Fortune
Oct 18 2006, 01:43 AM
QUOTE (Mistwalker) |
No insult to Synner, but she ... |
He.
FrankTrollman
Oct 18 2006, 06:47 AM
QUOTE (Mistwalker) |
I'm pretty sure Street Magic was referring to normal drain, which is stun, and thus not heal-able. Physical wounds from overcasting drain would still be heal-able, at least from my reading of the rules. |
I have no idea how you could possibly be sure of that, because it's totally and obviously wrong. Stun isn't healable with magic in the basic book, so when Peter Taylor was talking about how the fact that magic couldn't be used to heal Drain was left out of the book, he was amazingly obviously talking about physical drain. Because that's the only kind of drain that it is possible for it to be important whether the basic book mentioned the healing of.
Furthermore, if we couldn't just use our observational powers to conclude that there is literally nothing else he possibly could have meant, we can also turn to... me.
And why would we do that? Because I actually wrote part of Street Magic and I was part of the discussion about healing magical drain and the discussion about how the limitation of no magical healing was left out of the basic book. And I can tell you with a certainty not felt since the prophets of old fortold the rising of the sun that indeed what was meant was that healing magical physical drain with magical spells is not supposed to be in the game. Not even a little bit.
I really lobbied for the inclusion of a black-and-white statement to this effect in Street Magic, but the thought was that since it was supposed to be in the basic book it should go into the basic book errata instead. That this conversation is even happening proves me right, but that is of little consolation. The fact is that Heal is not supposed to be efficacious for magical drain, whether overcast or not. And when you think about it, that should be extremely obvious (what with Heal itself being ann overcastable spell).
-Frank
Mistwalker
Oct 18 2006, 10:00 AM
Thanks Frank
That is what I was looking for.
Does the correlation that Emphatic Healing and Pain Relief not work on Drain damage?
If Emphatic Healing works, can the damage that the Adept transfer over be magically healed?
Please note that for a fair number of players, English is not their mother tongue. As such, you may want to make sure that rules are crystal clear, with no infering or ambiguis phrases.
Eleazar
Oct 18 2006, 01:25 PM
QUOTE (Fortune) |
QUOTE (Mistwalker @ Oct 18 2006, 07:35 AM) | No insult to Synner, but she ... |
He. |
Uh oh, it looks like Synner might be having an identity crisis. He/she is a she when he/she talks with Mistwalker, but he/she is a he when he/she talks with Fortune. He/she must be living a double life

.
eidolon
Oct 18 2006, 02:25 PM
QUOTE (Mistwalker) |
As such, you may want to make sure that rules are crystal clear, with no infering or ambiguis phrases. |
QUOTE (FrankTrollman) |
I really lobbied for the inclusion of a black-and-white statement to this effect in Street Magic <snipsy-daisy> |
I think he's trying.
Fortune
Oct 18 2006, 02:25 PM
I don't believe that Synner has
ever identified himself as a female to anyone (on
these boards at least!

). His name is clearly printed in most (if not all) of the Shadowrun Releases in the last several years, and he is not shy who knows it.
Mistwalker
Oct 18 2006, 02:57 PM
*Bangs his head against the wall, tries to remove leg from mouth*
Arrg, I know that at least one of the freelancers is female, and for some reason I thought Synner was.
Aemon
Oct 18 2006, 03:01 PM
QUOTE (Mistwalker) |
Thanks Frank That is what I was looking for. Does the correlation that Emphatic Healing and Pain Relief not work on Drain damage? If Emphatic Healing works, can the damage that the Adept transfer over be magically healed? Please note that for a fair number of players, English is not their mother tongue. As such, you may want to make sure that rules are crystal clear, with no infering or ambiguis phrases. |
Mistwalker,
Even if the statement was not explicitly clear in its wording, its inference was. Logical deduction. Process of elmination. I don't quite think your position of "ESL" is really even worth noting. Logic works the same in any language.
Steak and Spirits
Oct 18 2006, 03:03 PM
Not in Australia, it doesn't. Australian logic flushes counter-clockwise.
fistandantilus4.0
Oct 18 2006, 04:04 PM
QUOTE (Mistwalker) |
*Bangs his head against the wall, tries to remove leg from mouth*
Arrg, I know that at least one of the freelancers is female, and for some reason I thought Synner was. |
That's Robyn , aka Winterhawk11
Synner's a Peter (and I mean that in a nice way

