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Wounded Ronin
The most amusing way to screw over the PCs in your game is to put obstacles in your scenario which would be very simple to overcome with some basic preparation and planning but which most players nevertheless don't think of. On the one hand they can't really accuse you of evil-GMing you since the problem is so simple and pedestrian, but on the other hand it can be really funny to watch the Gunther Hermann style cybered death machine be brought to a screeching halt by something a fat fifty year old uncybered secretary could have bypassed with 15 minutes of prep time.

Here are some of my favorites:

1.) A reinforced steel exterior door that's locked with an old fashioned key lock. Most players are quick to jot down maglock passkeys or electronics kits but few remember to also purchase a lockpicking kit. This leads to the very amusing Jagged Alliance 2 "stopped by a locked door" paradigm. EDIT: Also, almost nobody remembers to take an actual lockpicking skill.

2.) A reinforced steel locker holding the objective is locked with a high-end combination lock. Same as above unless somebody brought a pair of lock clippers. The players will probably try to shoot the lock from point blank range so be sure to roll to see if the riccohet hits anyone or not. The way I do this is usually a "chaos roll"; I roll one dice and if it explodes twice or more something terrible happens. Even if nothing bad happens you can describe how the riccochet zipped dangerously past someo ther party member. Finally, remember that even if the weapon is suppressed the sound of a slug hitting the metal lock which is loosely connected to a steel locker is probably going to make a pretty loud noise.

3.) There's a large air vent which a PC may attempt to crawl through like in the movies. However, the air vent is filled with dust and tiny dead spiders so the PC looks filthy and ridiculous upon emerging and gets a +1 TN to physical activities for three minutes after emerging due to choking on dust. Furthermore, crawling through the vent is actually extremely noisy, as I believe was demonstrated on the TV show "mythbusters".

4.) There's some area the PCs much navigate which is pitch dark. Watch half the party have thermo vision or low light vision and half not. Furthermore, watch how probably nobody has flares, flashlights, or even swanky tactical illuminators on their pistols. If only they played more Soldier of Fortune II they would have seen the light of a tactical illuminator on your pistol.

5.) There's some kind of brick wall which needs to be climbed over. Watch all the fatties who didn't take Athletics because they wanted to pump up Rifles keep sliding down.

6.) When the PCs are paranoid and holed up in their safehouse have a Mormon in a trenchcoat and suit come knocking on their door looking to convert them. The PCs, being paranoid and seeing someone who looks like a company man, will probably blow him away in a comically grandiose fashion. Watch the PCs who have ethics go into mental breakdowns.
Marmot
Half of these are examples from CLUE Foundation situations.

They're also why I habitually pack a miniwelder and a flashlight (if I can't have both, I always always pack the latter).

But yes, they're all funny and legitimate ways to get a laugh at the PCs expense.
Kagetenshi
Ethics? Is that some kind of funky Esperanto you're trying to pass off on us?

~J
warrior_allanon
all good ideas, especially the last, my GM used to play the Paranoia card on us all the time, we ended up being seriously proffesionally paranoid, it also would have mattered who was present for the game, if the GM's brother or one of his sons friends were there, the probability for an overwhelming lead greeting was good, if they weren't or if they were able to be supressed quickly enough, our electronics tech/face would do the greeting, and then he would at least last long enought to try and get his foot in the door. Now whether he kept that foot or not would be under question, some idiot decided that a hellhound puppy would make a good pet and team mascot, and now Mr Snookums as Mongo calls him is 175lbs pounds of lovable viciousness
James McMurray
Dude... Did you just say "PCs who have ethics?" Those exist?
BookWyrm
Have their comms beep loudly when they're trying to use Stealth, despite having it set to silent/vibe. Especially if it's the PC's mom. "Oh, oh, oh! Mr. big-time hot-shot shaaaadowrunner has time to go on heaven-knows-what with his runner-buddies, but gawd-forbid he has time to talk to his mother!"

Use the classic 'guard-coming-out-of-the-washroom' gag. Never fails.

Have them run out of ammo in the middle of a firefight. "Didn't you bring reloads?!" "I thought *you* brought the reloads!"

Kagetenshi
Have rocks fall on their head, killing them instantly. That one's always a knee-slapper.

~J
Wounded Ronin
QUOTE (BookWyrm)


Have them run out of ammo in the middle of a firefight. "Didn't you bring reloads?!" "I thought *you* brought the reloads!"

