Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Favorite/Worst Metaplots
Dumpshock Forums > Discussion > Shadowrun
Pages: 1, 2, 3
Samaels Ghost
I've seen a little bit of talk about the particular metaplots in SR in other threads. Being a newbie to the SR universe I'm not familiar with all the source material and don't have the moolah to go out and find all the source books. I have come across some pretty weird metaplots and important NPCs that strike me as odd considering the cyberpunk setting. Atzlan's blood magic tinkering fits the theme nicely but all the characters involved behind the scenes are a little contrived. Immortal elves, Dragons, and a whole mess of pretty direct Earthdawn tie-ins. Why? It just doesn't feel like it fits with the cyberpunk setting, IMO.

I'm curious what others think about the various happenings of the SR universe. Evil AI's, cults with nukes, overbearing Immortal Elves and Dragons. What are your favorite metaplots and themes? What are the worst ideas introduced to SR? Anything that just doesn't make sense/ is corny I would like to know about in advance so that I don't buy source books that only introduce weak plots.

Thanks for suggestions and input in advance biggrin.gif
X-Kalibur
It's always been more than just Cyberpunk, its a blending of Cyberpunk with Fantasy.
Samaels Ghost
I know that. it's just that some stuff works well in a high fantasy world and some stuff works well in cyberpunk. I'm cool with magic and what not, but Dragons and Immortal elves are pushing it. IMO. No complaints about anything then?
SL James
Winternight never struck me as particularly feasible or, you know, good. On one hand, it's mostly gone now. On the other, it played way too large a role in the metaplot and we're stuck with it.
emo samurai
Yeah; they're just a cheesy, "Slap mythology on it and it'll look sorta good" kind of thing.
Samaels Ghost
What about Dankwalther and the whole Thor Drop thing? Was that justified/explained well?
Frag-o Delux
First you would have to start with what silly or weak metaplots were introduced into Earthdawn because of Shadowrun. Seeing that Shadowrun was first published 4 years ahead of Earthdawn. And from conversations from older SR developers they seen the rich history of Shadowrun and decided to use that to make Earthdawn.

I dont know, making Immprtal elves behind every advance of human kind even during periods of time when magic was so low seems weak, but then again it may not actually be canon that they were, just that people here try to make it out to be that way. I have never read they are behind everything in any sourcebooks, I dont read novels.

But saying Immortal elves and Dragons are pushing the boundries of a weak metaplot is strange seeing that they were always in the game since day one. The continued increase in importance and power of these beings maybe wearing thin, but they themselves arent that much of a stretch in the game of Shadowrun.

Personally I think the whole second world wide matrix crash and rebirth with all new technology and subculture in less then fives years to be really weak. I mean the first major network crash wipes out most of the worlds records which leads to the new SIN system and tons of other world changes and it took years to recover if it really did recover. Then in 2065 it crashes again and we come out better for it in less then 5 years? Then a whole new subculture and infrastructure built around this new tech is in place? Not only that, but you also have people that are so familiar with the new tech whole industries and markets are built around it? But then you also have a world where people were so affraid of being spied on and all that stuff, even today with ID theft, to a culture that just broadcasts their personal stuff out to anyone with in 40 feet of them and some places not letting you in if youarent broadcasting? Thats all silly to me.

And how many times is Richard Villers going to lose a AAA corp befor ehe eats a lead breakfast or the Corporate Court tells him to go get bent? I have to suspect he lost his second corp to the same will of the same dragon. I guess that would be pushing the metaplot a bit far also.
Samaels Ghost
Okay, maybe the dragons and Im. Elves don't qualify as metaplot, sorry. I have a problem with how much power and influence they have. They're too powerful. Corps having power is fine with me. It adds to the setting. Meddling immortals are just annoying.

I don't know too much about Earthdawn. I only know what's on Ancient History's site. I read the whole Big D Aztlan conference section and didn't really like it. All those egos in one place and the power that they yield...they should do something more constructive with their time. If Big D says that Aztlan is a threat people are going to listen. If other immortals pipe up then something would get done. Governments and even Corps would do something. How did the whole Aztlan metaplot end up? I think I read somewhere that it cooled down....

