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DarkCrisis
After my last game I don't see how only using the stealth program rating is fair.

Say the node has a Firewall of 5 and Analyze of 5 that's 10 dice.

The Hacker has a Stealth program of 5. And Hacking 5 plus Exploit 5. Thats 10 dice.

No to hack a 3 system 3 Firewall node for an Admin account (+6) (which you pretty much need to do anything important) is 12 success total.

The Hacker has 10 dice to get 12 success.

While the node has 10 dice to get 5 success to detect the Hacker. Just 5.

That's insane.

Thoughts?
Edward
Well the hacker has another 2 dice for hot sim and conceivably another 2 for cracker and another 2 for specialization. And you can have a couple of agents assist you

You just have to accept that if you want to jam into a secure system with admin access your going to set of an alarm unless you spend edge to get rerolls or extra dice.

Edward
The_Eyes
The 12 isn't a TN; it's an Opposed Test.

So it's Hacker with 10 dice (plus mods for Hot Sim etc) vs. 12 dice for the system.

Stealth is a TN; the rest are opposed tests. Except for the exceptions.
Ranneko
Makes sense to me, if you want to get in on Admin access find a way to seriously boost stealth and/or exploit, and/or don't hack in on the fly.

If you take your time the system gets 1 chance to spot you.
Aaron
If you hack in hard and fast, you'll most likely be noticed.

If you hack in slow and romantic like, you've got a lot better chance.

Usually, I only hack in fast when I need to, usually against cybered-up opponents. In those cases, I don't particularly care if they find out what I'm doing, because shortly thereafter I'm shutting off their eyes or something.
Edward
Its not an apposed test, it’s a threshold, you need 12 successes. With 10 dice it is imposable to get in with only one pass.

Jaid
they only get 1 success if you hack in the slow way, no matter how long it takes you. i believe that's the point that is being made.

and btw, you don't need admin level access to do everything... it just makes it easier. if you are willing to make hacking tests every time you want to do something your account doesn't authorise you for, then you don't need an admin account at all.
Backgammon
QUOTE (DarkCrisis)
After my last game I don't see how only using the stealth program rating is fair.

Say the node has a Firewall of 5 and Analyze of 5 that's 10 dice.

The Hacker has a Stealth program of 5. And Hacking 5 plus Exploit 5. Thats 10 dice.

No to hack a 3 system 3 Firewall node for an Admin account (+6) (which you pretty much need to do anything important) is 12 success total.

The Hacker has 10 dice to get 12 success.

While the node has 10 dice to get 5 success to detect the Hacker. Just 5.

That's insane.

Thoughts?

Your example is flawed: the node cannot run Analyze 5 on System 3. The program rating drops to 3.

-X-
QUOTE (Aaron)
If you hack in hard and fast, you'll most likely be noticed.

If you hack in slow and romantic like, you've got a lot better chance.

Usually, I only hack in fast when I need to, usually against cybered-up opponents. In those cases, I don't particularly care if they find out what I'm doing, because shortly thereafter I'm shutting off their eyes or something.

That sounds like an amazingly cool character! So you stop mid-combat to perform the delicate cybersurgery required to break into their entirely non-wireless cyberware?! Awesome! Sick and twisted, but awesome.
Edward
Cyber eyes are usually wireless. Or at least skin linked to the comlink where the user is paranoid.

If you have a smart gun link in your eye you need a connection to your gun. If you don’t have a smart gun link you still need your eyes connected to your pan to view AR threw them.

And I am assuming that buy eyes he also means AR contacts or AR glasses, whatever may be present.

Edward
-X-
QUOTE (Edward)
Cyber eyes are usually wireless. Or at least skin linked to the comlink where the user is paranoid.

If you have a smart gun link in your eye you need a connection to your gun. If you don’t have a smart gun link you still need your eyes connected to your pan to view AR threw them.

And I am assuming that buy eyes he also means AR contacts or AR glasses, whatever may be present.

Edward

If you don't have a Smartgun system that transmits information through an induction pad or across the surface of your skin to the receiver then presumably they could mess with your Smartgun information.

Knowing this, it would probably be best to entirely limit acceptable input from your Gun to your Display to nothing more than small text in the corner of your vision and the virtual laser dot indicating where the weapon is pointed. That way if you do get hacked the worst that happens is your display that lists range and available ammo says "Screw you hippie!" instead of what it's supposed to display and the indicator flashes all over your field of vision.

