So I'm cruising through wikipedia, my original inquiry was on pistols that fire rifle-caliber type rounds, wasn't having too much success with that, as I couldn't figure out a good way to narrow my fields down. So I'm looking through links, heading to the listings for .454 casull, .500 rounds, etc. Since I'm still rather clueless on firearms, it wasn't making much sense to me, though I was getting 'bigger boom' for bigger calibers.

Course then I head over to Trigun listing, since I'm looking at revolvers, and it points me in the direction of a mateba autorevolver, which I also find out is used by Togusa on ghost in the shell too. Anyway, I google it, find a niiiiice looking pic of one, and decided that needs to be my next runner gun. I'm thinking, not so different from the superwarhawk? So the revolver dmg, but instead of SS its SA?

The reason I'm posting, beyond just that honeymoon glow of finding a new cool item, was I was wondering what some of our more knowledgeable DS posters could tell me about personal experience with the weapon, if any. Good gun? Better off using a regular SA gun?

I also had some secondary questions:

Can you use caseless rounds in a revolver?

I realize there isn't a cannon companion type book for sr4 out yet, but what would be a reasonable ammo stat for resizing something like a mateba for a .500 s&w? 5 round capacity, but what sorta dmg/etc stats? (from what I gather the mateba wasn't sized for it on its own, but I figure, what the hell)

On the second question:

Since the original revolvers where "Cap&Ball" (Loose Powder and a primer cap) I see no problems building a wheelgun using caseless ammo. I only doubt you will get many of the benefits of caseless.

I'd probably give it a 9M damage code with SA firing rate, but I fully admit to being no expert.

Edit: heavier ammunition was specified, never mind. I based this guess on a Mateba and its standard calibers.

~J

Semiautomatic revolvers are a novelty really. They don't provide a significant advantage over a standard double-action revolver.

As for the firing mode, I never understood why the Warhawk was SS in the first place. There are DAO semiautomatics with heavier and longer trigger pulls than some double action revolvers so the only thing that makes the slightest bit of sense is that the Warhawk is SAO, which doesn't make too much sense.

The Warhawk's fireing mode is a game balance issue rather than a mechanics issue. There are three revolvers in the canon companion with a SA firing mode but none of them have a damage code as high as 10M. The slowing rate of fire is the price one pays for higher damage. This also makes little sense due to the fact that one can easily make a 10M SA/BF pistol using the CC rules.

Like hyzmarca says, the Single Shot rate of fire can only reasonably be explained with it being a single action revolver -- that is, it works like in cowboy movies, you have to manually cock the hammer before every shot. The trigger pull only releases the hammer, hence "single action".

The reason why even that doesn't make much sense is that single action revolvers are largely extinct, other than for something called cowboy action shooting. Just about all modern revolvers are double action, where depressing the trigger both cocks the hammer and releases it. You can fire a double action revolver plenty fast.

Eh, maybe the Ruger Super Warhawk was marketed towards runners desiring a "cowboy" feel.

The character I'm playing right now carries one (I based him off Malcolm Reynolds from "Firefly," so I figured it fit him well, even though his main weapon is a Savalette Guardian)

The Warhawk sorta compensates for the lower firing rate with that 10M damage code. Not a big jump, but still, it's something.

...better jump in SR4 since the Warhawk is rated at 6P (-2 AP).

With a decent pool (say 14 d) it is not inconceivable to push the DV to 9-10P which is pretty hefty damage. Even if it does not penetrate, the target still has to shake off a lot of stun

Add EX and DV starts at 8P with I beleive another -1 to the AP.

Gel rounds really rock with this weapon. Starting DV is 8S with -2 Str for knockdown. Now take those 3 - 4 hits and the target is resisting more stun than most characters (save for trolls) have on their Stun condition track along with almost automatically getting bowled over (unless again, they are a troll).

Yeah the fire rate and ammo cap. leaves something to be desired which is why I have KK4.1 use one in each hand (w/ambidexterity) ala Doc Holladay style. Most of the time it is just to shoot once per action (giving her 12 shots before reloading) but even with splitting her pool, she still has a pretty good chance to get a couple hits, still knock her opponent down and make them suffer modifiers on their actions.

I would imagine, given that revolvers are constructed with gaps at either end of the cylinder to allow for rotation (the source of cylinder flash), that you might actually run into problems when using caseless ammunition that could be quite disastrous. Say, cylinder flash from the rear of the cylinder igniting a round in a chamber that's not even lined up with the barrel...

I was thinking that you'd pretty much have to seal the breech side of the cylinder and load the caseless cartridges from the front end, igniting them electronically. Pretty wierd, but I don't see why it couldn't work that way. Of course, I don't see why anyone would want to do it that way, either. Might be a good way to blow off your hand.

Yeah, I personally have issues with the concept of putting my hand in front of slugs that I'm loading into a hot cylinder.

Eh. My comment reguarding the Super warhawk has always been that its the true 'big iron' of the pistols. .50 AE, .454 Cat, Redhalk .480 .500 S&W. As compaired to something like the Pred (which in my mind has always been a .45 colt clone).