The reboot of the Matrix in such a short time is pretty unrealistic, i agree. It is almost as if someone was tipped off that such a thing was about to happen. Why are all hardline systems (like public access grids) completely unusable? It seems as if stock piles of old technology would be better to recover from a Crash-situation than new technology that has to be mass produced in the abscence of a stable infrastructure. Do EMPs melt/destroy fiberoptic cables? I'm no expert, so I'm not sure why node wouldn't just get replaced.

Villiers should die.
Frag-o Delux
Fiber wont melt in an EMP but the emitters and controlling equipment would.

Supposedly yeh Azzies were building a bridge to teh metaplanes the Horrors live in, to prematurely bring them over. When big D exploded himself he use some artifact thingy he made (didnt read the novel) and corked the portal. Ending their little plans. So now the Azzies are kind of taking a back seat.

And really I dont think the Immortals have that much power. They control two tiny countries one is in complete shambles, the other was never a power house to begin with. The major names do a lot of things behind the show, like Harlaquin fighting the Horrors, Ehrin now working for the Draco Foundation instead of the Tir. Some of the Dragons do hold sway in some places, but I still dont think they are all that powerful. Sure Lofwyr has a ton of power. But Lung and Ryumyo are mostly gang bosses and do a little corporate meddeling. It was Lofwyr and Dunk that really had the control. Now its Lofwyr and Ghostwalker to an extent. I guess you can argue any of the dragons have a lot of power but really no more then any other person in the world.

When I worked building cellular systems it was funny when a hurrican came through and damaged 23 cell towers. Basically ruining a lot of high priced equipment. It took 3 weeks for the manfacturer to make the things we needed to repair those towers. The makers said they dont store the stuff because it costs money to store the crap. They just make it on order. I can imagine the entire worlds infrastructure taking a giant shit and the world trying to rebuild in less then 5 years in a system like that. Even the company whos equipment I was repairing didnt store the stuff. To save money they had a very small warehouse. In that very small warehouse they stored legacy equipment. Stuff they were scavenging to repair out of date hardware till the new stuff was in place. So they too had no extra equipment "in case of emergency." All this difficulty was after a minor storm, nothing like Katrina and there was no real state infrastructure damage. I mean we all still had electricity, the roads were clear and normal life was barely if effected at all.
hyzmarca
Well, one thing you have to remember is that Dunkie owned a rather sizable chunk of Aztlan. He was on the Aztechnology Board of Directors. Oscuro and his blood mages wielded a great deal of power over the day-to-day operations of Aztechnology but they weren't exactly operating with the knowledge or the permission of the people in charge.

So long as Oscuro was working within Aztechnology, Dunkie could stort of keep an eye on him and make moves to contain him when necessary. If he had been driven underground he just may have been able to make a Bridge without anyone being the wiser. It isn't like just killing him would have done any good, either. He is merely one in a long succession of agents. Should he have died someone else would have replaced him.

Dunkelzahn was pretty adament about not telling people about the Horrors and other things. He didn't think that it would do any good to start a panic so soon after the awakening. Dragons and Immortals live for tens of thousands of years. When they aren't planning decades ahead they're planning centuries ahead.

Oscuro could have brought over some rather powerful and dangerous Horrors with his Bridge, but they would be nothing compared to the Scourge that is to come. The bridge is limited to places with strong mana spikes, after all. It can be detected and contained, not unlike the Chicago CZ with the Bugs. A handful of Named would be able to cut through any containment measures but the hoards of Unnamed would be stoped. When the Scourge comes, there will be no containment. The Horrors will come from everywhere all at once and there will be more of them than any being can possibly count.

The Scourge is thousands of years away but all of the immortals are preparing for it. They are just using the time that they have to build up civilization to the point where it can survive this disaster.

