The invae/Bug City story never held my interest much. It was just kind of "ooh, they're aliens that can be in human disguise!" kind of thing.
I loved the Deus and Renraku storyline, by far my favorite.
The Horrors are okay, nothing great. I get tired of "Oh it's that evil aztechnology again, tsk tsk". It just seems dumb that they would be the only ones doing it.
Full Version: Favorite/Worst Metaplots
Sometimes the atmosphere of "you're caught up in things bigger than you, that you may never understand" can be good too. Especially within the dystopian cyberpunk genre that a lot of SR games take place in.
| QUOTE (Lagomorph) |
| The Horrors are okay, nothing great. I get tired of "Oh it's that evil aztechnology again, tsk tsk". It just seems dumb that they would be the only ones doing it. |
Who said that the Azzies are the only ones doing so?
| QUOTE (Samaels Ghost) |
| Dankwalther's stash? That's a cool idea.... |
There is a line in the Shadowtalk in System Failure about not all his money nessasarily being accounted for. Although most of his assets had already been seized by the CC by the time the orbital hammer dropped, with as much cash as he was suppose to have even the crumbs of scattered untraceable slush funds would be substantial to any runners.
| QUOTE (Grinder) | ||
Who said that the Azzies are the only ones doing so? |
Apep what?
| QUOTE (Samaels Ghost) |
| I don't think I should have to buy Earthdawn source books to understand what SR's important NPCs are talking about. |
Behold the powers of the Horror named Marr'Khe'Ting.
My favorite metaplot-lines have been the Invae (Double Exposure/Queen Euphoria/UB/Bug City) and the Deus plotline.
The problem I've had with more recent plotlines all boils down to trying to do too much in too few books. The Invae plotline simmered over at least four game books and a really good novel. The Deus plotline developed through a couple novels, a small part of the Blood in the Boardroom plot, Renraku Arcology: Shutdown, Brainscan, Threats 2, and System Failure. I don't as much like the books like Year of the Comet that try to handle too much in just a single book. It feels like you've been tossed into the deep-end blind-folded and even the good ideas in a book like that don't have the space to be developed. I had some of the same mixed feelings about System Failure: I thought some of the ideas we had for it were terrific, but there was just too much going on there and you couldn't spend enough wordcount on developing any one of those plots.
The problem I've had with more recent plotlines all boils down to trying to do too much in too few books. The Invae plotline simmered over at least four game books and a really good novel. The Deus plotline developed through a couple novels, a small part of the Blood in the Boardroom plot, Renraku Arcology: Shutdown, Brainscan, Threats 2, and System Failure. I don't as much like the books like Year of the Comet that try to handle too much in just a single book. It feels like you've been tossed into the deep-end blind-folded and even the good ideas in a book like that don't have the space to be developed. I had some of the same mixed feelings about System Failure: I thought some of the ideas we had for it were terrific, but there was just too much going on there and you couldn't spend enough wordcount on developing any one of those plots.
| QUOTE (Demonseed Elite) |
| My favorite metaplot-lines have been the Invae (Double Exposure/Queen Euphoria/UB/Bug City) and the Deus plotline. |
I'm shocked.
| QUOTE |
| I had some of the same mixed feelings about System Failure: I thought some of the ideas we had for it were terrific, but there was just too much going on there and you couldn't spend enough wordcount on developing any one of those plots. |
Like Aftershocks (Only, you know, written by someone who would actually consider what kind of Hell a military coup within the former US would cause)?
The New Revolution coup could easily have been its own plotline, it's own book, or even something that developed over multiple books. As could any of the three main tracks of System Failure.
Not only does cramming so many things into one plotline give you less room to develop them, but it also means you're going to have a real hard time developing new plots that don't start to look a lot like ones you've already touched on before.
Not only does cramming so many things into one plotline give you less room to develop them, but it also means you're going to have a real hard time developing new plots that don't start to look a lot like ones you've already touched on before.
| QUOTE (Demonseed Elite) |
| The New Revolution coup could easily have been its own plotline, it's own book, or even something that developed over multiple books. As could any of the three main tracks of System Failure. |
Agreed. I was aiming for a much bigger section with the original (and radically different) pitch.
