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Garrowolf
I was just thinking about a varient of the stick and shock rounds that jam commlinks especially skinlinks.
What about rotating frequency set jammer/thermosmoke/flash packs?
What about ultrasonic flash packs?
Or antivehiclular radar flash packs?
Jack Kain
The point of a skinlink is that it can't be jammed, its like asking to jam a wired device. There isn't a signal to jam.
mfb
there sorta is, actually. i mean, you're talking about an electromagnetic field created by the body, which is used as a transportation medium for skinlink devices. if you can screw with that EM field, you can jam skinlinks. i'm not enough of a sciencer to say what could do that, but i'd guess that sticky-shock rounds would probably work.
hyzmarca
It is very easy to jam a wired device. All you need are scissors. Barring that, a simple application of electricity will not only defeat communications but is likely to damage or destroy devices at both ends of the wire. The same principal is to be found with the skinlink. The most reliable method of jamming is to sever the appropriate body parts but high-voltage electricity should be enough to ruin the devices.
mfb
exactly! it's hard for a skinlink to work properly if you don't have any skin!
Garrowolf
Do you think that a high induction device, even without the shock part, would fry the devices on a skinlink?

What about the opposite? A inductive datajack pad in the gloop of a stickyshock that doesn't shock but it does transmit their skinlink traffic.
Aaron
QUOTE (Garrowolf)
Do you think that a high induction device, even without the shock part, would fry the devices on a skinlink?

Nah. probably not. It's trivial to include a device in the skinlink transceiver that cuts out if the amperage shoots up too high. Heck, we build them into power strips nowadays.

QUOTE
What about the opposite? A inductive datajack pad in the gloop of a stickyshock that doesn't shock but it does transmit their skinlink traffic.

That's doable. In reality, it would be tough to ensure that the proper amperage was being applied by the special delivery bullet, and that it started transmitting at the proper time, and that it got its message across correctly (there would be no collision control, for example, no pun intended), but I imagine those are problems that could be hand-waved off with the fact that the game happens sixty-plus years in The Future.
hobgoblin
those cut offs usually work by directing the excess electricity into a grounded connecting. if not, it could potentially get enough of a build up to jump the gap between the contact points inside the cut off.

still, its mostly a question of least resistant way to ground.

so unless the runner was not in contact with metal or wearing non-conductive footwear, it would be less resistant to head that way then go after the batteries or other power sources of the skinlinked gear.

mind you, i have no education in this field so i may well be way of...
DireRadiant
If you want to have someone fire stick and shock rounds with the specific intent of disabling skinlink connections, I would simply apply a called shot modifier.
Moon-Hawk
Honestly, I wouldn't expect a stick-n-shock to mess with skinlink all that much. According to the general principles involved, it could or it might not, but that depends more on the specifics of the implementation of both technologies. I would have stick-n-shock screw with skinlink a little bit as a flavor effect (video's getting a little scrambly, but still watchable, data coming a bit slower as the skinlink loses a few packets here and there, but still making it) If someone wanted a round designed specifically to jam skinlink, though, that should be totally do-able. But I would make it a special stick-n-jam round which does little to no electrical damage, rather than making stick-n-shock even more powerful than it already is.
lorechaser
QUOTE (Aaron)
Nah. probably not. It's trivial to include a device in the skinlink transceiver that cuts out if the amperage shoots up too high. Heck, we build them into power strips nowadays.

You mean a fuse? wink.gif

In theory, any electronic device can be rendered useless by the application of a lot of electricity.

However, I tend to assume that most everything a runner buys is TEMPEST hardended.

Otherwise, I'd expect to see a *lot* more EMP based weaponry in the game.
kzt
QUOTE (lorechaser)
However, I tend to assume that most everything a runner buys is TEMPEST hardended.

Otherwise, I'd expect to see a *lot* more EMP based weaponry in the game.

TEMPEST is not EMP hardening. It's emissions shielding and control. And I think it's pretty clear that most of the gear is neither hardened or shielded, as they are shown as off-the shelf items. There is a lot of clever stuff you can do with this, but SR doesn't even try.
Aaron
QUOTE (hobgoblin)
those cut offs usually work by directing the excess electricity into a grounded connecting. if not, it could potentially get enough of a build up to jump the gap between the contact points inside the cut off.