As for the Aztlan and Enemy Metaplots, it was taken care of in Harlequin's Back and the Dragonheart Trilogy. Oscuro no longer has any power in Aztlan and he is cut off from his masters. Aztechnology is just an evil soulless corporation again. The mana spikes are gone so there is nothing to make a bridge from and Dunkelzhan, ressurected as a Free Spirit possessing an amnesiac Cyberzombie that was physically shifted to the metaplanes, is currently standing guard against the Enemy.


In my opinion, Dunkie's assasination/the Dragonheart Trillogy is the weakest of the metaplots. It seems to me that this was just a way to avoid having a big blue dragon as President.
Frag-o Delux
In my opinion, Dunkie's assasination/the Dragonheart Trillogy is the weakest of the metaplots. It seems to me that this was just a way to avoid having a big blue dragon as President.

Thats what you get for letting the players vote. smile.gif
FanGirl
I have very little direct experience with most of the fluff text, but I can say with conviction that the Deus storyline has a special place in my heart. Renraku Arcology: Shutdown was the first SR fluff text I ever read, and it shocked me so thoroughly that I felt compelled to keep reading on. I cannot convey in words how absolutely chilling that book was to me; it basically put me through a shortened version of the emotional rollercoaster I rode when I took a class on the Holocaust during my senior year. (If there are any DSers here who worked on that book, let me just say this to you: notworthy.gif)

Then Emo roped me into his campaign, advised me to play a TM, and threw in a new AI that incorporates elements of Deus' code and has professed an "interest" in my character, so what I read about in Shutdown took on an extra-special significance for me. biggrin.gif FanGirl knows perfectly well that Deus spurred many otaku to commit horrible atrocities in his name, and she's very afraid that this new AI might steer her into perpetrating similar acts.

EDIT: Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that Emo has forbidden me from reading System Failure, because then I'd know too much and he'd have to kill FG. sarcastic.gif
AngelWuff
coolest idea: shadowrun in general ^.~

lesse, I'm personally loving the strange and often creepy ways simsense is used. had a bad day, become someone else on your weekend. I loved the raku story, and system failure was a delightful read for the most part

the bad: ok, seems like a lot, but just me. all these balkanized nations don't always make the most sense... NAN, CAS, ect... the bridge between 3 and 4 is kinda bad. wouldn't every TM have a datajack and thus -1 resonance... eek.gif and the _everything WIFI_ is kinda bad [but downplay it a little]. use of things like wi-fi, rfid, flash mob, and other modern terms seems antiquated if it's 70 years from now...

the super ancient 4th age is interesting, but how does that affect religion, ect...

also, is there even oil left by then... [in my game, it's actually no. it's all hydrogen/electric based on the fusion/microwave power. we'll be nice, assume that synthetic alternatives were made, probably based on vegetative matter or some other psuedo science, yah....

ohyeah, cyberpirates. now that's a fun book for cruising the carribean... *grin* can already see a bunch of bad pirates of the carribean runs....
Grinder
Germany got the worst metaplot ever. Starting with the attempt to re-create the US setting which resulted in a lot of tiny troll kingdoms, dwarven strongholds and similar shit. And let's not start with Berlin...
Some years later new writers tried to repair it, but failed miserably - childish would-be-anarchist. Pfff...

Further I dislike Lofwyr running a whole AAA in his head, the Dragonheart Trilogy and the metaplot presented in it and finally the fact that every famous genius out in human history has been an IE in disguise. And some really bad people too.
SL James
QUOTE (Frag-o Delux @ Aug 1 2006, 12:06 AM)
In my opinion, Dunkie's assasination/the Dragonheart Trillogy is the weakest of the metaplots. It seems to me that this was just a way to avoid having a big blue dragon as President.

Thats what you get for letting the players vote. smile.gif

I remember reading something with Mike that said he was going to die no matter what, but they knew from a while out that Dunk was going to win. So in that regard, it wasn't a cop-out. It was just a side effect.

Anyway, I also think the incredible speed at which the Matrix was rebooted and wireless became ubiquitous was pretty wacky. To be at this point I'd have pushed the timeline forward at least another ten years. Or, really, just rebooted the whole timeline Ultimate Shadowrun style.

