And your post makes it canon.

The Incompetence in Technomancer skills would have passed pre-Synner's post, but unfortunately the Allergy Table has examples and any allergies apart from those As Written in the table is not canon. You see, when I play by the RAW, I play by the RAW.

Are you sure about this? I agree, mundanes have a skill of 0, and since those skills are not usable untrained they can not default. But 0 skill non-defaulting is still not the same thing as unaware. Skill 0 no defaulting is like 8-year-old Timmy trying to fly an airplane. He has no skill. At all. But he's seen planes fly, he knows vaguely what they're capable of (i.e. flying, generally forward), and he's played some video games that are kind of, sort, reminiscent of flying. Basically, he has no skill, there is no default allowed, he has no chance. He could start taking flying lessons and learn, but for now: no.
Being unaware is not 8-year-old Timmy, it is 8-year-old Mambuutuu, from the tiny island of Whatsamafuck in the south pacific. He has Incompetance: Aircraft. He has never heard of airplanes. Were Mambuutuu to encounter an airplane, he would likely hit it with a rock, try to eat it, or worship it. (Perhaps all three, likely in that order) You could start giving him flying lessons, but he has no concept of flight, no concept of a flight-stick, and no concept of moving faster than he can run. It's going to be a LONG time before he can do anything useful. (i.e. must buy off the flaw first)
I thought that mundanes in SR4 were assumed to have 0 skill in non-defaulting magical skills. They can't do them. At all. But they are vaguely aware of what others can do with them and sort of how they might work. Unaware would be my Grandpa waking up one day in SR-2070.
Right? Or am I totally confused and wrong?

Well, you'll have to justify not buying off the flaw, anyway.
Still, I see your point. Fortunately, I don't expect this is an issue that I'll have to deal with in the near future, and if it comes up, then I'll just make something up that seems appropriate to the campaign and character.

That would most likely be knowledge skills...

Actually, while my post on DSF by no means constitutes "canon", I think you can pretty much count on the fact that I know what I'm talking about as one of the developers and one of the people contributing to the FAQ.

I would note that any such "fix" is unlikely to appear in the errata since there is no need to correct anything in the actual text of the rule. RAW places the burden of where to draw the line strictly on your GM's shoulders (via character approval). If he choses to let such a choice of Incompetence into his game that is his decision and might make all the sense in the world in his game (as are the ramifications).

However, I think you can count on something in the FAQ clarifying that the author's intent with Qualities such as Incompetence was that (like other Negative Qualities) it only be applicable when it actually produces a detrimental effect on the character's performance and life (as opposed to a way of milking a few extra build points out of the system). We'll likely suggest that, for game balance, gamemasters consider only allowing people to take Incompentencies on Skills that they would be able to otherwise purchase and that would have an actual impact on play (not necessarily immediate).

What he said. Spellcasting is how to cast a spell; it gives you no information on the theory of spellcasting or even the different categories of spells. For that you need a knowledge skill concerning magical background/theory. For the average person in 2070, that's going to involve a Logic or Intuition default, which means that most of the time they'll get one hit on a magic knowledge test.

"I think I read in People once that magicians in trid are unrealistic because real magicians get tired when they cast spells."

"The only thing I remember from 8th grade history about the Ghost Dance War is that shamans can't summon fire spirits. I wonder why that useless bit of info stuck!"

That sort of thing.

Well, I wouldn't believe there are people today (in 1st and 2nd wolrd countries) that believe that the moon landing was a fake, that science is a bunch of BS, and that the Earth is flat. However, there are such people, though rare.

Also, the example that Moon Hawk gave (of Mambaatu) is a pretty good example of someone completely ignorant of all aspects of technology; he would certainly qualify for Incompetence (Pilot aircraft). There are certainly some of the some people in 2070 that could justifiably take Incompetence (Spellcasting). I would be sure to play that up, though, as a GM, and use it to the characters full disadvantage.

Quite simply put, since one of the developers has stated "intention", I'd be happy to take it as canon. This is one of the advantages that Shadowrun and Dumpshock have over other game forums - that the developers and writers come in and state their intentions and clear the air.