I'm a little confused by this one. Do your players not buy ammo during chargen and describe before the run how much ammo they're carrying, in what magazines, and where?
Marmot
Hanging your players for that, like the ability to 'forget' mundane items like flashlights, medkits or even body armor (I've seen it happen) is one of the many ways to spark a rebellion amongst the player population.
Wounded Ronin
QUOTE (Marmot @ Dec 13 2006, 09:14 PM)
Hanging your players for that, like the ability to 'forget' mundane items like flashlights, medkits or even body armor (I've seen it happen) is one of the many ways to spark a rebellion amongst the player population.

Just tell them that they need to specify exactly what they're bringing and how they're carrying it. After all, if you're going to add up their carry weights and apply encumberance rules you need to know exactly what they're bringing, right? If they're not being penalized with the weight of the medkit they shouldn't be able to automatically pull one from hammerspace when someone gets hit. If they chose to carry more ammo but no medkit then that was their choice. What's there to complain about?


Likewise, the SR3 rulebook wouldn't have a price listed for an empty magazine if characters weren't supposed to keep track of magazines. I don't think a player should be able to act like he's in Return to Castle Wolfenstein where he carries 300 rounds that magically morph into whatever fully loaded magazines he needs (MP40, sten gun, luger) at the moment. As a GM, I always ask the players point blank how many loaded magazines for each weapon they're carrying with them.
Kyoto Kid
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin)
1.) A reinforced steel exterior door that's locked with an old fashioned key lock. Most players are quick to jot down maglock passkeys or electronics kits but few remember to also purchase a lockpicking kit. This leads to the very amusing Jagged Alliance 2 "stopped by a locked door" paradigm. EDIT: Also, almost nobody remembers to take an actual lockpicking skill.

...I agree, mechanical locks are so much fun.

...as is a door with the metal bar securing it on the inside.

...Squeaky floors & door hinges are always nice too (very common in older run down buildings).

...Or, the elevator that finally arrives has all the floor buttons pushed by some prankster & the team has to get to the 60th floor (or down from there) in a hurry.

Also there are couple of fun things to have them encounter while on the way to a meet or making a getaway. Not enough to necessarily make them late or get caught, but just to raise the paranoia level a bit.

...A slow moving freight train at the crossing ahead.
...seeing the lift span of the bridge they need to cross going up as they round the corner.
...a water main break (or other emergency work project) with a public works crew on the scene blocking the road.
...A large crowd of violent, rowdy sports fans who have taken to the street after their team just lost the championship (believe me, this can get very ugly).
Marmot
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin)
QUOTE (Marmot @ Dec 13 2006, 09:14 PM)
Hanging your players for that, like the ability to 'forget' mundane items like flashlights, medkits or even body armor (I've seen it happen) is one of the many ways to spark a rebellion amongst the player population.

Just tell them that they need to specify exactly what they're bringing and how they're carrying it. After all, if you're going to add up their carry weights and apply encumberance rules you need to know exactly what they're bringing, right? If they're not being penalized with the weight of the medkit they shouldn't be able to automatically pull one from hammerspace when someone gets hit. If they chose to carry more ammo but no medkit then that was their choice. What's there to complain about?


Likewise, the SR3 rulebook wouldn't have a price listed for an empty magazine if characters weren't supposed to keep track of magazines. I don't think a player should be able to act like he's in Return to Castle Wolfenstein where he carries 300 rounds that magically morph into whatever fully loaded magazines he needs (MP40, sten gun, luger) at the moment. As a GM, I always ask the players point blank how many loaded magazines for each weapon they're carrying with them.

I phrased my post sort of badly.

I meant when you 'have your players' forget ammo, its a good way to get them mad. If you ask for detailed inventories and whatnot, then it would be cool to point out what they don't have and roll with it.

But not doing that sort of deal and then in the middle of the run going to shit then going 'ah, you don't have that' when they need 'that' to, say, not die is a good way to get players mad.

That's what I meant.
Crusher Bob
The problem with detaisl listings off everything you are carrying is that the players are not experts in shooting, camping, jumping out of airplanes, and so on.

