Voran
Apr 18 2006, 07:30 AM
So I'm cruising through wikipedia, my original inquiry was on pistols that fire rifle-caliber type rounds, wasn't having too much success with that, as I couldn't figure out a good way to narrow my fields down. So I'm looking through links, heading to the listings for .454 casull, .500 rounds, etc. Since I'm still rather clueless on firearms, it wasn't making much sense to me, though I was getting 'bigger boom' for bigger calibers.
Course then I head over to Trigun listing, since I'm looking at revolvers, and it points me in the direction of a mateba autorevolver, which I also find out is used by Togusa on ghost in the shell too. Anyway, I google it, find a niiiiice looking pic of one, and decided that needs to be my next runner gun. I'm thinking, not so different from the superwarhawk? So the revolver dmg, but instead of SS its SA?
The reason I'm posting, beyond just that honeymoon glow of finding a new cool item, was I was wondering what some of our more knowledgeable DS posters could tell me about personal experience with the weapon, if any. Good gun? Better off using a regular SA gun?
I also had some secondary questions:
Can you use caseless rounds in a revolver?
I realize there isn't a cannon companion type book for sr4 out yet, but what would be a reasonable ammo stat for resizing something like a mateba for a .500 s&w? 5 round capacity, but what sorta dmg/etc stats? (from what I gather the mateba wasn't sized for it on its own, but I figure, what the hell)
Birdy
Apr 18 2006, 07:50 AM
On the second question:
Since the original revolvers where "Cap&Ball" (Loose Powder and a primer cap) I see no problems building a wheelgun using caseless ammo. I only doubt you will get many of the benefits of caseless.
Kagetenshi
Apr 18 2006, 08:48 AM
I'd probably give it a 9M damage code with SA firing rate, but I fully admit to being no expert.
Edit: heavier ammunition was specified, never mind. I based this guess on a Mateba and its standard calibers.
~J
hyzmarca
Apr 18 2006, 09:36 AM
Semiautomatic revolvers are a novelty really. They don't provide a significant advantage over a standard double-action revolver.
As for the firing mode, I never understood why the Warhawk was SS in the first place. There are DAO semiautomatics with heavier and longer trigger pulls than some double action revolvers so the only thing that makes the slightest bit of sense is that the Warhawk is SAO, which doesn't make too much sense.
The Warhawk's fireing mode is a game balance issue rather than a mechanics issue. There are three revolvers in the canon companion with a SA firing mode but none of them have a damage code as high as 10M. The slowing rate of fire is the price one pays for higher damage. This also makes little sense due to the fact that one can easily make a 10M SA/BF pistol using the CC rules.
Austere Emancipator
Apr 18 2006, 10:13 AM
Like hyzmarca says, the Single Shot rate of fire can only reasonably be explained with it being a single action revolver -- that is, it works like in cowboy movies, you have to manually cock the hammer before every shot. The trigger pull only releases the hammer, hence "single action".
The reason why even that doesn't make much sense is that single action revolvers are largely extinct, other than for something called
cowboy action shooting. Just about all modern revolvers are double action, where depressing the trigger both cocks the hammer and releases it. You can fire a double action revolver
plenty fast.
QUOTE (Voran) |
[...] but what would be a reasonable ammo stat for resizing something like a mateba for a .500 s&w? 5 round capacity, but what sorta dmg/etc stats? |
If only you used SR3... Then you could just check Raygun's site and
*BOOM*. In SR4, if you aren't using any other house rules for firearms, such a gun would do the exact same damage as any other Heavy Pistol, or else it would do the damage of a Super Warhawk with the same limitation to RoF.
HMHVV Hunter
Apr 18 2006, 07:07 PM
Eh, maybe the Ruger Super Warhawk was marketed towards runners desiring a "cowboy" feel.
The character I'm playing right now carries one (I based him off Malcolm Reynolds from "Firefly," so I figured it fit him well, even though his main weapon is a Savalette Guardian)
The Warhawk sorta compensates for the lower firing rate with that 10M damage code. Not a big jump, but still, it's something.
Kyoto Kid
Apr 18 2006, 09:59 PM
...better jump in SR4 since the Warhawk is rated at 6P (-2 AP).
With a decent pool (say 14 d) it is not inconceivable to push the DV to 9-10P which is pretty hefty damage. Even if it does not penetrate, the target still has to shake off a lot of stun
Add EX and DV starts at 8P with I beleive another -1 to the AP.