Sure, but at that point you're talking about doing damage to the target (as in condition monitor stuff), not just shorting out electrical systems.
hobgoblin
and isn't that what a stick-n-shock does? ie, damage the target?

or would one have to up the SnS so that it does lethal rather then stun?

ok, so we are probably talking watts or amps rather then volts as most likely a SnS round is basically a electric cattle fence in a small package.

high on the volts, low on the watts. nasty stuff (had my fair share of encounters) but not likely to be lethal unless you get shocked repeatedly (i have seen lambs get killed by getting stuck in a fence frown.gif) or have a weak heart or something.
Garrowolf
Actually I think that it would be nastier to up the amperage and drop the voltage but use piercing darts so the resistance drops from 100,000 ohms to less then 1,000 ohms. Then push the amperage up past the 1 amp mark - maybe 20 amps but drop the voltage to say 1,000 volts or even less will kill a person instantly without the wattage of the dart going too high.

Anyway, I was actually thinking of sending modified shock darks for the sticky shock designed to disrupt the commlinks. Just use the say delivery system.
kzt
If you used a large capacity dart, say .729 caliber, with a large battery, say an ounce that would help. Then if you got it going kind of fast. like say 1300 ft second? And to interfere with a "skinlink" it would have to touch skin, right?

And when you shoot them with this dart (which oddly enough is the same size and mass as a 12 gauge shotgun slug) I would tend to figure their skinlink won't help when they are lying unconscious in a pool of blood even if the fancy electronics don't work. It's not the super high tech shadowrun style, but it tends to work.
Garrowolf
yeah your probably right. If it is powerful enough to deliver the charge then it would be better as a bullet.
oh well - back to the drawing board.

Oh wait! what about a blade that does that?
Aaron
I'm not so sure about the viability of a skinlink jammer. I mean, at the amperages necessary to overcome any cut-out switches, the charge would just ground out through the body, anyway; there's less resistance in the soft fleshy bits (between a thousand and half a million ohms) than in the air in a gap between conducting parts (at least a million ohms), even under the best conditions. Which means you're back to stick-and-shock.
Garrowolf
okay things have gotten a little confusing here.

The skinlink jammer was not using a sticky shock to damage the target. It was just using the same kind of delivery system as the sticky shock. It was actually intended to send out em fields designed to interfere with the body's bioelectic field just enough to make the skin link feature nonfunctional. The human body can tolerate it's field being messed with by a bit but it wont be a very good carrier wave anymore.

It wouldn't be permanent, just a way of cutting down on the enemies coordination in combat.

Basically I was thinking about a whole line of electronic warfare rounds.

Another idea I had was a round that just broadcasted it's location to cancel out ruth suits. You hit the area a few times till you get a signal that still moves, then you switch to the AP rounds and kill them.

Maybe a sticky pop round. The sticky substance is corrosive and designed to eat through armor materials. Then a sharnel goes off after a delay.

Or a stciky slice round that has small monoblades that spin into the target.
kzt
QUOTE (Garrowolf)
It wouldn't be permanent, just a way of cutting down on the enemies coordination in combat.

Basically I was thinking about a whole line of electronic warfare rounds.

Another idea I had was a round that just broadcasted it's location to cancel out ruth suits. You hit the area a few times till you get a signal that still moves, then you switch to the AP rounds and kill them.

Maybe a sticky pop round. The sticky substance is corrosive and designed to eat through armor materials. Then a sharnel goes off after a delay.

Or a stciky slice round that has small monoblades that spin into the target.

If I can hit them with these expensive, clever and complex rounds despite their wearing their fancy defenses why don't I simply use the same gun to depressurize their circulatory system with cheaper and very reliable bullets? It's been found that very few people get improved combat coordination after several holes are punched through their torsos. And I figure the man sized object in the big puddle of blood will provide what the police call a "clue", even if if their camo system is still working fine.

Just wondering. . .
TonkaTuff
I don't really see why the induction jammer would be outside the bounds of possibility in the game world. Regular stick-n-shock rounds can transfer incapacitating levels of electricity into the body, through a thick (I imagine) layer of glue as well as clothing and armor, without penetration. So having one that adheres to the target and, instead, emits lower-energy pulses of electricity or other EM to specifically disrupt skinlink induction makes as much sense as anything.

Of course, I doubt these would be mass-produced rounds. Most people shoot at targets to take them out, not inconvenience them (though, admittedly, having a sucking chest wound is very inconvenient, too), and production designs tend to revolve around this concept. But a trained Armorer with access to a shop (if not a facility) would probably be able to make the necessary adjustments to the bog-standard SnS rounds - given a suitably high threshold. Or, I suppose, they could be the product of the same sort of manufacturer that'd make Dragon's Breath or Compressed Spice shells - with a very high Availability to reflect rarity. The other theoretical rounds you suggested (trackers, cutters, etc.) would also tend to fall into this category. And with the (meta)human imagination being what it is, it's probable that someone, somewhere, would have at least made the attempt.