So thier team of runners has to survive in the wilderness for a while during the winter. What stuff do they need, exactly? Did they remember to list toilet paper? Did they bring enough? How much toilet paper is enough, exactly? Hahaha I don't see spare socks on your sheet, monkey boy! It's trench foot for you. Really, how many of you know that slathering your feet in vaseline can protect your feet when you have to wear your boots in a wet climate for a long time? Or to sleep with thier water in their sleeping bags to keep it from freezing? For characters without the wilderness survial skill, this sort of irritant can point out why having the skill is a good idea. For players who have no idea but thier characters should, it's just the GM screwing with you.

That's one of the reasons that I don't like the GM screwing you by exactly what you are carrying. To get a good list, it takes hours of game time to come up with a complete list, unless you can get a good one off dumpshock or the Internet on short notice.
Kesslan
Well a good GM will at least take some factors into account. But it's plain common sense for the 'little things'. Like.. ohh.. I dunno. A flashlight when its dark? The proper tools to bring along on run to break in? (There's not many and it's not a streatch to simply carry them all. God knows I do that. I take waht I expect in pouches, and the stuff for unexpected problems goes in the backpack. That way if I expect keycard maglocs but hit a keypad maglog I just set my backpack down, dig out the sequencer and presto! I'm prepared OMG!)

And if you don thave the survival skill but are tryign to survive in the destert etc and your character has no way of knowing about little tricks like that. Then what are you bitching about? If I'm GMing and a player who HAS survival skills forgets some simple commonly known trick or what ever then wow.. theyg et to roll under survival.

I mean obviously you have to give some leeway yes. But I'm sure as hell not going to baby the PCs every step of the way, nor if I'm playing in a game, do I expect to be babied to. If I dont bring enough ammo it's damn well my fault.
Sphynx
I think it's the dumbest thing I've heard of, trying to screw the players. Maybe I'm just too old-school, but our objective in gaming isn't to screw or get screwed, it's to tell a story. Putting a door they can't get past is only for when the story would be hindered by them getting past it, and even then, expect the possibility that they will get past it (better to have it hidden).

If your objective is to screw players, just drop randomly orbitting cows on them and be done with it. We rarely ever even count ammo, if it makes the story interesting, the GM just tells someone their last clip went dry, and we auto-assume it's for the story, to make it more interesting in some way. So we look for something to swing or get ready to pistol-whip.

If your objective is to screw the players, I'm guessing that the players aren't going to just nod and flip the pistol into a pistol-whip position when you tell them they're out of ammo. Then again, our group tends to 'screw itself' by someone who doesn't count his ammo just deciding he's out until someone is around to throw him a spare clip or he comes across a weapon.

So anyhows, maybe not a dumb idea, maybe just completely different playing styles, but I wouldn't last long as a player with a GM that was out to screw me. If that's his idea of telling a good story, I'll just find a new GM, or GM myself.
Crusher Bob
My main objection is that list making takes away valuable game time. A realistic list of what to carry might take an hour or two to prepare, then a discussion of how the laod will be split between the party and so on. Unless it's really an excuse to give the GM more time or the groups actually enjoys the list making, it's much better to skip over it and get on with the part that everyone actually enjoys.
Kesslan
Well personally I never expecitly go out to 'screw' a group of PCs. At least not in any serious way. I mean the thing is some PCs seem to only expect certain things. Now the time of games I run, I very much expect players to track their ammo usage, and even if they dont, I do.

Thats largely because I go in for the slightly more gritty realistic playstyle. To each their own of course. And It's also why when I'm playing a game, I track my own ammo usage.

I will however occasionally throw an unepected locktype etc at a PC group. Afterall there's almost allways -some- way of bypassing said door. Even if in the end, that comes down to either leaving it alone, or bashing it in.

Now and then, I'll even do something, I've seen done in real life. ANd thats put a security door to a room, that's built out of what passes for drywall in SR. Meaning if the PCs think of it.. yeah they can just go through the wall. I just dont do stuff like that on a regular basis.

Reall the mentality I'm seeing from this thread (and i can be totally wrong about this) isnt so much YEAHH! Let's totally screw over the PCs soely to make their lives miserable!

But purely a sort of game of mental chess, where you as the GM try to think of simple, and some times ammusing ways to foil the plans of PCs. Afterall, they are trying to foil your plans constantly, and it can be a good deal of fun for both parties to throw the odd twist at them that isnt harmful, but simply funny or makes them have to stop and actually think about what their doing.
Kesslan
QUOTE (Crusher Bob @ Dec 14 2006, 03:18 AM)
My main objection is that list making takes away valuable game time.  A realistic list of what to carry might take an hour or two to prepare, then a discussion of how the laod will be split between the party and so on.  Unless it's really an excuse to give the GM more time or the groups actually enjoys the list making, it's much better to skip over it and get on with the part that everyone actually enjoys.