Yeah, I think once you got past the front load, I wouldent call it too odd. IIRC the caseless ammo is electrically primed, so once you get it in... but then you loose the hammer effect... Meh.

I really get stressed out when I realize I can't figure out whether my HP is firing 10mm or .45 ACP.

Of course you'd still put the hammer in. If you don't, what's the point? It may be purely ornamental, but it is going to be there.

Or heads will roll.

~J

Thanks for all the replies. I think for SR4 I'll go with the idea of mateba just cloning the super warhawk stats, with the default 6 shot cylinder. Have to admit those S&W x types look rather nice as well, but there's something about the mateba's barrel aligned with the lower part of the cylinder that appeals to me visually.

I did have another question. Is the HK G38 in the cannon companion likely the SR 'advanced' version of the HK g36 or the HK g36/7 (using Raygun's site for the listings)? I know SR 4 uses the HK xm30, but I think the weapon looks a little silly and plasticky to me. Even some of the extrenal sites on wikipedia that I used to check on the xm30 didn't sell me much on its look.

Also I do apologize for my focus on the 'look' of a gun, its just that I figure since SR pretty much lumps up everything, gives everything in the same class relatively the same stats, that I may as well go with the one I think my char would look more intimidating carrying. And for some reason the Ares stuff doesn't do it for me. I don't like the Alpha or the revamps of the predator too much, tho I kinda liked the look of the predator 3.

Well, I try...

Darn, raygun beat me to the Webley-Fosbery, automatic revolvers are cute as collectors items but not really usable as weapons. I mean sure point and shoot but the extra bells and whistles are too expensive for a comperable non-revolver.

As for single and double action- my S&W .357 is a double action but I shoot straighter if I treat it like a single action, mannually cocking it for each shot. It takes only a momment, and the differnece is the pull needed for the double action pulls me a little off center.

I've had a similar experience with a .38 webley.

A semi-auto like a baretta is already cocked after the first shot so it doesn't have that problem.

It's a silly idea, but...

Would it be physically be possible to mod a Mateba type autorevolver to fire two-round bursts?


-karma

I don't see why not.

Hmm. A full-auto caseless revolver. Well past "silly" and approaching "regoddamndiculous" at speeds heretofore unknown to man.

AE- the S&W is wonderfully accurate, especially loaded with 38 specials. I don't want to mess with that for a little lighter trigger.

For personal defense, yes I have a permitt, I usually carry a .380 Baretta Cheetah or .25 Baretta bobcat (I'm small It's the only thing I can wear with a business suit) With each of those I can mannually cock it but after the first round, the action cocks it without me having to do it again or a DA pressure. The first shot takes a little more pull, after that it's fine

Even cut the food she's cooking? I guess she just shoots it into bits?

guns are helpful household tools. i use mine in place of a remote for the TV.

Tragically, it only has an "off" button.

i don't find that tragic in the least.

I'm sure your brain appreciates that.

There was once a Western called The Rifleman which featured a lever-action Winchester rifle which was modified to fire as soon as it was cocked, eliminating the need to operate the trigger.

This may explain the SA pump action shotguns. At the very least, it provides a justification for modifying SS weapons into SA and looks downright cool on screen.

Pitchforks! The most useful household tool is a Pitchfork!

+ You can use it to clean up the stable
+ You can use it to clean up the bachlor appartment
+ It make a good "Religious fanatic repellant"

Definitly a must have

lol, and the boche, who introduced poison gas ot the battle field, made formal complaints to geneva about that weapon.

This thread has made me think. Why would you want an auto-fire revolver? The idea of a revolver is more reliable but slower. autofire would take care of the 'reliable' issue but all that will do it empty the gun faster. Ultimately this was historically proven to be an unacceptable situation. That's why semi-auto's are the norm now.

So we're back to where this started. A revolver gives a level of style or if you are not too technical reliability but for most gun folks, semi-auto's would be the weay to go.

Personally, although I love my S&W, it is the only fire arm that has ever caused me grief. (though that was not the gun itself but crappy Winchster rounds that the brass warped in the chamber making extraxtion a bitch.)

Basically I was thinking autorevolver because, to me, it looked cool. Something about the alignment of the barrel to the bottom of the cylinder was kinda cool. I start thinking 'vash the stampede'. Although I don't believe his gun was actually an autorevolver. (Fusion cannon!)

Aren't revolvers also less likely to jam? Wouldn't that be a selling point for them?

Yes, it is.

On a psychological kinda side of things, would you be more afraid (in the SR world I mean, since I'd be scared outta my ass if I had even a fricking hold out pistol pointed at me) of the gunbunny who's doing the john woo doublefisted SA pistol action or the guy who gets the same job done, carting around a 6 shooter? A six shooter he could probably beat you to death with if unloaded.

Maybe its just me, but through my experience in SR, my chars tend to go "why is that guy only carrying one gun?" and spend a little more time worrying about what his stats looks like, than another gunbunny clone

Do autorevolvers have a jamming problem too?