Ok, according pg 114 SR3, I get to up the damage code for every two successes.
My question is this: Is that taking into account the one success it takes to initially hit? If so it seems a little out of balance.
From the book...
Heavy Pistol - 9M
1 Success - M
2 Successes - S
3 Successes - N/A
4 Successes - D
In essence, it stages on 1-2-4-6, etc.
Too me that seems to early for the first stage up.
I have been running it like this...
Heavy Pistol - 9M
1 Success - M
2 Successes - N/A
3 Successes - S
4 Successes - N/A
5 Successes - D
Staging on 1-3-5-7-9, etc. seems a little more balanced to me.
Like I said in my other thread, am I missing something?
Full Version: Staging
its 2 per damage level, including the 1 to hit, so 2 successes with heavy pistol = 9s, 4 = 9d, 6 =11d (i think thats the way sr3 handles going past deadly, you add to power)
| QUOTE |
| (i think thats the way sr3 handles going past deadly, you add to power) |
No. As I understand it, it gives a single box of over flow for each stage past dead. Under the standard rules, you can take your Body Rating in overflow boxes. You then lose a box every (Body Rating in Turns).
| QUOTE |
| QUOTE (i think thats the way sr3 handles going past deadly, you add to power) No. As I understand it, it gives a single box of over flow for each stage past dead. Under the standard rules, you can take your Body Rating in overflow boxes. You then lose a box every (Body Rating in Turns). |
What he meens is that you now have to test against an 11d. You will role your combat pool and then body to see what wound you take. Your TN is 11. If you get no successes then you take a deadly wound.
Thanos
How is it 11D? Nothing in SR3 states that it goes up if you overflow.
It should only be a rating 9 I have to stage against, minus my armor rating. Granted, I have to stage down a bunch of levels.
It should only be a rating 9 I have to stage against, minus my armor rating. Granted, I have to stage down a bunch of levels.
dont have the books with me, but i seem to remember that that was one of the things that changed with the move to version 3. This is how spells work i know, as far as drain anyway. Cant say i am 100% sure about normal resistance/codes though.
can someone who has the books check it out?
can someone who has the books check it out?
Slamm, you are slightly incorrect about Awakened characters. The only note I can find is on pg. 191 SR3 and it notes that Power is raised instead of Damage Code by +2 for Drain Level. Nothing is said about the damage your opponent takes.
I'll dig out my books if you want a real page reference tomorrow morning after I get off work, but for a heavy pistol with base damage code of 9M, the progression is as follows:
0 - Miss
1 - 9M
2 - 9S
4 - 9D
6 - 11D
8 - 13D
It's been that way since at least 2nd Edition when they set staging at a permanent 2 for every weapon.
BTW, it's not that imbalancing when you remember that not everyone in the Shadowrun world has Pistols: 6. In fact, Pistols: 6 would be on the level of a competition shooter. Even Lone Star officers only have a base Pistols rating of 4 (modified by their specialization in their specific weapon).
And if it seems like the gunfights are getting out of hand in damage, I'll bet you money it's because they're not going for cover. The FIRST thing you're taught in any combat training you take is that if someone starts shooting at you, before you do anything else, find some sort of cover. A target they can't see is a target they can't kill. The higher the target numbers to hit are, the less chance the attackers are going to be staging their damage up. If the players aren't going for cover, you can teach them the lesson in one encounter by simply having all the NPCs do so. Once they see that light pistol the ganger has is having a better effect than their shotgun, they'll think twice about standing toe-to-toe in a gunfight.
Watch any gunfight in a movie and you'll see. The people are constantly moving around and dodging from cover to cover in order to make sure they can't be seen and that they're constantly moving. Both of these make them harder to hit and, if they do take a hit, it's less likely to be as accurate. In game terms, this means the target numbers to hit go up, and it's more likely that you'll be able to stage damage down, esp. if you're wearing armor.
The Abstruse One
0 - Miss
1 - 9M
2 - 9S
4 - 9D
6 - 11D
8 - 13D
It's been that way since at least 2nd Edition when they set staging at a permanent 2 for every weapon.
