"THE SONS OF ST. BARBARA".


1. In the beginning there was chaos and the chaos was the Infantry, for the Infantry was alone.

2. And fear was with the Infantry and they cried unto the Lord saying, "Lord, save us for we are afraid."

3. And the Lord heard their grunts and set some of the Infantry on beasts of burden and these he called Cavalry, and the Cavalry became Armour.

4. And when the Lord had seen what he had done he laughed saying, "Well, you can't win them all."

5. The Infantry and the Armour again cried out to the Lord saying, "Lord, save us for we are afraid." And the Lord heard their cried and decided to end their weeping.

6. And the Lord said unto them, "Lo and behold, I send you a race of men noble in heart and spirit." And the Lord created the Gunners.

7. And the Lord said unto the Infantry and Armour, "When it is dark, the Gunners shall light your way."

8. And when you need smoke, there shall be smoke, and when you need HE, WP, H & I and counter-battery fire, all this ye shall have."

9. And the Lord gave the Gunners big guns and field guns, and the Infantry and Armour were jealous for they had naught.

10. And the Infantry cried out saying, "Lord, thou hast created the Infantry as Queen of Battles, but now thou hast made the Gunners King of Battles and well knowest thou what the King does to the Queen."

11. And the Lord replied, "Right on!"

12. And the Lord gave unto the Artillery rockets and missiles and, best of all, nukes. And when the Infantry and Armour saw this they fell to their knees in wonder saying, "Surely God is on the side of the greatest - THE GUNNERS."

13. And the Lord sayeth, "You got that right."

Now abideth Infantry, Armour, and Artillery; but the greatest of these is..."Artillery".


Guess which branch I'm in...

the Coast Guard?

I was gonna guess Peace Corps.

no, no. the Salvation Coast Guard.

The Salvation Coast National Guard, so he's not even active duty!

SCNG Reserves! they have those, right?

SCNGR JROTC. Boom, shakalaka.

SCNGR Cub Scouts! wait, better, SCNGR Webelos! technically higher on the food chain, but what kind of name is "Webelos"?

Oh, I think you know what kind of name it is, sugar-britches.

i could never stay mad at you.

Get a room...

It is a well known fact that without engineers to do stuff, the rest of the army would revert to being gorillas.

I was active duty U.S. Army for 5.5 years (6 month early out to go to civilian flight school). Flight Operations was my MOS.

Are you using acronyms just to confuse people?

No, he's using acronyms that military people commonly use.

MOS=Military Occupational Specialitym a term that the Army and Marines use.

98G is a linguist.

I was a korean linguist, and a spanish linguist for 12 year before I became an intel officer. That translates to 2673 for koren longuist, 2674 for spanish, and 0206 for my particular officer intel speciality.

That is in the Marines, by the way.

Dave

No, sorry bout that. It's ingrained habit.

MOS= military occupational specialty = job in the Army

"Army 98G". (pronounced ninety-eight golf).

Derek, how on earth did you/do you put up with it for so long? Glutton for punishment, I suppose.

Hehe......yeah.....I think I posted in an earlier post that acronyms were WIDELY and regularly used in the military. Every group, action, or activity has an acronym (ahhh.....oh how I miss motorpool day each week and PMCS'ing all our vehicles). Every piece of equipment has a alpha numeric nomenclature.

I was 93P - Aviation Operations Specialist (pronounced ninety three papa)

31U (Signal Support Systems Specialist), which i believe was renamed 25U just before i got out. i basically did the job of a 74B (Computer Fixerator Dude-guy), though, because i don't think any of those get assigned below BDE level.

BDE = Brigade

For those laymen....

I was a Jäger, before I was transfered to the other batallion in my regiment for staff duty. I then served in the german Ministry of Defense, moving paper around. I personally helped in restructuring the Bundeswehr, dissolving the NVA (Nationale Volksarmee, the army of the former German Democratic Republic) and the german deployment in Somalia at the time.
Mainly by copying papers, sorting papers, entering data into the computer and cooking coffee, of course . I was pretty busy (one week I worked over 100 hours). Others in my company nearly went nuts because they had nothing to do at all...

