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Aaron
Well, my campaign's gotten past November, and my players want to know who the new governor of Seattle is going to be. So, of course, I turn to Dumpshock for its ... special brand of wisdom.

Pick an issue. Any issue.
Kyoto Kid
...I would have added one more...

Surviving the day.

I would think that is on a lot of Metroplex citizens' minds.
Aaron
Crap, I forgot Public Safety.

Geez, I feel like Slashdot now ...
BrianL03
Looks like there's some carryover from the 2006 US midterms into Seattle's election system.
Draug
Can't you edit the poll and add in Public Safety?

Or ask a mod to do it. Who knows, maybe one will...
Adam
Poll edited. happy monday!
ShadowDragon
I voted unemployment. In an age where corporate profit is king, layoffs to protect the bottom line are sure to be on the forefront of the average SINer's mind. And no one wants to live in the barrens.
fistandantilus4.0
I went for succession form the UCAS becuase the trickle down form that sort of change can effect so much.
ShadowDragon8685
"Ethics in public officials"

There's only one way to ensure that, and that's to have public officials mind-probed continiously to ensure all their dealings are aboveboard.
Kyoto Kid
QUOTE (Adam)
Poll edited. happy monday!

...thanks, now I can vote.

Yeah, with the various threats in the 6th world & the fact the police are privatised, I'd constantly be looking over my shoulder even on the way down to the corner Stuffer Shack.

Don't know who you can trust.
Banaticus
How often do public shootouts occur? That would have a direct bearing on whether or not most people would pick public safety as the primary campaign issue. What's the general rate of unemployment? That would directly affect whether or not most people would pick unemployement as the primary campaign issue. Without knowing these things, how can we make an informed decision?

The honesty of elected officials would likely be important, but to most people I don't think it would matter as much as unemployment would.
SL James
Damn you for making us choose between the economy and unemployment like they aren't related.
Thane36425
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685)
"Ethics in public officials"

There's only one way to ensure that, and that's to have public officials mind-probed continiously to ensure all their dealings are aboveboard.

There is such as thing as political ethics, but they are a far cry from traditional ethics. Political ethics would read something like: Do unto others before they do unto you, if it increases personal (and maybe party) power it is good, loudly accuse others of doing what you yourself are doing and hope no one notices, blackmail isn't a crime: it is a way of life, kick an opponent when he's down, etc.

Basically take standard ethics and turn them aroun 180 degrees and you have political ethics.
Thane36425
QUOTE (Banaticus)
How often do public shootouts occur? That would have a direct bearing on whether or not most people would pick public safety as the primary campaign issue. What's the general rate of unemployment? That would directly affect whether or not most people would pick unemployement as the primary campaign issue. Without knowing these things, how can we make an informed decision?

The honesty of elected officials would likely be important, but to most people I don't think it would matter as much as unemployment would.

That would depend on where the shootouts happen. In the Barrens, no one would really care. If they happen in Downtown, then there would be a major outcry. Just look at the real world. As long as the violence stayed in the slums or certain crime ridden cities, no one cared. But once it started happening in the merchant districts, then there was a crack down, at least in the commercial areas. This would probably be even more true in SR given that there are slums there that are worse than anything currently in the US.
Faelan
I don't know, Baltimore always struck me as straight out of Shadowrun. Nice little outlying suburbs. Heroin ravaged inner city with a nice quiet corporate center. Businesses move in, areas gentrify, and the little war zones get even worse because you have more competition. Not a very fun place, but the money was good.

I voted for the economy. If things are booming, unemployment drops, taxes don't seem so bad, street violence tends to drop because you can get a job, corporations make nice with the local government, and on the shadowrunner side of things business increases as corporate greed takes off (not that a shadowrunner would be voting). All around good for the sheep and the wolves. I would have to say that the candidates all seem pretty week, so you might wind up with an incumbent victory, after all the bastard you know is better than the one you don't.
Kyoto Kid
QUOTE (Banaticus)
How often do public shootouts occur?  That would have a direct bearing on whether or not most people would pick public safety as the primary campaign issue.  What's the general rate of unemployment?  That would directly affect whether or not most people would pick unemployement as the primary campaign issue.  Without knowing these things, how can we make an informed decision?

The honesty of elected officials would likely be important, but to most people I don't think it would matter as much as unemployment would.

...it's not just gunplay.

...There's spellcasting (which is a lot more subtle, for instance, you could be doing something right now that the mage wants
...Terrorism and Sabotage via the Matrix (no longer do terrorists need to physically take over the flight deck of a plane to fly it into a building or the switch house to switch that express train to the wrong track)
...gangs and gang violence appear to be more prevalent in the future (unless you are one of the lucky ones who live in an A rated neighbourhood).
...and again, law enforcement is managed by a "for profit" corporation which only has to worry about the shareholders' interests (see the thread Shadowrun Police, there are some very interesting observations posted).