BTW, it's not that imbalancing when you remember that not everyone in the Shadowrun world has Pistols: 6. In fact, Pistols: 6 would be on the level of a competition shooter. Even Lone Star officers only have a base Pistols rating of 4 (modified by their specialization in their specific weapon).
And if it seems like the gunfights are getting out of hand in damage, I'll bet you money it's because they're not going for cover. The FIRST thing you're taught in any combat training you take is that if someone starts shooting at you, before you do anything else, find some sort of cover. A target they can't see is a target they can't kill. The higher the target numbers to hit are, the less chance the attackers are going to be staging their damage up. If the players aren't going for cover, you can teach them the lesson in one encounter by simply having all the NPCs do so. Once they see that light pistol the ganger has is having a better effect than their shotgun, they'll think twice about standing toe-to-toe in a gunfight.
Watch any gunfight in a movie and you'll see. The people are constantly moving around and dodging from cover to cover in order to make sure they can't be seen and that they're constantly moving. Both of these make them harder to hit and, if they do take a hit, it's less likely to be as accurate. In game terms, this means the target numbers to hit go up, and it's more likely that you'll be able to stage damage down, esp. if you're wearing armor.
The Abstruse One
Where does over-damage fit into your equation, Abstruse?
The way it works as I understand it is like this...
0 - Miss
1 - 9M
2 - 9S
4 - 9D
6 - 9 - 1 Box over
8 - 9 - 2 boxes over
Actually, because I do the progression slightly differently, it looks like this...
0 - Miss
1 - 9M
3 - 9S
5 - 9D
7 - 9 - 1 Box over
9 - 9 - 2 Boxes over
The way it works as I understand it is like this...
0 - Miss
1 - 9M
2 - 9S
4 - 9D
6 - 9 - 1 Box over
8 - 9 - 2 boxes over
Actually, because I do the progression slightly differently, it looks like this...
0 - Miss
1 - 9M
3 - 9S
5 - 9D
7 - 9 - 1 Box over
9 - 9 - 2 Boxes over
It doesn't.
If you take a Deadly wound, that's 10 boxes. Nuff said. You can't get more than 10 from a single shot of ANYTHING (with the exception fo the Deadlier Over-Damage rule, which I can't remember off hand and, IIRC, is optional anyway).
If you're at 10 boxes already and someone pops your prone form for another light wound, then that's one box of your body overflow gone, get it?
You can't go from zero damage to body-overflow in one pop. All you can do with your Heavy pistol example is Medium, Serious, Deadly and Deadly AND harder to resist! Which is what makes the whole thing great. If you've got high skill and good target mods, then your massive number of successes will make a deadly wound that's nigh on impossible to resist, unless you're Bernie the Troll Cyber Zombie...
If you take a Deadly wound, that's 10 boxes. Nuff said. You can't get more than 10 from a single shot of ANYTHING (with the exception fo the Deadlier Over-Damage rule, which I can't remember off hand and, IIRC, is optional anyway).
If you're at 10 boxes already and someone pops your prone form for another light wound, then that's one box of your body overflow gone, get it?
You can't go from zero damage to body-overflow in one pop. All you can do with your Heavy pistol example is Medium, Serious, Deadly and Deadly AND harder to resist! Which is what makes the whole thing great. If you've got high skill and good target mods, then your massive number of successes will make a deadly wound that's nigh on impossible to resist, unless you're Bernie the Troll Cyber Zombie...
I think everybody needs to take a look at page 114 of the BBB.
From my read, staging happens AFTER both the Target and the Shooter make their respective success tests. The other consequences of this are that the shooter can't make the target's body resistance test higher simply by accruing X number of successes and if the shot isn't dodged, 0 net successes for the shooter can still result in base damage.
From my read, staging happens AFTER both the Target and the Shooter make their respective success tests. The other consequences of this are that the shooter can't make the target's body resistance test higher simply by accruing X number of successes and if the shot isn't dodged, 0 net successes for the shooter can still result in base damage.
If that's the case then my bad - I've not got the book handy and I have a lousy memory...
Drain Brain is right on how it works. It stops at D.
