That's right. I fixed them in the data files that I republished yesterday. You can either work on those, or fix them again on your copy.

it's prolly the .NET 2.0 that causing the issue, I don't think the computer I was trying it on has that installed

@thewolf

Issue 7 and 8 are closed. I've tested both and they look good. BTW, thanks for updating the bug listing on my site!

I do need to set aside some time and just run through my test scripts again, see if I can find anything else, but so far, all is looking good. I'm running my game this weekend, so I will be using this to create some more NPCs, so I should get a good look at some stuff outside of what I would normally test.

Oh, and I also closed Issue 10, as this should work once you code "Save As" functionality.

hey deek, any change of getting it to where it will let you update existing characters as well

I have a question. Is the accesorize button going to mimick the funtion of the right click menu like cyberware is currently? I know it has some future implementation coming. I like the right click feature curently. Having both work would be nice so that users could do what they feel is most intuitive for them. If both are made available, adding a button to cutomize cyber might save on some confusion.

Don't know if this is asking for a lot of extra work, just my two

One issue that has more to do with Wiz/Fanpro, than with the generator program.

I know that you've coded knowlege skills to use BP for free skill points and it works appropriatly according to the rules, but I think the text,

@Dantic
Right on the accessorize button for the gear tab. It will be just like the Augmentations tab function. Having both right-click and button presses point to the same event is not a big deal, and probably a good idea.

Modifying existing characters via karma is a version 2 item, likely to be taken up after the basic functionality is complete and working as it should. I'm guessing that it would be so different from character generation as to require a separate program. The big picture might include a character management system, where the chargen and update program are merely two pieces.

I think FanPro was going for Knowledge Skills = 1/2 Active Skills. In that case, specializations decrease in cost as well. Of course, opinions vary, and modifying the code to alter the cost would be trivial.

have been testing the app. cool so far. Here is some suggestions.

1) switch the Loyalty and Connection ratings left to right on the contacts page. Most everything I have read about SR4 contacts lists them as Connection#/Loyalty# and having the columns in that order will help out when you are just chugging away. I had to re-add all the contacts when playing with it tonight since I have the C & L ratings backwards.

2) on the gear page, have the default number of items to be 1, unless you go back and change it. I had added a butt-load of gear before I realized that I had not spent a nuyen yet since all the items were quantity 0.

3) under knowlege skills, have the ability to add one that is not in the list for each of the categories. I tried to do the bounty hunter from the book and almost none of the interests are in the list.

4) under languages, have the ability to add others. Sioux is not on the list and needs to be. Plus I and my players have come up with some very odd/rare languages and it would be nice to add them (as a one off).

5) I know the accessorize button is not working yet, but we need to fix that or be able to edit the firearm accessories costs when building a character so we can true up the costs.

6) there should be an edit button for any item that we have added (gear, skills, contacts, etc) to change that line. This is important when you sitting there tweaking the character. I know it sound way easier than it is but it is needed, or I should say very very wanted.

overall it rocks.

7) is there a way that we can add "books" that are not offical fanpro/wizkids SR4 books? have some way that a GM like myself that has items either created by myself, my players, or stolen (err I mean "borrowed") from the net, to be added. Maybe by adding a another "gearitems", or "vehicles", or etc file, instead of a .DAT be .CUS (or whatever) in the same data directory and have the lists merged together. That way if you update the .DAT files in a new release then the custom items wont be lost. I know this will not be 1.0 code release item. I wish but I understand.

thanks for the program.. it rocks...

dog

Yikes, real life intrudes so often on programming time. I haven't really been too productive lately, although a few of the changes suggested are already in the works. I hope the holiday season coming up will provide me with some dedicated time to program. Thanks for your patience and compliments on the program.

Also, I'm still looking for someone to develop an XML stylesheet transform to take the XML character sheet and make pretty character pages out of it. If that doesn't work out, I might go with a spreadsheet format instead. I'm not sure.

I don't know if this has been pointed out, but as I was testing/creating a character on the system I noticed that cyberlinbs do not add boxes to the Physical condition modifier, instead...I think...adding dice to damage resistance tests.

...so is there a link for downloading the latest version of the CG?

