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Wounded Ronin
I figure that this is probably an important discussion for GMs.

If the SWAT team or the military goes after the Shadowrunners, how would they realistically do it?

My understanding is that the SWAT team is more likely to try and arrest the characters rather than blowing them away and they're unlikely to let rip with suppression fire at any given time.

I also have the impression that if the PCs are holed up in a building the SWAT team will go in through proper doors (although they might use a battering ram or a shotgun to bypass the lock) but they will use flashbangs in every room. They'll try to make arrests but if it looks dangerous they'll attempt to drill any PCs present with submachineguns. I'm not sure what kind of magical procedures the SWAT team should have.

I have the impression that if the PCs are outside the SWAT team would try to surround the PCs using vehicles as barricades and that they'll also try to just snipe out the PCs if they try to resist arrest using distant snipers.



My understanding is that a military unit doesn't care about detaining the PCs but will rather just try to kill them as quickly and efficiently as possible. Therefore, in contrast to the SWAT team, they'll use suppression fire a lot, and they'll specifically avoid entering buildings through proper doors because they know that the doors may be booby trapped and that futhermore the defenders are usually strategically arranged to fire on whomever opens the doors. Instead, they'll use explosives or a LAW of somekind to blow a hole through a wall and enter from a surprising direction.

Furthermore, although they carry flashbangs, soldiers are more likely going to just frag each room before entry since they just want to kill you anyway. Maybe they frag you and flash you at the same time, I don't know. I read in the Army urban combat manual that you need a lot of fragmentation grenades to raid a building and that the commander must ensure a steady supply, so my impression is really that the idea is to cover most of the area of the room with shrapnel before sending anyone in.

I've got the idea that after preparing a room for entry the first person in the room will rush in and immediately begin laying down suppressing fire. The people behind him will file in, rushing to the corners of the room, and from there they're going to try and pick off everyone with direct fire. Whereas the SWAT team is likely to use submachineguns a military unit is more likely to be using automatic carbines so you'd be dealing with rifle rounds going everywhere and not pistol rounds. Maybe I'm wrong but somebody told me this.

And, of course, I'm not sure what standard procedure for magic should be.

Lastly, I'm pretty sure that if the PCs are out in the open the military wouldn't even necessarily engage them with the infantry. Wouldn't they just vaporize them with artillery, air support, and tanks?


Is this correct? Do you think it would be appropriate to apply directly to Shadowrun? Is this the best way to pwn the players when they try to mess with the military or the SWAT team?

Fix-it
The techniques applied depend entirely on the location.

If it's a lower-end neighborhood. they'll probably try to gas them. gamma scope grenades maybe expensive, but they are damn effective.
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin)
I'm not sure what kind of magical procedures the SWAT team should have.

My opinion, though this may be too slow for real-world use:

This assumes that the team has a mage capable of casting a mana-based combat spell and conjuring a Watcher spirit.

Every door, a watcher goes through first.

If Watcher reports no astral activity, Mage goes in, takes a quick look, briefs team. Team enters as standard.

If Watcher reports astral activity, the mage will report and decide whether or not to look first. If the mage looks first, he or she will enter through the wall and attack (via spell) anyone who becomes obviously aware of him or her, then will retreat and report.

When entering a room with astral activity, the mage will remain behind and project through the wall at the same time the team makes their entrance. The mage will use combat spells on any astrally active target while the physical team deploys appropriate grenades as usual, thus forcing dual-natured opposition to respond to threats on both sides of the barrier.

Any thoughts?

~J
hyzmarca
The lines between police and military have been blurring recently. With the whole "War on Terror" and this mess in Iraq, a military unit is just as likely to arrest people as kill them. In fact, capture is often preferable to killing since a living enemy can be a useful intelligence resource. The big difference would be the the military unit would prioritize the safety of their own members first, the safety of civilians second, and the capture of the enemy third while the SWAT team would place the safety of civilians before their own safety. It is a simple fact that a police force can afford far less collateral damage than a military force can. This accounts for the different tactics, particularly the reluctance of police units to use fragmentation grenades.

However, I don't see Lone Star and other Sixth World police groups like modern police agencies. I see them as more akin to the prohibition-era police. 'If we can catch them alive, that's nice but if we can kill them dead in the street that's even better' would be their silent motto. Although extra-judicial execution is certainly illegal, they can justify the use of lethal force far more easily than modern police can and modern police can justify lethal force very easily.

