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eidolon
Sorry DE, my post wasn't really a direct response to you, just continuing to think in type, and that bit of your post got me thinking again. You might not write it in personally, but the "greater minds and infallible" thing is definitely present in the tone of SR fiction. I was just continuing to muse on the issue.
ChicagosFinest
QUOTE (Grinder)
QUOTE (ChicagosFineset @ Nov 1 2006, 08:32 PM)
The emergence of the dragon Calozerca is similiar to the release of a Horror-tainted dragon from the Horrors sourcebook.

This plot was mentioned in D6W. Any leads on where this is going I missed earthdawn so connecting the dots is a little hard

The Horror-tainted dragon is Vestrivan, the brother of Vasdenjas.

I thought he died, you sure about that one, I'm sure he would have been mentioned by that name in T6W at least by now. I think its someone else
Fortune
QUOTE (eidolon)
I was just continuing to muse on the issue.


Yeah yeah. no comment for me? nyahnyah.gif smile.gif
lorechaser
The dragon has had a lot more time to think on their mistakes, has tried a lot of different things, and has the benefit of watching any number of things work or not work.

I don't know that it makes them any better at knowing tech, but really, it's all people at the heart of things....
Demonseed Elite
QUOTE (ChicagosFineset)
QUOTE (Grinder @ Nov 1 2006, 04:47 PM)
QUOTE (ChicagosFineset @ Nov 1 2006, 08:32 PM)
The emergence of the dragon Calozerca is similiar to the release of a Horror-tainted dragon from the Horrors sourcebook.

This plot was mentioned in D6W. Any leads on where this is going I missed earthdawn so connecting the dots is a little hard

The Horror-tainted dragon is Vestrivan, the brother of Vasdenjas.

I thought he died, you sure about that one, I'm sure he would have been mentioned by that name in T6W at least by now. I think its someone else

Vestrivian flew into a Horror Cloud and was never seen again. Common lore says he is dead, but I would hesitate to declare him dead unless there's been a corpse. wink.gif

Not that I think Calozerca is Vestrivian. I don't think they are the same dragon at all.
Fortune
QUOTE (Demonseed Elite)
Not that I think Calozerca is Vestrivian. I don't think they are the same dragon at all.

Care to elaborate? biggrin.gif
TheRedRightHand
QUOTE
I never said great dragons had inherently greater minds


But they do... Just look at their stats. An average GD had a Logic score of 13. What does a supersmart human have? 5 or 6. Most people only have a 2 or 3 logic.

By that alone GD's have VASTLY greater minds then any normal person and they should be played accordingly. They should all make Enstein look like a grade school student and the greatest business and military minds of human history like pre-schoolers.
Grinder
QUOTE (Fortune)
QUOTE (Demonseed Elite @ Nov 2 2006, 09:48 AM)
Not that I think Calozerca is Vestrivian. I don't think they are the same dragon at all.

Care to elaborate? biggrin.gif

Yes, please do. smile.gif
Fortune
QUOTE (TheRedRightHand)
What does a supersmart human have? 5 or 6.

10. wink.gif
eidolon
QUOTE (TheRedRightHand)

By that alone GD's have VASTLY greater minds then any normal person and they should be played accordingly. They should all make Enstein look like a grade school student and the greatest business and military minds of human history like pre-schoolers.


And if we (attempt to) play them that way, there is absolutely no reason that they don't rule the world. This is also discussed in a D&D context quite often.

Then you also have the problem of ourselves as GMs not having that "INT: Akliptybillion" thing going for us. So most of the time, in attempting to play up the intelligence and wisdom and OMGSMART of a GD, it's done in such a way that it's exactly what some of us are disagreeing with: They become invincible plot hammers.
TW
QUOTE (Fortune)
QUOTE (Demonseed Elite @ Nov 2 2006, 09:48 AM)
Not that I think Calozerca is Vestrivian. I don't think they are the same dragon at all.

Care to elaborate? biggrin.gif

Originally, Calozerca was an idea the polish author of the SoE chapter had, while SoE was still in its not-yet-offical stage. We got the chance to introduce him in D6W already, thereby laying some more groundwork for SoE. I don't recall whether Macko (the aforementioned polish author and Calozerca's name giver, pun intended) had any intention to link him to the 4th world.

Officially, it's not been explained anywhere yet, why he awoke that late in the mana cycle, whether he was still asleep or somehow imprisoned nor who's behind his awakening/release or even his imprisonment in the first place.

With that in mind, I would pretty much label him as '100% GM fodder' wink.gif
Fortune
Much obliged. smile.gif
ChicagosFinest
Stank you Stank you! its refreshing to see something so new that we get a chance to bite into it.

Now about all those drakes that ghostwalker had in the 4th world.... Arindry, Rathann, Tellanion, Crispell, Markik, and Gichu-ta. I wonder where they went and what happened to Dunkies drake Rosper did ghosty pick him up on the team?

And finally what about Yuichotol? Does her spirt live on in the 6th world?


Most of all what I want to see in shadowrun is an awesome and non controversial olympics (but in the shadows who know what shit will hit the fan), I dont want to hear about sports doping (the world seris was bad enough! did you hear how pissed dan patrick was?)
PlatonicPimp
I remember Reading somewhere (I think in the origional description of the Dragon totem) That what makes a dragon think differently is that they don't arrange for things to take the path they want, that's impossible. They instead arrange it so that ALL paths lead to what they want. It's like the way that politicians control the debate so that voters wind up arguing about the same stupid questions and never address real problems. its called "Controlling the debate". Dragons do that, only on a different scale. So if you are dealing with a dragon, either as gamemaster or player, remember that the dragon isn't counting on you to make a certain move, he's trying to limit your possible moves to ones they like. Figure out your options, then discard all of those and make up new ones.

That's the difference to me.
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