I now have the capability to download without having to do it from work behind my IT director's back.

Dev Site

I found one bug, I made a Troll character, with exceptional attribute, Charisma, and maxed the attribute, with no problems (max 5 after adding quality).
After saving this character, I later loaded the same and he had 15 unspent BP. I found that the program had loaded the Troll with a natural max Charisma of 6 instead of the correct max of 5, and so had only calculated 10 BP, instead of 25 for the 5th Charisma attribute point, and so the remaining 15 BP balance.

...Well I downloaded and extracted (or so I think) version Dominica, but can't seem to find where it installed. I performed several searches of my HD using "Dominca" and "DNCRG" as targets but only found a 1KB file named "Dominica" and a 61MB .exe file DNCRG which could not be opened. Unlike when I downloaded the SR3 NSCRG, no start up icon was installed on my Desktop. I do not know what I did wrong.

Just extract all of the files to a folder on your desktop and run it from there. It doesn't have an "real" installation package, nor does it install the usual shortcuts and so on.

Is there anything you want from us testers or are we still waiting on the new release?

Actually you guys have done a really great job with testing. I'm kind of stuck on the character sheet problem and how to make that work with all types of characters. I think the NSRCG program did a great job with the html, but that is a huge piece. XML with a stylesheet would work nicely, but again a huge piece and I'm not experienced with XSLT's.

Plus I've run into some issues of programming a lot at work, and then coming home and not really wanting to jump right back into Visual Studio. Also I personally find the Excel spreadsheet character generators a lot easier to use for most things than my own program. Accessorizing is probably the only real additional feature.

We need to find someone to help out with the XSLT/XML for the character sheet. I personally only know basic HTML or I would help with it.

As for having to do a bunch of coding at work and coming home and not feeling like working in VS on this, I understand. I dont code at work but when I come home after a long day beating on servers all day long, I sometimes have trouble even logging in enough to read my email.

If there is anything we can do to help out, let us know.....

dog

I'm in the same boat with thewolf. I'm finding the Spreadsheets that WizDoc started to be adequate for the most part for my needs. Couple that with the fact that my group is taking a break from SR4 to play something different, I'm finding it difficult to muster will power to put effort into this project. Also, Our group is beginning to house rule more and more things due to a general dissatifaction with many parts of the v4 core rules, so I'm not sure I could even use the prog if it was finished.

@thewolf
If you can concentrate on generating an XML output, and not worry about the XSLT just yet, I'm sure someone will be able to take the XML and make one or several XSLTs based on a good HTML layout. Remember, you are just in phase 1 of the development anyway.... once you get finished with Char Created by build point system, you still need to work on Karma growth system.

I did several XSLTs for mcmackie on his prog years back, but it's very hard to do XSLTs with having the XML output or specs to work with.

@KeyMasterOfGozer
Right on the house rules. There will be lots with SR4, and each group will want to do something different. That makes event programming a nightmare.

But anyways, it already uses XML as the character storage format. The karma expenditure part of it just magnifies the complexity even more.

2/14/2007
R00 Design Beta Release

(Dev Site)

I finally got some time to develop today, so I decided to completely destroy the program. Yep, this design beta is totally non-functional, but the UI elements are there for everyone to critique. I have really moved a few things around, went with a new header type grouping instead of a boring group box, and simplified a few sections from variable datagrid components to fixed-length components.

The general idea here was to make the program as easy to use as a spreadsheet, and I think the datagrids complicate things a bit. This is more streamlined, but not as robust. In the meantime I am going to redesign several backend items to make them more predictable. The need for someone who knows XSLT hasn't disappeared, although I might get down to learning it here shortly.

Awesome news, I will check it out now.

EDIT:
Alright everything looks much cleaner a better than the last one. I have some questions and comments though.

1. How is the user going to select their skills? Right now it looks like the skills are all predefined in the skill tab. One thing I would like to see return is the ability to sort the skills in a list by their categories: combat, physical, magical, etc. and even by attribute if possible.

2. I love the way augmentations are done, please don't change this. Simply Brilliant.

3. I see the magic tab which also looks well done. Two things I notice are missing are spells, foci, and bound spirits. Though it looks like you might be planning to put foci in magical supplies under the gear tab. If this is true, how will foci be represented as bound to the magician or shaman.