But why in the world would you tie that system into the one that controls whether your eyes are on or not?

As for contacts and goggles and the like, not everything is wireless. Most of these devices could be set to receive information sent along the user's skin. So only their wireless input would be vulnerable to tampering.

I never got the impression that EVERYTHING was suddenly wireless. That would just be really stupid. Why leave your cyberarm vulnerable to attack if you don't need to? You need a DNI for most cybernetics to work without having to essentially Rig your own arm. Of all equipment in 2070 cyberware is probably second only to bioware as equipment LEAST likely to be wireless. Not being wireless gives you full protection from hackers at what is typically zero cost since most such cyberware includes a DNI in the first place.
Tarantula
Remember, you can't just "set" something to be skinlinked, you have to pay the 50¥ per item to make it skin link enabled. Alternately, realize that any wireless cyberware has a signal of 0, so to hack directly into it you would need your commlink to be within 1 meter of said ware.
-X-
QUOTE (Tarantula)
Remember, you can't just "set" something to be skinlinked, you have to pay the 50¥ per item to make it skin link enabled. Alternately, realize that any wireless cyberware has a signal of 0, so to hack directly into it you would need your commlink to be within 1 meter of said ware.

Skin linking sounds exactly like one of those 'optional' features that comes standard on high end brand name gear so they can happily list it in the ARO explaining why it costs so much.

Now, if you pick your 'ware up on the super cheap (but still new) I could see it missing plenty of those options and having nothing but a pitiful wireless connection. Or if you go even cheaper from that brand you've never heard before it might not have any connection at all (NI not included, oops).

At least in games I run hacking into someone's activated wireless commlink is one thing (very doable), hacking into their implanted cybernetics is another thing entirely (Probably not going to happen without being at point blank range with cybernetic diagnostics gear or actual surgery.)
Edward
“If you don't have a Smart gun system that transmits information through an induction pad or across the surface of your skin to the receiver then presumably they could mess with your Smart gun information.” The smart gun system is not isolated within the cyber eye, you hack in you can play with it all. Induction pads are not even available any more.

“As for contacts and goggles and the like, not everything is wireless. Most of these devices could be set to receive information sent along the user's skin. So only their wireless input would be vulnerable to tampering.”

Most people use wireless systems, this is what the book says, only paranoid people use a skin link that is les convenient and more expensive than having a 1 meter radius PAN. Outside that distance there is no increased risk.

In order to view AR your vision system (be it cyber eyes, glasses or contacts) must be connected to your comlink, and your comlink must be turned on, practically everybody uses AR, security personnel need it to reseve team communications. Thus you can hack into there comlink and from there have instant access to there vision system regardless of buy what method they connect the devices.

Things like cyber arms I agree, there is no good reason to have a cyber limb on wireless. Unless it has something init that wants to be wireless. One description was that you can control a limb while it is not attached to you, this only makes sense if the limbs where going to get shot of regularly (without being rendered inoperable) or could be removed esaly in the field.

I am seeing an interesting character with a collection of limbs, obvious and disguised that are used for different operations.

Edward
DarkCrisis
QUOTE (Edward)
Well the hacker has another 2 dice for hot sim and conceivably another 2 for cracker and another 2 for specialization. And you can have a couple of agents assist you

You just have to accept that if you want to jam into a secure system with admin access your going to set of an alarm unless you spend edge to get rerolls or extra dice.

Edward

Cracker?

And Agent's roll to hack combine with yours?

What do you specialize in? Whats it called?

----

And as mentioned by another, my example was flawed but it was just an example. point being the node gets an easier time to see you.



The Jopp
QUOTE (DarkCrisis)
QUOTE (Edward @ May 29 2006, 08:09 PM)
Well the hacker has another 2 dice for hot sim and conceivably another 2 for cracker and another 2 for specialization. And you can have a couple of agents assist you

You just have to accept that if you want to jam into a secure system with admin access your going to set of an alarm unless you spend edge to get rerolls or extra dice.

Edward

Cracker?

And Agent's roll to hack combine with yours?

What do you specialize in? Whats it called?

----

And as mentioned by another, my example was flawed but it was just an example. point being the node gets an easier time to see you.