QUOTE (FanGirl)
(If there are any DSers here who worked on that book, let me just say this to you: notworthy.gif)

Demonseed Elite was one of the people behind the concept for the book. The two authors were both from Shadowland (David Hyatt was the one who created the site back in the early 90s). DE was, however, one of the authors of Brainscan along with Brian and Dave.

And, you have to consider the fact that the otaku part in particular was based on stuff that had immersed Shadowland for at least a year, and after RA: S came out only became stronger for several years until most of the foundation players left. It was one of the most incredible things to see over a dozen players create a whole community that the Otaku in RA: S and Brainscan were based on dealing with their nature, the Deep Resonance, AI, and also the deckers who interacted and fought and mentored them. The Overwatch tribe, for example, was created by another user and the authors turned it into probably the most well-known tribe in SR.

But the best part was that Dave actually ran the Shutdown on Shadowland. If you think the book was sadistic and evil, you have no idea. He (IIRC) also played Puck, and one of the reason it annoys me that they neutered him in SR4 was because of how he was played back in the day.
Witness
Loved Dunkelzahn's Will etc, Deus / the Arcology shutdown, and much of Crash 2.0 (it bedded into my campaign pretty well, mainly because I had Lochost working behind the scenes as the Dissonance- yes I like me my ED/SR crossovers).

I'm with James in not particularly loving Winternight (but hey- they're gone now), and I'm with Frag-o in feeling that something big needs to bring the Villiers cycle to an end.

I've never been a fan of either Tir, although SR4's changes to Tir Tairngire seem like an improvement. And the UK and associated plotlines seem pretty feeble from what I've heard about them, although again it seems like they're nudging canon in the right direction there.

Big fan of new kid Horizon. See lots of mileage there, although I fear too much elaboration may spoil their mystique.
SL James
You can't uncreate something like Winternight. So, no, it's not really "gone" as far as I am concerned. As a terrorist group, it kinda sorta worked within the context of Shadowrun. As an idea, though, I think it could have been done better. Plus, there is the fact that I suspect Steve Kenson wrote the original entry in Threats since the whole Norse mythology and symbolism would appeal to him intellectually. Kind of like how I doubt it was a coincidence that he wrote Deus' icon to be the World Tree, Yggdrasil.

AFAIK, Deus was never supposed to have an unchanging icon. It just... was. It was kind of like dealing with God (hint hint, hence the name Deus) within his Kingdom.

This is probably one of the reasons why Dave and Brian had so much trouble working with him that they eventually quit SR altogether.

I'm not fully aware of what they've done to TT since System Failure. I am quite curious to adhere to canon, but I already had my own idea which I like better than what I've read so far.
Witness
Do share.
SL James
It's a bit complicated, and I can't recall offhand because a lot of it is written elsewhere. Also, it does play a hell of an important role in my campaign, stalled as it may be.

[ Spoiler ]
Witness
There always seemed to be so many enigmatic players and convoluted plots on the Tir Tairngire scene I really couldn't keep it all straight in my head! I would favour a simpler set up, but I guess some people love that stuff and TT is as good a place for it as any.

Congrats on the new title, btw.
SL James
Thanks.

It's a shame I can't really reconcile canon with what I decided to do back in November.
Witness
Always the way.

I don't think there's a lot that's been fixed about 2070 TT (though I admit I've pretty much glossed over it for the time being). So there may be some wiggle-room to bring the two versions together. But if not it's not the end of the world, I guess.
SL James
Would you be willing to PM me some more info about it than "it's a puppet democracy with Zincan as the lead puppet"?

Anyway, I'm not sure. I had Zincan killed off.
Witness
I'll try and send you a precis, though I encourage you to buy it.

I know how you feel. I was killing off Brackhaven and Sirianni. Now I have to rethink. Of course nothing's ever quite as it seems in SR, and that goes double for TT. Maybe you didn't kill off Zincan, but a lookalike? *shrug*
Critias
And, well, exactly this sort of situation was why a few of us (me, me, and me) were so very pissed off at the half-a-crumb little teaser BS we got ("Oh, by the way, the High Prince has been kicked out of the Tir, ha ha, imagine the surprise on your 'runners faces when they get this bodyguard gig! Woo!") in System Failure. It wasn't enough for anyone to work with, without going "off the reservation" (like James had to do), and then being stuck trying to backpedal or hand-wave or retcon storylines back in line with canon.