Though, really, stick-n-shock rounds already approximate this ability. All electricity attacks have the chance of incapacitating electronics devices with their secondary damage effects for at least two combat turns (p. 154 of the hymnal). In fact, that is the only way the stunning attacks can affect vehicles/devices, per the rules. And it stands to reason that skinlinked devices would be more susceptible due to their reliance on the body's conductance to function. However, since most devices don't have individual armor ratings (vehicles, excluded), I dunno whether they expect you to make the roll with the possessor's armor or some standard rating off-the-shelf devices are supposed to have. Personally, since the character is generally the target, rather than a specific device, I suppose it'd be the former (the electricity has to beat the resistance of their Impact armor before it can affect anything beyond the point of contact).
Garrowolf
Well the anticomm rounds would be good for forced extractions or silencing someone you have orders not to hurt.

Aaron
QUOTE (TonkaTuff)
Though, really, stick-n-shock rounds already approximate this ability. All electricity attacks have the chance of incapacitating electronics devices with their secondary damage effects for at least two combat turns (p. 154 of the hymnal). In fact, that is the only way the stunning attacks can affect vehicles/devices, per the rules. And it stands to reason that skinlinked devices would be more susceptible due to their reliance on the body's conductance to function. However, since most devices don't have individual armor ratings (vehicles, excluded), I dunno whether they expect you to make the roll with the possessor's armor or some standard rating off-the-shelf devices are supposed to have. Personally, since the character is generally the target, rather than a specific device, I suppose it'd be the former (the electricity has to beat the resistance of their Impact armor before it can affect anything beyond the point of contact).

Best answer I've heard yet.
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (Garrowolf)
Skinlink jamming

Any device using a skinlink to transmit white noise should do.
hobgoblin
so pugging the electronics of a white noise generator into the shell of a SnS round should to the trick?
TonkaTuff
I'm not quit e sure what a white noise generator would do in this instance. The skinlink uses electrical induction to transmit data. While a WNG would put out some junk EM (as do all electronics, within limits regulated by the FCC or equivalent agency), it's essentially just a microphone/speaker combo attached to a sonic analyzer and resonator. It's designed to generate soundwaves in a range of frequencies that tend to cause useful interference with those generated by metahuman speech (preventing them from travelling outside the WNG's area of influence). Cheaper/lower-rated models would just be a speaker with a pre-programmed, general-purpose soundfile. But in all instances, they deal with the vibration of air molecules, not electromagnetic waves. So they don't make particularly useful electronic signal jammers.

Also, I'd note that a standard Jammer is still an effective way to disable a commlink, no matter how their PAN is set up. While it will, admittedly, do jack-all to stop hardwired and skinlinked devices from communicating with each other, it still stops them from communicating with any devices not a part of their wired/induction network. And if the poor schmuck was in VR at the time, he's gonna have a case of dumpshock to deal with if he wasn't sitting inside of his own comm, since you've just killed his simsense signal.
Steak and Spirits
Questions like this are exactly why Samurai were better off 20+ years ago, EMI-shielded wires and all.
Garrowolf
My rule of thumb is if you pay for it in essence then it is sheilded and directly wired. There is no skinlinking needed. The only people that would be using it would be magic users and people who don't want cyberware.

ixombie
In the end, skinlink is just a toy. It doesn't serve any important purpose, it just allows you to have a wired device, only it must be in contact with your skin instead of plugged into a wire. Whee? If there were anti-skinlink bullets, units concerned with having their battlefield coordination disrupted would just stop using skinlinks and switch back to fiber optics.

Anti-skinlink rounds are contingent on people actually having skinlinks; since skinlinks provide no real advantage except a slight convenience, I don't think that there is any actual need for them. It would be great if you went up against some mall-rat teens who had all the fun toys, with all their stuff skinlinked since that's the new "cool" thing. But I don't get the impression that skinlinking is somehow the norm in security guards or other people who care about security.