Take, for example, the shooting deaths of Bonnie and Clyde. They were ambushed with the intent to kill them. It had been planned in days in advance and the order to fire was given long before the duo arrived.
I imagine that Sixth World police would use similar tactics, allowing runners to escape if tax-paying civilians are in danger but gathering enough evidence t identify them and setting up lethal ambushes at their regular hangouts, including the homes of family and friends. The runner with a Dependant flaw may go to his ex's house to pick up his kid for the weekend only the find that the kid is down in the basement with a police-issue Thunderbolt to his head and their are 27 men with shotguns in the ex's living room. He has just enough time to say "I surrender" before the SWAT team starts shooting and they have just enough time to pretend not to hear him.


There is also the issue of logistics and equipment. Police departments can't usually afford stealth bombers. National militaries often can. While the military unit could go into the building after their prey, they could also confirm that it is clear of civilians and make a single radio call. The runners would be lucky to hear a cartoonish bomb-dropping sound effect before being forced to resist Naval-scale damage.

The basic equipment would be different, too. One might expect a military unit to use hardened armor, in particular Medium Security with gel packs or better. Full NBC sealed military armor would not be out of the question. SWAT, on the other hand, would be limited to Medium Security with Gel packs, at best, and are more likely to use Light Security or Armored Jackets with Security Helmets.
This disparity really influences their tactics. In most cases, a fully armored elite military unit won't have to use lethal force because the runners will be unable to harm them. It would be trivial for a team in Heavy Military Armor to capture an average runner team alive for this reason alone. They won't have to resort to lethal force until the runners start pulling out LAWs. The police SWAT Team, on the other hand, will have to respond in lethal force in kind because they won't be completely immune to all small arms fire.
Also, in those situations where a handful of shadowrunners are considered military objectives, they will be far more useful as intelligence assets than they would be as corpses. Ironically, the military unit has less incentive to kill the runners than the police unit does, overall.
Fix-it
QUOTE


There is also the issue of logistics and equipment. Police departments can't usually afford stealth bombers. National militaries often can. While the military unit could go into the building after their prey, they could also confirm that it is clear of civilians and make a single radio call. The runners would be lucky to hear a cartoonish bomb-dropping sound effect before being forced to resist Naval-scale damage.


remember that police departments no longer exist.

corps do the coppering now. and combat drones are Quite cheap.

I recall in New seattle or Shadowbeat of Armed combat drones flying regular CAPs over higher-end neighborhoods.
Kagetenshi
Just look at the Strato-9. Even with the errata, it's cheaper than one cruiser (that doesn't come with an MMG).

That said, only the heaviest armor can really be proof against runners, and that only by depending on the absence of AP ammo. Shotguns with slugs will punch through a lot, and grenades can also pose a serious threat. Any properly paranoid runner team is probably prepared to drop the stairwell, and in a safehouse they may be prepared to drop multiple sections of the floor as well.

~J
Grinder
Wounded Ronin: do you know the Lone Star sourcebook or SOTA: 2063? Both have many informations about the methods of SWAT teams in the 6th world.
Critias
QUOTE (Grinder)
Wounded Ronin: do you know the Lone Star sourcebook or SOTA: 2063? Both have many informations about the methods of SWAT teams in the 6th world.

Ditto. I was just about to spout off a bunch of stuff from the SOTA book, in particular, but reminding him to go look it up (if he has access) might just be quicker. It's got a pretty decent breakdown of your standard team's equipment, and some of the differences (particularly in Lone Star) between the various high-threat-response type teams (not only in gear and team size, but also in which group is likely to get called in for which sort of situations, and which of the two is more likely to blast, rather than arrest, you).
hyzmarca
QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Dec 10 2006, 09:08 PM)
Just look at the Strato-9. Even with the errata, it's cheaper than one cruiser (that doesn't come with an MMG).

The Strato-9 can't carry a 2000lb bunker-buster. Really, the MMG is nice but like all small combat drones it is intended to be an anti-personnel weapon and thus it has rather severe limitations compared to full-size combat aircraft.
When I wrote "stealth bomber" and "naval damage", I meant those things. Sure, a starto-9 can pretty much shoot you dead itf it catches you out in the open, but it can't follow you into a building. In situations where the police would have to risk their liver breaching a structure the military can just make it implode.

