Full Version: Bioware vs Cyberware?
| QUOTE (Konsaki) |
| It doesnt work that way, Jaid... the Sim Module has to be physically connected to the victims commlink. If he doesnt have it, he doesnt have it. The only way you can add one would be to grab his commlink and attach a Sim module to it physically. |
quote, please?
where does it say it must be physically connected? that's not stated anywhere in the rules to my knowledge.
sure, the sim module is an accessory of the commlink. so is a printer. you gonna tell me that a printer can't receive wireless commands to print stuff?
So basically you have cooked up a fantasy scenario in which a hacker can murder anyone in the world who is using a commlink, huh?
I indeed didn't understand it this way because it is even more flawed.
Obviously you don't have that little voice in your head that says : "This makes no sense!".
The target needs to be experiencing hot sim and then you hit him with a black hammer. But to be experiencing hot sim he needs to have a hot-enabled simsense module connected directly, physically to his brain through a datajack or electrode.
In your example Joe has nothing even connected to his brain and you are talking about killing him by using your own simsense module. The one that is connected to your brain!
Next you will suggest using the medkit you are carrying to apply first aid on a man 200 meter away. Why not? It has wireless capabilities!
I indeed didn't understand it this way because it is even more flawed.
Obviously you don't have that little voice in your head that says : "This makes no sense!".
The target needs to be experiencing hot sim and then you hit him with a black hammer. But to be experiencing hot sim he needs to have a hot-enabled simsense module connected directly, physically to his brain through a datajack or electrode.
In your example Joe has nothing even connected to his brain and you are talking about killing him by using your own simsense module. The one that is connected to your brain!
Next you will suggest using the medkit you are carrying to apply first aid on a man 200 meter away. Why not? It has wireless capabilities!
| QUOTE (Jaid) | ||
quote, please? where does it say it must be physically connected? that's not stated anywhere in the rules to my knowledge. sure, the sim module is an accessory of the commlink. so is a printer. you gonna tell me that a printer can't receive wireless commands to print stuff? |
Heh, try and kill me through my AR glasses, I dare you.
| QUOTE (Jaid @ Dec 17 2006, 11:12 PM) |
| where does it say it must be physically connected? that's not stated anywhere in the rules to my knowledge. |
And that is why we are arguing?
Under simsense module, obviously.
| QUOTE (p.318) |
| A sim module must be accessed via trode or a direct neural interface (Datajack or implanted commlink) |
I guess it's because I'm a old timer but this was pretty much a given in my reasoning.
No we get what your saying Jaid what we are saying is IT DOESN"T WORK.
What you explain doesn't work because the lethal biofeed back has no way to get from the hackers hot sim module to Joe Average.
Now I can see where your geting your use the DNI idea.
Sim Module: The sim module is an ASIST interface
that controls the simsense experience. It translates computer
signals (simsense data) into neural signals, allowing the user
to directly experience simsense programs and virtual reality
(see Virtual Reality, p. 228). A sim module must be accessed
via trodes or a direct neural interface (datajack, implanted
commlink, etc).
That is physically connected.
Now read very carefully.
First DNI stands for direct neural interface. It uses neural signals to control what ever device it is attached to. A Datajack doesn't have a wireless signal nor does the DNI used to control cyberware. However an implanted comlink does.
However.
The sim module translates computer signals into neural signals, so the brain can interpret them.
The lethal effects from biofeed back are the result of neural signals. If Bob's spare hot sim module translates the computer signals to neural signals how is he supposed to wirelessly transmit them.
DNI is a neural interface it uses neural signals it can't accept computer signals they have to be translated via a sim module.
What are you saying is Bob the Hacker can wirelessly send neural signals into Joe's DNI connection.
What you explain doesn't work because the lethal biofeed back has no way to get from the hackers hot sim module to Joe Average.
Now I can see where your geting your use the DNI idea.
Sim Module: The sim module is an ASIST interface
that controls the simsense experience. It translates computer
signals (simsense data) into neural signals, allowing the user
to directly experience simsense programs and virtual reality
(see Virtual Reality, p. 228). A sim module must be accessed
via trodes or a direct neural interface (datajack, implanted
commlink, etc).
That is physically connected.
Now read very carefully.
