Hasaku
Feb 15 2006, 11:15 PM
| QUOTE (Aku) |
| as the sub-title suggests, i'm examining this on a rules As Written level |
I implore you, turn back from the mouth of madness! The rules of SR4 were never meant to endure close scrutiny. They are a carpet of leaves concealing a bottomless pit of "wtf does that mean?"
As for the nature of the Flash-Pak:
| QUOTE |
| The size of a pack of cigarettes, this unit contains four quartz-halogen micro-flashes designed to fire in random strobe sequences to disorient, distract, and blind opponents. Anyone facing a flash-pak <rules stuff> |
What about that suggests grenade?
Rotbart van Dainig
Feb 15 2006, 11:20 PM
About any device in the SR universe now is electronic...
Moon-Hawk
Feb 16 2006, 12:14 AM
Pants are now an electronic device.
hobgoblin
Feb 16 2006, 01:13 AM
| QUOTE (Hasaku @ Feb 16 2006, 12:15 AM) |
As for the nature of the Flash-Pak:
| QUOTE | | The size of a pack of cigarettes, this unit contains four quartz-halogen micro-flashes designed to fire in random strobe sequences to disorient, distract, and blind opponents. Anyone facing a flash-pak <rules stuff> |
What about that suggests grenade?
|
nothing, realy. but its under the explosives heading.
allso, how hard would it be to look away or trow it into the next room?
and isnt flare protection supposed to protect against it?
basicly that quote says neither or if its supposed to be held or trown. my guess is that you can do both...
Hasaku
Feb 16 2006, 01:19 AM
I'm sure you can do either, though your GM might choose to lessen the effect of one lying on the floor since people aren't looking at it head-on. Except for the ninjas on the ceiling. You'd also be exposed to the effect yourself if you just tossed one into the middle of a firefight.
hobgoblin
Feb 16 2006, 01:45 AM
true, but as a decoy or cover (similar to smoke in a way) i would say it can work.
and we dont know at what angle it no longer works. designed right, it can work at a allmost 180 degree area for each bulb (just attach a removable cover on one side so that you can turn that side towards you when you use it as a held device).
the point is that its not so much about the sharpness of the light as it is that there are strobes continualy blinking on and off. if you have ever stepped onto a dance floor under a strobe you know how disorienting that effect can be. now have 4 diffrent strobes blinking at random and you suddenly see something and then its across the room.
hell, i have had problems judging peoples direction of movment under a single strobe, having 4 going off in random patterns will play havoc with my sight. having that happen in a combat enviroment can be murder.
but the effect will be best in a area without any extra light...
the word facing is a very loose term, do i have to look at it directly, or just look in its general direction? how narrow is the beam of light that each bulb generates?
Ryu
Feb 16 2006, 12:17 PM
@Aku: While a skinlink-adapter is correctly listed under electronics, "any device" is where it can be installed. Specific rules beat general rules.
I once read WH40k-forums on a regular basis. Donīt start that kind of arguments here.
Aku
Feb 16 2006, 12:34 PM
| QUOTE (Ryu) |
@Aku: While a skinlink-adapter is correctly listed under electronics, "any device" is where it can be installed. Specific rules beat general rules.
I once read WH40k-forums on a regular basis. Donīt start that kind of arguments here. |
but it doesnt SAY ANY device, it says any ELECTRONICS device. I agree that if it actually said ANY device, this discussion wouldnt even be happening, or even any ELECTRICAL device, but again, because it specifically references a section of the gear list, i think people just WANT it to be able to be installed on anything, so that they can skinlink everything, and virtually casterate one archetype.
TinkerGnome
Feb 16 2006, 12:54 PM
| QUOTE (Aku) |
| but it doesnt SAY ANY device, it says any ELECTRONICS device. |
Really? Could have fooled me.
| QUOTE (SR4 @ p318) |
| With skinlink, a device is adapted to send and receive data transmitted through the electrical field on the surface of metahuman skin. |
It doesn't really destroy hackers for a lot of reasons. 99% of the population isn't going to be paranoid enough to skinlink everything since you lose some convenience that way. Even 99% of security professionals won't (the elites will, though).
Aku
Feb 16 2006, 01:04 PM
and again...
| QUOTE (p. 318 @ SR4) |
Accessories: Typically used with commlinks, these accessories are compatible with any electronic device. All are wireless equiped. See also, Vision Enhancers p. 323.