One can only hope for the future...
| QUOTE (Demonseed Elite) |
| The New Revolution coup could easily have been its own plotline, it's own book, or even something that developed over multiple books. As could any of the three main tracks of System Failure. Not only does cramming so many things into one plotline give you less room to develop them, but it also means you're going to have a real hard time developing new plots that don't start to look a lot like ones you've already touched on before. |
I actually think that a lot of room was left with the New Revolution for it to keep going, in fact I got the feeling their move in System Failure may only have been the tip of the iceberg. As for rehashed plot elements, that doesn't bother me too much. History has a way of repeating otself over and over again, it almost seems like it's time for another UB like Bug Plot.
I still find it hilarious and disturbing that the savior of the UCAS/federal government uttered the favored quote of a whole swath of RL right-wing anti-government "activists" (to be kind) who hate the government and whom, in SR, would want to kill her and burn down Washington.
Hmmm... yeah, I loved the New Revolution when it was presented in the Threats 2 book. I liked it so much that the background for my later characters was to have sympathetic ties to it. I just loved the concept that there's groups that want to bring back the former glory of the US.
It wasn't exactly novel that such a group would exist. It was a nice tie-in to the Alamos 20K chapter in the first Threats, which is probably my favorite along with the Bugs chapter (Lofwyr's being too much like "Hey, let's put Keyser Soze in SR").
It's one of the few things Jon Szeto has written that I can honestly say I like.
It was, IMO, counterproductive to give it so little space in SF.
It's one of the few things Jon Szeto has written that I can honestly say I like.
It was, IMO, counterproductive to give it so little space in SF.
| QUOTE (stevebugge @ Aug 1 2006, 06:03 PM) |
| History has a way of repeating otself over and over again, it almost seems like it's time for another UB like Bug Plot. |
On a completely unrelated topic, who are these Horizon folks?
But I'm not sure how bugs could pull off a "close" relationship to Tir. You'd think that the Daisy Tossers would have at least a semi-reliable way of ferreting out good merges among allies.
| QUOTE (SL James) | ||||
Apep what? |
Uhm. Sorry? (non-native english speaker here)
| QUOTE (PBTHHHHT) |
| Hmmm... yeah, I loved the New Revolution when it was presented in the Threats 2 book. I liked it so much that the background for my later characters was to have sympathetic ties to it. I just loved the concept that there's groups that want to bring back the former glory of the US. |
Same here
I could somehow understand the people who would like to re-establish the USA "in all its glory" and so tried to play a patriotic character with ties to it.
| QUOTE (SL James) |
| I still find it hilarious and disturbing that the savior of the UCAS/federal government uttered the favored quote of a whole swath of RL right-wing anti-government "activists" (to be kind) who hate the government and whom, in SR, would want to kill her and burn down Washington. |
Angela Colloton is a figure in Shadowrun I have a serious desire to use and develop, but I just haven't seen any opportunity to yet.
There's really so much that could be done there.
| QUOTE (Demonseed Elite) |
| The problem I've had with more recent plotlines all boils down to trying to do too much in too few books. |
Amen, brother! So many intriguing possibilities, but never enough actual info to really do anything. I wonder sometimes if some of that's due to trying to keep the feel of an ED crossover without actually having an ED crossover to fall back on.....
| QUOTE (AngelWuff) |
| wouldn't every TM have a datajack and thus -1 resonance |
It depends on the character's backstory. Sure most otakus are prolly TMs now, but what about the ones who got caught in the Matrix & woke up able to see & use AR? Especially the younger generation.....
The bugs have always been my favorite, if not just for the fact they invoke the feeling of Alien(s). I got into SR after UB, QE, and DE were out (and was unaware of them), but right before Bug City was released. That book blew my mind. I think everyone in my group (we rotate GMing here and there) ran at least one BC campaign. In fact someone is sitting around right now waiting for Street Magic to come out so we can do it all over again. We even took a trip to Chicago one time (years ago) and only used the map in the back of Bug City to navigate around. Bless those FASA folks for making a realistic map
hooray cermak and ashland (btw there was some mexican/latino festival going on on the street when we went there, fun stuff.)
hooray cermak and ashland (btw there was some mexican/latino festival going on on the street when we went there, fun stuff.)
| QUOTE (Demonseed Elite @ Aug 1 2006, 05:28 PM) | ||
Angela Colloton is a figure in Shadowrun I have a serious desire to use and develop, but I just haven't seen any opportunity to yet. There's really so much that could be done there. |
We need to talk.
| QUOTE (Grinder) | ||||
Uhm. Sorry? (non-native english speaker here) |
The Apep Consortium shares a lot of qualities that suggest it picked up where Aztech/Darke took off.