Now, as for bullets that jam commlinks in general... I think it would ruin hackers if enemies could, with one shot, take a hacker out of the scene. If they shoot the mage or the samurai with jammer bullets, it's no big deal, since those characters can still do their part. All it does is give hackers a big kick in the butt. Considering they are such an integral part of teams in SR4, I don't think a brand new technology that only targets them is really appropriate. Especially since it's hard to see how one could build an effective jammer device into a bullet, which would survive a supersonic impact and provide powerful enough jamming to actually make a difference to a reasonably powerful commlink.

Regardless, the best way to mitigate someone's effect on the battlefield is to hurt or kill them. Regular bullets are a lot more effecitve at disrupting enemies than jammer bullets; you shoot the enemy with a jammer bullet and they're jammed, they shoot back with a real bullet and you're dead. They win. If you want to jam, just use a jammer. If your team works on coordinating without wireless access, you'll have a big advantage over enemies who depend on their commlinks. Or better yet find out how powerful your enemies commlinks are likely to be, then use a jammer strong enough to stop theirs but not yours.
Garrowolf
personally I think that security forces would use skinlink because it is cheaper and a bit secure. Most mallrats wouldn't bother. Now megacorp security forces are a different story but even then jamming and stuning them is sometimes better then killing them. Probably most of the security guards out there are low level corporate and not megacorp because the primary reason to have more then a few guards is to save money on security and not have to pay for an expensive system. I'm a security guard so I should know.

Unless your GM never allows for the possibility of capture then there is often a good reason not to kill. If you always kill then they will always kill you. They have more reasources and the home ground advantage. As soon as one of their commlinked guards registers as dead then they will lock down and kill anything that moves. If you don't kill then they will not go crazy because they don't want to deal with the collateral damage.

Even a captured team can lead to all kinds of role playing possiblities such as a corporate fixer that uses captured teams as a way of determining employment. If they can break in here and get this far then they might be useful assests. A violent team has already failed to be stealthy and is more likely to be captured for at least forensics analysis if not torture. No corp fixer wants a violent team, they don't need them. They can just send a hit squad which they have plenty of. This is Shadowrun Not CP2020. Loud means you failed.
TonkaTuff
Skinlinking isn't just a toy, though. Devices networked by skinlink are, by the rules, immune to jamming and hacking (unless the hacker is touching you and also skinlinked - and that's a 'maybe'), and they don't broadcast their location to the world at large (there's not even a 'hidden' mode for someone to uncover). There are no rules for what, exactly, can be done with it, but the fluff says that any broadcasting wireless devices can be hacked from a distance - including your cyberware, smart weapons, etc. Someone with a jammer might shut down your commlink's external connection, but w/o hacking into your comm and node-hopping to the device, they're not going to stop your skinlinked smartgun from passing targetting info on to your cybereyes or stop you from toggling your thermographic vision when the opposition shoots the lights out. Preventing that from happening is exceptionally useful, not just gimmickry.

Naturally, you could go even further and have all of your gear hardwired. Though that still leaves your hub vulnerable (unless you're employing a dummy comm as your only external connection). And it leaves you wrapped up in yards of fiberoptic cable with plugs that can work loose and dangling wires to get caught on stuff. Plus, asking for hardwired gear (by the fluff) gets you funny looks and probably flags on your credit file. Skinlinking gives you the same advantages, and since it's still wireless, no one thinks twice about it. All those cords will make you stand out. Of course, that last bit may be immaterial, depending on the way your GM runs their game - but in games where it would matter, it tends to matter alot.

kzt
QUOTE (TonkaTuff)
Plus, asking for hardwired gear (by the fluff) gets you funny looks and probably flags on your credit file. Skinlinking gives you the same advantages, and since it's still wireless, no one thinks twice about it. All those cords will make you stand out. Of course, that last bit may be immaterial, depending on the way your GM runs their game - but in games where it would matter, it tends to matter alot.

If you are even vaguely competent with hacking hardware it's trivial to change to a hardwired connection.
Garrowolf
Okay for one your cyberware isn't wireless. You are paying essence for it so you have a DNI with it. It doesn't need a wireless signal. You do not want a wireless signal because it will broadcast your capabilities. Skinlinking cyberware is pointless.

Skinlinking devices is different. It is a good way of dealing with things like smart gloves and such. You can connect smart googles and use your commlink without DNI. I think that would be the way most mages would go.

You could connect a piece of cyberware to your commlink to receive diagnosic or information but there is no reason for it to have any control of it through your commlink. In order for that to occur you would have to have your cyberware set up as a drone with the ability to act independantly. Then you would be rigging your own arms! NO!

