. Talking average of 8 hits for 23 damage stun to a 15 meter area. Can up the F if needed to cover larger area. Rolling 24 dice on drain resistance test, 8 hits on that means no drain. 14 boxes of stun available, so overcasting to 24 is very doable, taking on average 4 stun.

Can also heal anyone in the party without taking drain, fully of all physical damage.

Mob Mind should be obvious. You don't even have to beat your opponents, they join you.

Fear is even worse. 24 dice vs opponents willpower. Max of 10 or so. You will be running from them.

Heck, if they feel like going old school on you, they can punch you, base DV 5 S, but rolling 24 dice on the attack test.

This is the major flaw with a linear system.

Fire spirit guards can engulf you, rolling 24 dice to "hit" and having a base DV of 12. Same with any spirit with elemental attack. Looking at 20 damage vs vehicles. That is enough to get through the everything but the Citymaster. If you manage to get 1 net hit over the city master then you can blow that to smithereens too.

And if you run up against something really formidable, like a tank, have no fear. Give the spirit of man Innate Spell - Powerbolt.
F24 Power bolt, Drain of 13. Rolling 24 dice to cast and then 24 to resist drain, you get a base DV of 32, and end up taking 5 boxes of physical damage. Judging by the stats in the book, I seriously doubt we will see anything that can take DV 32. Except maybe the GD with their F = Excessive spirits overcasting spells on them.
If for some reason you find someone who has excessive magical shielding, use an elemental manip spell to pound them, it is only 4 more boxes of damage.

This is seriously sicker than I thought.

Oh yeah, final note. Magic 6 + Summoning (Aptitude 7) + Specialty in Spirits of Man + F3 Summoning focus for Air, Earth, Fire & Man can easily be gotten by starting character. Oh and F2 power focus. Plus any mentor if you have them.
18 dice to start on the summoning test, 20 vs man, + any edge.
Spirit gets 12. Averages 4 hits, for a total of 8 Physical drain.
Roll 10 dice for drain resistance (can't afford 6 and 6) to get 3 successes.

So for the low cost of 5 physical (First Aid 5 + Log 5 = 3 successes dropping it to 4 Phys) that may or may not be able to be healed by the very spirit you summon, (can you Heal drain with magic) you can have all of this major ass kicking as a starting character.

Pretty sick. Imagine what a dragon or initiate can do. By the RAW, playing or using anything other than magicians is for suckers.
stormvane
Two points: One, when i say brainless twink strategy, I mean any strategy that seeks to endlessly repeat some actions or purchase without any thought to possibly equal or even better strategy that require some actual creativity and for thought. For instance, there are two primary damage mitigation strategies for physical damage types: dodging it and resisting it, both with inherent pros and cons. Instead of smartly mixing the two, perhaps with a preference toward the characters strengths, people repeatedly buy the same power or more levels of it without any idea that some diversity might benefit them. I'm not going to stand here and tell a person playing a troll not to put serious power behind resisting damage, or someone with a good reaction to not put emphasis on dodging as a combat strategy. If 10 dice in a forte is your threshold for comfort, then stick to it. I wouldn't call such a person a twinker. In fact, dice has nothing to do with it.

Two, with the new drain rules, an elf shaman is only one stun box behind but one drain resistance die ahead. With the ability to keep more spirits on tap, I imagine the stakes come out about even.
MK Ultra
"I pop up and shoot!"
blakkie
QUOTE (Squinky)
But takes a simple action now, the traitorous power! I love the power, but a simple action every fight makes it only feasible to have one attribute boosted power, and would make drawing a weapon and attacking pretty impossible if you use it in the first round...And still, the typical sammy will have that +2 agility and str right out of the box...

I've been away for a bit, so could you help me out by pointing me to where it was clarified what kind of action it takes? I don't see this in the errata, and it is one of the things about Boost that I send in a question about. The other thing was whether the amount you can be Boosted by is capped by the levels of Boost you have.
Darkness
You have to download errata 1.3, here.
And then you find it on page 2
QUOTE (Errata 1.3 @ page 2)
p. 187 Attribute Boost
Add the following to the second paragraph: “No attribute may be boosted past its maximum augmented value (see p. 62). Attribute Boost requires a Simple Action to activate.”