We were given just enough to want to run something, but not enough info to actually run it (with any hope of staying with the metaplot, which is exactly what happens, as it turned out).

Hulk smash!
Witness
This is a problem all round. Same thing with the UK and Pendragon etc.
If only Holostreets would get going, maybe that could be used to help give more of a sense of what's going on in those parts of the world that once had lots of set-up but have since been largely ignored.
Grinder
Could have been worse: you could be given a crappy setting like the german one. wink.gif

My games never took place in TT, so it was easy to ignore what's happening there for the most part.
James McMurray
My favorite has always been the Horrors / Earthdawn tie-in. Ancient Evils ready to spring onto the world have always been good for a change every now and then. Do "typical" shadowruns for a while, but every now and then toss in a bit of "holy shit, that sort of thing shouldn't exist in our world" to spice things up.
Grinder
Or let your runners stumble over some old artifacts (Purifier) and get caught in a treasure hunt with IEs, Dragons, Atleatan Foundation, horrormarked humans and who knows. smile.gif
James McMurray
Mmmm.... horror marks...
Witness
Mmmm.... Artificer...
Grinder
ontopic: best metaplot: ED/SR crossover smile.gif
mfb
ED/SR would have been so much better if it hadn't devolved into good versus evil all the damn time. i mean, the manipulation of IEs and GDs i can get down with (though i wish there was more interaction between them and other major powers, such as megacorps and nations). but it seems like every major ED plot is about the Horrors, and you apparently can't have Horrors without evil plots to take over the world. bo-ring.
James McMurray
Yeah, there should definitely be a few scenarios where a horror just wanted to do it's horror thing, but it seems the mana levels are too low to let the little guys slip through as of yet.
Witness
QUOTE (mfb)
ED/SR would have been so much better if it hadn't devolved into good versus evil all the damn time. i mean, the manipulation of IEs and GDs i can get down with (though i wish there was more interaction between them and other major powers, such as megacorps and nations). but it seems like every major ED plot is about the Horrors, and you apparently can't have Horrors without evil plots to take over the world. bo-ring.

Horrors? Evil? My my no. Merely terribly misunderstood. wink.gif
Samaels Ghost
Horrors and what-not could be cool except that I hardly know anything about them. As far as "holy shit, that sort of thing shouldn't exist in our world" I go with biological experimentation meets Awakened viruses. I've got a whole bunch of creatures with ancestral memories and constantly changing powers so that I don't get bored with their stats. Makes for scary scenarios.
Grinder
QUOTE (mfb)
ED/SR would have been so much better if it hadn't devolved into good versus evil all the damn time. i mean, the manipulation of IEs and GDs i can get down with (though i wish there was more interaction between them and other major powers, such as megacorps and nations). but it seems like every major ED plot is about the Horrors, and you apparently can't have Horrors without evil plots to take over the world. bo-ring.

There are many more choices for villains in ED. Think of the various ork tribes, sky raider clans, the city states, the Therans, the Blood Elves. Most of them aren't simply good or simply evil, they are just power-hungry.

Horrors can get boring pretty soon, yes. That's why I don't use them too often. If the players know that behind every murder, rape or village burned to the ground the scheme of a Horror unfolds it can become boring for them.

Sometimes ordinary people are much much scarier and evil than a Horror.
Samaels Ghost
I much prefer Power Hungry to Good VS Evil.
Grinder
I prefer a mixture of many motives.
hyzmarca
When you have stories about Horrors just doing their Horror thing then you get stories like Worlds Without End. A some people hate it and some people don't. No matter which catagory you fall into you have to admire the fact that Ysthgranthe is not evil for evil's sake. He isn't really evil at all. He's basicly just an obssessed and abusive ex-husband who wants to get back together with his one true love or, at the very least, spite her for leaving him no matter what the cost. You could make Worlds Without End into a Lifetime Original Movie without making a single change to the plot. In fact, Wizkids should consider doing so. I'll attract more women to the game.