Now making skinlinking unjammable or any system unbeatable is an absolute no no. There is no perfect anything in a game that even nods it's head towards balence. It may take an odd device that is not that common but actually accepting it as undefeatable is rediculous.

It was not a well thought out part of the rules.
kzt
QUOTE (Garrowolf)
Now making skinlinking unjammable or any system unbeatable is an absolute no no. There is no perfect anything in a game that even nods it's head towards balence. It may take an odd device that is not that common but actually accepting it as undefeatable is rediculous.

No matter how hard you try, all the electronic warfare and computer hacking in the world will never be able to jam or intercept the message that is written on a piece of paper and delivered by hand.
Garrowolf
QUOTE (kzt)
No matter how hard you try, all the electronic warfare and computer hacking in the world will never be able to jam or intercept the message that is written on a piece of paper and delivered by hand.

Tis true!
ixombie
QUOTE
Devices networked by skinlink are, by the rules, immune to jamming and hacking


I think people are getting confused maybe. Skinlinking makes a device immune to being hacked wirelessly, since the signal can't be intercepted. It is not immune to hacking though, the book says "protected from signal interception or jamming." If someone hacks your commlink, they can hack its slaved devices, even if they are skinlinked. Skinlinking has no advantage over wiring, other than you can discretely skinlink your commlink to someone else's by touching them, which is sort of cool. And of course there are no annoying wires to deal with.

QUOTE
personally I think that security forces would use skinlink because it is cheaper and a bit secure


Skinlink costs extra. Wiring your devices together or using their wireless capabilities costs nothing. And skinlink is no more secure than wiring your devices.

Skinlink does not do anything other than replace wires and give you a fun little way to link to other people without anyone noticing or being able to intercept you. It doesn't protect your node or your slaved devices from hacking; the only way to do that is to turn of your device's wireless capacity. All gear, including cyberware, does have inherent wireless capcity. All gear, however, can have its wireless functions turned off. Even commlinks.

So, my original point is that no, skinlink does not provide any really important extra benefit. It's a fun toy, and if there were bullets that could jam it, the easy solution would be to just stop using it. If your skinlinked devices could be jammed by jammer bullets, you would just hardwire devices together, which would cost less money and be just as effective. Skinlink jammer bullets are therefore a useless invention.
toturi
Just use Interference, if you really need to jam something.
Jack Kain
If the device is skinlinked what idiot would slave it to his comlink?
Wouldn't it be smarter to not slave a skinlinked device to a comlink. The point is to avoid a signal and a clumsy external wire.

How does interference effect a device that doesn't transmist its signal through the air?

Near as I can tell a skinlink is a way to wire your device in essence. It serves the same function as a fiber optic cord. Instead of the cord trailing out in the open where it can be caught on some thing or torn off by a foe in melee the signal travals through your own body as opposed to a external cord.

Hacking and jamming a skinlinked device is just like hacking a wired device.



ixombie
I guess you could skinlink your devices to your datajack or trodes, but that begs the question - can a datajack give you mental control over whatever device you want? I was thinking that you needed a commlink to serve as the central device of your PAN, but now that I think about it maybe you don't. I guess the only time that a commlink is needed as a hub for your PAN is when you're doing everything wirelessly (since if your devices are not slaved, they can hack each device directly, and most non-commlink devices are weak as hell against hacking), or when you're hardwiring stuff, since you can't plug a dozen wires into one datajack.

That does point out an advantage of skinlink I hadn't thought of before, which is the ability to skip the whole PAN thing and control each of your devices directly via skinlinked trodes or datajack.

Regardless, I still think skinlink jammer bullets are stupid, since if they existed, all you have to do to avoid being harmed is quit using skinlinks, which though not as useless as I at first thought, you can definitely live without.
hobgoblin
think of the comlink as a router/firewall.

the devices in the users PAN is on the inside of the firewall, the matrix is outside (at least logically. things get a bit more messy when looking at the signal transmission stuff).

therefor a comlink (if skinlink equiped) can communicate with all the users skinlinked devices without doing in air transmissions.

go hidden mode and anyone looking for said comlink/PAN would have one small needle to look for wink.gif
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (TonkaTuff)
I'm not quit e sure what a white noise generator would do in this instance.

It's not about the SR equimpent, ist about the RL term.

QUOTE (kzt)
No matter how hard you try, all the electronic warfare and computer hacking in the world will never be able to jam or intercept the message that is written on a piece of paper and delivered by hand.