For those of you who say you get overflow after staging to Deadly, you are remembering the rules incorrectly. That is listed as an optional rule on pg 126 of SR3.
For those of you who say you get overflow after staging to Deadly, you are remembering the rules incorrectly. That is listed as an optional rule on pg 126 of SR3.
I think most people are remembering the rules from SR2. After dealing with variable staging in SR1, SR2's rules on the matter were a very good step in the right direction and would explain why they've "stuck". 
| QUOTE |
| You can't go from zero damage to body-overflow in one pop. All you can do with your Heavy pistol example is Medium, Serious, Deadly and Deadly AND harder to resist! |
Where is this found?
| QUOTE |
| page 114 of the BBB |
BBB?
Drain Brain, SR3 says nothing at all (pg 125 SR3 Applying Damage) about not doing over damage in one shot.
The closest reference is in the optional topic of Dealier Over Damage - "Ideally, the standard rules prevent characters from certain death as a result of single, unexpected attacks and thus improve gameplay."
Modesitt read: pg. 125 SR3 - Exceeding the Condition Monitor (Part of the standard rules, I might add.
BBB=Big Black Book. SR3, in other words.
I have no books with me (I'm at work) and so cannot back up ANYTHING of what I say. And, as I said, I have a LOUSY memory. I just waffle at memories which may or may not be valid, as inspired by my fellow posters. So there's no need to get antsy about it...
I have no books with me (I'm at work) and so cannot back up ANYTHING of what I say. And, as I said, I have a LOUSY memory. I just waffle at memories which may or may not be valid, as inspired by my fellow posters. So there's no need to get antsy about it...
DB, I honestly did not know what the BBB was. I did not know you were referring to SR3.
Speaking of pg. 114 - The closest thing listed: "Deadly damage is the highest level of damage possible."
On pg. 125, "If a character takes more Physical damage than there are boxes in the Physical column, the character is in trouble. Overflowing the Physical column means that the character is near death. Instant death occurs only if damage overflows the Physical column by more than the character's Body Rating. Therefore, a character can take 10 points plus their Body Rating in damage before they die."
Speaking of pg. 114 - The closest thing listed: "Deadly damage is the highest level of damage possible."
On pg. 125, "If a character takes more Physical damage than there are boxes in the Physical column, the character is in trouble. Overflowing the Physical column means that the character is near death. Instant death occurs only if damage overflows the Physical column by more than the character's Body Rating. Therefore, a character can take 10 points plus their Body Rating in damage before they die."
The rule you are all thinking of it related to melee combat, and only works with Melee combat because the way it is staged is different than ranged combat.
Melee combat is staged BEFORE the damage resistance roll, and any for each 2 sucesses over deadly the power of the attack stages up by one.
Ranged combat is staged AFTER the damage resistance roll, so the power of the attack can not be raised by attacking dice.
In melee combat if you lose by 8 sucesses you resist a (weapon power)D wound with a plus 2 to the power.
In Ranged combat (We'll assume Heavy Pistol with standard ammo) you resist a 9m plus however many sucesses were left over after dodging and damage resistance stes, thich is that staged up to determine how much damage you took.
In melee combat, getting 2 sucesses on damage resistance means you took, at aboslutely maximum, a serious wound. All those extra sucesses above deadly did nothing but raise the power that is eventually resisted, and the max that power can be is a D.
In ranged combat is can be MUCH harder to resist damage, because you can get 2 sucesses (or more) and STILL be taking a D, which is impossible by SR3 canon melee rules.
For that matter, the deadlier overdamage rules only work correctly with firearms for this very reason. Using deadlier overdamage with melee makes melee MUCH MUCH harder to resist than is intended in canon.
[edit] this is evidenced by SR3 pg 109-110 Regarding Ranged Combat:
1) Determine Range
2) Apply Situational Target Modifiers
3) Make Attacker's Success Test
4) Resolve Dodge Test
5) Resolve Target's Damage Resistance Test
6) Determine The Outcome
7) Apply Damage (which includes staging the attack)
And by SR3 pg 122 Regarding Melee Combat:
1) Make Attacker's Success Test
2) Make Defender's Success Test
3) Compare Sucesses
4) Determine Damage (Over deadly each 2 sucesses raises power by one)
5) Resist Damage (Each 2 sucesses lowers wound level by one. period.)