Given my current income level, I most likely would find myself living in a C rated neighbourhood at best. Only if something fairly big happened (like a gang rumble, a firefight, or some wacko peppering the area with grenades) would the Star even consider checking things out. The random mugging? not worth the trouble.

Now, make that a random mugging by a Troll against a human.

Yeah, you gotta watch your own back.
SL James
QUOTE (Thane36425)
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685 @ Jan 8 2007, 05:39 PM)
"Ethics in public officials"

There's only one way to ensure that, and that's to have public officials mind-probed continiously to ensure all their dealings are aboveboard.

There is such as thing as political ethics, but they are a far cry from traditional ethics. Political ethics would read something like: Do unto others before they do unto you, if it increases personal (and maybe party) power it is good, loudly accuse others of doing what you yourself are doing and hope no one notices, blackmail isn't a crime: it is a way of life, kick an opponent when he's down, etc.

Basically take standard ethics and turn them aroun 180 degrees and you have political ethics.

...
Fortune
QUOTE (SL James)
...

I have been waiting just for your response to that post. I was really expecting a bit more ... frown.gif
fistandantilus4.0
Maybe James is taking the "If you can't say anything nice.." approach
Kyrn
Money money money...MONEY!

Erk, my voice just cracked trying to hit that high note. Stupid cancer sticks...
Thane36425
QUOTE (Fortune)
QUOTE (SL James @ Jan 9 2007, 12:12 PM)
...

I have been waiting just for your response to that post. I was really expecting a bit more ... frown.gif

Not keen on my cyncial take take on politics? Seems to me that is pretty much how they operate.
SL James
QUOTE (Thane36425)
Seems to me that is pretty much how they operate.

Of course it seems that way.
hyzmarca
QUOTE (Thane36425 @ Jan 8 2007, 06:57 PM)
QUOTE (Banaticus @ Jan 8 2007, 06:16 PM)
How often do public shootouts occur?  That would have a direct bearing on whether or not most people would pick public safety as the primary campaign issue.  What's the general rate of unemployment?  That would directly affect whether or not most people would pick unemployement as the primary campaign issue.  Without knowing these things, how can we make an informed decision?

The honesty of elected officials would likely be important, but to most people I don't think it would matter as much as unemployment would.

That would depend on where the shootouts happen. In the Barrens, no one would really care. If they happen in Downtown, then there would be a major outcry. Just look at the real world. As long as the violence stayed in the slums or certain crime ridden cities, no one cared. But once it started happening in the merchant districts, then there was a crack down, at least in the commercial areas. This would probably be even more true in SR given that there are slums there that are worse than anything currently in the US.

Given the random encounter rate in the Genesis/Megadrive SR game, I'd say two dozen a day throughout Seatle, give or take a few, with three deaths per shootout, give or take one or two.

That adds up to about 73 murders per day or 26,645 murders per year, which is pretty good for a city the size of Seattle.
ShadowDragon8685
Of course, remember that that's 2053.

It's 2070 now, a lot has changed. For one thing, that 2053 adventure is probably a bestselling AR/VR game in 2070.

For another, simsense entertainment has never been so accessable, and after years of basically being ignored by Lone Star, the people have probably voted in a politician who made it very clear that if Lone Star didn't do a better job in the D, C and B zones, Knight-Errant was going to be policing Seattle within a year.

It's probably safe to walk through a C and up zone at night - not exactly a good idea, but unless you turn down a dark alley you stand no sigifnicant risk of getting mugged. D-zones you're still going to want to not stop rolling in, and have all the windows up.

Z-zones, of course, are still warzones.
Aaron
QUOTE (BrianL03 @ Jan 8 2007, 04:56 PM)
Looks like there's some carryover from the 2006 US midterms into Seattle's election system.

And why not? I built the poll from the information about the election given in Runner Havens. If science fiction is supposed to be a reflection of our own times, I think RH does a pretty good job.
ErrosCallidus
Hell, they've even got smear/political campaign slogans in Latin painted on the walls in Roman cities... politics/issues haven't changed much in the last 1500 years, why should it be hugely different approx. 60 years from now?

Well, our thirty second sound bites are easier to decline than your average Latin epithet (Romanii domicibus Ite!!), but that's about the only change.
Grinder
QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0)
Maybe James is taking the "If you can't say anything nice.." approach

Are we talking about the same guy here? grinbig.gif
ChicagosFinest
Metahuman encroachment at 0 huh? No one cares about the minorities not even the minorities themselfs biggrin.gif.

external relations with other contries and the corps have to be it. Get them to clean up (in many ways than one) and take care of your own. The problem is I dont think it could happen with so many seperate nations because they have to rely on each other to get resources. Thats one reason America is turning into a second teir nation in the past we didnt have to rely on other contries to give us things because we had everything we needed.

