SL James
Jan 20 2007, 07:34 PM
QUOTE (CD @ 41) |
How do they do it? Three words: P—freaking—R. The Azzies have an amazing Public Relations machine. All the megacorps run morally questionable secret operations, but only Aztechnology seems to repeatedly survive the exposure of them unscathed. Most non-shadow denizens don't even understand the Big Ac connection to Aztlan (more on that later), and those who do don't appear to care. This makes Aztechnology dangerous because it can get away with murder (literally); the average consumer will buy Aztech products anyway. Whether you consider it brand loyalty, spin doctoring or consumer brainwashing, Aztechnology has mastered it. |
QUOTE |
>New to this, aren't ya? Check this: When those grisly trid shots were released in the CAS and UCAS that implicated Aztechnology soldiers as responsible for the Campeche massacre, the Azzies' market share in those countries rose slightly. The same thing happened when the news broke in Europe. Sad though it is, Aztechnology's PR people have the general public well in hand. > Ranger
> Did you ever notice that when some bad stink about some Aztechnology operation hits the news, their subsidiaries suddenly unleash a media blitz about some great new and improved products? The standard consumer retains the bad news for about five seconds, then forgets all about it. > Garbonzo Bean |
mfb
Jan 20 2007, 11:44 PM
ah. we were both right.
Fortune
Jan 21 2007, 12:18 AM
QUOTE (mfb) |
ah. we were both right. |
Works for me.
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And thanks, James.
SL James
Jan 21 2007, 01:26 AM
No problem.
Sphynx
Jan 22 2007, 08:42 AM
Ok, here's my current projects and ideas.
The Wireless stuff which I've posted the pdf rules for, no comments so I assume, no objections?
Magic Build Point System which will include some changes from the current list of rules.
Psionics. Breaking them down into 3 categories for ClairSentients, Telekinetics, and Telepaths, with the following rules.
- ClairSentients cost 2BP and can cast only Detection Spells. Their ThoughtForms replace Psychokinesis with Concealability. Targets receive no Resistance Roll unless they are aware that the ClairSentient is attempting a Detection spell on them.
- Telekinetic cost 2BP and can cast only Telekinetic Manipulation spells. They reduce Target Modifiers for Sustaining a Telekinetic Manipulation spell by 2, which is compatable with Focused Concentration. This reduces ONLY the target modifier, not the target number. Means that a Telekinetic with Focused Concentration can sustain 2 spells without any negative modifier to their TNs.
- Telepaths cost 2BP and can cast only Control Manipulation spells. Their ThoughtForms replace Psychokinesis with Confusion and Fear. They receive -1 to the Drain Level of Control Manipulation spells.
Also working on rules for Greater Thought Forms and other MetaPhysical Techniques from Initiating. Including more info on the Gestalt effect.
Nordic Runes: No real thoughts yet.
Half-Races: No real thoughts yet.
MFB: If you don't mind, in addition to you working out and testing the Decking options some, would you mind checking into ways to 'Hack' the wireless stuff I posted in my PDF?
Sir Psycho: I assume you're working on the Edges/Flaws?
Sphynx
Jan 22 2007, 12:57 PM
Half-Race ideas.....
I'm thinking currently of allowing 4 half races (in order to avoid the confussion of dwarf-orcs, etc). I want it simple so the choice is purely for theme not numbers. Initial idea is:
5BP for a HalfRace, you gain the visual bonus (either Thermographic or LowLight) and half (rounded down) of the bonuses. So, a HalfElf would have LowLight and +1 Charisma, and a TallDwarf would have +1 Strength and Thermographic. Initial thought was also no negative attributes. Opinions?
Maybe allow the purchase of up to 2 HalfRaces? So an Elven Dwarf would get +1 Charisma, +1 Strength, and both visions? Too much for the 10BP?