In rangerd combat extra sucess have to be overcome in order to stage attack down, while in melee you need 8 sucesses to take no damage, period.[/edit]
Melee combat is staged BEFORE the damage resistance roll, and any for each 2 sucesses over deadly the power of the attack stages up by one.
Ranged combat is staged AFTER the damage resistance roll, so the power of the attack can not be raised by attacking dice.
In melee combat if you lose by 8 sucesses you resist a (weapon power)D wound with a plus 2 to the power.
In Ranged combat (We'll assume Heavy Pistol with standard ammo) you resist a 9m plus however many sucesses were left over after dodging and damage resistance stes, thich is that staged up to determine how much damage you took.
In melee combat, getting 2 sucesses on damage resistance means you took, at aboslutely maximum, a serious wound. All those extra sucesses above deadly did nothing but raise the power that is eventually resisted, and the max that power can be is a D.
In ranged combat is can be MUCH harder to resist damage, because you can get 2 sucesses (or more) and STILL be taking a D, which is impossible by SR3 canon melee rules.
For that matter, the deadlier overdamage rules only work correctly with firearms for this very reason. Using deadlier overdamage with melee makes melee MUCH MUCH harder to resist than is intended in canon.
[edit] this is evidenced by SR3 pg 109-110 Regarding Ranged Combat:
1) Determine Range
2) Apply Situational Target Modifiers
3) Make Attacker's Success Test
4) Resolve Dodge Test
5) Resolve Target's Damage Resistance Test
6) Determine The Outcome
7) Apply Damage (which includes staging the attack)
And by SR3 pg 122 Regarding Melee Combat:
1) Make Attacker's Success Test
2) Make Defender's Success Test
3) Compare Sucesses
4) Determine Damage (Over deadly each 2 sucesses raises power by one)
5) Resist Damage (Each 2 sucesses lowers wound level by one. period.)
In rangerd combat extra sucess have to be overcome in order to stage attack down, while in melee you need 8 sucesses to take no damage, period.[/edit]
| QUOTE (CanvasBack @ Oct 12 2003, 01:12 PM) |
| if the shot isn't dodged, 0 net successes for the shooter can still result in base damage. |
And this is a problem why? It was a nonclean shot that hit, but that didn't hit well at all against Mr. Tough Guy. Successes cease to mean what they meant before after the dodge test ends.
~J
[edit] I've seen the power-increasing rule, too. I think it might've been in Cannon Companion as a melee rule, but I can't guarantee that.
Yeah, I realise that... NP.
Here's the visualisation (I'm ignoring the stun stuff):
Damage Monitor
PHYSICAL [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ] Damage Overflow : [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
Taking a deadly wound from this starting point would result in this:
Damage Monitor
PHYSICAL [*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*] Damage Overflow : [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
whereas starting from here:
Damage Monitor
PHYSICAL [*][*][*][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ] Damage Overflow : [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
... and taking a deadly wound would result in this:
Damage Monitor
PHYSICAL [*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*] Damage Overflow : [*][*][*][ ][ ][ ]
And in 18 turns you could be dead.
You haven't taken more than a Deadly wound in either case. You just can't get to the eleventh (twelfth, thirteenth etc) box from a clear, healthy start by taking only ONE WOUND.
As I recall it.
Here's the visualisation (I'm ignoring the stun stuff):
Damage Monitor
PHYSICAL [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ] Damage Overflow : [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
Taking a deadly wound from this starting point would result in this:
Damage Monitor
PHYSICAL [*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*] Damage Overflow : [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
whereas starting from here:
Damage Monitor
PHYSICAL [*][*][*][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ] Damage Overflow : [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
... and taking a deadly wound would result in this:
Damage Monitor
PHYSICAL [*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*] Damage Overflow : [*][*][*][ ][ ][ ]
And in 18 turns you could be dead.