Gel rounds really rock with this weapon. Starting DV is 8S with -2 Str for knockdown. Now take those 3 - 4 hits and the target is resisting more stun than most characters (save for trolls) have on their Stun condition track along with almost automatically getting bowled over (unless again, they are a troll).
Yeah the fire rate and ammo cap. leaves something to be desired which is why I have KK4.1 use one in each hand (w/ambidexterity) ala Doc Holladay style. Most of the time it is just to shoot once per action (giving her 12 shots before reloading) but even with splitting her pool, she still has a pretty good chance to get a couple hits, still knock her opponent down and make them suffer modifiers on their actions.
Raygun
Apr 18 2006, 10:04 PM
QUOTE (Voran) |
The reason I'm posting, beyond just that honeymoon glow of finding a new cool item, was I was wondering what some of our more knowledgeable DS posters could tell me about personal experience with the weapon, if any. Good gun? Better off using a regular SA gun? |
The closest I've personally been able to get to a Mateba was about a foot, staring at one through a glass case at a gun show. They're nifty-looking guns, and have that novelty of an auto revolver (like the Webley-Fosbery; one of those I've actually held), but it really is just that. A novelty. As has already been said, the Mateba really doesn't accomplish anything that other, cheaper, more readily available revolvers can't accomplish. But it sure does look neat.
QUOTE |
I also had some secondary questions:
Can you use caseless rounds in a revolver? |
Birdy is correct in that cap & ball revolvers didn't use a cartridge case and were thus caseless. But even so, there's a big difference between that and a caseless cartridge (namely how the firearm is loaded). It probably could be accomplished one way or another, but I can't think of any way that it would be beneficial to the user to use caseless ammunition in a revolver. Basically, it would be yet another mostly impractical novelty.
As the case itself is what performs the all-important act of sealing the breech, and each breech in the cylinder needs to be easily accessible for reloading the firearm, cased cartridges are especially useful when it comes to rapidly reloading a revolver (through the use of moon clips or speedloaders).
QUOTE |
I realize there isn't a cannon companion type book for sr4 out yet, but what would be a reasonable ammo stat for resizing something like a mateba for a .500 s&w? 5 round capacity, but what sorta dmg/etc stats? (from what I gather the mateba wasn't sized for it on its own, but I figure, what the hell) |
If you're still playing SR3, I would suggest using the stats for the S&W X-Frame revolvers from my site that Aus already posted a link to (an auto revolver should offer no better stats), but jack the weight up about 10% and price up about 40%. Any advantage you would gain from the revolver cocking itself would be lost several times over due to the sheer amount of recoil that has to be dealt with when using a cartridge so powerful.
Shrike30
Apr 18 2006, 10:31 PM
I would imagine, given that revolvers are constructed with gaps at either end of the cylinder to allow for rotation (the source of cylinder flash), that you might actually run into problems when using caseless ammunition that could be quite disastrous. Say, cylinder flash from the rear of the cylinder igniting a round in a chamber that's not even lined up with the barrel...
Raygun
Apr 18 2006, 11:09 PM
I was thinking that you'd pretty much have to seal the breech side of the cylinder and load the caseless cartridges from the front end, igniting them electronically. Pretty wierd, but I don't see why it couldn't work that way. Of course, I don't see why anyone would want to do it that way, either. Might be a good way to blow off your hand.
Shrike30
Apr 18 2006, 11:20 PM
Yeah, I personally have issues with the concept of putting my hand in front of slugs that I'm loading into a hot cylinder.
Lindt
Apr 19 2006, 12:09 AM
Eh. My comment reguarding the Super warhawk has always been that its the true 'big iron' of the pistols. .50 AE, .454 Cat, Redhalk .480 .500 S&W. As compaired to something like the Pred (which in my mind has always been a .45 colt clone).
Yeah, I think once you got past the front load, I wouldent call it too odd. IIRC the caseless ammo is electrically primed, so once you get it in... but then you loose the hammer effect... Meh.
Raygun
Apr 19 2006, 12:25 AM
QUOTE (Shrike30 @ Apr 18 2006, 11:20 PM) |
Yeah, I personally have issues with the concept of putting my hand in front of slugs that I'm loading into a hot cylinder. |
I don't think the heat would be that big of an issue in a revolver. Anyways, front-end loading worked fairly well for the much greater part of the history of firearms. That said, given the choice, I'd rather not put my hand in front of the cartridge. It's the statistically insignificant occasional mishap I'd be thinking about while doing it.