That should answer your questions blakkie wink.gif
blakkie
One of them, thanks. smile.gif I printed that out a few minutes back, but somehow missed the second part of that entry. Maybe it was the screaming kid that wanted to eat the paper that distracted me? embarrassed.gif

Actually I guess it answers two of my questions, the second answer by abstention being "There isn't a power level based cap, only the maximum augmented."

P.S. @Squinky: Even if it was a Free Action you only get one Free Action, so Boost for multiple Attributes would still be somewhat limited. As for Boost + Draw + Attack, I'd think that allowing Quickdraw of a knife (being roughly pistol-sized) isn't entirely out of the spirit of the action even if the RAW Weenies would claim you can't do it because you aren't "firing" the knife. wobble.gif Sword/staff/whip would seem to be too large to fall under the Quickdraw action though.
redwulf25_ci
QUOTE (FrankTrollman)
I know what it's for, I'm just saying that your min/max fu is weak. The high end of power conjuring is all Charisma independent.

Remote Service Rush: Summon an unbound spirit, send it on remote service. Repeat. This tactic is really nasty, and runs out when you become too stunned to continue doing it. Thus, it is limited by your First Aid skill (to remove Stun blocks) and to a lesser extent by your Willpower (to have more Stun).

Or if you're a Shaman a high Charisma to go with the high Will and not take drain in the first place.
ElFenrir
We always played Attribute Boost under a Simple Action, though i don't see a problem with the quickdraw thing. Then again, drawing is a simple action, so you could boost, draw, then position yourself for the attack. If you're going unarmed, i suppose you could boost 2 attributes, then position for the attack.

Quickdraw is a free action, is it not? I can't quite recall and i don't have the book with me. If it is, technically you could boost 2 attributes, then quickdraw and be ready for the next turn.

The cap isn't so terrible...i didn't know that was the case til now, but typically, most folks roll 6-7 dice for a boost unless they REALLY jack the power...i typically land 2-3 hits a boost with my adept. With a base 4, you'd need 5 hits just to hit the 9(or max augmented for a human.)

I guess it would really only start to suck if you had a 6 in an attribute and bought the power at lv. 4 or something. Then i can see folks getting a bit upset about the nerf.



blakkie
QUOTE (ElFenrir)
Quickdraw is a free action, is it not? I can't quite recall and i don't have the book with me. If it is, technically you could boost 2 attributes, then quickdraw and be ready for the next turn.

Quickdraw is a simple action that includes both drawing and a attack that would normally be a simple action all by itself. Although the wording of the text implies it is about ranged attacks i personally don't see a problem with extending that to a melee attack, with an appropriately sized weapon.

QUOTE
The cap isn't so terrible...i didn't know that was the case til now, but typically, most folks roll 6-7 dice for a boost unless they REALLY jack the power...i typically land 2-3 hits a boost with my adept. With a base 4, you'd need 5 hits just to hit the 9(or max augmented for a human.)

I guess it would really only start to suck if you had a 6 in an attribute and bought the power at lv. 4 or something. Then i can see folks getting a bit upset about the nerf.


I don't calling it a "nerf" at all. I never expected to be able to exceed augmented max for an attribute with it. *shrug* Even it taking a Simple Action is way better than it being a Complex Action, and without it being spelled out that was just as good a guess. I really didn't expect it to be a Free Action.
FrankTrollman
QUOTE (redwulf25_ci)

Or if you're a Shaman a high Charisma to go with the high Will and not take drain in the first place.

Good luck with that. Even a Force 4 spirit has a perceptible chance of delivering 8S drain. At that point, you'll average taking no drain if your Willpower + Charisma is 24 (which it isn't).

Conjuring is intensely random. There is no such thing as a character who successfully summons every time, nor is there a character who doesn't take drain sometimes.

-Frank
Azralon
QUOTE (TheHappyAnarchist)
A F12 Spirit of Man w/ Optional powers of Innate Spell - Stunball and Innate Spell - Heal, Innate Spell - Mob Mind and Fear is a very dangerous character.


I'm not so sure that a spirit can take "Innate Spell" multiple times to load out different spells.

Italics mine:

QUOTE (p289)
Innate Spell
Type: A • Action: Complex • Range: per spell • Duration: per spell A creature with the Innate Spell power has the instinctive ability to cast one spell. The critter must possess the Spellcasting skill in order to use the power effectively. Innate Spells cast by a critter are the same as those cast by magicians, and magicians can use Counterspelling against them as normal.