After all, in the early '90s the Bundeswehr had no enemy at all. The threat of the Red Army driving to the Bay of Biscay was no more, there was no other threat around, and at that time the Bundeswehr couldn't legally deploy in another country.

Still, in retrospect, my basic training was pretty complete. We did everything essential at least once. Since most of us just made Abitur, once was enough most of the time. And it's called basic training for a reason, of course .

14E here (fourteen echo) Patriot Missle Systems Fire Control Enhanced Mantainer/Operator. Which is one of the few teens series jobs that females can get, the teen series is the combat arms series.

Thought I'd chime in. It's kind of odd. My dad was Army (he was in the service during 'Nam but didn't go over; he trained the guys that did) and occassionally still wishes he was.

In addition, pretty much everyone in my "Home SR Campaign" group was in the US Military at some point. I have 1 ex-USAF mechanic, 1 ex-Navy, 1 current Army train engineer (in the Guard) and one of my more prolific members recently joined the Army full-time for various reasons. That's 70-80% of my core group in the military.

I am not in the military, but I am a US Civil War reenactor in a high end group and have thus had a very small taste of what real service is like (period-authentic drill, duties, etc.).

As far as the military goes (relating to the root post of the thread), I can only give general statements on my observations.

1. Most of the military people I know are...kind of dry individuals on the surface. However, they do have a signifigant deal of personality that shows up when you get them going.

2. Pretty much everyone I've mentioned above says that's Tony Curtis's Fixer-like character in the movie Operation Petticoat is not that far from some the real life "supply aquisition" stories I have heard from guys in my group. Not saying that it happens everywhere, but it does happen. I've done similar things when reenacting, myself.

3. The whole thing about proper terminology is spot on. M-16s are rifles in the service. Don't call them guns or "assault rifles". Also, what you/SR calls a clip is infact known as a magazine. Etc., Etc..

4. Speaking of M-16s, there are some people who are or (most likely) were part of the armed services that hate the weapon and would prefer to use weapons like the M-14 instead (or any other 7.62mm weapon, for that matter). I've heard my dad equate the M-16 to a "peashooter" and "committee-designed peice of trash" numerous times in the past. Also the guy who recently joined managed to get a hold of me - he echoed that point of view as well.

5. You do what a superior officer tells you to do. That's it, and don't complain.

6. You drill all the time to make razor-precise movements. And then you forget all about it 10 minutes later.

7. Someone else said that people in the military tend to be "no bulls***" kind of people. I would back that up with the people I know. I like shooting straight on what I think, as do the military guys that I know.

That should be pretty good. As I said, I'm not in the military - I have only been signifigantly exposed to it. If you want details, talk to those people who are more knowledgeable on the matter than I am (some seem to be posting already).

Has your friend gotten the pleasure of operating a SAW or a 240B yet? They are lovely weapons to fire.

As a side, why does the SAW, which fires the same round as a M16 sound like I've always believed a machinegun should with a very quick bambambambam and the 240B which fires 7.62 sound so much slower BOOM BOOM BOOM even though IIRC the cyclic rate is higher? Is is the larger rounds?

Currently a 2E0X1, but trying to crosstrain into a 7S0XX Career field.

SAW's are cool, along with the 50CAL. I'll admit that I've only fired pneumatic training rigs, when I went and trained with a bunch of marines, but they were still cool to handle. I'm in Korea right now, and I get to hear the SP's shoot them off every few months during our exercises.
As for the M16, It is pretty accurate if you handle it right, from what I've experienced. Course, my experience is firing around 200 rounds a year for qualification.
Being in an electronics maintenance field doesn't allow you to handle weapons that much.

6 Years Active Duty as an 11M (Mechanized Infantry), US Army.

I ETSed as a dismount team leader, though I did a lot of squad leading too. I stayed a dismount the whole time (by the hand of God), but still had to do a lot of bitch-work for the Bradley crews, especially during the tank tables.

I never saw any real action because my enlistment time slipped right inbetween both gulf wars, and I was stuck at the scrotum of all Army posts (JRTC @ Fort Polk). On the flip side, OPFOR MOUT stuff was always a blast.