QUOTE |
Yeah, I think once you got past the front load, I wouldent call it too odd. IIRC the caseless ammo is electrically primed, so once you get it in... but then you loose the hammer effect... Meh. |
Yeah. No need for a hammer with electronic priming.
Wounded Ronin
Apr 19 2006, 02:00 AM
I really get stressed out when I realize I can't figure out whether my HP is firing 10mm or .45 ACP.
Kagetenshi
Apr 19 2006, 02:03 AM
Of course you'd still put the hammer in. If you don't, what's the point? It may be purely ornamental, but it is going to be there.
Or heads will roll.
~J
Shrapnel
Apr 19 2006, 02:12 AM
QUOTE (Austere Emancipator) |
Like hyzmarca says, the Single Shot rate of fire can only reasonably be explained with it being a single action revolver -- that is, it works like in cowboy movies, you have to manually cock the hammer before every shot. The trigger pull only releases the hammer, hence "single action".
The reason why even that doesn't make much sense is that single action revolvers are largely extinct, other than for something called cowboy action shooting. Just about all modern revolvers are double action, where depressing the trigger both cocks the hammer and releases it. You can fire a double action revolver plenty fast.
QUOTE (Voran) | [...] but what would be a reasonable ammo stat for resizing something like a mateba for a .500 s&w? 5 round capacity, but what sorta dmg/etc stats? |
If only you used SR3... Then you could just check Raygun's site and *BOOM*. In SR4, if you aren't using any other house rules for firearms, such a gun would do the exact same damage as any other Heavy Pistol, or else it would do the damage of a Super Warhawk with the same limitation to RoF. |
That really depends on whether the Super Warhawk was based on the
Ruger Super Blackhawk, which is single action (and nowhere near being extinct), or the
Ruger Super Redhawk, which is double action.
Personally, I've allowed both. It's just a matter of personal preference, and price.
Voran
Apr 19 2006, 02:28 AM
Thanks for all the replies. I think for SR4 I'll go with the idea of mateba just cloning the super warhawk stats, with the default 6 shot cylinder. Have to admit those S&W x types look rather nice as well, but there's something about the mateba's barrel aligned with the lower part of the cylinder that appeals to me visually.
I did have another question. Is the HK G38 in the cannon companion likely the SR 'advanced' version of the HK g36 or the HK g36/7 (using Raygun's site for the listings)? I know SR 4 uses the HK xm30, but I think the weapon looks a little silly and plasticky to me. Even some of the extrenal sites on wikipedia that I used to check on the xm30 didn't sell me much on its look.
Also
I do apologize for my focus on the 'look' of a gun, its just that I figure since SR pretty much lumps up everything, gives everything in the same class relatively the same stats, that I may as well go with the one I think my char would look more intimidating carrying. And for some reason the Ares stuff doesn't do it for me. I don't like the Alpha or the revamps of the predator too much, tho I kinda liked the look of the predator 3.
Raygun
Apr 19 2006, 02:42 AM
QUOTE (Voran) |
I did have another question. Is the HK G38 in the cannon companion likely the SR 'advanced' version of the HK g36 or the HK g36/7 (using Raygun's site for the listings)? |
Yeah. From what I understand the G38 is another SR attempt at a modular rifle platform based on a real rifle (like the Steyr AUG-CSL). Being that the G36 is modular like that in reality, it's definitely the inspiration for the G38. I assume the XM30 is supposed to be based on the idea of the XM8, which was itself a very slightly modified G36 (different plastic furniture, better optics; now defunct).
The G36/7 on my site is a fictional 7.62x51mm version of the G36.
Voran
Apr 19 2006, 03:11 AM
QUOTE (Raygun) |
The G36/7 on my site is a fictional 7.62x51mm version of the G36. |
Woops. Heh the site is so well done I have a hard time telling at first glance which stuff is based on real stuff and which stuff is based on nearly-real stuff
Raygun
Apr 19 2006, 03:14 AM
Well, I try...
Kyoto Kid
Apr 19 2006, 03:47 AM
QUOTE (Shrapnel) |
That really depends on whether the Super Warhawk was based on the Ruger Super Blackhawk, which is single action (and nowhere near being extinct), or the Ruger Super Redhawk, which is double action.
Personally, I've allowed both. It's just a matter of personal preference, and price. |
Thanks for the links
Downloaded images of both the Super Blackhawk S-411N and Super Redhawk KSRH-9.
