Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Skinlink
Dumpshock Forums > Discussion > Shadowrun
Pages: 1, 2
Aku
so, everyone counters hackers with skinlink, BUT notice that it is a section "Electronics", under accessories, and it says that the accessories can work with any ELECTRONICS device.

Maybe you can't skinlink your gun after all...
Cold-Dragon
well, if you put a smartgun system on your gun, that is technically an electronic (or is a bunch of wheels and mechanics bits giving you that sight in your eye?) so you could probably skinlink to it anyways.

That's probably the common method of routing it from gun to goggles, or just to your eyes if you're a proper cyber.
Punkxronin
now that i've been reading, skinlink will protect you from outside sources (unless the hacker, or technomacer touches your skin, and then tries to hack you.) The skinlink uses the already exsisting neural pathways and eletromagnetic signals that get sent all though out your body (commands from the brain to the muscles to move). So you're not broadcasting a wireless signal...

Skinlink can work with any eletronic device (that's set up to use skinlink), but you have to touch it to get it to work... so in theory, you could walk up to your toaster, touch it and it will make your toast perfect...not very convenient... but as you're already holding a pistol, it makes more sense to skinlink it then to use wireless or your pistol might start shooting your friends in the presence of enemy hackers.


Connection goes as follows: Cybereyes/goggles skinlinked to your Comlink. Comlink goes to your pistol. You route your gear though your comlink.
hobgoblin
more correctly, skinlink use your bodys ability to carry electrical signals.

irl microsoft have applyed for a patent on a similar kind of system.

most likely in SR your basicly using the same protocol for both wireless and skinlink transmissions, so the change over will be quick. you basicly just need to change from one kind of antenna to another...

so im guessing that you can have some devices that do wireless, some that do skinlink, and some that do both. and with a comlink in place they can all talk to each other as the comlink handles the signal routing...
SL James
I want one of those Korean skinlinked iPods - when the video ones come out.
emo samurai
QUOTE
I want one of those Korean skinlinked iPods - when the video ones come out.


The Koreans have skinlinked iPods?
SL James
Technically, yes. There's a prototype.

QUOTE
KAIST researchers modified an iPod nano and an earphone with its test chips for demonstration purposes. A user would need to keep a finger constantly pressed to a conductor on the iPod, which would send the audio signal through the arm to the earphone. The chips can produce data rates of up to 2 megabits per second while consuming less than 10 microwatts, Song said.


Hence the specific desire for a skinlinked video iPod since I'd already be touching it anyway.

In other news, MS holds one of the patents on the tech.
neko128
If you're wearing gloves, you can't skinlink?
Lagomorph
Yeah, Where would you wear your comlink so that it touches your skin?
runefire32
QUOTE (Lagomorph)
Yeah, Where would you wear your comlink so that it touches your skin?

In my pants?
Moon-Hawk
Maybe it's like this:
Japan one-ups us again
This Japanese company is working on a similar technology to the one IBM patented. Except this one only needs to be within 20cm of the skin to interface with the electric field. I'm willing to say that skinlink needs to be within a few cm of the skin to work, not actually touching it. Solves a lot of problems.
Cang
do you need to get a skinlink for every item you want to use it, or just your comlink? It wouldn't be that expensive if you needed to buy it for every item and would make more sense to me if you did. Anyone want to clear this up for me? cyber.gif
Aku
i think it's for every item, as it's an accessory for electronic items, you can't get away with just buying 1 scope for your collection of guns, rght?
Josh The Stampede
Also, a lot of cyberware doesn't even need to be connected to your commlink at all. Your cyberarm has a dni, it can be isolated with the wireless off, no hacking allowed. Your eyes/smartlink and ears needs to be connected for you to get AR info. But most everything else has no need to be controlled by anything other than a DNI.
Shrike30
But if you have, say, a device installed in that arm, it might be handy to have THAT skinlinked...

How about heavy armor or the environmental protection: electrical armor? Would that screw with this stuff?
Josh The Stampede
What sort of device requires external control? Besides implanted commlinks and sensory stuff or smartlinks, I mean.
Shrike30
That's mostly the kind of thing I was thinking about. Put, say, a laser mic in someone's cyberarm, and you've got to have the controls for it ready to go. Or let's say you get a flash-pak built into both biceps, just because it's amusing. Or a high-rating medkit built into your thighs, for medic types (all the tools right at hand, computer accessed mentally). There's all sorts of interesting stuff you could put into limbs rather than carry around if you wanted, it's just a matter of imagining it. And a lot of it has stuff you could control mentally.
neko128
QUOTE (Josh The Stampede)
What sort of device requires external control? Besides implanted commlinks and sensory stuff or smartlinks, I mean.