First DNI stands for direct neural interface. It uses neural signals to control what ever device it is attached to. A Datajack doesn't have a wireless signal nor does the DNI used to control cyberware. However an implanted comlink does.
However.
The sim module translates computer signals into neural signals, so the brain can interpret them.
The lethal effects from biofeed back are the result of neural signals. If Bob's spare hot sim module translates the computer signals to neural signals how is he supposed to wirelessly transmit them.
DNI is a neural interface it uses neural signals it can't accept computer signals they have to be translated via a sim module.
What are you saying is Bob the Hacker can wirelessly send neural signals into Joe's DNI connection.
It would be akin to having a cell phone on one end with a camera trying to send pictures to a cell phone that doesnt have a screen to show them.
ok, let's try this again:
show me a quote that says "sim modules are not wireless" and i'll acknowledge that i'm wrong. a quote that says "a sim module requires a direct neural interface" is not disproving what i said.
a datajack does not require a wire to reach from the commlink to the datajack, because the datajack is a wireless device. certainly, it communicates to the brain through a wire, but it communicates to the rest of the world with wireless unless you choose to disable that feature.
trodes don't require a direct wire to your brain even. but that's not relevant. the relevant fact is that trodes also communicate with the rest of the world through wireless links.
in order to disprove my statement, you have to show me where it says that trodes, datajacks, sim modules, etc, are not wireless devices, because the default rule is that they are. certainly, my printer must be touching the paper it prints on. but the computer does not need a wire running between itself and the printer, provided there is a wireless connection. similarly, there is nothing that says "sim modules can not be connected to a commlink wirelessly". there is nothing that says "devices cannot be connected to a datajack wirelessly". the default in SR4 is that everything is wireless.
so, like i said: all the target needs in order to be at risk is a DNI. you can provide the rest (if you prefer to require a commlink in there, the hacker can provide the commlink as well, provided there is a wireless path to the target's DNI).
show me a quote that says "sim modules are not wireless" and i'll acknowledge that i'm wrong. a quote that says "a sim module requires a direct neural interface" is not disproving what i said.
a datajack does not require a wire to reach from the commlink to the datajack, because the datajack is a wireless device. certainly, it communicates to the brain through a wire, but it communicates to the rest of the world with wireless unless you choose to disable that feature.
trodes don't require a direct wire to your brain even. but that's not relevant. the relevant fact is that trodes also communicate with the rest of the world through wireless links.
in order to disprove my statement, you have to show me where it says that trodes, datajacks, sim modules, etc, are not wireless devices, because the default rule is that they are. certainly, my printer must be touching the paper it prints on. but the computer does not need a wire running between itself and the printer, provided there is a wireless connection. similarly, there is nothing that says "sim modules can not be connected to a commlink wirelessly". there is nothing that says "devices cannot be connected to a datajack wirelessly". the default in SR4 is that everything is wireless.
so, like i said: all the target needs in order to be at risk is a DNI. you can provide the rest (if you prefer to require a commlink in there, the hacker can provide the commlink as well, provided there is a wireless path to the target's DNI).
| QUOTE (Konsaki) |
| It would be akin to having a cell phone on one end with a camera trying to send pictures to a cell phone that doesnt have a screen to show them. |
Great analogy.
Well, if we've saved just one SR game from suffering the wrath of the Killer hacker who can assassinate anyone with an open commlink, we have made a difference!
*Poses with hands on hips, shoulder pushed back while looking defiantly in the distance. Wind too, there is wind and a SR flag. And bombastic music.*
| QUOTE (Jaid @ Dec 17 2006, 11:48 PM) |
| show me a quote that says "sim modules are not wireless" and i'll acknowledge that i'm wrong. a quote that says "a sim module requires a direct neural interface" is not disproving what i said. |
Yes. Yes it does!
You need a simsense module connected to your brain to experience Hot Sim. You need to experience hot sim to have your brain fried.
Your simsense module require direct neural interface. So it only works for you.
Are you about to say that while a simsense module needs to be connected directly to a brain to work, any brain will do?