Gives me a pretty good reference for what my character KK 4.1 is packing.
For sheer looks I prefer the Blackhawk (always was one for the classical look & that 10.5 in barrel has a definite intimidation factor). For performance & speed however - especially firing 2 weapons in alternating fashion or at the same time - double action would make more sense.
Snow_Fox
Apr 19 2006, 10:37 PM
Darn, raygun beat me to the Webley-Fosbery, automatic revolvers are cute as collectors items but not really usable as weapons. I mean sure point and shoot but the extra bells and whistles are too expensive for a comperable non-revolver.
As for single and double action- my S&W .357 is a double action but I shoot straighter if I treat it like a single action, mannually cocking it for each shot. It takes only a momment, and the differnece is the pull needed for the double action pulls me a little off center.
I've had a similar experience with a .38 webley.
A semi-auto like a baretta is already cocked after the first shot so it doesn't have that problem.
Austere Emancipator
Apr 19 2006, 11:03 PM
QUOTE (Snow_Fox) |
A semi-auto like a baretta is already cocked after the first shot so it doesn't have that problem. |
That's true for single-action and DA/SA pistols, but with double-action only pistols (like a Beretta 92D/DS), and oddities like the Glock "safe action", the trigger pull still cocks the hammer or striker on subsequent shots.
Of course, you can get a double action trigger that's light enough to remove the accuracy problem.
QUOTE (Kyoto Kid) |
For sheer looks I prefer the Blackhawk [...]. For performance & speed however [...] double action would make more sense. |
Hence why sane people pick a DA revolver for defense, and why SA revolvers are curiosities -- and almost exclusively US curiosities.
KarmaInferno
Apr 20 2006, 01:20 AM
It's a silly idea, but...
Would it be physically be possible to mod a Mateba type autorevolver to fire two-round bursts?
-karma
Raygun
Apr 20 2006, 01:33 AM
I don't see why not.
Hmm. A full-auto caseless revolver. Well past "silly" and approaching "regoddamndiculous" at speeds heretofore unknown to man.
Snow_Fox
Apr 20 2006, 02:54 AM
AE- the S&W is wonderfully accurate, especially loaded with 38 specials. I don't want to mess with that for a little lighter trigger.
For personal defense, yes I have a permitt, I usually carry a .380 Baretta Cheetah or .25 Baretta bobcat (I'm small It's the only thing I can wear with a business suit) With each of those I can mannually cock it but after the first round, the action cocks it without me having to do it again or a DA pressure. The first shot takes a little more pull, after that it's fine
De Badd Ass
Apr 20 2006, 03:07 AM
QUOTE (Raygun) |
That said, given the choice, I'd rather not put my hand in front of the cartridge. It's the statistically insignificant occasional mishap I'd be thinking about while doing it. |
What you call "the statistically insignificant occasional mishap" is what Shadowrun rules call a "glitch". Those
never happen on a reloading test.
Lindt
Apr 20 2006, 04:09 AM
QUOTE (Raygun) |
Hmm. A full-auto caseless revolver. Well past "silly" and approaching "regoddamndiculous" at speeds heretofore unknown to man. |
Wow, now you have to deal with both recoil AND torque effects. Pulls up and hard to the left.
Snow, you are one of the reasons I would never be able to mug someone. Cause you never know when that person is skilled in a small arsonal of weapons, and can break your arm in 3 places, all while wearing heels.
Raygun
Apr 20 2006, 04:19 AM
QUOTE (De Badd Ass) |
What you call "the statistically insignificant occasional mishap" is what Shadowrun rules call a "glitch". Those never happen on a reloading test. |
This is why you must Know Your GM. Only a particular kind of sadistic bastard would have you blow your own hand off, as opposed to dropping the ammo or some other minor difficulty.
KarmaInferno
Apr 20 2006, 02:51 PM
QUOTE (Raygun) |
I don't see why not.
Hmm. A full-auto caseless revolver. Well past "silly" and approaching "regoddamndiculous" at speeds heretofore unknown to man. |
Hm. Well, not caseless, but now that I think about it, isn't this basically how the Pancor Jackhammer works? Recoil-operated revolving cylinder?
-karma
Daddy's Little Ninja
Apr 20 2006, 04:25 PM
QUOTE (Lindt) |
QUOTE (Raygun @ Apr 19 2006, 09:33 PM) | Hmm. A full-auto caseless revolver. Well past "silly" and approaching "regoddamndiculous" at speeds heretofore unknown to man. |
Wow, now you have to deal with both recoil AND torque effects. Pulls up and hard to the left.