Hacking 6 add specialization with Exploit (+2) add Codeslinger (Exploit) quality for another +2 and then you run rating 5 program and Hotsim (+2)

A total of 6+2+2+2+5= 17D6 on an exploit test with Stealth 5



Then you MIGHT use agents for teamwork tests, as long as the GM allows it that is (according to the RAW it is allowed)
DarkCrisis
Wow nice! 17 dice!

What is "The RAW?"

I would think and Agent or 2nd hacker could help with hacking the same node.

I'd have to see what the book says.
The Jopp
QUOTE (DarkCrisis)
What is "The RAW?"

Rules As Written biggrin.gif
mdynna
In my games, you can never make something "hack-proof." If you turn off something's Wireless antenna, and/or Skinlink it that just means an enemy Hacker has to go through your Commlink. I have always seen it that if someone breaks into your Commlink, they can do whatever they want to your gear, including shutting off your Smartlink or Cybereyes.
-X-
QUOTE (mdynna @ May 30 2006, 11:39 AM)
In my games, you can never make something "hack-proof."  If you turn off something's Wireless antenna, and/or Skinlink it that just means an enemy Hacker has to go through your Commlink.  I have always seen it that if someone breaks into your Commlink, they can do whatever they want to your gear, including shutting off your Smartlink or Cybereyes.

I do see where you are coming from, but for me...

Someone with Image link and a Smartgun system need never hook up either to their commlink if they don't want to. I'm sure there are huge advantages to hooking them up to the commlink (on the fly information transmitted from teammates showing enemy locations even on the other side of walls from you and the like), but there are advantages to the non-computer saavy (Say, a street sammy who might not want their vision turned off mid-battle) not connecting them.

Sometimes it makes more sense to risk attack for the additional information you might get, sometimes it makes more sense to directly link your Smartgun and Image Link and use Goggles you can easily take off for AR.

So in my games some folks will be fully wireless to the point where if you really infiltrate their commlink you might have the equivalent of a control manipulation spell, and some folks you simply won't be able to muck with their gear without cutting them open.

The likelyhood of someone grabbing your hair to gain an advantage in a fight is fairly low, and yet there are people who crop their hair very close just to prevent someone from taking advantage. Shadowrun is a world that breeds paranoia so for me, it doesn't seem like a stretch that people would be de-wirelessing some of their gear since that goes a long way to protecting them from hacking.
TBRMInsanity
The only true way to be hack-proof is to turn off all communicating equipment. This is known as electronic silence. BUT it has one big disadvantage, you can't do $#!# until you turn on your equipment again. Electronic silence is only used when you don't need any of your equipment on. Hackers in SR4 would almost never go into electronic silence and TMs can't.
TBRMInsanity
QUOTE (X- @ May 30 2006, 12:19 PM)
QUOTE (mdynna @ May 30 2006, 11:39 AM)
In my games, you can never make something "hack-proof."  If you turn off something's Wireless antenna, and/or Skinlink it that just means an enemy Hacker has to go through your Commlink.  I have always seen it that if someone breaks into your Commlink, they can do whatever they want to your gear, including shutting off your Smartlink or Cybereyes.

I do see where you are coming from, but for me...

Someone with Image link and a Smartgun system need never hook up either to their commlink if they don't want to. I'm sure there are huge advantages to hooking them up to the commlink (on the fly information transmitted from teammates showing enemy locations even on the other side of walls from you and the like), but there are advantages to the non-computer saavy (Say, a street sammy who might not want their vision turned off mid-battle) not connecting them.

Sometimes it makes more sense to risk attack for the additional information you might get, sometimes it makes more sense to directly link your Smartgun and Image Link and use Goggles you can easily take off for AR.

So in my games some folks will be fully wireless to the point where if you really infiltrate their commlink you might have the equivalent of a control manipulation spell, and some folks you simply won't be able to muck with their gear without cutting them open.

The likelyhood of someone grabbing your hair to gain an advantage in a fight is fairly low, and yet there are people who crop their hair very close just to prevent someone from taking advantage. Shadowrun is a world that breeds paranoia so for me, it doesn't seem like a stretch that people would be de-wirelessing some of their gear since that goes a long way to protecting them from hacking.