You haven't taken more than a Deadly wound in either case. You just can't get to the eleventh (twelfth, thirteenth etc) box from a clear, healthy start by taking only ONE WOUND.
As I recall it.
| QUOTE (Drain Brain) |
| You just can't get to the eleventh (twelfth, thirteenth etc) box from a clear, healthy start by taking only ONE WOUND. |
Two words: Naval Damage.
~J
Well, here is a theory that I have seen posted in this thread. You cannot take over damage from one shot.
I say, why not?? Since when can a single bullet NOT kill someone? Why would I have to shoot twice? If I aim properly and execute a controlled fire attempt, and my aim is true, I should be able to paste the target with one bullet. Efficiency is what it is all about anyway.
I say, why not?? Since when can a single bullet NOT kill someone? Why would I have to shoot twice? If I aim properly and execute a controlled fire attempt, and my aim is true, I should be able to paste the target with one bullet. Efficiency is what it is all about anyway.
| QUOTE |
| Two words: Naval Damage. |
Now you're just being sillyIn that eventuality, I would rule that it's a moot point - the character no longer has a condition monitor, since the player no longer has a character!
@ Nindaru: I'll not contest that. Hell, I never said that the rules made sense!
| QUOTE |
| Two words: Naval Damage. |
I would love to see some chump stage down the damage from a 15" gun!! ROFLMAO
EDIT
| QUOTE |
| Nindaru: I'll not contest that. Hell, I never said that the rules made sense! |
Ok, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't going insane... =)
Dude, we're all insane!
| QUOTE (Drain Brain) |
| Dude, we're all insane! |
That we are. =)
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Oct 12 2003, 01:08 PM) | ||
And this is a problem why? It was a nonclean shot that hit, but that didn't hit well at all against Mr. Tough Guy. Successes cease to mean what they meant before after the dodge test ends. |
Uhmmm, I'm not contesting that, but someone else seemed to be under the mis-apprehension that if the attacker had 0 successes, the target wouldn't be damaged. This is in fact only the case if the attacker missed outright.
Or if it was dodge test successes that moved the total number of successes to zero.
~J
~J
| QUOTE (Nindaru @ Oct 12 2003, 11:16 AM) |
| Well, here is a theory that I have seen posted in this thread. You cannot take over damage from one shot. I say, why not?? Since when can a single bullet NOT kill someone? Why would I have to shoot twice? If I aim properly and execute a controlled fire attempt, and my aim is true, I should be able to paste the target with one bullet. Efficiency is what it is all about anyway. |
Because a combat turn is only 3 seconds, and unless you're being very destructive, it'll take at least that long for his body to fully stop functioning. A single shot can cause some very nasty, and possibly permanent damage; but if help arrives within 3 seconds, his chances of survival are much better.
Oh, and don't forget-- it's possible to take a Light wound from a heavy pistol shot. Let's go back to the examples: Joe is shooting at an unfortunate by the name of Liam. Joe takes aim with his trusty Ares Predator (9M, no modifiers) and scores 5 successes. Liam spends 3 Combat Pool on a dodge, all of which succeed, but that's not enough. He then makes a Resistance roll, resulting in another 4 successes.
Because Liam's Dodge test wasn't high enough, he was hit. Liam has a total of 7 successes to stage down the damage, but Joe scored 5 in staging it back up. The net result is that Joe's base damage (9M) is staged down once, to 9L. If Liam had scored two more successes, either Dodge or Soak, he would have taken no damage.
Overdamage accrues at what, one/combat round? So a typical human (Body 3) with a gunshot wound to the head dies in nine seconds.
Sounds reasonable to me.
~J
Sounds reasonable to me.
~J
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| Or if it was dodge test successes that moved the total number of successes to zero. ~J |
No, in fact pg 113 of Shadow Run Third Edition, a.k.a. the BBB, is pretty explicit. The Dodge test needs to have more successes than the shooter's number of successes, a tie goes to the person shooting, but dodge successes get to be used to stage down still.
P.S. Don't you love/hate long weekends?
Ok, then I'm wrong.
Pardon me while I now proceed to kill everywho who has viewed this thread in order to remove the evidence.