Snow, you are one of the reasons I would never be able to mug someone. Cause you never know when that person is skilled in a small arsonal of weapons, and can break your arm in 3 places, all while wearing heels.
|
She is also a great cook. But I do not think she does anything with knives.
James McMurray
Apr 20 2006, 06:57 PM
Even cut the food she's cooking? I guess she just shoots it into bits?
mfb
Apr 20 2006, 07:01 PM
guns are helpful household tools. i use mine in place of a remote for the TV.
Moon-Hawk
Apr 20 2006, 07:01 PM
Tragically, it only has an "off" button.
mfb
Apr 20 2006, 07:28 PM
i don't find that tragic in the least.
Moon-Hawk
Apr 20 2006, 07:36 PM
I'm sure your brain appreciates that.
Raygun
Apr 20 2006, 07:45 PM
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Apr 20 2006, 02:51 PM) |
Hm. Well, not caseless, but now that I think about it, isn't this basically how the Pancor Jackhammer works? Recoil-operated revolving cylinder? |
Well, insofar as both would operate full auto and fire from a rotating cylinder, they're basically similar, but that's about it. The method of operation is drastically different.
The Jackhammer is actually gas-operated, with the barrel itself acting as a forward-travelling piston which pulls an operating rod with it when fired. The operating rod cocks the striker as well as indexes and locks the magazine in place.
In the Mateba, the upper half of the revolver (barrel, cylinder) simply recoils rearward when a shot is fired, pushing the hammer, which is part of the lower assembly, rearward and so cocking it again. When the upper half returns forward, the cylinder is rotated, indexing the next chamber.
hyzmarca
Apr 20 2006, 08:42 PM
There was once a Western called The Rifleman which featured a lever-action Winchester rifle which was modified to fire as soon as it was cocked, eliminating the need to operate the trigger.
This may explain the SA pump action shotguns. At the very least, it provides a justification for modifying SS weapons into SA and looks downright cool on screen.
Daddy's Little Ninja
Apr 20 2006, 08:48 PM
QUOTE (James McMurray) |
Even cut the food she's cooking? I guess she just shoots it into bits? |
I meant she never refers to knives as weapons. Though if po'ed in her kitchen, she has been known to through produce at the offender until they retreat.
Birdy
Apr 21 2006, 10:38 AM
Pitchforks! The most useful household tool is a Pitchfork!
+ You can use it to clean up the stable
+ You can use it to clean up the bachlor appartment
+ It make a good "Religious fanatic repellant"
Definitly a must have
Snow_Fox
Apr 22 2006, 03:07 AM
QUOTE (hyzmarca) |
There was once a Western called The Rifleman which featured a lever-action Winchester rifle which was modified to fire as soon as it was cock, then eliminating the need to operate the trigger.
This may explain the SA pump action shotguns. At the very least, it provides a justification for modifying SS weapons into SA and looks downright cool on screen. |
That was with chuck Conners and it was a neat actuion. he would just work the pump and it went off. but he realy fired from the shoulder so I'd say accuracy was way the hell off.
For bolt actions don't underestimate real speed. In 1914 British infantry were required at a mimimum to fire 15 bulls eyes in 1 minute. Firing a .303 SMLE-a bolt action rifle with a 10 round mag. Most were able to fire in exess of that and some were nearly 30 shots. it was called the "mad minute," speed and accuracy, not ust volume. At mons in august 1914 German forces that went head on at these men were stopped cold, survivors reporting they faced massed machine guns, so fast and deadly was the fire form the British lines they couldn't believe it was aimed rifle fire.
Raygun
Apr 22 2006, 05:57 AM
QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Apr 20 2006, 08:42 PM) |
There was once a Western called The Rifleman which featured a lever-action Winchester rifle which was modified to fire as soon as it was cock, then eliminating the need to operate the trigger. |
Well, sort of. The trigger still had to be operated. The rifle on The Rifleman was a Winchester 1892, modified with that distinctive large loop lever. The lever itself had
a screw extending through the bottom of the trigger guard so that when the lever was brought fully up and the bolt locked into battery, the screw would hit the trigger, firing the rifle. The screw could be removed, allowing the rifle to operate normally. I understand what you mean, though. As long as the screw was there, all the shooter had to do was swing the lever down and back up again to get a bang.