Come on, this is madness!
| QUOTE (Charon @ Dec 17 2006, 11:49 PM) | ||
Yes. Yes it does! |
no, it doesn't. direct neural interface devices can receive and send information to and from other devices wirelessly until you can find a quote that says otherwise.
| QUOTE (Jaid @ Dec 17 2006, 11:50 PM) | ||||
no, it doesn't. direct neural interface devices can receive and send information to and from other devices wirelessly until you can find a quote that says otherwise. |
EDIT : Wait, DNI doesn't send wireless signal. It's Direct. Like a datajack is specifically designed to use a fiber optic cable to connect. And no one hacks the DNI between a cyberlimb and the brain, you hack the cyberlimb itself it it's wireless enabled.
But it's not the signal alone that kills you anyway, it's being in hot sim when you receive the Blach hammer program. And you ain't in hot sim until you have a hot simsense module connected directly to your brain.
Beside,
"A sim module must be accessed via trodes or a direct neural interface (datajack, implanted commlink, etc)."
That's as explicit as it's gonna get.
It must be accessed directly. Where in that sentence do you hold the hope that maybe it can be accessed wirelessly? If it could, the sentence would be
"A sim module can be accessed directly but any wireless connection will do."
| QUOTE (Charon) | ||||||
EDIT : Wait, DNI doesn't send wireless signal. It's Direct. Like a datajack is specifically designed to use a fiber optic cable to connect. And no one hacks the DNI between a cyberlimb and the brain, you hack the cyberlimb itself it it's wireless enabled. But it's not the signal alone that kills you anyway, it's being in hot sim when you receive the Blach hammer program. And you ain't in hot sim until you have a hot simsense module connected directly to your brain. |
the hotsim module does not have to be directly connected to your brain by a wire though. it can be connected to your brain wirelessly, provided your brain has some form of DNI that communicates with other devices wirelessly. like, say, a datajack. or trodes. or even cyberware other than the datajack, if you don't turn off wireless (though i might make a houserule that the regular cyberware DNI doesn't allow it, since that at least seems a bit odd. definitely datajacks though, since this is their function).
so, once again, the hostim module is wirelessly connected to the commlink. the commlink is wirelessly connected to the DNI device (trodes or datajack, your choice). the datajack or trodes are (effectively, in the case of trodes) connected to your brain by a 'wired' connection, but this is irrelevant, because they are connected to the commlink wirelessly, which is connected to the hotsim module wirelessly. therefore, the person can enter hotsim, and therefore they can take physical damage from black hammer.
this has nothing to do with 'directly', it has to do with "do trodes and datajacks send and receive data to and from other *devices* (not your brain) wirelessly?" because, if they do, i can send signals from other devices, through your trodes or datajack, and it will reach you.
and the answer to the question of whether or not trodes and datajacks send and receive data to and from other devices wirelessly is "yes", unless you can provide a quote to show otherwise, since the default is that anything electronic *is* wireless.
ok, wait... are you trying to tell me that a sim module must have a cord inside your head separate from the datajack or something? is that your interpretation of directly? well damn, clearly my characters had better carry around a pickaxe for punching holes in their own head so they can use their sim module, because all this time i've been thinking they could just route the information through their datajack.
remind me to never play in a game you run.
remind me to never play in a game you run.
A datajack is not a wireless device. IT uses a cord!
Old school deckers would plug there brain into the matrix using a datajack.
"Datajack: A datajack allows a user to directly interface
with any electronic device via a fiberoptic cable"
read the cyberware section. It interfaces via a wire.
The datajack would plug into the comlink. DNI now connected.
Trodes are still a direct wire from the comlink to your skull.
"Trodes—A headband or net worn on the head (often
under a wig or hat) that allows the reception of simsense."
It may not have a wire burrowed into your skull but its still worn on the head.
The Implanted comlink well its an implanted comlink.
Read up on how a sim module is supposed to work.
It translates computer signals (simsense data) into neural signals, allowing the user
to directly experience simsense programs and virtual reality (see Virtual Reality, p. 228). A sim module must be accessed via trodes or a direct neural interface (datajack, implanted commlink, etc).
Sim Modules exist because neural signals can't be transmited wirelessly.
It translates computer signals (simsense data) into neural signals for the brain. As established above.
A sim module is wirelessly enabled. It can accept computer signals wirelessly from a comlink or other source. However that does not mean it can wirelessly transmit neural signals.
If the neural signals could be transmited wirelessly there would be no sim modules as you could sned the neural signal wirelessly to begain with.
Old school deckers would plug there brain into the matrix using a datajack.