And with a suit of heavy military armor, helmet, and a force 9 armor spell, an individual will have 20/20 hardened armor. This provides immunity to a Super-Warhawks and shotguns, and heavy machine guns with APDS. Not even an assault cannon with standard ammo can scratch a character so armored. The only non-navel weapons that can damage that character are anti-vehicle guided missiles, anti-vehicle assault cannon rounds, and APDS sniper rifles. We can assume that teams which can afford heavy military armor can also afford a force 9 spell.
Kagetenshi
Or damage that ignores armor, like (again) falling damage from dropping the stairwell and/or floor out from under them.

As for the Strato, I was talking about the Star and similar. 2000lb bunker-busters are bad for their contracts.

~J
PBTHHHHT
For densely populated urban environments you use the 250 lb bombs instead. smile.gif
FlakJacket
If you're that worried about nearby civilian casualties then you just use concrete filled bombs. IIRC the Air Force used them in the past when Saddam started locating his air defence and C³ sites in the middle of the suburbs to try and stop them being attacked.
Fix-it
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Dec 10 2006, 09:08 PM)
Just look at the Strato-9. Even with the errata, it's cheaper than one cruiser (that doesn't come with an MMG).

The Strato-9 can't carry a 2000lb bunker-buster. Really, the MMG is nice but like all small combat drones it is intended to be an anti-personnel weapon and thus it has rather severe limitations compared to full-size combat aircraft.
When I wrote "stealth bomber" and "naval damage", I meant those things. Sure, a starto-9 can pretty much shoot you dead itf it catches you out in the open, but it can't follow you into a building. In situations where the police would have to risk their liver breaching a structure the military can just make it implode.

strato-9s are put on regular patrols, but i'm sure the local rigger can whistle up a few
wajinda RPVs, which CAN Cary such missles and other heavy armaments.

besides, why not drive a steel lynx or two in the front door instead?

I remember hearing recently that in Iraq, the marine corps has stopped clearing houses they know are infested with bad guys. they throw a satchel charge or FAE in front door and drop the house.
FlakJacket
Personally I see lots and lots of Neurostun, or whatever the local knockout gas of choice is, being used. Pump that through the walls and ceilings and then follow it up with some elementals and combat drones rushing the place.
nezumi
I'm of the opinion that if the runners are pinned down to a building, the first priority for any group will be keeping them in that building. Barricade off the perimeter, clear the airspace, and make sure you have enough men to hold a small army. Feel free to use loudspeakers to try and talk them into coming peacefully. A smart runner group should realize they don't have a lot of options at this point, and many will surrender without further fuss.

The second step will be to search the building, level by level. Start on the roof and go down. The search will rely heavily on drones and magic. Yes, the current methods are alright, but they're expensive, time consuming and put lives at risk. A $20,000 drone is cheaper than a $50,000 soldier. Send in multiple elementals to search for magical anomalies and, of course, armed people. Meanwhile the mage is sticking close to the actual intrusion group, using watchers liberally ("search this level for anything alive and report back to me"), drones (just peek in real quick), fiber optics to peek around corners, and gas grenades of all sorts (to obscure vision and knock out pesky runners).

Once you pin them down to a particular room or area, th equestion simply becomes what do you want to do with them? Of course, if the building is empty except for them, it could be cheaper just to seal off the area and level the whole thing, but rarely is life so easy.
Kagetenshi
QUOTE
If you're that worried about nearby civilian casualties then you just use concrete filled bombs.

That doesn't help if there are civilians above or below the target.

QUOTE
A smart runner group should realize they don't have a lot of options at this point, and many will surrender without further fuss.

I disagree—I don't see a Runner group, whose very bodies are probably highly illegal, seeing surrender as a realistic option.

~J
Marmot
At the point that up-armored SWAT teams or the military are responding to your shennanigans, you're probably at the 'screw it, let's try to take some of them with us' level of commitment.
hyzmarca
Surrendering to the military is better than surrendering to the police. Crimina Record is far more crippling than Sellout is. The military might as well put you to work while the police will probably put you in jail. Its sort of like Rambo 2.
mfb
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
I disagree—I don't see a Runner group, whose very bodies are probably highly illegal, seeing surrender as a realistic option.

depends on the runner. i think most of them would view jailtime a being preferable to death--at least, until they've been to jail once or twice. and even then, the longterm goal of avoiding going to prison is likely, in the heat of the moment, to give way to the short-term goal of not dying.