I've thought about buying another lever for my Winchester 94 to see if I could make that work (heh,
sweet), but I have so far been unsuccessful in convincing myself to follow through with that. Besides, 30-30 Win is a different beast from 30-20 WCF. Probably would not be much fun to shoot that way. I have an 1892 as well, but I'm not about to mess with it as it's worth a few bucks (thanks to The Rifleman and Cowboy Action shooting).
QUOTE |
This may explain the SA pump action shotguns. At the very least, it provides a justification for modifying SS weapons into SA and looks downright cool on screen. |
Obviously, you couldn't accomplish the same thing with a pump action unless you went about it much differently. While modern pump action shotguns are designed specifically to prevent this kind of thing from happening (for safety reasons), some older designs, specifically the Winchester 97, will fire every time the action is racked, so long as you hold down the trigger and have the ammo.
Oddly enough, the Winchester 97 is still made in China by Norinco. In fact, they make a right awesome copy of the
WWI-era "trench broom". Slap a 1917 Enfield bayonet on there and the boche will run in sheer terror (thought you might like that one, Snow_Fox).
Snow_Fox
Apr 23 2006, 02:53 PM
lol, and the boche, who introduced poison gas ot the battle field, made formal complaints to geneva about that weapon.
This thread has made me think. Why would you want an auto-fire revolver? The idea of a revolver is more reliable but slower. autofire would take care of the 'reliable' issue but all that will do it empty the gun faster. Ultimately this was historically proven to be an unacceptable situation. That's why semi-auto's are the norm now.
So we're back to where this started. A revolver gives a level of style or if you are not too technical reliability but for most gun folks, semi-auto's would be the weay to go.
Personally, although I love my S&W, it is the only fire arm that has ever caused me grief. (though that was not the gun itself but crappy Winchster rounds that the brass warped in the chamber making extraxtion a bitch.)
Voran
Apr 23 2006, 03:34 PM
Basically I was thinking autorevolver because, to me, it looked cool. Something about the alignment of the barrel to the bottom of the cylinder was kinda cool. I start thinking 'vash the stampede'. Although I don't believe his gun was actually an autorevolver. (Fusion cannon!)
Raygun
Apr 23 2006, 03:51 PM
QUOTE (Snow_Fox) |
This thread has made me think. Why would you want an auto-fire revolver? |
Because it's unusual, thus cool. And that's pretty much as far as it goes. Fashion over function.
QUOTE |
The idea of a revolver is more reliable but slower. |
Which, as we've seen with the ever-popular Miculek video, is not necessarily the case. Double action revolvers can be operated on par with semi-autos as far as speed is concerned, and are certainly fast enough as far as practical applications go. In fact, there's very little difference between how DA revolvers and DAO autos operate in terms of speed, and there's only a slight advantage with DA/SA autos. Once again, it depends largely on the skill of the shooter.
QUOTE |
autofire would take care of the 'reliable' issue but all that will do it empty the gun faster. |
Especially since the revolver is likely to carry less than half the amount of ammunition that a comparably-sized auto will.
QUOTE |
So we're back to where this started. A revolver gives a level of style or if you are not too technical reliability but for most gun folks, semi-auto's would be the weay to go. |
Yep.
HMHVV Hunter
Apr 23 2006, 07:29 PM
Aren't revolvers also less likely to jam? Wouldn't that be a selling point for them?
Raygun
Apr 24 2006, 06:31 AM
Yes, it is.
Voran
Apr 24 2006, 08:08 AM
On a psychological kinda side of things, would you be more afraid (in the SR world I mean, since I'd be scared outta my ass if I had even a fricking hold out pistol pointed at me) of the gunbunny who's doing the john woo doublefisted SA pistol action or the guy who gets the same job done, carting around a 6 shooter? A six shooter he could probably beat you to death with if unloaded.
Maybe its just me, but through my experience in SR, my chars tend to go "why is that guy only carrying one gun?" and spend a little more time worrying about what his stats looks like, than another gunbunny clone
De Badd Ass
Apr 24 2006, 08:14 AM
QUOTE (HMHVV Hunter) |
Aren't revolvers also less likely to jam? Wouldn't that be a selling point for them? |
Exactly! So why negate that selling point by designing an auto-revolver. So you can have some bling that jams?
Voran
Apr 24 2006, 08:15 AM
Do autorevolvers have a jamming problem too?