EDIT: Also note this did not by any means take me more than a few simple minutes and working purely from memory rather than an actual characters full equipment list.

Only once does it ever take away serious ammounts of time unless you do something that needs some really unusual gear.

Nor does a typical loadout take very long at all to work up. Example:

Backpack:
Electronics Tool Kit
Maglock Sequencer
First Aid Kit
Trauma Patch
10x Spare Assault rifle clips with normal ammo
Autopicker
Prybar
Gasmask

Webbing with:
2x Frag grenades
2x IR smoke grenades
2x Flash Grenades
4x Assault RIfle clips with normal ammo
4x Assault rifle clips with EX-EX
Combat Knife
Tactical Flashlight

Camouflage Body Armor with Helmet
Holstered Pistol with 2x Spare Mags of EX-EX

In pockets etc:
Maglock Passkey
Micro Torch
2x Spare Pistol mags with APDS
2X throwing knives in booth sheath
Wire Clippers
Notepad
Pencil

Carrying in hand:
Ares Assault Rifle
Crusher Bob
Heh, I don't see any toilet paper on your list, although I guess the notepad could do in a pinch. Time for your PC to shout out, "Help me, Tommy. I've wiped my ass with pre-historic stinging nettle!" <insert evil GM laugh>
Kesslan
ROFL.

Well thats because I dont -expect- to be in a situation where I'll nee to use the bathroom, and if i'm on a 'typical run'. If I really need one that badly, I'll damn well go use the one of the corp I'm raiding grinbig.gif

If I was expecting a run that would take me out into the deep woods as it were, I would add to the backpack:
Large box of matches
Toilet paper
Colapsable 1 man tent
2x 1l canteens
X days rations (no more than a few days tops unless I was supposed to be out a bloody long time)
Camping cookware set
Spork!
Unbreakable travel mug
bug repellant
2 changes of underwear and socks
Survival saw

And one of those foil thermal survival blankets, and assorted odds and ends. BUt thats what I'd really call one of those 'out of the ordinary runs' where I would infact have to take maybe an hour figguring out what to haul along.
Sphynx
Defintiely different playing styles Kesslan. If you went anywhere with that list of gear in our game, you'd not make it through an actual ShadowRun. Our runs are a mix of OceansEleven, JamesBond, and MissionImpossible. You'd never make it in a building without setting off alarms with the Assault Rifle alone, in our games. In our game, the best way to screw the players is to place innocent bystanders in the way.

Of course, the day we walk into a building for a run, and don't know in advance which doors are mechanically locked, time to walk because it's obviously a setup. nyahnyah.gif
Kesslan
Well keep in mind I set this up as an example of your tipical raid. Oceans Eleven style playing takes god knows how much stuff into account. And it -severely- limits the kinda gear and cyber you can use really. Because eventually that fake ID/lisence is goign to crack and your illegal cyber is going to be noted as such. Not to mention even if it's 'legal' it still draws alot of attention

ANd yeah i'm not about to go on a run where I hvae to steal something from a high end luxury hotel with an assault rifle. If I bring a weapon at all it's gonna be ceramic knives and MADS invisible guns, nanopaste disguises etc.

But stuf flike that you have to plan out ahead of time a great deal, and specificaly customize your gear loadout to the job becuase its likely going to require specialy tools, and ideally your intel should damn well be good enough on the place first before you ever go in for the job to know if you do or not and if you do what that specialty gear is.

wargear
As a GM I tend to go with the assumption that Lifestyle covers incidental ammo and maintenance costs. Special stuff is acquired from Fixers, etc. I generally ask for a quick list of what they are taking with them, but leave it up to the players to enforce expenditure. I prefer to let the story flow than get caught up in accountancy.