"Datajack: A datajack allows a user to directly interface
with any electronic device via a fiberoptic cable"
read the cyberware section. It interfaces via a wire.
The datajack would plug into the comlink. DNI now connected.
Trodes are still a direct wire from the comlink to your skull.
"Trodes—A headband or net worn on the head (often
under a wig or hat) that allows the reception of simsense."
It may not have a wire burrowed into your skull but its still worn on the head.
The Implanted comlink well its an implanted comlink.
Read up on how a sim module is supposed to work.
It translates computer signals (simsense data) into neural signals, allowing the user
to directly experience simsense programs and virtual reality (see Virtual Reality, p. 228). A sim module must be accessed via trodes or a direct neural interface (datajack, implanted commlink, etc).
Sim Modules exist because neural signals can't be transmited wirelessly.
It translates computer signals (simsense data) into neural signals for the brain. As established above.
A sim module is wirelessly enabled. It can accept computer signals wirelessly from a comlink or other source. However that does not mean it can wirelessly transmit neural signals.
If the neural signals could be transmited wirelessly there would be no sim modules as you could sned the neural signal wirelessly to begain with.
no, a datajack explicitly *has* a cord. it does not explicitly *require* a cord. nor do the trodes.
they are both wireless devices, because they don't say they aren't. now certainly, they require physical contact to communicate to the human brain, but they don't require physical contact to the device they are sending and receiving information from. the datajack just so happens to have the equipment for having direct wired connections, but it doesn't need to use that path. optical cable no longer has greater bandwidth than wireless, because wireless has effectively unlimited bandwidth for normal situations. like, say, accessing the matrix via hostim VR.
directly does not have to mean "there's a wire running between them".
they are both wireless devices, because they don't say they aren't. now certainly, they require physical contact to communicate to the human brain, but they don't require physical contact to the device they are sending and receiving information from. the datajack just so happens to have the equipment for having direct wired connections, but it doesn't need to use that path. optical cable no longer has greater bandwidth than wireless, because wireless has effectively unlimited bandwidth for normal situations. like, say, accessing the matrix via hostim VR.
directly does not have to mean "there's a wire running between them".
Jaid what do you think a datajack is for? Oh it doesn't say dermal plating is wireless but notice they had to point that out in the FAQ for people like you. Tell me what does a wireless datajack do? Nothing at all. All a datajack does is allow you to directly access an electronic device via a fiber optic cable. It mentions no other features.
Why do you suppose they require physical contact to talk with the human brain? could it be that you can't send neural signals wirelessly? Which is why a sim module is required to take computer signals and make them neural signals.
Tell me where it says neural signals can be sent wirelessly?
You are use's the prove you don't have WMD's method of reasoning.
Why do you suppose they require physical contact to talk with the human brain? could it be that you can't send neural signals wirelessly? Which is why a sim module is required to take computer signals and make them neural signals.
Tell me where it says neural signals can be sent wirelessly?
You are use's the prove you don't have WMD's method of reasoning.
i know that datajacks include an optical cable. that's beside the point.
the datajack is still also a wireless device. it can transmit data wirelessly as well as by wires.
you have said that neural data cannot be sent wirelessly. prove it. show me a quote that says it can't be sent wirelessly. directly does not mean wirelessly, it just means directly.
or otherwise, perhaps you'd like to explain how an implanted commlink can use an external sim module otherwise? according to the rules this works fine. passing neural signals through the air does not magically change them into something else, any more than passing them through a wire does.
[edit] and trodes DON'T need physical contact with the brain. which pretty much takes your "requires physical contact with the brain" argument, and shoots it out of the air. [/edit]
the datajack is still also a wireless device. it can transmit data wirelessly as well as by wires.
you have said that neural data cannot be sent wirelessly. prove it. show me a quote that says it can't be sent wirelessly. directly does not mean wirelessly, it just means directly.
or otherwise, perhaps you'd like to explain how an implanted commlink can use an external sim module otherwise? according to the rules this works fine. passing neural signals through the air does not magically change them into something else, any more than passing them through a wire does.
[edit] and trodes DON'T need physical contact with the brain. which pretty much takes your "requires physical contact with the brain" argument, and shoots it out of the air. [/edit]
Technomancer sections... 
In all reality, Jack and Charon are right. I dont know why you are being so stubborn about this, Jaid...