If you are running any sort of wireless equipment you need to run it through your commlink. That means you can't have non-hackable smartlink contact lenses.
mdynna
QUOTE (X-)
Someone with Image link and a Smartgun system need never hook up either to their commlink if they don't want to.
This is where I disagree. I think that for any sort of information-passing equipment to work, the Commlink must be present to act as a "network hub." I believe this was the intention of the entire SR4 Matrix. You can no longer "directly link" 2 devices together (like Smartlink and Cybereyes). You can force someone to have to go through your Commlink, and you can link Commlinks in a "closed network" to force an enemy to go through this Commlink (your group's Hacker/TM), but you can never make a device totally inaccessible.

Although this may not seem "logical" if you are relating it to RL tech, it's a character inclusion mechanic. Namely, "pure" Hackers can do something in Combat now. They need not cower in the corner and wait for the Sammie and Adept to clean things up. It is this idea, IMO, that was the best change in SR4. That is why in my SR4 world, you can no more make yourself "un-hackable" than you can make yourself "un-shootable" or "un-magicable." Every character type gets their chance to contribute in a combat situation.
FanGirl
QUOTE (TBRMInsanity @ May 30 2006, 12:53 PM)
Hackers in SR4 would almost never go into electronic silence and TMs can't.

TMs can go into silence by going into an area with no wireless access, but they tend to get all nervous and fidgety when they do so. I have decided that, if my TM should have to go into a dead zone, she'll go from slightly jittery to batshit insane in the space of a few hours.
Aaron
QUOTE (SR4 @ p. 304)

In 2070, almost every device is computerized and equipped with a wireless link—from guns to toasters to clothing to sensors to cyberware.


So there you have it.

That being said, it's not necessarily easy to hack said device. Anything that doesn't need a user- or security-level access definition doesn't have it, and so your average bit of cyberware only has an admin access, making it that much harder to hack directly. Add to that the fact that all such devices are going to be subscribed (slaved) only to the owner's commlink, which should be running in hidden mode. In order to turn off a set of cybereyes, for example, one would have to:
  1. Find the hidden commlink.
  2. Hack into the commlink the hard and fast way.
    1. The hacker is likely to be detected, at which point the target's Firewall gets a +4 bonus, assuming no other defenses.
  3. If the hacker has gained admin (or possibly security) access, do the deed; otherwise, a spoof attempt is in order.

I've tried this multiple times, and rarely get to the point where I can actually do anything before our gillette, adept, and spell slinger frag the baddies. The best I can do is usually to make sure they don't call for back-up.

Once (and only once, so far), I was able to hack into an attacker's commlink, mostly because I had some extra time as they beat their way into the room we were holed up inside, our shaman was zonked from drain, our gillette had leapt out of the (third-storey) window to outflank them and was confronting their magician, and our adept had critically glitched a leap from the same window. Not to mention the fact that I was throwing twenty dice (including Edge) and got a lot of sixes. So yeah, actually managing to hack an opponent in combat time is pretty rare, in my experience.
Shrike30
Hacking someone's gear "in combat" is fricking hard. Putting a bullet in their face is a lot faster.

Hacking someone's gear in a combat situation is a little different. The problem with a lot of SR4 combat is that it never occurs to anybody to do things like stay completely behind cover, blind-fire a few rounds in their general direction to keep them back, and let the decker get in a few seconds of hacking on their sammie's cyberwear, disconnecting his eyes and arm and smartlink and turning him into a gun turret. I have a feeling a lot less players would get hit if they'd learn patience nyahnyah.gif
mdynna
Why is it that players never take cover, stand out in the open fire full-auto from the hip, then complain that SR is too hard because they die all the time?

Oh I know! Because they're used to some other popular RPG where the game penalizes you for creativity in combat. The best way to fight any fight is to "stand and whack." Will we never be rid of the mental limitations that other game has imposed on us?
Tarantula
QUOTE (TBRMInsanity @ May 30 2006, 10:55 AM)
If you are running any sort of wireless equipment you need to run it through your commlink.  That means you can't have non-hackable smartlink contact lenses.

Yes you can, skinlink them, and heres the easiest way to be virtually hack proof.