Sphynx
Jan 22 2007, 02:05 PM
One Character Sheet down (subject to change depending on rule changes)
TelekineticistThe description was too spur of the moment and sucks majorly (not to mention a couple of typos), it'll be completely rewritten at some point.
Sphynx
Jan 24 2007, 12:51 PM
Well, I'm assuming from the lack of input this project has become a solo-project. No biggie, I plan to write 1 page per day in my spare time. Means about 6 months total plus the time to do some graphics. Anyhows, on the chance anyone's keeping up on things, I'm working on the
Magic Game Information right now. I'll post on the main board for ideas. I think people forget (or ignore) the fact that this sub-forum is here.
Sir_Psycho
Jan 25 2007, 02:44 PM
I'm still interested, and willing to help. In some spare time I've been trying to get y head around flaws/rules for addiction (specifically cigarettes), and so far it's leaning towards different amounts of points for how many packs a day/week you're doing, and small modifiers to TN's when you don't have a drag in a while, although I'm still having trouble.
I was also thinking of aa magic edge similar to cracker/choker for matrix, giving a 1+ dice or -1 target number for spells of a specific type (not stackable with totem bonuses/disadvantages), although it might be too powerful. Also, I wouldn't mind a (sort of) magic version of Natural Hardening, giving +1 dice for drain resistance tests. Just putting it out there.
As for opinions, I'll admit half-races makes me feel quite squeamish though.
Sphynx
Jan 25 2007, 02:53 PM
Other possible Edges/Flaws: One Eye (rules are already out there for the Cyclopi), Dual Natured, Weapons Expert (reduce penalty for defaulting?), etc.
As for your current ideas, +1 Dice is less abuseable than -1TN for casting spells (I see no reason for it to not stack with other modifiers, but should only work for 'casting', not 'drain'), and I like the magical hardening idea as well (though the names are obviously a work-in-progress
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)
Sir_Psycho
Jan 26 2007, 12:15 AM
I'm really thinking of Shamans here, because if you give a wolf Shaman the edge to combat spells, they've just became a Fenrir shaman with 2+ to detection. So yeah I like -TN better, and that I would feel more comfortable giving to Shamans.
Sphynx
Jan 26 2007, 07:24 AM
Considering most spell-throwers tend to roll about 10 dice to cast, a -1TN is roughly the equivalent of +2 successes. +2 dice on the other hand is only about 50% likely to gain +1 success. For the sake of 'balance', nothing we add in this book should make it a requirement for a min-maxxed character. If we have an unbalanced book, people aren't going to accept it in their games.
As for the half-races, I'm half-way in agreeance with you. Obviously an Troll-Dwarf combo could just be nuts. Orcs are already the rough equivalent between Troll and Human, so what do you think of only having 3 half races? Half-Elf, Half-Dwarf, and Half-Orc? Give them all visual bonuses and a simple +1 to a single attribute? (Charisma, Strength, and Body respectively)....
Kagetenshi
Jan 26 2007, 11:45 AM
Why include half-races, out of interest?
~J
Sphynx
Jan 26 2007, 12:40 PM
Well, the idea came up back when we were allowed to Surge. We had a guy 'surge' into a Half-Elf, and why not? SRComp already lets' you use metavariants, and that's all it really is. And honestly, Half-Elves (or half-anythings) fit more into theme than blue-furries...
Basically, just ideas we threw around at some point are what I am focusing my books on. That was just one of the first ones I remembered throwing around.
Kyoto Kid
Jan 27 2007, 01:51 AM
...the basic concept of SURGE has opened the door for some more than just genetic mutations. In my campaign setting there is a new form of "awakening" that I am experimenting with. Won't say what it is for now since I will be doing a re-run of the scenario in which it appears.
nezumi
Jan 28 2007, 02:38 AM
I was talking with my wife about SR3R and SOTA65 and she said she would love to help, specifically by contributing art. She's a professional freelance web visual graphics design artist person fellow who draws pictures. I told her that guns are a popular thing, and even though they aren't her preferred style, she'd be happy to do her own research, sketch stuff up and, of course, get feedback. However, anything else people feel as being valid (racial profiles, vehicles, dragons, whatever) she'll go for. All she has to know is what needs to be done. Of course, she is limited in how much she can do, since it takes a few hours to do a complete picture.