4. You matrix tab reminds me an awful lot of a community made excel spreadsheet I saw. Looks great as well.

5. Contact tab looking good.

6. Gear tab this is just as good as the augmentation tab.

7. The vehicle tab has some problems. It would be nice to be able to select a category and then have the vehicles in that category display(air, ground, water, etc). How will drones and vehicles be outfitted with sensors. Don't drones come with a sensor package?

8. I am not too sure if Finances should go in the qualities tab as I don't see it as a quality. Maybe put this somewhere else? I can't think of anywhere else you would put finances because there just isn't room. Maybe you could have it automatically factored in like Daegann's? Not too sure I like the way the qualities are arranged. I don't like the idea of having to select each quality in a drop down list multiple times. Maybe you could have the positive and negative qualities look exactly like the Magic tab is now. You would then add positive qualities and negative qualities the same way you select a tradition or mentor spirit. I do like being able to enter notes for the qualities, it is a good feature.

9. Finances again. Maybe you could have a separate finances tab that would include bank accounts, lifestyle, monthly subscriptions, amount of BP currently spent in gear, and what SIN\SINS this information is attached to. Though features like that might be really far down the road.

10. Will any of the old data files be able to be used in this new system?

If I think of anything else I will be sure to let you know. Looking forward to a fully functional release.

Oh my, where to begin?

1. Skills are predefined in the scrollable panel. I liked that personally because it gave me a better idea of what skills I had selected in relation to the others. In a datagrid it is easy to lose track of what you have picked, and I realized I spent a lot of time in spreadsheets moving skill ranks around to balance things out. They will automatically be in their categories, but not by attribute.

2. Thanks for the compliment!

3. Spells are under "Magician", and Foci and Bound Spirits are under "Magical Extras". Notice the tabs-within-a-tab-panel on the left side running vertically.

4, 5, 6. See #2

7. A combo-box right above that listbox is conceivable. There are so few vehicles though. The customize vehicle button will allow the addition of sensors, guns, etc to your ride.

8. I am considering moving Finances to the front page, and moving things around so they fit. It might work.

9. It could happen. I wanted simple, since it is a chargen first.

10. DAT files stay the same.

Oh I see the other tabs now on the left hand side. You might want to make those a tad bit more noticeable. I saw it before but didn't actually realize those were tabs. I like them though, another good idea.

2/16/2007
R01 Design Beta Release

(Dev Site)

A few tabs moved around, a slight color scheme change. Still non-functional, but gives you an idea of where it is going. I was really curious about how well the skills section is going to work. I think it will be much easier to get an overview of where you are spending. I will probably work on that next, as that is the major UI change. A lot of stuff is going to have to switch on the backend for this to really work though.

I am not seeing the R01 Design Beta Release. All I am currently seeing is the R00 release. The file name is still DnCrg_SR4_R00_02142007.zip.

What do you mean when you say, "A lot of stuff is going to have to switch on the backend for this to really work though."?

R01 Design Beta

The download page shows it for me. Link above goes directly to the new ZIP file.

I don't really like the way I set up skills, particularly how that collection works. There are several backend-type changes I want to make anyways, and then I have to totally redo skills since that has changed as well. It's almost a re-write, but not quite.

It doesn't look like the Skills Tab works with a mouse wheel, I guess I didn't notice this in the previous release. Everything implemented in this new design release is an improvement in my opinion.

EDIT: What about you other guys that use this program. It would be nice to hear from you. I noticed that some people were using the previous released beta even though it wasn't a fully functional program yet. I am sure thewolf would like to hear your thoughts and input. Then again, maybe it's because not a whole lot of people frequent this part of the forums.

Skills tab scolling fixed in next version.

The Dominica release probably works better at this point, although I'm sure the next version will be a lot better. I am going to work on it a while before releasing, as the design is pretty much set.

I hope people come back and see that development is still going.

Cool. It is very busy now, and unfortunately you might not see another release for a while. But I am shooting for the next one to be a functional program.