...
Skinlink: With skinlink, a device is adapted to send and receive data transmitted through the electrical field on the surface of metahuman skin. Though limited to touch, skinlink communication has the advantage of being protected from signal interception or jamming.
|
A skinlink is an accessory, an accessory is compatable with any electronic device.
"a device" references the type of device an accessory can work with.
Ryu
Feb 16 2006, 01:35 PM
You take "any electronic device can" as "anything else canīt". That is not the case.
A skinlinks regular use might be with electronic devices, but that does not exclude fitting your cars steering-wheel with one (and Iīd only ever allow opening the doors via wireless, nothing else).
Rotbart van Dainig
Feb 16 2006, 01:48 PM
| QUOTE (Aku) |
| A skinlink is an accessory, an accessory is compatable with any electronic device. |
Sure. Since it is 'electronic device' and not 'Electronic Device', thats anything from your color-changing pants storing your music to a handgrenade featureing an electronic primer.
Aku
Feb 16 2006, 01:55 PM
| QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig) |
| QUOTE (Aku @ Feb 16 2006, 03:04 PM) | | A skinlink is an accessory, an accessory is compatable with any electronic device. |
Sure. Since it is 'electronic device' and not 'Electronic Device', thats anything from your color-changing pants storing your music to a handgrenade featureing an electronic primer.
|
i was almost ready to cede the point to this arguement, however, neither weapon accessories, or armor mods are capitalized in the text, either. so according to that logic, anything that provides an armor bonus, and is worn, can be mod'd. However, this isn't true, for helemets provide armor, and are worn, but as far as i an tell, can't have the mods put on them.
Although, you might be able to make the arguement that whatever mods are on the armor apply for the helmet, as shields have a specific list of mods they can have on them.
Rotbart van Dainig
Feb 16 2006, 02:03 PM
| QUOTE (Aku) |
| i was almost ready to cede the point to this arguement, however, neither weapon accessories, or armor mods are capitalized in the text, either. |
Maybe, but that's not the point. Strong exclusions in SR only come from capitalization, as in that case, game terms are used.
'electronic device' in SR4 is an ultra-broad term, since the basic assumption is that anything, unless specified otherwise, is wireless enabled.
TinkerGnome
Feb 16 2006, 02:12 PM
The wireless bit at the start of the gear section pretty much lumps wireless devices into either mechanical or electronic. What constitutes a "mechanical" device... I don't know.
neko128
Feb 16 2006, 08:54 PM
| QUOTE (TinkerGnome) |
| The wireless bit at the start of the gear section pretty much lumps wireless devices into either mechanical or electronic. What constitutes a "mechanical" device... I don't know. |
Anything wireless is going to be electronic, at least in part.
It seems to me that Skinlink pretty much applies to anything that can be operated electronically.
Shrike30
Feb 16 2006, 09:12 PM
I'm gonna stick with the non-ridiculous interpretation of "electronic device"... my watch is electronic, my commlink is electronic, my digicam is electronic, and my stylin' new low-light enabled sunglasses are electronic, and in SR all of these things are wireless... why in the hell would they *not* be able to handle skinlinking, if it's basically an extremely localized version of wireless?
Rotbart is right... the only time SR ever specifically excludes something with an inclusive statement (that is, it says "Objects X can have Y done to them" while meaning that ONLY X can have Y done to them) is when a Capitalized Noun is used to identify something, rather than a lowercase noun.
This distinction is important. For example, if you were to say "Wearing pirate pants and an eyepatch around is indicative of a particular lifestyle," that would mean something entirely different than "Wearing pirate pants and an eyepatch around is indicative of a particular Lifestyle," the latter of which would probably leave most players wondering how much you pay for a month of Pirate Lifestyle.
TinkerGnome
Feb 17 2006, 12:29 AM
I don't know, but it's probably in pieces of eight.
b1ffov3rfl0w
Mar 6 2006, 12:28 AM
| QUOTE (runefire32) |
| QUOTE (Lagomorph @ Feb 13 2006, 12:30 PM) | | Yeah, Where would you wear your comlink so that it touches your skin? |
In my pants?
|
The power of hot sim VR ... In My Pants.
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