Now, for the characteristcs of military life:

"Cuss like a soldier" -check
"Bond with fellow soldiers" -check
"Low tolerance for BS" -check
"Work hard, play harder" -check
"Civvies just won't understand" -big check

Lots of movie directors will make their actors go through abbreviated training to give them a taste of the life before they can play soldiers.

Can't believe I forgot good training use that one all the freaking time. Specially when running round in MOP 4 in 100+ degree heat

"Punishment shall continue until morale increases!"
"I dont know who screwed up, so you're all lining up for Service dress open ranks at 0600 on Saturday. One team, one fight!"

"Private, you are about as fucked up as a football bat."

"See that Private trying to disassemble the 240G? He looks like a monkey fucking a football."

"private, you are ate up like a soup sandwich. chicken noodle on rye, private."

lessee... most of the really good ones, i heard in basic. there was "high-speed, low-drag" as a descriptor, basically meaning latest and greatest (either seriously or sardonically). drills called privates "heroes" and "individuals"--not a compliment. one particularly memorable drill sergeant was heard to shout things like "the target's that-a-way, chowderhead!" in the hilarious Foghorn Leghorn accent that was his normal speaking voice.

All of this reminded me of one of the better jokes we used to toss around in my old unit.

None of this [Thread] directly translates into how to role play a military based character, however if you're paying attention it does help fill in some holes.

Like Derek my background was the Marine Corps, although I spent my time as an 0311 and as such have a bit of a biased view on things. That said role-playing a character with military experience is like anything else right? You make the pieces fit correctly, and it is just one more aspect of the character.

What did your character take from the military? Just the training, and he's the same old John-Boy, except now he has some small proficiency in small arms or some such? Or was it more a life changing experience for him or her? Does he keep his hair short because of habit, or because he or she is situationally aware enough-and fashion secure enough!- all the time to know that long hair provides a good grip? Does he or she have any mementos, old buddies or memories?

Remember too that Uncle Sam likes to keep track of his people while they're living on his dime-that could (And should in my opinion.) mean dossier on record-you're blood type, and basic vitals are a part of public record now.

Role-playing a character who is currently enlisted, or sworn, is an entirely different ball of wick. Your goal isn't to one hundred percent recreate the military as we know it, because that'd be kind of boring, and well you could just enlist.

Instead do some background research, all sorts of recommended reading lists are out there-for instance here is the Commandant of the Marine Corps official reading list (Note some of the names on it: Heinlein, Card, Clausewitz, Clausewitz-it runs the spectrum people.)-and read some.

Take the best elements that appeal to you and your group and utilize them. Don't be afraid to be a little sensational, a little Hollywood. So what? If you have fun who cares?

0311... damn bullet-sponges. All you jarheads ever did was thumb rides on our boats, use up our limited fresh water supplies.... just kidding. I'm biased too; ex-Navy.

Seriously though, it's hard for a person with no military experience to completely understand the subtle (and not so subtle) ways that the military experience will affect a person. My wife constantly picks on me because of the way I fold the laundry. I prefer 24-hour time to the AM/PM system. I believe that Americans are relatively rude and ignorant... and have enough first-hand experience with non-Americans to have a valid basis of comparison. If you annoy your boss, will you get docked half your pay and be unable to leave the building you work in for a month, work an extra 2 hours a day during that month, and take a pay cut after that month is up? You may call it harsh; we called it 30-30-half-and-down, and it was a quite common thing to see happen.

By the same token, I have no real idea what it's like to sit in the desert worrying that my Humvee will hit a mine; I spent my time in the Gulf literally IN the Gulf... hoping we didn't hit a mine. My experiences were totally different from those in the other Armed Forces.

Don't forget that even soldiers and sailors are people too. Military people can drink and laugh and party just like a college frat boy. And there are people who love their wives and kids... or someone else's wife. They are subject to all the same quirks and foibles as civilians.
Of course, they are more likely to have psychiatric and/or substance abuse issues, but the men and women in uniform see and do things civilians can't imagine under conditions civilians refuse to acknowledge a human would ever be subjected to. My own mother refuses to believe I worked 70 hours one 'day'.