Draug
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
That adds up to about 73 murders per day or 26,645 murders per year, which is pretty good for a city the size of Seattle.

Uhm... That seems a good bit over the top, even for a violent city like Seattle...
Grinder
That's twice as much as the USA have per year iirc. Wow.
2bit
It's only been 5 years since terrorists detonated a nuke on UCAS soil and brought down our economic infrastructure. Public safety would be at the very top of my list. I don't see how anyone could be thinking secession. Seattle needs the protection of the UCAS now more than ever.
SL James
QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0)
Maybe James is taking the "If you can't say anything nice.." approach

Not really.

QUOTE (Aaron)
QUOTE (BrianL03 @ Jan 8 2007, 04:56 PM)
Looks like there's some carryover from the 2006 US midterms into Seattle's election system.

And why not? I built the poll from the information about the election given in Runner Havens. If science fiction is supposed to be a reflection of our own times, I think RH does a pretty good job.

HAHAHAHAHA

QUOTE (2bit)
It's only been 5 years since terrorists detonated a nuke on UCAS soil and brought down our economic infrastructure.  Public safety would be at the very top of my list.  I don't see how anyone could be thinking secession.  Seattle needs the protection of the UCAS now more than ever.

Unless they choose the corps to secure their independence, which tried their damndest to everything to stop the attack. Or unless they take refuge with the Salish-Shidhe Council and PCC - neither of which suffered such a physical attack. The former also was waging war against the country that was effectively providing refuge to Hel, the other Winternight base. I mean, dude, the UCAS was incapable of protecting its own capital from a nuclear attack, and then in a heightened state of emergency suffered a coup d'etat which culled half the people listed in the Presidential Succession Act.

At this point, being annexed by California looks more attractive than throwing their lot in with the UCAS.
Kyoto Kid
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685)
Of course, remember that that's 2053.

It's 2070 now, a lot has changed. For one thing, that 2053 adventure is probably a bestselling AR/VR game in 2070.

For another, simsense entertainment has never been so accessable...

...all the more.

in RL, cell phones have become a major distraction behind the wheel. According to the AAA a couple years ago, there were more accidents attributed to cell phone use than to drunk driving. Some countries have even banned phone use while driving.

Now, add simsense to the mix and stir...

As to City Hall coming down on the the Star to better police the neighbourhoods, in our group, the election has occurred. It will be business as usual for the next six years.

Even if KE did take over and things were get cleaned up at first, I give it a couple years at best before everything will be back to where it was. KE is the only other major provider of law enforcement services. Once complacency sets in again, who else would there be to go to?
eidolon
I have a question regarding the poll. Am I a shadowrunner in 2070, or a corporate drone, or what? It would drastically alter my answer I think.

Or do you mean "me" as in "me myself and I, as though my life were just up and placed in 2070"?
Aaron
QUOTE (eidolon)
I have a question regarding the poll. Am I a shadowrunner in 2070, or a corporate drone, or what? It would drastically alter my answer I think.

Or do you mean "me" as in "me myself and I, as though my life were just up and placed in 2070"?

While shadowrunners generally get more votes (one per SIN, in fact), I doubt that the shadowrunner vote is going to be particularly weighty. So, probably not a shadowrunner.

But I'll take either you transplanted, you as you imagine you'd be, you as you'd imagine you'd like to be, or something similar. You're a gamer; be creative.
Demerzel
Hah. Yea, where’s the option that says if I lived in 2070 I’d be a BTL addict laying in some gutter but living the high life in my head…
Thane36425
AR would have to be really distracting, all those things popping up in your field of vision all the time. That would be bad enough on the streets, behind the wheel it would be terrible.

The worst murder rates during the height of the crack epidemic were around 2,000 deaths per year in the big cities. SR would probably be a little higher given how bad some places are, but I don't think it would be much more than double that.

As for what I would do in 2070, if I was a mage, I'd work for a small company setting up astral barriers or freelance doing the same. 100 nuyen and hour's not bad pay. Then I'd save up money, buy a permantant middle or high lifestyle and go to the CAS where it is cheaper to live. If mundane, I'd still probably go to the CAS, live in a smallish town and keep away from the big city crime.
BrianL03
QUOTE (Thane36425)
As for what I would do in 2070, if I was a mage, I'd work for a small company setting up astral barriers or freelance doing the same. 100 nuyen and hour's not bad pay. Then I'd save up money, buy a permantant middle or high lifestyle and go to the CAS where it is cheaper to live. If mundane, I'd still probably go to the CAS, live in a smallish town and keep away from the big city crime.