Skinlink everything. Flip the switch on your commlink to disable its normal wifi antenna, and only use the skinlink to talk to it. Yes, you can still be hacked, if they bother to get up close and touch you. Personally, I think it is definately worth the 50¥xDevices for the sammy to go this route. Frankly, I can't really see any reason not to do this for the main combat characters. Keep a second commlink (without skinlink access) if you want to keep in radio contact with your team. Sure, they can hack in and mess with it... and its one attached devices which would be your subvocal mic. So, if your radio suddenly goes quiet, hit the reboot switch. Make 'em do it all over agian.
Shrike30
The problem with that rig is that you lose a lot of the ability to use the stuff a PAN is really cool for. Stuff like sharing your optical feed from your cybereyes, having a biomonitor let your teammates know you're alive, having the group's hacker give you an overlay of the blueprints of the building and putting the locations of the guards on it... and you've basically gone back to having an ID and a headset radio.

The reason a lot of runners have hackable commlinks (with or without running a dual-commlink rig) is because a ghosted-PAN, heavily reinforced commlink will more than likely provide you with a lot more good than harm in the long run. All those little +1s to +3s from AR information fed in by the rest of your group can really add up, and not having to do things like Observe in Detail for a teammate to relay you information (like, when he's unconcious and you don't know where the bullet is) can really make you a lot more effective in combat.
Tarantula
So keep a pair of glasses on that plug in to the second commlink that lets you talk to the team. Put a camera on the glasses, and if you feel like it, plug the biomonitor into the 2nd commlink also. Now you can get data from the rest of the team, send them video, and they can see if you're dead or not, and the worst that can happen is that you need to pull your glasses off because someone hacked it and blacked them out.
Aaron
QUOTE (Tarantula)
Yes you can, skinlink them, and heres the easiest way to be virtually hack proof.

Skinlink everything. [...] Sure, they can hack in and mess with it... and its one attached devices which would be your subvocal mic.

The other attached device would have to be an audio link, or else you'd lose your ability to hear your teammates. Of course, if you have cybernetic ears, there's nothing to stop a hacker from going from communications commlink to cyber ear to skinlink.

Besides, there's one thing that the wireless world and the ubiquitous computers and the instantaneous communications offers players, and that's the fact that there is no more meta-gaming at the table. It is trivial to pass a schematic or a visual to a teammate, or to all teammates. You don't have to say, "You don't know that," because you can say, "I send that info to your commlink." That's the part of SR4 that I find masterful.

As an aside, now that I look at it, there on the the same page as the skinlink is the sentence, "All are wireless-equipped." (Boyle et al. 318) It's silly, but I imagine that this technically includes the skinlink ...
Tarantula
Simple, buy some earbuds, plug 'em directly into the communication commlink. Turn off their wifi. Or, your teammates could alternately just send you text messages.

By the way, the quote you're quoteing from pg 318 just says all the basic accessories come wireless equipped. I.E. your ar gloves come with wireless communication ability, so you don't have to plug them into the commlink. Same with the rest of the stuff. Since skinlink is something listed there, assuming stuff comes with it is the same as assuming that your commlink came with ar gloves, trodes, and a satellite link. They're all listed under accessories, of course it comes with them! I mean, thats why they have their own individual nuyen costs. Oh, and its gotta come with glasses too, i mean, those are even cheaper than the skinlink!
mdynna
So "all" you're vulnerable to is opening yourself up for a complete set of false signals to be relayed to your teammates? Oh boy, would I have fun with your character if he did some scouting on his own.
Tarantula
I said its a good way for the combat monkey to be (particularly because they're the ones most likely to be hacked by someone else). As far as scouting would go, keep your wifi off, record everything, then play it back for everyone else when you get back. Most likely, the combat monkey isn't the one relaying AR info back to everyone constantly.

I'm curious to what sort of false signals you would be sending to the team though, as I said, most communication would be done over the mic, so without being able to replicate my voice you lose that and now only have basic camera data to relay. At best, you can edit one image of the video feed per action. Or loop it so it is always displaying the same video feed. Or turn off the camera? Yeah, those are really gonna hurt.
Shrike30
Hack in and start looping his radio, video, and biomonitor. What does your team get on the other end? "Sector's still clear, I got nothing here." What they can't see is your heart rate spiking, the fact that you're 30 yards to the left of where you were earlier, and that you're yelling for help on your radio as loud as you can, because there's 4 guys shooting at you with suppressed SMGs.
Serbitar
QUOTE (mdynna)
QUOTE (X-)
Someone with Image link and a Smartgun system need never hook up either to their commlink if they don't want to.
This is where I disagree. I think that for any sort of information-passing equipment to work, the Commlink must be present to act as a "network hub." I believe this was the intention of the entire SR4 Matrix. You can no longer "directly link" 2 devices together (like Smartlink and Cybereyes). You can force someone to have to go through your Commlink, and you can link Commlinks in a "closed network" to force an enemy to go through this Commlink (your group's Hacker/TM), but you can never make a device totally inaccessible.