Hmmm... compared to civilians military people tend to be less tolerant (or at least more vocal) about many things. We are used to complaining (and being ignored) about any kind of "stupid stuff" On the other hand as noted military folks have no problem keepign themselves occupied and a veteran rarely says "I'm bored" like its a bad thing (especially while driving, you should have seen me on leave. I was the guy doing 110 down the center stripe on I-80 east of Des Moines swerving around every piece of debris on the road until the cops pulled up and my ex woke up)

I've noticed a lot of tinkerers, and I've heard its worse in a guard unit. Starting at about company level there should be SOMEONE with every skill in the book and a lot of ones that arent in it. National Guard can probably fit in every skill at about the platoon level (nothing like a contract demolitions guy in a rifle platoon... long arms 3, demo 6 WHAT?) but in a regular unit, skill 1 and 2 for a lot of odds & ends skills, for all the "hobbies" (yes, demolitions is a hobby)

Z

Again that is in your personal experience, and doesn't really encapsulate the entirety of the military. Like the real world it takes all types. Not every man in my unit was vocal or outspoken, not all of them were self destructive.

Too many people here are confusing their own experiences with the military as a whole, as it is now-since it, like any of us, changes each day. Even if only a little.

I haven't but my dad and father in law were. Several friends including my best friend's husband were in .

Mainly what I've caught from their stories, was the boredom and how to pass time. Combat units seem to have more of a problem with that than support units. Support people can usually find somethnig that needs doing but combat troops need more direction from above.

Look at the early scenes in Black Hawk Down or Wake Island.
Try reading Robert Graves' autobiography Good Bye to All That or Sulzbach's With the German Guns. All of them, spread out from wars in 1914 to the 1990's point out the problems with boredom and the importance of officers keeping an eye on the enlisted men. Look at the bawling out the captain gives to a private in Blackhawk' for potentially disrupting the chain of command.

Things like saluting remind men of the leaders. it isn't petty. Both Sulzbach and Graves, on different sides of the same war, write with contempt of officers who have let units degrade to where officers are not saluted by men and it is systematic of the poor mindset of the unit.
Graves, seconded to a different regiment has his sense of the superiority of his regiment confirmed. Sulzbach, who is pretty even tempered through his memoirs, expresses contempt for all of Austria in seeing how their army has deteriorated.

Band of Brothers has already been brought up but one moment that sticks out is in the last episode when the hated Captain Sobal walks past his former subordinate, now Major Winters. Winters insists on a salute form the man who once made his life hell. "Captain Sobal! We salute the ranks, Not the man." It was military curtsey but he also enjoyed it.

Clint Eastwood's Heartbreak Ridge shows what happens to a unit that becomes too loose as he is a near retirement age Gunny sent in to sort out the mess that the recon platoon has become 'Their last sgt was just marking time to retirement and as a result...the men are less than...motivated."

In his book Arnhem Spearhead, James Sims, wrote of the German POW camps he wass sent to there were a couple of really tough NCO's who bullied men into drill every day. They were hated but the men were afraid of them and too well disciplined to say no. By comparison the Americans in the camp had no spirit and abused any NCO who tried to motivate them. Looking back at how they felt and lived, Sims recognized, and blessed, those NCO's who forced the men along and kept them focused.

I can't tell you about saluting, itself, but I know I was so in the habit of shouting "AT EASE!" (and standing that way) whenever I saw a Drill Sergeant anywhere near me, when I first got home after Basic I had a hell of a time whenever a county deputy walked into my day job. One Smokey The Bear Hat looks like another, when you get used to just identifying the profile.

It's not a habit that you have to break, really. If you leave the service, you stop saluting. If you're not in uniform, you don't salute. If there aren't any ceremonies going on, and you're not six paces away from an officer in a garrison environment, you don't salute.

Why should saluting be "forbidden"? It's a traditional sign of respect from enlisted and lower ranking officers to higher ranking officers, and a traditional part of certain ceremonies. I guess I don't see where you're coming from.