Well, shortly, anything that needs to be triggered. A Flash-Pak needs external control to operate; so does a firearm (pulling the trigger is external), a grapple gun, shock gloves (activate), explosives (setting fuse methods like contact/airburst/timed for grenades), jammers/white noise generators (on/off)...

A lot of stuff. nyahnyah.gif
Aku
i would advise against having your explosives skinlinked for detonation though....
SL James
Not if you want to make a cool ambush.
evil1i
QUOTE (Lagomorph)
Where would you wear your comlink so that it touches your skin?

Well I would guess that the skinlink mod for a comlink includes either a small induction pad (like a heart rate monitor that you stick to your lower back (or somewhere equally as unobtrusive and comfortable eg a modified/custom shoulder holster and a pad conected in your armpit) or your clothes could have small patches of electro-conductive material in common locations (crotch, waistband, neckline or points of your shoulders) plus interconnected wiring between these points such that if one disconnects from your body others are still connected. There are already Jackets and pants that are able to have iPods, PDAs or other commercial electronics connected in and have the controls run from a pad on the sleeve and speakers attached near the collar. Of course being a consumer world all the manufacturers would have different configurations of pad layouts so your Nike shoes probably don't talk well to your puma socks and your expensive designer jeans by Calvin Kline don't communicate with your budget K-Mart brand budgie smugglers. so you have to buy all one brand (or family of brands - so maybe you buy the Calvin Kline jeans with iNtel iNside :classic: )

Also if you have your clothes Electricallly grounded to protect against lightning or taser or stick-n-shocks then you will be wanting to get any rfid tags in it wiped so that your opponents can't identify the clothes from them and aim for the connection points to bypass your electrical protection (even if they just short out the clothes rather than you your PAN should go down folled closely by you as you get outclassed.
evil1i
QUOTE (Aku)
i would advise against having your explosives skinlinked for detonation though....

QUOTE (SL James)
Not if you want to make a cool ambush.


Blam!

<red sam 1> Um sir I believe we have been ambushed by the worlds most incompetent ambusher!

<red sam officer> Any identification of assailant?

<red sam 1> Well I believe I can scrape some of him off the wall for identification back in the lab sir!

<red sam officer> well scan for the assailants accomplices - they should be easy to find they will be standing around with stupefied looks on their faces and possible also covered with more identification material - then continue with your patrol.

<red sam 1> copy that sir!
SL James
Wow.

That's probably in the top ten of the most idiotic things I've read by someone trying to be clever and failing miserably.
evil1i
QUOTE (SL James)
Wow.

That's probably in the top ten of the most idiotic things I've read by someone trying to be clever and failing miserably.

Thanks - glad you appreciated it biggrin.gif



Can I add yours to the top ten of most idiotic misworded comments?



By that I mean when you say:

QUOTE (SL James)
Not if you want to make a cool ambush.


I'm hoping you meant boobytrap rather than ambush.

QUOTE (dictionary.com)

ambush
n.

  1. The act of lying in wait to attack by surprise.
  2. A sudden attack made from a concealed position.
  3.
        1. Those hiding in order to attack by surprise.
        2. The hiding place used for this.
  4. A hidden peril or trap.

booby trap
n.

  1. An explosive device designed to be triggered when an unsuspecting victim touches or disturbs a seemingly harmless object.
  2. A situation that catches one off guard; a pitfall.


While yes an ambush can be termed "A hidden peril or trap." as indicated, but that is a rare example of the usage of the word and a more common word for this usage is a boobytrap. I was simply illustrating a more common interpretation of your response based on the language you have used.

I really can believe I just wasted so much time on the reply to this? Must be because it is frikin hot here and I'm at work so hot+working=short fuse and retort just had to flow (cathartic I'd say)

sarcastic.gif
Endgame50
QUOTE (Lagomorph @ Feb 13 2006, 12:30 PM)
Yeah, Where would you wear your comlink so that it touches your skin?

p210 "Commlinks come in a dizzying array of shapes...from stylized head sets to faux jewelry...." yes ladies and gents, this ridiculous apparatus can now be part of your bling.
Endgame50
QUOTE (evil1i)

I'm hoping you meant boobytrap rather than ambush.