one option i see rarely used is to surrender to a different entity than the one that's immediately a threat. for instance, if the Star is after you, you might bust into a Knight Errant office and give yourself up to them. Knight Errant isn't pissed at you enough to be chasing you, so they'll probably be more amenable to working out a deal where your life doesn't completely suck. worst case, they hand you over to the guys who were probably going to catch you anyway. it's not a great choice, but there isn't always a great choice available.
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (mfb)
depends on the runner. i think most of them would view jailtime a being preferable to death

What about those who would have pieces of their central nervous system, peripheral nervous system, eyes, ears, and limbs extracted? I mean, just speaking about the character I'm playing now, her nervous system carries a ¥5,000 fine and 3 years in the hole—and it's not like they're going to leave it in after that.

~J
mfb
what about them? just because they know they're going to undergo invasive surgery if they surrender doesn't mean they won't do so when there are five or ten guns in their face. after all, you can always get more cyberware.
hyzmarca
Of course they'd leave it in. That way, that's be able to arrest her again as soon as she gets out of prison unless she has it removed herself.

Anyone ever hear about the dude who was arrested for having a truckload of illegal drugs but they had to throw out the case because of an illegal search? The police tried to return the drugs that they seized because if they did then their next search would be perfectly legal but he wouldn't accept them.
Kagetenshi
But are we working under the assumption that they're going to go through the extensive process of nursing a runner back to health afterwards? If so, why? I see the likely result being "one person, minus nervous system".

~J
nezumi
Yes, Joe Samurai is screwed, and might just decide "eh, let's just blow the whole damn place up. They're going to remove my spine either way." However, Bob the rigger, who "only" stands to lose a $300,000 piece of ware installed in his brain that he doesn't need to live might feel that his life is sounding like it's worth exactly $300,000 right now. And Tommy the mage, who has reason to fear they might do stuff to permanently remove his magical ability because it's a security threat only has to look at Bob and Joe to realize there's life after magic. Meanwhile Toby the physical adept is thinking that 40 years in a simsense world or spending the rest of his life working for the Star is probably a better deal than having his vitals spread across a twenty mile radius.
Kagetenshi
I'm playing a Rigger. Take a look at the Essence costs for a VCR and the bits of the nervous system it's hooked up to—I doubt the kind of removal this would result in would leave much of a heartbeat reflex, breathing reflex, or any of those kinds of useful things.

I also think you're underestimating the loss of losing magic.

~J
mfb
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
But are we working under the assumption that they're going to go through the extensive process of nursing a runner back to health afterwards? If so, why? I see the likely result being "one person, minus nervous system".

well, there are three reasons to arrest a runner. the first is that you're trying to make your law enforcement group look good. in that case, you'll remove the illegal cyberware and keep the prisoner healthy, because that's the tidy legal thing to do--it gives you a nicely-padded list of things you're doing right. the second reason is so that you can shanghai them into doing work for you. in that case, you're probably not going to remove any cyber--you might disable it, but after giving them a few weeks' taste of prison life to soften them up for your 'offer', you'll want them on top of their game to do the job you've got lined up. the third reason is because the runner in question is out of control and making too much noise, and you need him taken out in order to keep people from noticing what a shitty job you're actually doing. in that case, you're probably just going to pop two rounds in the back of his neck and dump him in the coroner's office.

i figure, if they're going to actually remove your cyber, they're going to do it the right way. there's no profit in going to the trouble of actually performing extensive surgery on you (as opposed to just killing you) unless they're going all the way with it.
nezumi
A VCR is tied into the brain and only the brain. From my reading of Rigger 3 and the BBB, it doesn't replace anything, although it does tie into some very, very sensitive bits. Of course, I'm also of the opinion that because we're talking about threads of polymers nanometers wide, if you literally just "yank it out", you're not going to be getting a lot of it, nor is it the sort of cyber that can be simply reinstalled either without using nanomachines to create new little tiny neural wires in the new target. So it could just be me, but I'm of the opinion that forcibly removing a VCR would require minimal medical treatment to prevent death of the subject (a new steel plate on the skull and anti-biotics).