Just to check in, I am still reading these posts, but like a previous poster, I didn't have much feedback to give at this time. I'm also using Dominca, predominantely for quickly piecing together NPCs that I throw at my players.

I basically build the NPC, then take a look at the BP cost to judge how appropriate it is to the players...works out very nicely!

Hi there, I'm a new SR4 player, and DNCRG-Dominica helps me a lot.

The only problems I have run into so far is that the program charges essence separately for stuff you put in cybereyes/ears. This was easy enough to correct, since the save files are XML.

It would also be nice if there were a way to edit a gear entry, rather than having to remove and re-add.

Overall, great work, expecially for a beta!

Cyberear and cybereye accessories cost capacity, not essence. Basically you get charged the essence cost for the eye and then can add so many accessories up to the capacity limit of the cyberware item.

Editing will happen later, I just need to add a button to all of the grids.

Thanks for the compliment and for using the product!

I am unable to use both release candidates because of how the skill section seems to work. All I see is the first five combat skills and Physical-Climbing.

No other category, no way to choose knowledge skills. And no tabs to the left side. I checked, multiple times.

Also, the resource "update" button does not work. I can click on it a thousand times, but to no effect.

...

Dominica works great though. :)

...

The only thing that all versions seem to have in common, is that the buttons with which you change the value of an attribute are semi-transparent. Meaning, they take as a background the last window that was drectly behind them. It's no deal breaker, but it's weird.

Is there a way to include the possibility to change the window-size of the program?

...

It's a very, very cool project and I have the utmost respect for you, thewolf. :) I hope I didn't come across as too "needy".

Hopefully I can get back on the wagon soon, as I just went through a job change and was sort of involved with all of that. Now I do web programming, but that doesn't mean I don't remember all of the WinForms stuff.

The last two "R" releases were design only, and if they functioned at all, it was because I just happened to not break that feature while moving things around. Dominica is the latest more-or-less fully functioning version.

Not sure what you're talking about on the numeric up-down on the Attribute tab. Maybe a screenshot would explain that behavior better?

Changing window size is out, mainly because I like the way I can tack down the look by adjusting where controls are located. Visual Studio allows you to use different layouts and resize the window, but I haven't used it enough to really use it well.

Hah, you're not too needy. If anything, I need more kicks in the ass to do more development on this. So many projects, so little time...

Just wanted everyone to know that I did more coding on this project in the last two days than in all of the last two months. It's almost a rewrite, from the backend point of view. I love the way it is working so far, and it will be much more precise with all of the restrictions and rules.

For the next release:

- I am breaking XML backwards compatibility, so you won't be able to open old character files with the new version.
- I think I just about have the skills tab down now.
- I am going to focus on text exporting first, as opposed to full out XSLT. The sheets won't be pretty, but at least you can print out the basic data.

I should have a nicely broken version out to you sometime soon. Very soon.

Hey thewolf, How's that new version coming?

Unfortunately my internet connection is down at home, hence the difficulty in posting up anything new. I hope I can get a few more hours in sometime this weekend and get a somewhat broken build uploaded.

Oh this one is badass too. Just the way it works. It serializes to XML so easily, and it looks nice too. I am working on it a bit today.

Feature added: changing default starting build point value!

4/30/2007
R02 Beta Release

(Dev Site)

Just uploaded a new release. It may be a little rough around the edges, but under the covers it is a lot different. The Lifestyle stuff is broken right now, and there are probably other smaller items that don't work. I have been so busy updating the code that I haven't had time to update very many features. There is a working INI file where you can change settings though. Not all of the availability filters work. It's the start of something nice looking, I think.

I had forgotten how much I like this new interface due to not opening up the chargen for a while. Everything looks great.

I experience problems you are probably already aware of, but I will list them to make sure:

1. File, NEW results in an unhandled exception error
2. When saving a character using File, SAVE and then backing out of it by hitting cancel, a .xml file named "My_SR4_Character.xml" is still created wherever the location of the DnCrg.exe is located.

That is all I have for now. I am at work and won't have the chance to actually create a character till I get home.

From shadowguide:

I will be out of town for the next few days. Keep testing and submitting reports, and I hope to have an actual release within a month or so.