...and most of them involve trying to prepare food or open packages

Seriously, though. Advantages of a knife over a gun? Er. Less collateral damage; in close quarters you're less likely to hit a friend with a knife than a gun. If you're already in arm's reach of the enemy before you've got the weapon deployed, you might be better off with a knife, as it's easier to grapple for an opponent's gun than their knife...but that pre-supposes that they've closed with you before you could use the gun, which naturally stacks the deck. And even at that point, some training in gun retention probably evens the odds again.

Knives are cheap and reliable. They have no moving parts. Even a small knife, one you could carry every day and never think twice about, is a handy thing to have (in a fight or out of one). Accidents while handling or cleaning your knife are rarely fatal. But you know, there's a reason guns are the primary weapon of the era...they're the best thing going.

As far as I'm concerned, the main reason (in the real world) to train with a knife is that if you AREN'T someone who carries a gun, you're far more likely to be able to come up with a knife after 30 seconds of frantic searching in a random location of your choice than you are a pistol. Of course, by that logic, you might be better off learning single-stick.

I'm told that if a semi-automatic pistol is fired with an object pressed against the muzzle (like someone's hand), the mechanism won't cycle properly and the slide will need to be manually pulled back to clear it. I'm dubious about taking advantage of that as a deliberate technique, however....

On the other hand, IF you get your hand(s) onto someone else's pistol without them shooting you, you've got better leverage than they do for controlling the weapon...in part because you're in a position to apply the strength of most of your arm solely agaisnt the strength of their wrist. Also, the arrangement of the trigger guard on most pistols is such that in the process of twisting it out of their grip, you also break their trigger finger.

All of that, however, assumes the person with the pistol hasn't trained in defending against this sort of situation. In a way, it's less of a weakness in the pistol as a weapon and more of an oversight in the way many casual users are trained.

Disclaimer: I have never and have no intention of ever trying this on a live weapon. I /have/ done it in training against a Glock-replica Airsoft, so I know it's possible to do it without being shot in the unlikely event that you manage to be close enough. I really can't emphasize enough that I'm only saying it's POSSIBLE to take a pistol away from someone in close combat, and that it's a situation many people who use pistols aren't well-trained to handle. I'm not claiming it's a good idea....

Whoops, missed this part. Yeah, that's why I limited my point about knives being easier weapons to scrounge up from the environment to people who don't habitually carry a firearm. Train with the most effective weapon you're likely to have available. If you carry a pistol as part of your daily routine, it's clear which weapon that is going to be

" kind of risky" sounds like an understatement

As far as the takeaway goes...augh. It's been two years since I did this. I went looking to see if my old teacher had a video clip of this one up, but he doesn't appear to. I don't know that I'm going to be able to give a satisfactory explanation, but I'll give it a try. My experience of being on the receiving end was that I couldn't hang on to the thing (even in opposition to someone weaker than me) without pulling it back in against my body, laid across my lower torso - which, at least according to THIS teacher, is where it should have been in the first place in this sort of situation. I suspect opinions differ on that; it feels like it's probably a religious issue.

Anyway. For one of them, there was mechanical advantage - the length of the barrel as a lever arm, in a direction where the grip didn't provide the same (because the motion was more of a rotation around an axis parallel to the grip). There were also 'the wrist doesn't bend that way' issues. I'm sorry this is so vague - I just can't remember the details of the motion well enough to describe them right verbally.

I accept your apology and agree to disagree. I would like to apologize for coming off as rude myself. I also would like to thank you for being mature about this. That's something folks can't seem to do online. I apologize once again.

Part of it, I think, is that the attacker has the advantage of foreknowledge. You know precisely how the gun will be held, because the grip only accomodates one hand position. So you can practice several different techniques against that one scenario. As the person who's holding the gun, you have no reliable guess as to how someone will decide to grab it. You either need to react on the fly, prepare a host of counters for all of the possible attacks, or (and I think this is the winner) practice ONE technique that works against as many of them as possible...namely, pull the gun into a sheltered position and retreat, avoiding the grab in the first place. Oh, and then shoot them

It follows that grappling for someone else's gun is going to be most effective either with surprise, or in situations where they CAN'T retreat.

And actually, as a vague attempt at being on-topic...how do the SR4 rules handle trying to take someone's weapon away? I don't remember noticing rules for it on a quick read-through, but I could have overlooked it; I don't have my book handy at the moment.

You skipped 'desperate'

IMHO, this is the sort of thing you only try if you're closer to the shooter than you are to cover (or you're not alone, and you're buying an opening for a companion to escape / take cover), and you've already decided you're probably going to get shot. At that point, you might as well be shot while taking your best try, rather than being shot standing still.

Whoops! Now that you mention it, I do remember that. I was distracted by the other Called Shot options.

"Oh, you wanted to shoot him somewhere that would HURT? Why didn't you say so?"