In all reality, Jack and Charon are right. I dont know why you are being so stubborn about this, Jaid...
actually, you know what? screw this thread too. i am officially ignoring this thread as well, because this is just a waste of my time too. so forget it, i'm not discussing this anymore. you want to pull rules out of your butt about not being able to wirelessly send neural data, then fine. throw yourself a party. there is no proof that neural data can't be sent wirelessly.
| QUOTE |
| you want to pull rules out of your butt about not being able to wirelessly send neural data, then fine. throw yourself a party. there is no proof that neural data can't be sent wirelessly. |
technically... there are no rules to say that they can.
Not that I'm taking sides in that argument, BUT....
You are the one pulling rules out of your butt in another thread by saying the ultrasound system needs further cyber to make functional to the user. I find it interesting how you can chastise people on this thread for doing the exact same thing you are doing on another! There is a word for doing that, I belive it begins with "H".
| QUOTE (Jaid @ Dec 18 2006, 12:10 AM) |
| ok, wait... are you trying to tell me that a sim module must have a cord inside your head separate from the datajack or something? is that your interpretation of directly? well damn, clearly my characters had better carry around a pickaxe for punching holes in their own head so they can use their sim module, because all this time i've been thinking they could just route the information through their datajack. remind me to never play in a game you run. |
You're trying to be funny or something?
Simsense module - fiberoptic cable - datajack.
That's what it means.
| QUOTE |
| actually, you know what? screw this thread too. i am officially ignoring this thread as well, because this is just a waste of my time too. so forget it, i'm not discussing this anymore. you want to pull rules out of your butt about not being able to wirelessly send neural data, then fine. throw yourself a party. there is no proof that neural data can't be sent wirelessly. |
Poor Jaid, he is the only one to see the truth. How can the rest of the world be so blind?
Of course neural data can be sent wirelessly. How would hack otherwise? The problem is and has always been your claim that you can use your own hot-sim to create an hot-sim situation in someone else who doesn't even have the hardware for it.
What about wired reflex? Can you use your own wire reflex to wirelessly connect to someone else and speed them up?
All right, go throw yourself a pity party. You are a misunderstood genius.
If neural signals could be sent wirelessly why would you have a sim module? You'd just receive and send all data as neural signals. His arguments make the existence of sim modules rather pointless. Also if you look at cyberware DNI isn't wireless and its the alternative to wireless controlled cyberware.
He's wants his hackers to be able to force matrix combat on those not jacked into the matrix.
He's wants his hackers to be able to force matrix combat on those not jacked into the matrix.
| QUOTE (Jack Kain) |
| He's wants his hackers to be able to force matrix combat on those not jacked into the matrix. |
Who cares to guess what kind of PC he prefers?
| QUOTE (Charon) |
| Who cares to guess what kind of PC he prefers? |
An invulnerable superhero.
Now now everyone lets not pick on Jaid. Its not right that we go flaming him and stuff. Now that I've covered by butt good night.
I suggest everyone back off and relax before we start pulling admin aggro.
| QUOTE (Jack Kain) |
| If neural signals could be sent wirelessly why would you have a sim module? You'd just receive and send all data as neural signals. |
Indeed - in the old days, you could enter the matrix 'naked'.
| QUOTE (Jack Kain) |
| His arguments make the existence of sim modules rather pointless. |
No, in fact he's quite right - after hacking someones commlink and trodes/datajack, you can force them into using full simsense imersion.
And some how turn on hot sim even thought the targets sim module is not rigged for hot VR?
And old day deckers would plug there brain diretly in.
And old day deckers would plug there brain diretly in.
| QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig) |
| No, in fact he's quite right - after hacking someones commlink and trodes/datajack, you can force them into using full simsense imersion. |
Even if they have no sim module? Even if they are not capable of VR? I agree that you can hack someone's comm and force them into VR, provided their commlink is capable of going VR. It's that last part people are arguing about.
| QUOTE (Moon-Hawk) |
| Even if they have no sim module? |
To go VR, there has to be a sim module connected to those trodes/datajack/DNI.
It can be connected via cable or wirelessly... and after you have admin access to a commlink, you can connect any sim module you want:
That includes your very own spare hot sim module.
| QUOTE (Moon-Hawk) |
| Even if they are not capable of VR? |
Uh... what case are you refering to?