This states that whenever you take Innate Spell, you get just one spell. This part is easily agreed upon.

QUOTE (p294)
In addition to their standard Powers, each spirit also has one Optional Power for every 3 full points of Force. A magician selects what Optional Power(s) he wishes a summoned spirit to possess as he summons it. The Optional Powers possessed by a spirit may not be changed later.


There's nothing there that says you can or can't take any individual optional power multiple times. Obviously there's no use in taking any other optional power more than once, so it becomes a question of "lack of precedent" versus "possible interpretation."
TheHappyAnarchist
That is a nice try and I had hope for a bit for some toning down. Alas not though.

The problem is that the power is not Innate Spell.

The power is Innate Spell: Heal or what have you.

Thus Innate Spell: Heal and Innate Spell: Stunball are in fact two seperate and distinct powers. Reference Thunderbird, which lists Innate Spell (Lightning Bolt)

On the other hand, Enhanced Senses for many critters lists as such.
Enhanced Senses (Low light, thermo, see's through clothing, what have you)

Which implies that more than one expression of a power can be gained. I imagine this is for ease of use, and a critter that had two innate spells would be as such.
Innate Spell (Lightning Bolt, Lightning Ball) for instance.

It is all just theory, but the broken part is not that they have three innate spells, it is the F12.

Azralon
Agreed, it's the F12 that's the scary part. But as previously discussed, the summoner of the F12 is effectively playing Russian roulette and will eventually blow him/herself up from physical drain. By "blow," I mean "instantly suicide."

The precedent of multiple Enhanced Senses still doesn't completely translate into valid multiple Innate Spells for a spirit. Senses come with the factory model while the "magician selects what Optional Power(s) he wishes a summoned spirit to possess." One is a RAW description of a species while the other is player whim.

That is to say that while it's canonically valid to have multiples of the same critter power, the fact remains that nothing (except possibly the GM sitting in front of you) explicitly says it's okay to give a spirit multiple Innate Spells as their optional powers.
blakkie
QUOTE (Azralon)
That is to say that while it's canonically valid to have multiples of the same critter power, the fact remains that nothing (except possibly the GM sitting in front of you) explicitly says it's okay to give a spirit multiple Innate Spells as their optional powers.

However there isn't anything explicitly forbidding it either. You may choose to read into it what you want, but the RAW by itself certainly does not rule out multiple Innate Spells. *shrug*
RobertB
This question is primarily directed to Adam, but I'd like to know when the SR4 .pdf will be updated on the Battlecorps website with the new erratta, and will our download links be refreshed?

Thanks,
Robert
Wizard
QUOTE (RobertB)
This question is primarily directed to Adam, but I'd like to know when the SR4 .pdf will be updated on the Battlecorps website with the new erratta, and will our download links be refreshed?

Thanks,
Robert

Probably this week as the PDF is ready and only Battlecorps and DriveThruRPG need to be co-ordinated as replied by Adam and Rob on this thread.
Azralon
QUOTE (blakkie @ Jan 10 2006, 12:13 PM)
QUOTE (Azralon @ Jan 9 2006, 02:28 PM)
That is to say that while it's canonically valid to have multiples of the same critter power, the fact remains that nothing (except possibly the GM sitting in front of you) explicitly says it's okay to give a spirit multiple Innate Spells as their optional powers.

However there isn't anything explicitly forbidding it either. You may choose to read into it what you want, but the RAW by itself certainly does not rule out multiple Innate Spells.

Lookit that, Blakkie is agreeing with me. Where's my red pen?
RunnerPaul
QUOTE (Adam)
Generally not listed in the posted errata are typos, small organizational changes, image fixes, etc.

Just out of curiosity, would it be possible to clean out the errata thread of anything that's been corrected, whether or not it's listed on 1.3? I just skimmed through all 16 pages, and while I can see that many of the posts in there have been addressed, a large portion of the posts involve those minor changes that wouldn't be listed under the above criterion.

Adam
Ugh. That's a good question; doing so would be really time intensive, and I'm not a huge fan of going back and retroactively editing threads in such a way.

I'd like to suggest that a new thread be created, instead. I can go through the current thread and re-post items to the new thread that were not addressed in the 1.3 errata/sending printing. Then the new thread can continue as normal. Does that make sense?
Rotbart van Dainig
Well, as soon as the updated version of the PDF is available, sure.
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