It's funnier with ambush.

I can just see a guy jumping out from behind a bush with a handful of explosive then spontaneously exploding. As a matter of fact, there's not really any guarantee I won't see a group member do that within the next few sessions.
Ryu
Skinlinking a cybercomlink is mandatory, but what will get linked?

Commlink (internal sim module): Skinlink on (All Implants, gear list)

Eyes: wireless:off, skin-link on (weapon and sensor gear only)
Ears: wireless:off, skin-link on (sensor gear only)
Reflexbooster: wireless:off, skin-link off

In short, you do NOT make your only wireless device the hub of your PAN. Ruleswise, you dont even need a hub. If you want one, use a wireless-disabled datajack.
Endgame50
Hub issue aside, I'm surprised how often the good old DNI is overlooked these days.
Rotbart van Dainig
You don't need skinlink to connect implants - they come with free internal routing.

As a side-note, the EM field of the human body extends a bit, so 'touch' does not necessarily mean bare skin contact - IIRC, the Microsoft Patent and research is going that way.
Ryu
So I do no longer need to skinlink my commlink, as any skinlinked cyberware (ie the eyes) can work as relay station if need be. Routing to the comlink is AOD only, so no active connection to the matrix. Nice!
Shrike30
I have a sudden flashback to Ghost in the Shell...

"Damn it, he stole my eyes! WHERE ARE YOU?" -Bateau, unable to see the hacker five feet in front of him.
Hasaku
QUOTE (neko128)
QUOTE (Josh The Stampede @ Feb 13 2006, 07:22 PM)
What sort of device requires external control? Besides implanted commlinks and sensory stuff or smartlinks, I mean.

Well, shortly, anything that needs to be triggered. A Flash-Pak needs external control to operate; so does a firearm (pulling the trigger is external), a grapple gun, shock gloves (activate), explosives (setting fuse methods like contact/airburst/timed for grenades), jammers/white noise generators (on/off)...

A lot of stuff. nyahnyah.gif

I see no reason you couldn't modify any/all of those for DNI controlled activation. Transmit commands by skinlink from DNI'd commlink, installed servomotors handle mechanical activation of triggers, etc. I'd imagine the very sharpest bleeding edge rifles used in assassinations wouldn't be intended for shoulder firing at all. Mount the weapon on a mechanical tripod, plug in for direct control, aim as easily as you point/click, and fire with a thought. No body movement/trigger pull to disrupt your aim. Electrical ignition keeps moving parts to a minimum.
hobgoblin
while wiring a flashpak for direct detonation via DNI is silly, you could wire it so that you can arm it by DNI and then have the count down to detonation start when you trow, drop or otherwise cut the connection with it.
The Jopp
QUOTE (hobgoblin)
while wiring a flashpak for direct detonation via DNI is silly, you could wire it so that you can arm it by DNI and then have the count down to detonation start when you trow, drop or otherwise cut the connection with it.

A flashpack is not a grenade that you throw (even though it is in the grenade section), its more like a very powerful camera flash that you point in a chosen direction. Having it placed on your chest, pointing towards the enemy and activating it when you are turned towards them is quite useful a wireless connection to it when you have your arms full with loot/weapons/corpses helps a lot.
Aku
QUOTE (Hasaku)
I see no reason you couldn't modify any/all of those for DNI controlled activation.


And this gets back to my original question (on skinlink), it is under accessories, with ELECTRONICS. I dont feel that the writers intended EVERYTHING that's wireless (which is well, pretty much everything) to also be skinlink-able.

Cyberware doesnt need skinlinks, because it's already got DNI, the smartgun system, i'm not so sure of, still, but i'll slide on it, but flahpaks? i just don't think thats in th spirit of the rules.
Oracle
Why not? If it is wireless enabled you can skinlink it...
Aku
QUOTE (p. 318 @ SR4)

Accessories Typically used with commlinks, these accessories are compatible with any electronic device. All are wireless equiped. See also, Vision Enhancers p. 323.
...
Skinlink With skinlink, a device is adapted to send and receive data transmitted through the electrical field on the surface of metahuman skin. Though limited to touch, skinlink communication has the advantage of being protected from signal interception or jamming.


So again, it is under a specific section of the book (electronics), under a specific subsection (accessories) Can you put chemical protection on your commlink? No, because it's an ARMOR mod/accessory.