Mmm, long weekends...
~J
Pardon me while I now proceed to kill everywho who has viewed this thread in order to remove the evidence.
Mmm, long weekends...
~J
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| Overdamage accrues at what, one/combat round? So a typical human (Body 3) with a gunshot wound to the head dies in nine seconds. Sounds reasonable to me. ~J |
No, they take one box every (Body) rounds, don't they? So, by your example, wouldn't they die in 27 seconds?
And thanks to the wonderful, amorphus "no hit location" damage rules, there are no head shots...
A Deadly wound is whatever the GM says it is, including a headshot. It just isn't any different than ten light pistol shots to the left arm in a single turn.
~J
[edit]And you're right. So it can be kinda silly if the GM decides that it was a headshot, but a troll with a sniper rifle round lodged in his aorta probably would take a really long time to actually die.
~J
[edit]And you're right. So it can be kinda silly if the GM decides that it was a headshot, but a troll with a sniper rifle round lodged in his aorta probably would take a really long time to actually die.
| QUOTE |
| Modesitt read: pg. 125 SR3 - Exceeding the Condition Monitor (Part of the standard rules, I might add. |
I am not disputing that overflow damage exists. I AM disputing the mere idea that you can deal more than 10 boxes of damage in a single non-naval scale ranged attack under the standard damage staging rules. I'm going to just quote the entire section from page 126 for your benefit that pertains to this. This section is apparently not getting read. May the SR gods forgive me for posting this much out of the book.
| QUOTE ("pg 126 BBB @ left column, 3rd paragraph") |
Deadlier Over Damage Ideally, the standard damage rules prevent characters from certain death as a rseult of single, unexpected attacks and thus improve game play. However, the standard rules also can create some ridiculous situations. For example, troll characters have such high Body Attributes that they can theoretically survive for a very long time even after taking a shot from a Panther assault cannon square in the head! To remedy this problem, gamemasters can apply the Deadlier Over-Damage rule. Under this rule, over-damage applies whenever the Power of an attack is greater than the target's body multiplied by 1.5(For an even deadlier game, apply over-damage whenever the Power of an attack is greater than the target's Body). Over damage is simply damage created by extra successes after a weapon's Damage Level has been staged up to D. Every two successes translate into 1 additional Damage Point, which is applied against the target's Physical Condition Monitor(If the attack caused Deadly Stun damage) or Body Overflow (if teh attack caused Deadly Physical damage). |
Is anyone disputing that this is an optional rule? If you dispute this being an optional rule and therefore it is how combat normally works, then this conversation simply can't continue because we are reading the rules in a fundamentally different fashion.
Edit: Minor clarification.
Optional and normal are not paralell, the rule may be optional, but if 99% of all GM's use it, then it is also normal, while not using it would be abnormal. Normal is subjective. I think it stands to reason that nearly everyone, if not everyone here that GM's uses that rule... If they didn't we wouldn't be talking about it like it's fact.
Text in context is a good thing in a conversation
Text in context is a good thing in a conversation
Modesitt, since that IS an option, let's say I ignore it. Now its rules do not exist, the text is virtually erased from my SR3. With that in mind, I challenge you to find me other text that says over damage cannot be applied in one hit, from a fresh, no wound target.
You can't.
While we have already noted that sometimes the rules do not make sense, there are also times where the rules are put in odd places. Personally, I think one bullet, no matter what its range of damage is, should be able to kill in one shot. Without reading that optional text I find suporting evidence for my theory in the standard section of the rules.
The problem I am having right now is with combat defining text being inserted within optional rules. Why is it that the text that states "the standard damage rules prevent characters from certain death" is located outside of the MAIN OVERDAMAGE paragraph?!? It makes no sense and is what started all of this silly mess.
So now, after reading all the text, I am going to stick by how I do things. I read the standard rules and came to my conclusion, you all say the OD is an option. Either way, it is the same effect in my games. =) So, I guess I run a more deadly game. Shhh... Don't tell my players...
You can't.