As a player I tend to religiously keep track of my own and general team gear. I also go with mission specific gear loads, with an emphasis on concealability. If an ordinary guard can spot the gear, is it worth taking? Depends on mission profile, I guess...
Sphynx
Exactly WarGear. nyahnyah.gif
Toptomcat
QUOTE (Kesslan)
Well thats because I dont -expect- to be in a situation where I'll nee to use the bathroom, and if i'm on a 'typical run'. If I really need one that badly, I'll damn well go use the one of the corp I'm raiding grinbig.gif

Two words, my man: DNA samples. Using the bathroom of a target is just begging to get ritual sorcery'd.
Sphynx
Dude, you leave DNA just by entering a place. If you worried about DNA on every run, you'd have to blow up the whole building, especially if you ever got shot or anything. By that logic, just walking into the building is begging to get Ritual Sorcery'd. o.O

However, from a more realistic point of view, I'm pretty sure you not gonna get mages traversing the sewages looking for crap to use for ritual sorcery. nyahnyah.gif
eidolon
And once again, DSF latches onto a lark and turns it into WWIII. wink.gif
Kyoto Kid
QUOTE (Sphynx)
Dude, you leave DNA just by entering a place. If you worried about DNA on every run, you'd have to blow up the whole building, especially if you ever got shot or anything. By that logic, just walking into the building is begging to get Ritual Sorcery'd. o.O

...that's what an FAE is for. Just a little hard to tote one around.

Of course if the team is really that paranoid, everyone could go in wearing Hazmat suits.

BTW, on the topic of lists, I don't make the players write out everything to the last item. As long as it's not something like a shop or other large bulky piece of equipment, if it's not on the character sheet, then they don't have it with them. I find it very amusing when the runners have to stop at a hardware or electronics store on the way to the objective.

Runner A "Do we have a crowbar, flashlights and bolt cutter?'

Runner B "...uhh no."

Runner A "Where's the nearest Tru Value?"

Runner B "Dunno, [turns to the decker] hey decker boy, find us an all night hardware store, stat!"
warrior_allanon
QUOTE
..that's what an FAE is for. Just a little hard to tote one around.


not that hard actually, MGL6 with the first 5 in the clip being splash grenades filled with Liquid Propane, the last one be a white phosphorus, lay out the lp splash grenades liberally and as you clear the door pop in the white phosphorus
eidolon
QUOTE (Kyoto Kid)
Runner A "Do we have a crowbar, flashlights and bolt cutter?'

Runner B "...uhh no."

Runner A "Where's the nearest Tru Value?"

Runner B "Dunno, [turns to the decker] hey decker boy, find us an all night hardware store, stat!"

Bwahahahahaha!

Okay, this actually happened in a run I played in. I won't get into why we needed it, because I like to protect the innocent ...or something... but here we are, standing in front of a blast-door type barrier between us and the "ITEM THE GM DOES NOT WANT THE PLAYERS TO HAVE" (the more experienced GMs among us later flogged him for the faux pas wink.gif). Solid unobtanium, this door.

So we send the adept and the mage, neither of which know anything that could remotely be construed as providing know how on welding and cutting, to an all night hardware store to buy a cutting rig and bring it back. They spent nearly what we were individually making for the run, and of course, the cutting rig couldn't get through the unobtanium door in any reasonable amount of time.

Man that was funny. And I'm sure you had to be there and that reading this is decidedly not as funny as I find it to be. smile.gif
Kyoto Kid
...sending the adept and mage out to get technical gear...that's comedy rotfl.gif

...The GM not seeming to not allow anything short of an Ares Firelance Laser to breach the door...now that's mean. mad.gif
eidolon
The Firelance would have just bounced off. Remember, it was a Door of Unopenable Unobtanium. smile.gif
lorechaser
As a player, part of my fun is picking and choosing what's on my list.

I conciously decide certain items. "Would I carry something like an Autopicker? Probably so."

And yeah, you have normal stuff on you. Sure, you can have a pocketknife in a clinch. But an autopicker? A printer? A magscrambler? Not unless you specify it!

I have a default list of equipment every runner I make has. Commlink w/subvocal mic. Medkit. Autopicker. Gecko gloves. Respirator. Stim patch, trauma patch. Ranged weapon. Melee weapon. Flashlight.

A few other items go on the list too - it's just good sense.

Using a character generator makes this much easier too - you just go to the equipment section, and start selecting....
Kyoto Kid
QUOTE (eidolon)
The Firelance would have just bounced off.  Remember, it was a Door of Unopenable Unobtanium. smile.gif

...so we need a suitcase nuke...