)
Caine Hazen
Oct 18 2006, 04:09 PM
QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0) |
QUOTE (Mistwalker @ Oct 18 2006, 09:57 AM) | *Bangs his head against the wall, tries to remove leg from mouth*
Arrg, I know that at least one of the freelancers is female, and for some reason I thought Synner was. |
That's Robyn , aka Winterhawk11 Synner's a Peter (and I mean that in a nice way  ) |
Does Elissa post here... cause that makes 2 female freelancers
fistandantilus4.0
Oct 18 2006, 04:11 PM
Haven't noticed any recent ones from here, but I haven't exactly been looking either.
Mistwalker
Oct 18 2006, 04:30 PM
QUOTE (Aemon @ Oct 18 2006, 10:01 AM) |
Mistwalker,
Even if the statement was not explicitly clear in its wording, its inference was. Logical deduction. Process of elmination. I don't quite think your position of "ESL" is really even worth noting. Logic works the same in any language. |
I was more refering to translations, and literal translations. But, there are more ways, logically, to inferer any given situation, than just one.
Example of translation : Les Francais sont Vaincues. The correct translation is : The French have been vanquished. The incorrect translation is : The French have twenty asses.
Example of infering : When I was in the military, years ago, I needed a military driver's license. When I went for the practical test with one of the big trucks, the Warrant Officer who admistered it, started the session with : You will follow orders immediately when given, you will not think about, you will execute it. Is that clear?". Two minutes into the drive, he said "turn left", so I turned left, jumped the curb, sidewalk, continued across the lawn of one of the admin buildings, leaving big and deep tracks. He qualified his next statement to "At the next road, turn right".
I did not get into any trouble for that incident, actually got my license that day.
I have a lot more examples of inference mis-understood, some due to language problems, most that had more serious consequences (some even life threatning).
James McMurray
Oct 18 2006, 04:49 PM
None of those examples change the fact that the rules are vague, but clear in which deirection they lean, and the designers have posted to these boardsstating exactly what they meant.
Mistwalker
Oct 18 2006, 04:58 PM
IIRC, in the past, you have been able to heal physical drain, in previous editions.
As well, some of the freelancers have had, hmm, disagreements with TPTB, and none seem to speak with CANNON authority.
At this point, I am convinced that they do not want drain, physical or stun, to be healed magically, as well, I do believe that the two new adpet powers should not be allowed to heal (or transfer) the damage.
But, the wording so far, could be taken more than one way. And it looks like I am not the only one, if these posts/discussions keep going on and cropping up.
Hopefully, once the errata and FAQ are up, a lot of discussions about this and similar ones, will end. But knowing DS members, probably not
lorechaser
Oct 18 2006, 05:15 PM
QUOTE (Mistwalker) |
As well, some of the freelancers have had, hmm, disagreements with TPTB, and none seem to speak with CANNON authority. |
Panther assault, or Sherman tank?
Mistwalker
Oct 18 2006, 05:20 PM
Your thinking too small, THOR shot
Aemon
Oct 18 2006, 05:27 PM
QUOTE (Mistwalker) |
QUOTE (Aemon @ Oct 18 2006, 10:01 AM) | Mistwalker,
Even if the statement was not explicitly clear in its wording, its inference was. Logical deduction. Process of elmination. I don't quite think your position of "ESL" is really even worth noting. Logic works the same in any language. |
I was more refering to translations, and literal translations. But, there are more ways, logically, to inferer any given situation, than just one.
Example of translation : Les Francais sont Vaincues. The correct translation is : The French have been vanquished. The incorrect translation is : The French have twenty asses.
Example of infering : When I was in the military, years ago, I needed a military driver's license. When I went for the practical test with one of the big trucks, the Warrant Officer who admistered it, started the session with : You will follow orders immediately when given, you will not think about, you will execute it. Is that clear?". Two minutes into the drive, he said "turn left", so I turned left, jumped the curb, sidewalk, continued across the lawn of one of the admin buildings, leaving big and deep tracks. He qualified his next statement to "At the next road, turn right". I did not get into any trouble for that incident, actually got my license that day.
I have a lot more examples of inference mis-understood, some due to language problems, most that had more serious consequences (some even life threatning).
|
While that is an interesting example, Mistwalker, in this case here you were simply (as I said before) shouting at the rain.
No matter how loud you were, you still got soaked.
As it had already been stated, Synner said healing drain damage was overlooked. Since there are only 2 types of damage in SR4 (Physical and Stun) and since we know that the Core rules covered Magical Healing and Stun Damage, then there is only one thing that could have been overlooked that Synner was referring to.
In arguing otherwise, you have committed regicide on the Lords of Logic. Their bodies are now cooling in pools of their own blood.
Congratulations.
Mistwalker
Oct 18 2006, 07:36 PM
Oh, nice
I always did thing that the Lords of Logic were overrated.
Intuition is the way to go
Steak and Spirits
Oct 18 2006, 07:42 PM
While the Lords of Logic may be dead, let me assure you that...
*cues music*
...The Lords of the Dance are still alive!
*Cues River-Dance*
Mistwalker
Oct 18 2006, 07:54 PM
Steak and Spirits
Oct 18 2006, 08:17 PM
As an aside, I agree. Intution is the way to go. A drain attribute that's related to both my perception skill -and- my initiative? Talk about killing a few birds with one stone.
*River Dances a bit more, for effect*
fool
Oct 18 2006, 08:29 PM
all the mental attributes are great
char.- gee an drain attribute that increases my social skills and my limit of bound spirits
log.- an attr. that increase the number of foci I can have active at once as well as arcana, first aid (always a great skill for mages to take.) computer/hackng for those multiclass folksetc
and don't forget that int. increase youre assnesing skill
Steak and Spirits
Oct 18 2006, 08:44 PM
Sure. It might just be that I find perception and initiative to be the most helpful of those things listed. Personal preference? Possibly.
Fortune
Oct 18 2006, 10:09 PM
QUOTE (Caine Hazen) |
Does Elissa post here |
Yep ... as
Pistons.
emo samurai
Oct 18 2006, 10:31 PM
Plus, for orcs, Intuition has its normal cap, unlike Charisma and Logic.
lorechaser
Oct 18 2006, 11:54 PM
Agreed!
I suspect there are an inordinant number of Wiccan and Buddhist Ork out there.
James McMurray
Oct 19 2006, 01:36 AM
QUOTE (Mistwalker) |
IIRC, in the past, you have been able to heal physical drain, in previous editions. |
You do not recall correctly. SR4 is the first edition to (accidentally) allow healing physical drain.
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