Although this may not seem "logical" if you are relating it to RL tech, it's a character inclusion mechanic. Namely, "pure" Hackers can do something in Combat now. They need not cower in the corner and wait for the Sammie and Adept to clean things up. It is this idea, IMO, that was the best change in SR4. That is why in my SR4 world, you can no more make yourself "un-hackable" than you can make yourself "un-shootable" or "un-magicable." Every character type gets their chance to contribute in a combat situation.

100% agree.
Serbitar
QUOTE (Shrike30)
The problem with that rig is that you lose a lot of the ability to use the stuff a PAN is really cool for. Stuff like sharing your optical feed from your cybereyes, having a biomonitor let your teammates know you're alive, having the group's hacker give you an overlay of the blueprints of the building and putting the locations of the guards on it... and you've basically gone back to having an ID and a headset radio.

The reason a lot of runners have hackable commlinks (with or without running a dual-commlink rig) is because a ghosted-PAN, heavily reinforced commlink will more than likely provide you with a lot more good than harm in the long run. All those little +1s to +3s from AR information fed in by the rest of your group can really add up, and not having to do things like Observe in Detail for a teammate to relay you information (like, when he's unconcious and you don't know where the bullet is) can really make you a lot more effective in combat.

ANother very good statement, this should really be stressed.
Tarantula
QUOTE (Shrike30)
Hack in and start looping his radio, video, and biomonitor. What does your team get on the other end? "Sector's still clear, I got nothing here." What they can't see is your heart rate spiking, the fact that you're 30 yards to the left of where you were earlier, and that you're yelling for help on your radio as loud as you can, because there's 4 guys shooting at you with suppressed SMGs.

Problem with that, is that say they ask you a question, you either get an odd response that is spoofed onto the radio from something you said before. Or you don't respond, since they're controlling your mic input, letting your team know something is up. Alternately, your team sees you moving, but your video isn't. They'd know something is up. Regardless, doing such things is just as easy to do with someone with a regular PAN setup instead, except then you can do things like turning off their vision modes, ejecting their smartgun clips, and so on. So it isn't any more vulnerable to being hacked, but a hacker has less options for messing with things.
Aaron
QUOTE (Tarantula)
Problem with that, is that say they ask you a question, you either get an odd response that is spoofed onto the radio from something you said before. Or you don't respond, since they're controlling your mic input, letting your team know something is up.

The Intercept Traffic action (Boyle et al. 224) allows the hacker to block and substitute traffic coming from the node. Sniffer + Hacking vs. Firewall + System to make it look like it's legit. Computer or Hacking + Edit to fake transmissions from the target.

The hacker's job is electronic warfare, and that includes information warfare. The razorguy is just not going to be as good at it as the hacker. A well-rounded team has magical support; why shouldn't it need electronic support as well?
Tarantula
Along with the Intercept Traffic action, there is the great line of "Note that this action only applies to traffic passing through a wired medium; for wireless traffic, see Intercepting Wireless Signal, p. 225."

You should be running in hidden mode, so initially they have to find you, which is a EW+Scan (4) test, and we'll assume you're scanning just the sammy so the threshold doesn't jump to +15 because you're not sure who has it.

So, we now go to that intercepting a wireless signal... From there, you can make edit actions to block out or add in your own. Also, sidenote: you need to decrypt it first, which takes quite a bit of time in and of itself. And its very cheap and easy to have encryption on your commlink.

So, edit action. I don't think it'd be too hard to have your radio output looped to your earbuds, simply have them play the output from your commlink as well as input. So, you do your edit action, which examples are "one line of print" or "one image". More extensive tests require longer periods and/or an extended test. I'd say a "Nothing here" edit would be doable in the realm of a single complex action, and since I doubt they have biometric readers to make sure that its your voice, you could make it sound similar enough to fool people. Ok, so you then hear your voice in your own earbuds say "nothing here" when you just said "theres 3 trolls and a mage". Thats when you hit the reboot button on your commlink. Once it comes up, you know you have a few seconds before the hacker can break back in through the firewall, so you use that time to inform your hacker that there was one in your commlink, and relay the info of the 3 trolls and mage back to your team. Or tell your team that if your commlink goes down, you detected a hacker and hit the reboot, and your hacker can jump into your commlink to deal with him next time.
Serbitar
You hear your voice in your own earbuds??? If so, why would you hear anything else than what you have said? I really do not get it.
You can reboot the node without making a test? There are rules for this.
NightHaunter
QUOTE (mdynna)
Why is it that players never take cover, stand out in the open fire full-auto from the hip, then complain that SR is too hard because they die all the time?