Of course, I also subscribe to the theory that the more "active" members of DIVE have been, willingly or unwillingly, involved in activities related to the Cult of the Great Hunter. BTW, Secret Societies of Barsaive. Great book for SR. Especially since certain groups like the Songbirds already exist in SR now.
| QUOTE |
| We need to talk. |
I can always be PMed here.
| QUOTE |
| The Apep Consortium shares a lot of qualities that suggest it picked up where Aztech/Darke took off. |
There's much more on this and related topics in SoLA. Gah, I wish we'd find some way to release that already.
I'm sure there are. And, yes, I would like that book as well.
i missed most of the bug metaplot--or, rather, i got all of it, all at once, so there wasn't much suspense to it. i do like the latests twist, though, with Ares (finally) sitting down and figuring out how to turn a profit off the whole business.
Is what I hear about Ares cutting a deal with the Invae true? Where is that stated?
Threats 2. The chapter titled Betrayal.
they're not cutting a deal, they're capturing queens and shamans and forcing them to do Ares' bidding. it's in Threats 2.
| QUOTE (Samaels Ghost) |
| But this whole Horrors thing is Earthdawn stuff. I want to play Shadowrun and I don't think I should have to buy Earthdawn source books to understand what SR's important NPCs are talking about. |
Actually, the Horrors originated in Shadowrun. Bottled Demon, the original Horrors adventure, wa released long before Earthdawn. Earthdawn simply took them and flesed them out. In Bottled Demon the Horrors were a mysterious and unseen force that only acted through the corrupted artifact.
| QUOTE (Dr. Dodge) |
| The bugs have always been my favorite, if not just for the fact they invoke the feeling of Alien(s). I got into SR after UB, QE, and DE were out (and was unaware of them), but right before Bug City was released. That book blew my mind. I think everyone in my group (we rotate GMing here and there) ran at least one BC campaign. In fact someone is sitting around right now waiting for Street Magic to come out so we can do it all over again. We even took a trip to Chicago one time (years ago) and only used the map in the back of Bug City to navigate around. Bless those FASA folks for making a realistic map hooray cermak and ashland (btw there was some mexican/latino festival going on on the street when we went there, fun stuff.) |
SR killed my hometown! Give me back my hometown!
hey you got it back more or less now 
| QUOTE (mfb @ Aug 1 2006, 09:19 PM) |
| they're not cutting a deal, they're capturing queens and shamans and forcing them to do Ares' bidding. it's in Threats 2. |
Not cutting deal, but the chapter does leave it a bit open ended as to the entirety of the dynamics of what is going on, and how it will end. With speculation about the length of time that the invae and their shamans will be successfully fully subverted, or if it is actually a rogue Ares division to some extent that is already under invae influence. Not completely unknown to the higher ups, but operating outside initial parameters and proper chain of command.
| QUOTE (Demonseed Elite @ Aug 1 2006, 04:57 PM) |
| The problem I've had with more recent plotlines all boils down to trying to do too much in too few books. |
That's pretty much what I was getting at with my comments about Dankwalther. The way he happened was pretty much "Whoop, there he is!" Then "Whoop, there he isn't!" There really wasn't enough words to build him up to being a credible threat to the storied dynamic duo of Richard Villiers and Miles Lanier, especially given the tough row it was to hoe to start with.
The real tough part going forward at this point is going to be loading up the pipeline to get to the payoff down the road. The current lack of novels doesn't help because in the past they really helped build this stuff. Novels being great because they have total word counts that far outstrip the source books, even the fluff ones.
So they did discontinue the new novel series? I think I read that somewhere....
| QUOTE (Samaels Ghost @ Aug 1 2006, 11:42 PM) |
| So they did discontinue the new novel series? I think I read that somewhere.... |
Those novels are for the [discontinuned] Wizkids HeroClix Shadowrun line. So it is all pre-Crash 2.0 (early 2060's), therefore out of sync with the RPG's current timeline.
| QUOTE (SL James) |
| The Apep Consortium shares a lot of qualities that suggest it picked up where Aztech/Darke took off. |
Ah, now I feel so stupid - but this name doesn't come to my mind. Yeah, Apep is great, one of the ral badass threats that haven't been used too much in canon but has much potential.
| QUOTE (SL James) |
| Of course, I also subscribe to the theory that the more "active" members of DIVE have been, willingly or unwillingly, involved in activities related to the Cult of the Great Hunter. BTW, Secret Societies of Barsaive. Great book for SR. Especially since certain groups like the Songbirds already exist in SR now. |
One of the best ED-books, no questions asked. It's a grat supplement for intrigue and features many really dangerous cults (Holders Of Trut = Seraphim/ Cross or the Hand Of Corruption = Winternight without the Norse mythology).