No where in either of those blocks does it say that anything wireless enabled can be skinlinked. Why you would want to have your skinlink wireless enabled is beyond me, as it's defeating the purpose, but to each his own.
Oracle
QUOTE (Aku)
[QUOTE=p. 318, SR4]
Accessories Typically used with commlinks, these accessories are compatible with any electronic device. All are wireless equiped.


...
Aku
QUOTE (Oracle)
[QUOTE=Aku,Feb 15 2006, 01:52 PM] [QUOTE=p. 318, SR4]
Accessories Typically used with commlinks, these accessories are compatible with any electronic device. All are wireless equiped.

[/QUOTE]
...

and i'm saying, that "electronic device" are those things IN that section. Just because PDA's can do all of the same things as a computer, doesnt mean we "call" them a computer, they're a PDA. Just because you can get video on cellphones, doesnt mean we call them a television.

And just because something is electrical, doesnt mean it counts as an electronic device.
hobgoblin
QUOTE (The Jopp)
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Feb 15 2006, 09:18 AM)
while wiring a flashpak for direct detonation via DNI is silly, you could wire it so that you can arm it by DNI and then have the count down to detonation start when you trow, drop or otherwise cut the connection with it.

A flashpack is not a grenade that you throw (even though it is in the grenade section), its more like a very powerful camera flash that you point in a chosen direction. Having it placed on your chest, pointing towards the enemy and activating it when you are turned towards them is quite useful a wireless connection to it when you have your arms full with loot/weapons/corpses helps a lot.

and what have given you this idea? something in the description that i have missed or something else? i would expect its use to be something similar to a flashbang. throw it into a room disorientate whoever is in there or in other ways create a diversion...
Oracle
A PDA is a computer, no matter what you call it. biggrin.gif At least mine.
hobgoblin
a computer in the strictest definition is a device that can do computations, as in doing math wink.gif

so anything from your calculator to your basement crypto-cluster si a computer...
Oracle
And the Z3, the world's first computer, developed by Konrad Zuse in 1941, was a lot less complex than the average PDA.^^
hobgoblin
hell, the brick of a computer that helped with the first moon landing was less powerfull then most scientific calculators today...
Aku
skirting around the issue, since 2053....
Ryu
A skinlink cant be wireless enabled, as it is just an interface technology for an existing device. On the other hand, any device can be upgraded with a skinlink. Its just a question of resulting functionality.
Hasaku
Indeed. Skinlink is merely a transmission method. If the device is designed to perform I/O with a wireless transmitter, it should be trivial to add/replace with skinlink capability. The change would probably be transparent for most devices, assuming they're sufficiently modular. As long as they can send and receive the data they need, it doesn't matter to the box if it's going out over the air or across your body.

I now invoke GM handwaving to allow you to skinlink any device.

1) Any device capable of wireless communication can be augmented with skinlink.
2) Given the general technology level, any device can be rendered capable of wireless communication.

*SHAZAM* It is done!
Aku
GM handwaving and houseruling is all well and good, but, as the sub-title suggests, i'm examining this on a rules As Written level, and to me, those atleast imply that only those devices blah blah blah.
i'm feeling like a record at this point.
jklst14
QUOTE (hobgoblin)
QUOTE (The Jopp @ Feb 15 2006, 12:42 PM)
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Feb 15 2006, 09:18 AM)
while wiring a flashpak for direct detonation via DNI is silly, you could wire it so that you can arm it by DNI and then have the count down to detonation start when you trow, drop or otherwise cut the connection with it.

A flashpack is not a grenade that you throw (even though it is in the grenade section), its more like a very powerful camera flash that you point in a chosen direction. Having it placed on your chest, pointing towards the enemy and activating it when you are turned towards them is quite useful a wireless connection to it when you have your arms full with loot/weapons/corpses helps a lot.

and what have given you this idea? something in the description that i have missed or something else? i would expect its use to be something similar to a flashbang. throw it into a room disorientate whoever is in there or in other ways create a diversion...

If I recall correctly, the original Street Sam Catalog clearly described and illustrated the Flash Pak as a handheld device.

That's the way I've played it since 1st Edition but looking through my 4th edition book, I can't find anything that confirms that it's hand held, so it's possible that this has changed.
TinkerGnome
QUOTE (jklst14)
If I recall correctly, the original Street Sam Catalog clearly described and illustrated the Flash Pak as a handheld device.

It doesn't say either way, really.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Dumpshock Forums © 2001-2012