Or maybe Marvin the Martian's P38 Space Modulator....
Butterblume
Wasn't it mentioned before? If the door is to sturdy, go through the wall.
Admitted, the GM's Fiat will deliver unbreakable walls just in time, but he should feel at least guilty for doing so.
Kyoto Kid
...then it's a Thor Shot. If we can't have it, nobody will.
eidolon
QUOTE (Butterblume)
Wasn't it mentioned before? If the door is to sturdy, go through the wall.
Admitted, the GM's Fiat bad GM will deliver unbreakable walls just in time, but he should feel at least guilty for doing so.

There, I fixed it so it had a meaning. wink.gif

But yes, the walls were very sturdy as well. biggrin.gif
Kagetenshi
You're adding redundancy.

~J
Fix-it
lockpicks and padlock shims are the first things on my list, and any list really.

if you're stopped by something so 19th century, you should quite being a runner and take up private security.
PBTHHHHT
I have to admit that a group of mine years back was stopped precisely because of the fragging lock. Nobody picked up lockpicking or have any lockpicks/autopicks/what have you. So there you have a group 'professional' runners who managed to infiltrate the buidling, quietly and efficiently take out all the security without a hitch, and have basically free run of the place and then we run into the lock. The next few segments is where hilarity/insanity ensues because some of us were running around like chickens with their heads cut off because of the lock... Ah, the memories.

Won't make that mistake again.
ShadowDragon8685
QUOTE (PBTHHHHT)
I have to admit that a group of mine years back was stopped precisely because of the fragging lock. Nobody picked up lockpicking or have any lockpicks/autopicks/what have you. So there you have a group 'professional' runners who managed to infiltrate the buidling, quietly and efficiently take out all the security without a hitch, and have basically free run of the place and then we run into the lock. The next few segments is where hilarity/insanity ensues because some of us were running around like chickens with their heads cut off because of the lock... Ah, the memories.

Won't make that mistake again.

How did you solve the problem?

I expect it either involves a thorough search or high-ex.
PBTHHHHT
Found the keys to one of the cells, in particular the one that had the guy we came to rescue. The other one which had the guard lock himself inside the cell (he ran in for protection when things started going down and made sure he had the key to it, don't ask, that's how the GM had happen), we couldn't get at, and one or two of the more bloodthirsty members of the group wanted to get at him. I just wanted to get the guy we were supposed to rescue and the get out asap.

So to answer your question, yes, a thorough search of the security office. But it's what the other runners did that made me grimace to this day.
ShadowDragon8685
QUOTE (PBTHHHHT)
Found the keys to one of the cells, in particular the one that had the guy we came to rescue. The other one which had the guard lock himself inside the cell (he ran in for protection when things started going down and made sure he had the key to it, don't ask, that's how the GM had happen), we couldn't get at, and one or two of the more bloodthirsty members of the group wanted to get at him. I just wanted to get the guy we were supposed to rescue and the get out asap.

So to answer your question, yes, a thorough search of the security office. But it's what the other runners did that made me grimace to this day.

What did the fools do?
BookWyrm
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin)
QUOTE (BookWyrm @ Dec 13 2006, 08:37 PM)


Have them run out of ammo in the middle of a firefight. "Didn't you bring reloads?!" "I thought *you* brought the reloads!"

I'm a little confused by this one. Do your players not buy ammo during chargen and describe before the run how much ammo they're carrying, in what magazines, and where?

Sorry for the confusion, I just thought it was funny.
But also, even carefully purchased extra ammo can be misplaced/lost/forgotten.
PBTHHHHT
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685)
What did the fools do?

Total loss of unit coherency, some kept trying to get at the guard in the cell. Trying to shoot into the little slot, thank god we didn't bring any heavy explosives, and others were running around panicked because we could not achieve the objective and retrieve the target. Some of us stayed on course and tried to do a more thorough search, but basically just seeing the group fall apart and running around amuck was disheartening after we had done everything up to that point very professionally.

Heh, I still remember having my character enjoying the group's cover as the cleaning crew a little too much and was driving the floor waxer machine up and down the halls but it providing us with some good intel and I was providing a distraction/noise until the others could get into position to take out the guards. My friend still kids me about that part.
ShadowDragon8685
I'll bet you drove home with that floor waxer in the van/on top of the car.

Pray your character never gets a chance to drive a street sweeper/zamboni machine.
Crusher Bob
Well, in an immediate survival situation like that, the most obvious thing to do is kill and eat your teammates.
Kesslan
Yeah it sorta reminds me of the very first run I was ever on in shadowrun.