While we have already noted that sometimes the rules do not make sense, there are also times where the rules are put in odd places. Personally, I think one bullet, no matter what its range of damage is, should be able to kill in one shot. Without reading that optional text I find suporting evidence for my theory in the standard section of the rules.
The problem I am having right now is with combat defining text being inserted within optional rules. Why is it that the text that states "the standard damage rules prevent characters from certain death" is located outside of the MAIN OVERDAMAGE paragraph?!? It makes no sense and is what started all of this silly mess.
So now, after reading all the text, I am going to stick by how I do things. I read the standard rules and came to my conclusion, you all say the OD is an option. Either way, it is the same effect in my games. =) So, I guess I run a more deadly game. Shhh... Don't tell my players...
Nindaru, because the rules do NOT address something is never a valid argument EVER. The rules do not say that you cannot lasso the moon with a rope, pull real hard and smash it into the bad guy's head.
The rules do not say a literally infinite number of things. This makes that an invalid argument.
We are dealing with what the rules DO say, and with the exception of the optional rule on Deadlier Overdamage the rules never say that that is possible. They do not in fact mention it in any way shape or form. That makes it entirely a GM's call, and whatever he calls is by definition a house rule, since the rules do not address it.
The rules do not say a literally infinite number of things. This makes that an invalid argument.
We are dealing with what the rules DO say, and with the exception of the optional rule on Deadlier Overdamage the rules never say that that is possible. They do not in fact mention it in any way shape or form. That makes it entirely a GM's call, and whatever he calls is by definition a house rule, since the rules do not address it.
But by that path of thinking, BitBasher, I equally challenge you to find for me, in the rules a means of accruing more than 10 boxes of thysical damage, from a single shot whilst avoiding the Deadlier Overdamage optional rule.
If you can, it's worth a
to ya...
If you can, it's worth a
to ya...
Again, naval damage. Barring that, I'll let someone else try to look if they want.
~J
~J
| QUOTE |
| I equally challenge you to find for me, in the rules a means of accruing more than 10 boxes of thysical damage, from a single shot whilst avoiding the Deadlier Overdamage optional rule. |
You can't. I guess I am just pissed that the only place it is addressed is in an area that I would have disregarded due to it being part of the option text. Next time I will read the entire text.
So, we have established that the rules do not say you can, nor do they say you cannot (outside of the optional text). Figures. LOL
Righty-o it's only either naval damage or an option rule. Other than that it doesn't happen.
Where is this Naval Damage stuff located? (I just found it amusing because I and a few of my friends are Navy.)
Naval Damage is in Rigger 3. It's a higher scale of damage used for rating POWERFUL weapons, like naval guns/cannons/railguns, anti-warship missiles and torpedos, and IIRC some heavy tank cannons/railguns.
Yes. It's just as silly, though, as imagining a tank's main weapon. You get shot with that and you're chunky salsa too...
Curse those Naval Weapons... they're too extreme! Why should they need rules for them in SR? I'm breaking into a research facility, damnit, who gives a monkey's nut about railguns?
Curse those Naval Weapons... they're too extreme! Why should they need rules for them in SR? I'm breaking into a research facility, damnit, who gives a monkey's nut about railguns?
DB, forget rail guns, I want to see someone create a Coilgun a.k.a. Gauss Gun.
Because if your rigger is attempting to fly the tbird by the installation, they may have a nice pretty artillery gun waiting for him.
The Abstruse One
The Abstruse One
Hehe... Give me initiative and a Gauss Gun and I ask you... What artillery...? =0
Because they know runners get into crazy hijinks, and they wanted to have naval damage waiting for them on the other side.
Or because they know sometimes people play Desert Wars campaigns, in which this stuff makes rather a lot of sense.
Also, I'll take a railgun over a gauss gun anyday, as a point of style if nothing else.
~J
Or because they know sometimes people play Desert Wars campaigns, in which this stuff makes rather a lot of sense.
Also, I'll take a railgun over a gauss gun anyday, as a point of style if nothing else.
~J
Lets not forget the ever popular, "I shoot them with the super secret research project that we are stealing"
so it's good to know how much damage they take when it backfires.
so it's good to know how much damage they take when it backfires.
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