DIVE seems to be influenced by many power groups, including one or more Horror Cults, yeah.
| QUOTE (Valentinew) | ||
Amen, brother! So many intriguing possibilities, but never enough actual info to really do anything. I wonder sometimes if some of that's due to trying to keep the feel of an ED crossover without actually having an ED crossover to fall back on..... |
As long as hope still exists...
| QUOTE (JongWK) | ||
Agreed. I was aiming for a much bigger section with the original (and radically different) pitch. |
Like to share your original idea(s)?
Yes. Please do. 
"On my signal, unleash hell."
| QUOTE (Grinder @ Aug 2 2006, 05:51 AM) |
| Like to share your original idea(s)? |
I'd love to, but I'd have to:
a) Check again to see if proposals are included in the NDA.
b) Consider if some of those ideas could be salvaged for SR4's future books.
Material that they didn't purchase as part of the word count doesn't really belong to them and so you could pretty much release it (assuming it doesn't use material they do own or reference material they own but haven't published). But if you release it as fan-made, non-canon stuff, you basically can never use it as published, canon material.
Which is why I never put out any of my many brainstorm ideas until I'm pretty damn sure they'll never be used in print.
Which is why I never put out any of my many brainstorm ideas until I'm pretty damn sure they'll never be used in print.
| QUOTE (Demonseed Elite) |
| Material that they didn't purchase as part of the word count doesn't really belong to them and so you could pretty much release it (assuming it doesn't use material they do own or reference material they own but haven't published). But if you release it as fan-made, non-canon stuff, you basically can never use it as published, canon material. |
Yup. I keep looking at the stuff and think "but we can use this later!"
Freelancers: Gaming's equivalent of scrap-book ladies.
Sigged!
| QUOTE (Brahm) | ||
Those novels are for the [discontinuned] Wizkids HeroClix Shadowrun line. So it is all pre-Crash 2.0 (early 2060's), therefore out of sync with the RPG's current timeline. |
Not entirely true... I'm reading Aftershock now, and withing the first couple of pages they start talking about a Farlight Caliban and AR. I think they moved up the timeline for that book (and maybe the 6th) Only the first 3 books dealt with anything that I had seen coming out for the WK Duels line (I had seen the production run through series 4)
I think Drops of Corruption was the last pre-Crash 2.0 book. Aftershock definitely is set in the 70's with a pretty good incorporation of AR. Good read.
| QUOTE (FanGirl) | ||
SR killed my hometown! Give me back my hometown! |
I was really pissed at the double-whammy Chicago got as well (first the Loop goes downhill, then the entire city? WTF!), but I've come to love the prospect of bughunts. No other city has the urban chaos that Chicago was given, and while I wish it still had the grand significance of other megacities like NYC, Seattle, and Denver, it is a great location to play in.
Back during high school, I did a recreation of the city after the CZ was lifted, wherein (as I had no knowledge of Strain-III) Lofwyr essentially bought the CZ out wholesale, subletting it as needed, and with a combination of magic and tech, essentially revitalized the entire area. Let's just say that IBM Park, the Saeder-Krupp Navy Pier Arcology, and Little Earth, Inc's hermetic headquarters were just a few of my changes that shifted the downtown back towards the traditional headquarters.
Obviously, the UB/Invae has been my favorite metaplot.
The worst metaplot in my opinion has been the Tir and ED-related plots, as they mention these grandiose figures who seemingly have a ton of influence and history behind them, but a) give no information regarding their backgrounds and b) don't detail what connections these characters have. Granted, I love the dragons and IEs and the concept behind the Tirs, but the people they bring up gives little to work with.
| QUOTE (Caine Hazen) | ||||
Not entirely true... I'm reading Aftershock now, and withing the first couple of pages they start talking about a Farlight Caliban and AR. I think they moved up the timeline for that book (and maybe the 6th) Only the first 3 books dealt with anything that I had seen coming out for the WK Duels line (I had seen the production run through series 4) |
Interesting. Thanks for the correction.
i think i recall something about them dropping the HeroClix-based novels. not sure, though. might have just bee wishful thinking. Shadowrun isn't about immature stuff, like toys, it's about lesbian elves with gigantic boobs!
| QUOTE (JongWK) | ||
Yup. I keep looking at the stuff and think "but we can use this later!" |
Thinking of all the good stuff that'll never see the light of the day....
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