So, you see, it is quite possible to do a Horrors plot without making the Horrors unquestionably evil. Emotionaly twisted, yes. Evil, not so much. Love means never having to say you're sorry for the unspeakable tortures that no mortal mind can comprehend.
James McMurray
Given the subjectivity of the word "evil" I believe there are tons of people that would disagree with the idea that abusive stalkers aren't evil, especially amongst the ranks of the abused and stalked.
mfb
QUOTE (Grinder)
There are many more choices for villains in ED. Think of the various ork tribes, sky raider clans, the city states, the Therans, the Blood Elves. Most of them aren't simply good or simply evil, they are just power-hungry.

if that's what had been done with the ED/SR crossover stuff, i'd probably like it more. but except for occasional cameos, most of the time ED mixes with SR, it's some damn fool or another summoning Horrors.

WWE is a rare exception, though i'm not sure Ysthgranthe wouldn't do naughty things even without an external impetus (yeah, external impetus! bite me!). if WWE were the norm, that'd be great. but looking at the ED/SR metaplots as they've been developed so far...
Grinder
QUOTE (mfb)
QUOTE (Grinder)
There are many more choices for villains in ED. Think of the various ork tribes, sky raider clans, the city states, the Therans, the Blood Elves. Most of them aren't simply good or simply evil, they are just power-hungry.

if that's what had been done with the ED/SR crossover stuff, i'd probably like it more. but except for occasional cameos, most of the time ED mixes with SR, it's some damn fool or another summoning Horrors.

Too bad I never had the chance to submit text for the older SR-books where the crossover was part of.
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
No matter which catagory you fall into you have to admire the fact that Ysthgranthe is not evil for evil's sake.

Keep in mind that's something that seperates him from other Horrors - the fact that he almost seems... humane.
Samaels Ghost
But this whole Horrors thing is Earthdawn stuff. I want to play Shadowrun and I don't think I should have to buy Earthdawn source books to understand what SR's important NPCs are talking about.
Brahm
QUOTE (Samaels Ghost @ Jul 31 2006, 08:25 PM)
What about Dankwalther and the whole Thor Drop thing?

In my opinion Dankwalther wasn't suitable for prime time world shaping metaplots from the start. Much like most of Threats 2 the concept was more appropriate for a smaller scale. It just felt really contrived to hand some nobody a fistful of cash and suddenly that made them a viable threat. Maybe if better development of his bloodline had been done, you know the supposed reason for being a benifactor in Dunk's Will? Or if he hadn't been a total putz, and chiphead to boot, to start with.

As such I think the Thor shot was just as good a tie-off as any. It even leaves the plot device of the potential for [relatively] small bits of cash stashed away, so it has that going for it.
Samaels Ghost
Dankwalther's stash? That's a cool idea....
Grinder
QUOTE (Samaels Ghost)
But this whole Horrors thing is Earthdawn stuff. I want to play Shadowrun and I don't think I should have to buy Earthdawn source books to understand what SR's important NPCs are talking about.

That's the drawback of the whole crossover. But for us ED-freaks its great biggrin.gif
James McMurray
QUOTE (Samaels Ghost)
But this whole Horrors thing is Earthdawn stuff. I want to play Shadowrun and I don't think I should have to buy Earthdawn source books to understand what SR's important NPCs are talking about.

You don't. Knowledge of Earthdawn can add more details, but it's just as workable without them. For some GMs (the type that like to meddle) it's even better without any ED knowledge because they get to decide what the ancient threat is. Whatever ED tie-ins arise in the future that are more than just vague statements and ominous clues will be explained as much as necessary.

I don't think FanPro will ever put out a book that requires you to have ED stuff to use it. For instance, the Harlequin adventures can be augmented with ED knowledge, but don't need them, despite being huge stories about the crossover.
Grinder
But knowing who Alachia was or what's the real danger of The Bridge really helps to build up atmosphere.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Dumpshock Forums © 2001-2012