So basically, under that interpretation, anyone with a datajack can be hacked and killed at any time from anywhere in the world, even if they are not using it or connected to a commlink at the time, correct?
| QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Dec 18 2006, 11:48 AM) |
| To go VR, there has to be a sim module connected to those trodes/datajack/DNI. |
Yes.
| QUOTE |
| It can be connected via cable or wirelessly |
No. Directly. It has to be connected directly. I'm not quoting the passage again! It's in the description of a simsense module, look it up or read the post just ten message ago.
It must be connected directly. That's what the rules say.
The fluff text states that most electronic device can be accessed wirelessly (though it's GMs call to which are or are not wireless capable since you can pretty much remove it if you feel like it) and somehow when they enccounter a device that specifically must be accessed directly as per the rule they can't grasp that this hard rule overrules the fluff text.
And this idea that as long as the simsense module is directly connected to one brain it can then affect any other brain is pure delirium. To go into hot VR each brain needs to be directly connected to its own modified simsense module.
What the heck is so hard to understand? I can't fathom it.
Does "directly" mean physically, or does it just mean without any signal repeating devices in between? I could reasonably see both scenarios applying the word directly.
My computer is connected "directly" to my wireless router, because there are no other devices in between. My PDA is not connected "directly" to said wireless router, because it communicates through the computer.
Seems like a reasonable use of the word.
My computer is connected "directly" to my wireless router, because there are no other devices in between. My PDA is not connected "directly" to said wireless router, because it communicates through the computer.
Seems like a reasonable use of the word.
| QUOTE (Charon @ Dec 18 2006, 07:03 PM) | ||
No. Directly. It has to be connected directly. I'm not quoting the passage again! It's in the description of a simsense module. |
Let me say this softly: No.
The rules of the sim module are not stating any requirement to the connection.
In fact, trodes are wireless, too - and nanotrodes must be wireless.
If you are referring to "to directly experience simsense programs" - that's a figure of speech.
| QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Dec 18 2006, 12:09 PM) |
| The rules of the sim module are not stating any requirement to the connection. In fact, trodes are wireless, too - and nanotrodes must be wireless. |
The wireless are wrapped around your head. Or they don't interact with your brain and you don't go in hot sim.
The can connect wirelessly to your commlink but they connect directly tor your head. Or they are useless.
| QUOTE (Charon @ Dec 18 2006, 07:11 PM) |
| The wireless are wrapped around your head. Or they don't interact with your brain and you don't go in hot sim. The can conenct wirelessly to your commlink but they connect directly over your head. Or they are useless. |
Even the non-wireless ones are wrapped around your head.
And yes, if you are wearing trodes or a datajack that are somehow open on wifi, you can be forced into VR.
The rest is just hopping nodes.
| QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Dec 18 2006, 12:13 PM) |
| And yes, if you are wearing trodes or a datajack that are somehow open on wifi, you can be forced into VR. The rest is just hopping nodes. |
Datajack are just port or basically a plug. They specifically connect by fiberoptic, it's in the rules, it's their whole point. They are not a device, they are just a mean to plug something into your brain, hence the "jack" part of the word.
The trodes can be hacked, it was never denied. But if they are not connected to a simsense module modified for Hot Sim you can't kill the user. And the simsense module needs to be directly connected.
And in many of the cases we were arguing the potential victim didn't even have trodes.
| QUOTE (Charon) |
| Datajack are just port or basically a plug. They specifically connect by fiberoptic, it's in the rules, it's their whole point. |
No... they allow cabel and chip access - but they are wireless-equipped, too... which can be turned off, etc.
If you connect them to something that uses wifi, this just became moot.
| QUOTE (Charon) |
| The trodes can be hacked, it was never denied. But if they are not connected to a simsense module modified for Hot Sim you can't kill the user. |
..and once you hacked them, you hook them up with your own spare hot sim module to fry the poor bastards brain.
It's been my understanding that the trodes, datajack, whatever have to be connected "directly" to a hot-sim module. By "directly", I mean in direct communication with no other nodes in between. I'd allow a wireless connection, provided it was a "direct" (by my definition) wireless connection. If the signal has to go through any device in between, the "hotness" will be lost, unless every intermediate device is also modified for hot sim. In fact, the capability for VR at all would be lost unless all intermediate devices have sim modules.