However, given that everything in a GM's game is subject to his approval (if he decides that having a piece of equipment is "too abusive" even if it is within Rating and Availability limits, he can disallow it) I would suggest that the FAQ(especially the SRM FAQ, are you reading this McQ?) makes the intent of Incompetencies clear.

Sure, it's possible for you to go your whole life without ever seeing a spirit. You could grow up and live your life in a Mormon compund with 12 other people, none of whom have magical talent deep in the wilderness of Pueblo territory. You could get born, live your life, and die without ever seeing a spirit or a tridcast that had a spirit in it. Sure, that's possible.

But the first time you see a spirit, you'll know it's not of this world. That's not a property of everyday common knowledge, that's a property of spirits. If you're alive, you're just astrally sensitive enough that a materialized spirit cannot be mistaken for a normal creature no matter what it looks like (unless Realistic Form is involved).

A photo of a spirit miht look like anything (or nothing). But if you're in the presence of spellcasting you can feel it. If you're in the presence of a spirit you'll know. Even if you have an Essence of .01, so long as you're alive these things cannot be hidden from you.

-Frank

I prefer the Hero games forum, where the developer has an open board that takes rules questions and provides answers quickly. Which then end up in the "rules FAQ". But Steve Long writes really fast. . .

Agreed.

That doesn't mean you have to perceive them properly, or remember them immediately after.

Granted, at this point we're getting in to aberrant mental states and such, but it's entirely possible, if not very likely, that someone could be presented with a spirit, and either refuse to acknowledge what they're seeing, or acknowledge it, then immediately block it from their minds afterwards.

Heck, to go with an RPG staple, a simple MPD disorder would easily explain it. When there are spirits about, another personality emerges to deal with the "distasteful" situation. Once it's gone, the primary personality returns.

I know those are a stretch, but it's possible to do it. Probably not worth it for 5 bp, though.

Oh, you'll know that is not of this world, and probably a spirit. I was trying to say something more along the lines of this:

A normal (mundane) in the 6th world has some knowledge of spirits, even with zero points in any magic skills or magical knowledge skills. It's a benefit of growing up in the 6th world. He probably knows that bug spirits are bad, blood spirits are even worse, has heard of the astral plane, and knows that a spirit has to have a physical manifestation to hurt him. He also probably knows that guns (generally) are not very effective against spirits.

Someone with an Incompetence (conjuring skills) wouldn't know any of those things. He would think spirits are all the same, that blazing away with a pistol will hurt a spirit, hasn't heard of the Chicago bug invasions, or the Universal Brotherhood, has no idea that a blood spirit is inherently a corrupt thing, etc...

Does that make more sense?

On the other hand, I would suggest that the intent of Incompetencies was quite clear, that it was meant to be a disadvantage (since it was, after all, listed under negative qualities) and it doesn't require a FAQ entry to anyone who is not trying to break the spirit of the rules.

However, having heard your arguements before, toturi, I understand your viewpoint on this, and agree that people like you do need an explanation that consists of completely unambiguous language. Fortunately, most gamers aren't quite like that, and are willing to make a judgement call without it being explicity stated in the "Rules As Written", aka the Holy Bible.

The above might seem a bit harsh, but it's not like you haven't made your position quite clear on the RAW versus house rules, to the point of obnoxiousness.

I understand your point. But my posts are not generally direct at any of the old hands here on DSF. I have stated the fact that my views on RAW and house ruling have been made known many times, so I am sorry for bending your ears on this subject again.

Of course incompetance doesn't apply to knowledge skills, but if I had a player who wanted a character who was magically ignorant and would be RPing through the process of learning about magic (and steadily buying off the flaw), I'd probably happily give them a 5-point flaw:
Don't know Jack (Magic): This flaw is just like Incompetance.
So however you choose to label it, it seems like a reasonable flaw.

And Frank, I see your point that you can't mistake a spirit for something "normal", but knowing that something is not of this world doesn't tell you much except, "Oh my god it's a f***ing MONSTER." But that's a good point that some aspects of spirits are unavoidably obvious.