It was a crazy simple 5k SR3 jobie too. So you had the following:

1 guy.. I dont know what the frag he was. Cybered or Adept at least, not human though. Had a tail and.. other odd things.

1 Troll. Dumb as bricks, maxed out body and strength, along with a whole lot of cyber.

Me: Human sammie. Demolitions expert, decent with SMGs, Pistols and really good with shotguns. Also very good at bypassing things such as locks, complete with all the basic tools required to do so.

Our opponents!
1 High grade security door
1 Very solid Plascrete wall
1 Raiting 4 Maglock
1 Lone night time security guard who had like a 3 in a few basic combat skills and no body armor.

This was supposed to be a stealth job.

So what happens? Instead of letting me just bypas the dam lock noooo the Troll rushes on over and tries to smash the locking mechanisim and otehrwise force the door open with the aid of oneo f those implanted cyberspikes.

The barrier ratings were simply far too high for him to do more than lightly scratch the door. Suffice it to say the Security guy was alerted to the break in attempt, notified the police, and as a result the run got totally pooched. We finally got the iddiot to just let me bypass the lock whcih I did quite shortly, we ended up having to gun down the guard, run with the stuff from the cops. But then we had tos much heat on us we had to wait several days with a refrigerated container which eventually thawed out.

Interestingly enough the container in question only had packets of blood in it which makes me wonder who the hell our client was.
wargear
QUOTE (Sphynx)
Dude, you leave DNA just by entering a place. If you worried about DNA on every run, you'd have to blow up the whole building, especially if you ever got shot or anything. By that logic, just walking into the building is begging to get Ritual Sorcery'd. o.O

The getting shot at bit can be handled by having each team member carry a small aerosol of stong chemical cleanser/steriliser. After the firefight is over, spray the evidence...

...of course that implies you have the time after a firefight to clean up the scene...
nezumi
For the most part, lockpicking is easy enough that, as long as they had an understanding of the mechanics of the lock and enough intelligence or background to know how lockpicking works, I would let them default to quickness+relevant knowledge skill (6) test for MOST locks. Once I figured out the basic idea behind lockpicking (so skill level of 1), I have found there isn't a single new lock available at home depot I can't pick (the exception being Primus locks, where you need to figure out the 'trick' to them). I've never tried bumping, but I understand that's even easier, and all that's required for bumping is a shaved key (as a note, I'm speaking from a US perspective. In Europe and Australia, lever locks make bumping impossible, but in the US all locks are tumbler locks). So quickly the question becomes not, "do they have the skill?" but "do they know this simple fact?" If they understand how bumping works, they should be able to figure it out pretty quickly.

The exception is very old locks (which are sticky and therefore require some graphite to loosen them up first, if they'll open at all - many will simply need to eb drilled and replaced) and the very high security locks (medeco).

While I've managed to pick one of the most expensive schlage's Home Depot has to offer in about thirty seconds with 'relatively little training', medeco and the like are a world apart. High security locks would be impossible to pick without the lockpicking skill, but they should also be very rare. A medeco currently costs $150+, plus the costs and inconveniences of key controls, unavailability of qualified locksmiths, etc. should make security locks exceedingly rare. And while medecos are almost impossible to pick or bump (I haven't tried bumping mine, but picking really is very hard), they're made of brass and still very vulnerable to drilling or snapping. Snapping from what I understand can be done with few skills or tools - again, a little "shadowrunner trick", either they know it or they don't, and there's no grades of skill.

So really, the only time a lock should become a problem is when they are trying to leave no signs of their passing and they are naked/the lock is jammed (and picking won't work)/it's a high security lock (which had some weird reason for being there). In any other case, it's quicker to break the lock, remove the cylinder, and unlatch it that way (again, you know thw trick or you don't, no skill levels).

Finally, I haven't seen lockpicking listed as a skill in SR3. I'm not big on punishing players for not having a skill that isn't even listed.


That all said, there is one thing I have been wanting to do. On many of our doors, the door is unlocked from the outside through our electronic badge system. On the inside, the door is unlocked by a motion sensor. I would love to have a group of runners exiting a facility when the motion detector device goes off and they act to defeat it. They get to the door but it's locked, with no apparent way of unlocking it! Oh, the poor players.
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