I'm not saying that I got that interpretation carved into a stone tablet by burning shrubbery, that's just sort of how I figured it worked.
I'm not saying that I got that interpretation carved into a stone tablet by burning shrubbery, that's just sort of how I figured it worked.
That would be a house-rule:
Peak-Control is only done in the sim module, nowhere else.
Peak-Control is only done in the sim module, nowhere else.
| QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Dec 18 2006, 12:25 PM) |
| No... they allow cabel and chip access - but they are wireless-equipped, too... which can be turned off, etc. If you connect them to something that uses wifi, this just became moot. |
Why the hell would you connect a datajack to a wireless device? If the device is wireless it can connect direclty to your image link or any other cyberware and you don't need the datajack in the first place.
It's a plug for fiber optic cable so that you can connect in a wired fashion. You are talking about hacking a plug designed to allow the PC to, for example, conduct mental communications between two datajack linked by fiberoptic that are precisely impossible to hack (And that's one example from the book).
In the equipment section they say essentially that almost every device is wireless enabled but that it's up to a GM to make the final call and they also point out that many time just RFID tag indicating location and status is enough.
It's a big fat case for having no more than a tag unless manufaturer like wasting ressources.
| QUOTE |
| ..and once you hacked them, you hook them up with your own spare hot sim module to fry the poor bastards brain |
But your sim module isn't directly connected to his brain.
What you suggest defies everything about how SR has worked for 17 years. And it's not even a new possibility : Back in the days of wired matrix you could have a decker running a hot ASIST cyberdeck encounter a guy running cold with trode on a lame deck. But it was strictly impossible for the hot shot decker using a powerful Black Hammer to kill the the guy running cold even though he could take over his deck and shoot is allpowerul Hot ASIST powered Black Hammer signal into the poor guy's brain. The worst that could happen is a head ache because the guy was running cold. He couldn't force his opponent into hot ASIST.
Didn't work then and the fact that instead of connecting him through wire you connect wirelessly doesn't make it more likely.
I think it's high time to just write to FANPRO and settle this.
| QUOTE (Charon) |
| Why the hell would you connect a datajack to a wireless device? |
Ask someone else about the 'why', I just stated a case.
| QUOTE (Charon) |
| But your sim module isn't directly connected to his brain. |
Correct. The spare hot sim module isn't.
In fact it can't (unless you swiftly implant it...), as it needs trodes or a datajack, which are directly connected to his brain.
Again: There is no rules-requirement to the kind, distance or routing of the connection between sim module and the trodes/datajack.
Hmm, so where would you direct a rules question?
info@shadowrun.com, Rob Boyle or what?
info@shadowrun.com, Rob Boyle or what?
..I'm pretty sure that question is answered on srrpg.com
I'd like an official answer for this, too. I can certainly see both POVs, and while I still suspect that my interpretation is the intended one, I can't prove it. Either way this gets settled, once it does get settled, someone is going to feel really silly for being so condescending. Not picking on anyone in particular, there's been some self-righteousness on both sides of the debate.
| QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig) |
| ..I'm pretty sure that question is answered on srrpg.com |
If it were, it would have been quoted by now.
Meaning, no, it's not. I've checked.
| QUOTE (Charon) | ||
If it were, it would have been quoted by now. Meaning, no, it's not. I've checked. |
I think he meant the question of where to direct official rules inquiries, not the question of VR-blah-blah.
| QUOTE (Charon) |
| Hmm, so where would you direct a rules question? info@shadowrun.com, Rob Boyle or what? |
Close ... info@shadowrunrpg.com
| QUOTE (Fortune) | ||
Close ... info@shadowrunrpg.com |
Done. To info-srrpg.
And yeah, Moon Hawk, that made more sense...
I was under the impression that you can run wireless DNI, I even asked about it:
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...topic=10301&hl=
Not very interesting thread, though.
I don't understand why people not even try to understand that it is possible to come to different interpretations of the rules, of words like "direct" etc. Its a game, so there is no "proving wrong" and it should be possible to agree to disagree.
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...topic=10301&hl=
Not very interesting thread, though.
I don't understand why people not even try to understand that it is possible to come to different interpretations of the rules, of words like "direct" etc. Its a game, so there is no "proving wrong" and it should be possible to agree to disagree.
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