Now if the question is preventing brain damage, that's a different question altogether. Yes, again, it's in the part of your brain where a little mess up can cause instant death. However, again, I don't think they're going to be going after those little wires, and if they are, they aren't doing it so they can use them elsewhere, but for your health. So the actual amount of rooting around in your grey matter is basically null. Brain damage from removal, assuming it's done professionally (even if in a cost saving method) should be reasonably minimal, and far less than rigging the building with a few hundred pounds of well placed C-4 and going out in blazing glory.

Yes, I do realize that magic is pretty major and it would suck to lose it. But that's assuming that LS decides you're just THAT dangerous. My reading of the Lone Star book would show you'll probably lose A point, maybe two. But again, personally speaking, if my choices were going quadrapalegic or dying, I'd probably say goodbye limbs. I'm pretty keen on living and I'm of the impression that most runners are survivors before they're psychopaths.
mmu1
I think a more likely approach than yanking out someone's CNS (precisely to avoid the sort of expensive last stands being talked about here, and because the SR legals system at least tries to act like people have civil rights, sometimes) would be selective surgical destruction of certain parts of the cyberware, while leaving intact whatever was necessary to keep its owner functional. (whenever possible, anyway - I have no clue what they'd do for Boosted Reflexes and such)
Grinder
I don't think that cyberears or -eyes are removed when a runner goes to jail. Other then that, I'd say it differs from character to character if one prefers death over jail or vice versa.
Dawnshadow
Personal understanding from reading of books.. unless you have a SIN or serious publicity, you're dead if they take you.

And, that being said, if, for some reason, they aren't going to use you as spare organics..

From a strictly roleplaying perspective, losing magic is a big deal, but not the end of the world. Of course, from mechanical perspectives, it's a whole other ballgame. How many mages sink less than half their karma into magic in some way shape or form? Adepts may be slightly better off. Depends on the adept.

Metalheads? You really think that the 10-run savings for that really nice deltaware arm is going to stay on you, rather then going to the Lone Star superintendent's current favourite on the FRT? Or those nicely souped up eyes? You'll probably get cheap surplus mods, because of publicity, but other than that, anything they can move onto their own men, you can bet they will. You aren't completely screwed -- some things it's just not feasible to yank -- but those that it is, you can bet they will. And that'll be a lot of the expensive stuff.
Fortune
QUOTE (mmu1 @ Dec 12 2006, 09:00 AM)
... selective surgical destruction of certain parts of the cyberware ...

I don't think Lone Star (or whoever) would pass up the opportunity to harvest the Cyberware instead of destroying it. If they haven't got a use for it, there is certainly a market.

Even if this wasn't an 'official policy', I could certainly see some enterprisng Wardens initiating this type of thing.
Grinder
And who cares about the rights of SINless prisoners anyway?
Wait, don't you get a SIN if the Star catches you and you're send to prison`?
Dawnshadow
QUOTE (Grinder)
And who cares about the rights of SINless prisoners anyway?
Wait, don't you get a SIN if the Star catches you and you're send to prison`?

Publicly. A certain amount of turnaround, or publicity. But really, why overcrowd?
jervinator
Parts is parts wink.gif
nezumi
But again, the question is, would you like to be alive but poor, or atomized by half a ton of C-4?
Kagetenshi
Atomized, presumably. There's a reason these people started Shadowrunning in the first place.

~J
lorechaser
QUOTE (nezumi)
But again, the question is, would you like to be alive but poor, or atomized by half a ton of C-4?

You can always roll a new PC. wink.gif

That's actually a fairly interesting question to add to the "20 questions to flesh out your character" list, really - Jail time, or go out Guns Blazing?
Kyoto Kid
QUOTE (Fix-it)
The techniques applied depend entirely on the location.

If it's a lower-end neighborhood. they'll probably try to gas them. gamma scope grenades maybe expensive, but they are damn effective.

...I thought the delivery vector for Gamma S is Injection/Ingestion (Or Contact if using a Super Squirt).
nezumi
Neuro-stun is cheaper anyway.

ShadowDragon8685
There is only one situation wherein I see surrender as a viable option.

That would be the "Surrender to an entity other than the one you're being chased by", and preferably an entity where you have contacts who owe their very personal asses to you. You'll get thrown in the same lock-up as the executive guys who embezzle 250,000 nuyen.gif and get caught, and get to work on your Athletics (Golf) skill until the heat dies, then do a few runs for the guys who got your ass out of the frier.


