I agree with this thread's general theme. Rather than listening to Raskolnikov's well-thought-out ideas and in-character justifications to curtail this player's abuse, clunky rules modifications should be made, or fourth-wall-shattering Deus Ex Machina plot interventions should occur, often and without any sort of sensible reason. Heck, assault rifles should be bind-on-pickup whites! No auction house or disenchanting allowed!
Oh, wait, I'm being completely sarcastic.
Full Version: What to do about that accountant player
wtb +15 Rea 2h assault rifel pst
zomg Ares Alpha si teh hunter lootz
| QUOTE (DigitalSoul) |
| Heh, looks like somebody didn't read through the SR3 Shadowrun Companion section on hiring a shadowrunner. I do remember there was some ways that Mr. Johnsons kept tabs on the runners during runs, I don't have the book on me at this time but I think it was a enough to identify the act of looting and give a "hint" that it wasn't approved. |
If you're talking about p.57 of the Shadowrun Companion, it nowhere mentions looting.
It's also one of the dumbest things written in any of the books, for multiple reasons.
1) Surveillance of the runner team would involve a large number of assets and personnel. This brings your expenses up significantly, making the run less profitable. And if you're using those spirits, drones and people to watch the runners, then you aren't using them to protect your corporate sites.
2) So much for plausible deniability. Now all those mages, riggers, and other surveillance types know that your company contracted runner team X to hit company Y. If any of them are looselipped, short on cash, or get captured, your company is going to have to pay for all damage inflicted on company Y. And that surveillance footage they took is evidence that can be used against you.
(Note that the runners don't pose the same kind of threat because they don't know who hired them. At least if Mr. Johnson is competent they don't.)
3) Competent runner teams will notice they are being observed. The runners will typically then try to eliminate those watching them. Eliminated surveillance costs your company and could be traced back to your company by the runners, the other corporation, or Lone Star. In defending themselves, your personnel could damage the runners to the point they cannot complete the run. And the battle would likely bring unwanted attention from Lone Star and/or company Y.
4) A runner team that discovers they are being observed would be most likely to assume the observers are from the site they're supposed to hit or Lone Star. Continuing the run at that point would be the height of stupidity, so any competent team will scrub the existing plan and try to go to ground. Thus, surveillance of the runners reduces the chance of the run being completed.
5) Even if they miss the runners; company Y's drones, spirits, astral mages, and personnel could spot your surveillance. If they do, the run has almost certainly failed, no matter what the runners do.
| QUOTE (tisoz) |
| If he specifies no looting, that will point a finger to an inside job and move the Johnson way up the line of suspects after the job is pulled. From this line of reasoning, some level of looting is almost SOP. I was getting at the overboard type of looting, taking everything that isn't nailed down. Then coming back with a prybar to get that stuff. |
Hehehe.
What sort of shadowrunner doesn't go in with a prybar in the first place?
| QUOTE (Ed Simons) |
| There are more reasons to pick up that Ares Predator than just selling it. And from your example of the Excalibur, you clearly consider some looting to be acceptable. I was asking why some posters think all looting is bad and that it would automatically lead to a negative reputation for runners that did it. How would the Johnson know the runners 'wasted time' anyway? He wouldn't want that much detail on how they did the run and the runners wouldn't want to waste time telling him, either. BTW, what kind of idiot Johnson offers to pay expenses? |
If you're picking up a single predator for a reason that increases the odds of the run succeeding, I as a GM (and my J as well) in most cases would have no problem with that. But that is an unusual circumstance.
Yes, SOME looting is allowed and expected (unless otherwise specified). If you loot everything, like the PC in question is, it's a silly and unnecessary risk. I don't think anyone said no PC is ever allowed to loot.
A J might not know that you wasted time this time, but if you come back with a haul of a dozen AKs, the fixer will know you did a bit extra. If you make a regular habit of it, he'll put 2 and 2 together. WHen making recommendations, he will avoid looting teams if he doesn't feel they can handle themselves. It is a long term reputation thing that is built up, generally.
My J's will regularly pay a flat amount 'for expenses', or accept an itemized list if his pay is very low (with the option of not paying for whatever he pleases. This lets him appear generous even if he's not until actual payout time.)
| QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685) |
| If they want "Undivided attention", it costs extra. If they want the job done, we'll get it done and pocket any Nice Things™ we find on the way. We're professional criminals out to make money however we can, not fucking wageslaves clacka-clacka-clacking away. |
Indeed.
If the J doesn't want looting, he better specify it up front.
If the runners want to the take the risk to loot everything, that's their choice.
Personally, I don't think it should be a problem. I agree with the people who say don't worry about it if it's grabbing the occasional quick-to-loot, easy-to-carry item, and merely enforce realistic consequences if they waste a lot of time or try to grab heavier stuff. Shadowrunners are criminals, so looting should be second nature for most of them. If their looting interferes with the run, then the first time or so that they get hit by reinforcements should clue them in a bit.
The only time that looting would affect their reputation is if they do it during a well-paid stealth job - where no one is supposed to know the runners were even there at all. And that should only keep them away from those kind of jobs in the future.
The only time that looting would affect their reputation is if they do it during a well-paid stealth job - where no one is supposed to know the runners were even there at all. And that should only keep them away from those kind of jobs in the future.
| QUOTE (nezumi) |
| WHen making recommendations, he will avoid looting teams if he doesn't feel they can handle themselves. |
(Emphasis added)
This is it right here. It isn't about looting at all, it's about competence. If a team is so amazingly good that they can steal everything that isn't embedded twenty feet into the ground (like, say, the building foundation) and get the job done every time, they'll get hired. If the team that never looks twice at a credstick sitting in an office that isn't technically part of their objective doesn't quite manage to pull it off most of the time, they won't get hired.
It's as simple as that, no need to bring looting into it.
(Incidentally, I'll be dropping discussion threads like crazy—my internet access has been down since Friday and may be for another day or two)
~J
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