Something tells me that that 100 nuyen/hour isn't covering the cost of materials for spell research, conjuring spirits/elementals, access to spell formulae, and ad nauseum.

And the problem with the mundane CAS solution is that such a response is the everyman's solution. If it is considered the rule that if you do it, other people will as well, we see the reason why the sprawl extends so far in 2070.
eidolon
QUOTE (Aaron)
You're a gamer; be creative.

Actually, I'm a meat popsicle.

I'd vote, but if it's supposed to be me in 2070, none of those would be the top of my list.
Thane36425
QUOTE (BrianL03)
Something tells me that that 100 nuyen/hour isn't covering the cost of materials for spell research, conjuring spirits/elementals, access to spell formulae, and ad nauseum.

And the problem with the mundane CAS solution is that such a response is the everyman's solution. If it is considered the rule that if you do it, other people will as well, we see the reason why the sprawl extends so far in 2070.

If you worked 6 hours a day (includes travel time between jobs and a lunch break, assuming one is only paid while actually putting up the barriers), 5 days a week and 42 weeks of the year, that would be: 600 x 5 x 42 = 126,000 nuyen per year. That's not bad money. Runners might make more, but they also have more expenses like fake SINs, multiple residences, extra security and so on. Or more concern would be the slower accumulation of Karma, which would be more of a hinderance than the cashflow.

Fortune
I could definitely see the Succession issue being the kind of thing that really polarizes the voting public. Whether a person is for or against the move, it would still have a dramatic bearing on their life, and would very likely color the way they voted in this specific election.
Bashfull
First post! (don't frag up, don't frag up, don't fra gup, do'nut farg pu...drek!)

You must remember that you're running a human only election campaign on here. How are you going to factor in the metahuman vote? I'd assume most metas would vote against Brackhaven. Probably for the (hitherto unexposed) mental health case the mafia are trying to sink. We also don't know what surprises the writers are going to throw in the way of the electoral process, or even whether it'll be fair.
Kyoto Kid
...Secession would have been my next concern particularly in light of the TT mess and all those council members & nobles jumping ship like the rats they are. Without the UCAS backing the Metroplex government anymore. it would be an open slate.

...so why did Lofie pull up stakes back in 63? Where's Ehran, Oakforest, Surehand? And why the drek is Hestaby now fraternising with her former enemy?

...makes one wonder...

SL James
Not really.

I think Seattle should become a part of the American-Russian Alliance.
apollo124
I voted in the poll, but here are two other choices...

The most important issue is..

That story that Newsnet (or other media outlet of choice) has been covering for several weeks. Never forget the power of the media to hype or silence a story.

Magic/spirits/Awakened creatures and phenomena. I mean, a great Dragon got elected President of the UCAS a few years back and got (apparently) assassinated before he could sleep in the White House, the dead are walking, and another dragon just took over the city of Denver in, like, 2 weeks.
ChicagosFinest
Any body see children of men? Seattle should be like that biggrin.gif
SL James
It used to be. You know, back when there was some cyberpunk in Shadowrun.
NightmareX
QUOTE (SL James)
Unless they choose the corps to secure their independence, which tried their damndest to everything to stop the attack. Or unless they take refuge with the Salish-Shidhe Council and PCC - neither of which suffered such a physical attack. The former also was waging war against the country that was effectively providing refuge to Hel, the other Winternight base. I mean, dude, the UCAS was incapable of protecting its own capital from a nuclear attack, and then in a heightened state of emergency suffered a coup d'etat which culled half the people listed in the Presidential Succession Act.

At this point, being annexed by California looks more attractive than throwing their lot in with the UCAS.

And the UCAS is just going to let its only remaining Pacific port sucede without using military force to bring it back to the fold. Right. Is the SSC going to help when that happens? After fighting a major war with and still occupying Tsimshian? I think not. They'll broker a nice little deal with the UCAS, get some perks out of it, and let the whole deal go down. And Seattle becomes another Baghdad under martial law until the UCAS feel like letting up.

Hell, odds are the New Revolution is fronting the money for the successionist movement to create just such a scenario so they can get more troops in place to eventually strike at the NAN.
Grinder
I doubt that any NAN-nation will give permission for UCAS troops to move through.
SL James
QUOTE (NightmareX @ Jan 10 2007, 04:23 PM)
And the UCAS is just going to let its only remaining Pacific port sucede without using military force to bring it back to the fold.  Right.

"And the United States is just going to let Hawai'i secede, which is the headquarters of the Pacific Fleet and houses bases for all branches, without using military forces to bring it back to the fold? Right."

And yet that's exactly what they did. Although for good measure Ares reminded the Navy that it could kill a carrier battle group within a few seconds just to make sure this point was crystal clear: Hawai'i is seceding and fuck you if you think you can stop it.
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