Other than that, there is no surrender, for precisely the reasons listed in this thread; either you're going to wind up as the bitch of the people who catch you, with a brand new freebie of a cranial bomb wind up the bitch of some troll in prison with all your cyber yanked, wind up the bitch of a troll in prison with your magic/resonance burnt out, wind up in the spare parts bin, or get shot and dumped.


Given those options, I'd sooner go down guns blazing, or by setting off something big enough to take a shit-load of them with me. And so would any Shadowrunner, really.


So yes, to handle Shadowrunners, you don't even try to apprehend them. You give them the chance to surrender, then you terminate them with extreme prejudice.
Vaevictis
QUOTE (Kyoto Kid)
...I thought the delivery vector for Gamma S is Injection/Ingestion (Or Contact if using a Super Squirt).

IIRC, you can put DSMO in a chem grenade, which will cause the other chemical in the grenade to become contact vectored.
Vaevictis
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
And with a suit of heavy military armor, helmet, and a force 9 armor spell, an individual will have 20/20 hardened armor.

Freeze foam doesn't care what your armor rating is. Neither does a ton or two of concrete rubble from the roof that got collapsed on you. smile.gif

Sure, you may survive, but you're not going to be doing anything useful any time soon.
FlakJacket
Or that perenial favourite Levitate. You can wear as much armour as you like or be the biggest collection of deadly cyberware ever seen but it's going to do you bugger all when you're hanging a couple of inches off the ground. biggrin.gif
Kyoto Kid
QUOTE (Vaevictis)
QUOTE (Kyoto Kid @ Dec 12 2006, 01:41 PM)
...I thought the delivery vector for Gamma S is Injection/Ingestion (Or Contact if using a Super Squirt).

IIRC, you can put DSMO in a chem grenade, which will cause the other chemical in the grenade to become contact vectored.

...as a splash grenade, it makes more sense than an inhaled gas.
Kyoto Kid
...Bugger, it happened again [double post].

Seems there is a "glitch" (maybe critical) somewhere in the [Add Reply] routine. This may need a bug report.
Fortune
QUOTE (Kyoto Kid)
This may need a bug report.

It's been reported. When you get an error, try to check the forum where you were posting before hitting refresh (or reposting). Odds are that the post went through regardless of the error.
Kesslan
Also for the awakened, if their initiated there's a slim chance assuming they take the masking metamagic (And personally the very first thing I go for) that they can come across as a mundane, or just some one who uses bioware, and thats alot harder to detect and assumably take out. In somecases its technically not possible to take out without killing them anyway (Such as reinforced bones. If your going to remove their bones you might as well just kill the guy).

Beta and Deltaware unless it's 'obvious' actually has a pretty high chance of avoiding detection as well. So it's possible for at least some things to sneak by undetected. So short of reasily removeable things I really doubt you'd see much of anything yanked if their gonig to leave you alive in the first place. And what they will would then more than likely be stuff thats relatively cheap and easy to remove.

Now, I mean if you have the Miltary after you, your more than likely screwed, so unless they have very specific orders to take you alive, your more than likely dead meat. SWAT or corpsec on the other hand would be a slightly different story.

Also it might well be to the benifit of your continued survival to make for the nearest corp turf (Or if your on the run from a corp, run for one that is known to oppose the other). As others have stated it -may- be possible to cut a deal. Personaly I'd rather have to deal with a kinkbomb in my head but still be alive than be rotting in prison as a runner. Afterall with abit of work it's quite possible to get that little toy removed from your head if you know a good doc.

In the end though some times you get cornered and have little to no choice. And personally I've found the average resposne from runners is to try to shoot their way out. If that was the more or less typical response, then you can very well expect SWAT to treat you as shoot first ask questions later. Thats certainly how many modern police agencies handle hostage situations.
Wounded Ronin
I'll bet that if you have all your players watch Escape From New York before a game they'll be subconsciously more likely to surrender.

Plus it will help get them in that 80s mood.

LOL shadowrunners.
bishop186
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin)
I'll bet that if you have all your players watch Escape From New York before a game they'll be subconsciously more likely to surrender.

Plus it will help get them in that 80s mood.

LOL shadowrunners.

Oh great. Now I'm going to have to put that movie in again when I get home. I hope you're happy!
Marmot
Psh. Only the adept survived and even then it was the GM's NPC that killed the main bad guy. What a thoroughly unsatisfying run; no nuyen reward, no loot, and a contrived 'do-the-run-or-I-kill-your-character' motivator from the GM.
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