Directly, at least.
Tarantula
You can always intercept it, thats what good cameras are for.
Chandon
QUOTE (Garrowolf @ Nov 11 2006, 07:11 AM)
Now making skinlinking unjammable or any system unbeatable is an absolute no no. There is no perfect anything in a game that even nods it's head towards balence. It may take an odd device that is not that common but actually accepting it as undefeatable is rediculous.

I absolutely disagree. You see, the game rules aren't just an arbitrarily chosen abstraction designed to create a fair game - they're also trying to simulate a game world to some extent.

The result of this is that sometimes equipment has game effects, and that's OK. Sometimes it's not even balanced against the other options. For example, someone who is using a vehicle can move faster than someone on foot. It doesn't matter how much the guy on foot min-maxes his attributes or trains at running, he's still going to lose in a race with a T-Bird. Not because that's "fair", but because that's "reasonable and realistic".

Similarly, it's not possible to jam skinlinked or wired devices. Why? Because that's what those equipment options *do*. That's their game text. Why? Because that's realistic. That's how it would work.
hyzmarca
QUOTE (Jack Kain @ Nov 11 2006, 06:10 PM)
How does interference effect a device that doesn't transmist its signal through the air?

Magnetic fields exert force on moving current. A copper wire is a medium that readily accepts an electrical current, this is why it is used for signal transmission today. Now, a moving electrical current creates a magnetic field perpendicular to that current.
Wired objects will always produce a magnetic field and a magnetic field of cufficient strength can interfere with the current in a wired object.e

A skinlink works by taking advantage of electromagnetic induction to induce a current in an individual's body. An electromagnetic field of sufficient size should interfere with the current.
ixombie
Shadowrun has more or less universally stated that EMPs don't do jack to 2070s technology. For one thing, most of it is optical and not electric, and for another thing, it's the 2070's. You have to assume they know a lot about technology that we don't, like how to render electromagnetic interference ineffective. FanPro can't explain exactly how that technology works, since it hasn't been built yet and we have no idea how to build it. You just have to accept that it exists.

The only communications jammers available in SR4 are radio jammers which function by flooding all channels with noise within a certain radius. If you think EMPs ought to work on SR4 technology because there's no way that we'll make stunning and unimaginable technological advances in a mere 66 years, go ahead and house rule it. But if you're playing according to the book, there is no effective way to jam skinlinks.
kzt
QUOTE (ixombie)
The only communications jammers available in SR4 are radio jammers which function by flooding all channels with noise within a certain radius. If you think EMPs ought to work on SR4 technology because there's no way that we'll make stunning and unimaginable technological advances in a mere 66 years, go ahead and house rule it. But if you're playing according to the book, there is no effective way to jam skinlinks.

Anything that is based on transmitting and receiving RF is vulnerable to electromagnetic interference to some extent. And anything that is is based on transmitting and receiving RF is vulnerable to EMP to a certain extent. They are however two totally different issues and effects. I'd suspect you'd need a hell of a lot of EMI to really screw up a skinlink. EMP is a different issue. EMP's million watts per square meter in a milisecond on a system designed to handle nanowatt radio signals would seem likely to be spectacularly bad. Far worse than the effects of a taser or lighting bolt, which can cause system failures by the rules.
lorechaser
QUOTE (Chandon)
The result of this is that sometimes equipment has game effects, and that's OK. Sometimes it's not even balanced against the other options. For example, someone who is using a vehicle can move faster than someone on foot. It doesn't matter how much the guy on foot min-maxes his attributes or trains at running, he's still going to lose in a race with a T-Bird. Not because that's "fair", but because that's "reasonable and realistic".

But a vehicle is balanced in many ways, because it has a significant in game cost in nuyen, resources, and possibly skills.

Simply adding in free cars, or cars for 50 nuyen, that's one thing. But a vehicle costs several thousand nuyen....

lorechaser
QUOTE (ixombie)
I guess you could skinlink your devices to your datajack or trodes, but that begs the question - can a datajack give you mental control over whatever device you want?

What *is* the point of a datajack in SR4?

I would very much be in favor of datajacks being the interface for skinlinked, hardwired devices, and comms being the interface for wireless.

Course, I brought back cyberdecks too. wink.gif
eidolon
Unless it has changed, not all cyber is/was DNI controllable by default.

If it has changed, ignore me. Heck, ignore me anyway. smile.gif
Rotbart van Dainig
Indeed. wink.gif
In SR4, cyberware comes with free DNI and free internal hardwired routing.
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