Oh I know! Because they're used to some other popular RPG where the game penalizes you for creativity in combat. The best way to fight any fight is to "stand and whack." Will we never be rid of the mental limitations that other game has imposed on us?

I doubt it.
I share your loathing for the Tetrahedron based game as well.
TBRMInsanity
QUOTE (FanGirl)
QUOTE (TBRMInsanity @ May 30 2006, 12:53 PM)
Hackers in SR4 would almost never go into electronic silence and TMs can't.

TMs can go into silence by going into an area with no wireless access, but they tend to get all nervous and fidgety when they do so. I have decided that, if my TM should have to go into a dead zone, she'll go from slightly jittery to batshit insane in the space of a few hours.

Going into electronic silence and not getting a signal are two different things. The TM can't "turn off" his/her abilities. It would be as simple as "turning off" your eye sight.
TBRMInsanity
The problem with skinlink is it only stops jamming. It doesn't stop infiltration. So if someone is trying to hack your commlink, your skinlink is useless.
Aaron
Not to mention that someone with a sensitive enough (directional) antenna would be able to pick up on the signals on the skinlink. Your skin isn't very well insulated against ... um ... whatever reverse induction is called (note to self: no more ice cream breakfasts).
Serbitar
reverse induction = radiation
Aaron
QUOTE (Serbitar)
reverse induction = radiation

Yeah, that's what I thought, but it didn't sound right.

Anyway, a skinlink could theoretically be picked up by its radiation, and could in theory have signals interfered with by induction. Is there anybody more geeky than me in physics that knows what it would take to induce a current on skin?
kigmatzomat
IANA EE but IIRC the blurbs on the skin-conduction communication it was micro wattage, low voltages and low currents. The EMF was supposed to be inconsequential.

Plus, wouldn't any radiated signal be distorted by the changing shape of the antenna (aka the person moving) as well as shielded by clothing/body armor? I'd think the electrical resistance mod would be a metallized fabric which makes it essentially a faraday cage.
mdynna
Now you're getting way too RL for Shadowrun.
-X-
QUOTE (TBRMInsanity)
The problem with skinlink is it only stops jamming. It doesn't stop infiltration. So if someone is trying to hack your commlink, your skinlink is useless.

That is just not true. If you aren't sending or receiving wireless signals then in order to hack into your system a hacker must physically and personally intervene in the system.

Just because you are sending and receiving wireless signals does not give a hacker unlimited access to your system, they only get access (after several tests to 'break' into your wireless signal) to whatever data type you are sending and receiving. If that happens to be full networking then the hacker rejoices and starts that commlink hack they're dying to do. If that is just sound, image and biodata, then that is all you can mess with.

It seems like people are taking the unified systems (which by the way is a great idea) a step or so too far. Maybe they're trying to make the Matrix and Magic work in EXACTLY the same way? But they simply don't work the same way.

The average joe can't buy a set of foci and do magic with them like just anyone with a commlink and some skills can hack.

There are no such things as Technoshaman Adepts or Techno Adepts.

There is no magical equivalent to a highly cybered individual.

They aren't the same.

Just because you always NEED a magic user to provide protection from magical threats, does not mean you always NEED a Hacker/Technomancer to provide protection from Matrix threats. You can greatly reduce your Matrix vulnerability by greatly reducing your Matrix advantages.

Having computer power on your person does not mean any Technomancer nearby can magically infiltrate your network. You have to be using your network in such a way to provide them access. (Which admittedly would often be the case.)

Then again in my vision of Shadowrun 4 most successful shadowrunners have at least two commlinks. One for actual use that is usually in stealth mode, and one boring blank dud that is never in stealth mode but neither is used for anything more interesting than picking up bar tabs, mapquesting nightclubs and enough porn to make it seem like it's your real commlink. (So lots.)
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