She's put some sketches up here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/11139177@N00/(Yes, there are pictures of me too. I'm sure everyone will be surprised to see I'm not really a 6'11", 240lb troll named Brock.)
So people are aware, some of the pictures have b00b13s and may not be appropriate for work, unless your boss is a guy and can also appreciate a good b00b13 when he sees one.
So yes, if people have a suggestion on what she should draw, go ahead and give it. If people decide the drawing is not up to snuff, you can not include it or she can fix it given solid criticism.
Sir_Psycho
Jan 28 2007, 03:23 AM
I definately think SOTA65 should include boobies.
Sphynx
Jan 28 2007, 09:59 AM
Personally, I'd be more interested, if she can, in seeing art for the various 'gear' selections. Wireless Datajack, CommLinks, ImageGlasses or even Monocles (squarish and further away from the eye than glasses), maybe even what an External Transducer looks like (and yes, definitely a CredStick too
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)
nezumi
Jan 28 2007, 03:28 PM
She says that'd be cool. I grabbed some comments people wrote on page 2 of this thread.
Wireless datajack - should be pretty obvious. Does it include a standard datajack too?
Commlinks - like in SR4, but less advanced, right?
Imageglasses and monocle - looks like it sounds like, right?
External transducer - I assume this the non-cyber version of the transducer, so it would hook on somewhere around the jaw?
Commlink -
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I'll see if SR3R changes the rules at all first ;P
Overall she says she'd be happy to do it.
She also suggested something else of interest, the idea of taking the nanobots you use to install a datajack and get similar nanobots that would rewire the brain or hardware to do crazy stuff. You could introduce the nanobots through the food supply or some such.
Also she asked if the wireless datajack will double as the internal radio or phone hardware already available?
Sphynx
Jan 28 2007, 04:47 PM
Wireless Datajack, in 2065 it should look a bit like a Wireless for a modern-day PC. A cell-phone antenae sticking out of the head sort of deal. The inside part looking like a usb, but round instead of rectangle (at least in my opinion, artist opinions are oft better).
CommLinks, I think they'd look a bit like a large cellphone, or forearm computer. Bigger than an IPod, and thought put into transportability.
Image Glasses/Monocle, yepers.
External Transducer. No idea. It still requires a Datajack to use, so obviously a wire or antenae for the new Wireless Era. BlueTooth head-set with an antenae? Again, artist concepts are usually bettter than the ideas thrown at them.
CredStick, of course, in a wireless setting, that might change completely. After all, who needs a cred stick when you're transmitting wireless info all the time? Basically, you're transmitting your own IP address to everyone, and can now, via a datajack or the commlink, verify expenditures from your back account. No 'hard' credsticks needed really. Exceptions being for illegal services of course. I think they should look like USB Mem Sticks with a digitalish display of their 'worth'. So, you'd hand someone a stick with a display showing it's holding 5,000
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Wouldn't need it for any other purpose that I can think of once a person goes Wireless....
ElFenrir
Jan 28 2007, 09:11 PM
QUOTE |
Also, something I've been wanting to see for awhile, some pre-fab characters like in the original SR3 book, but using gear and ideas from all the books (Changeling, Bioware, Etc) |
During the winter months, i tend to have a lot of free time on my hands. I like this idea, and i'd be willing to attempt to crank out some archetypes. I read thru the thread, not sure if you want to use full Build Point for this, Priority, Sum to 10, BeCKS, all or some of the above, but i'd be willing to take a gander at this. I have some classic ideas in my head for prefabs, and also some not so classic ideas that are a bit out there, but you never know. I had them on my old personal site, but i closed this years ago. I still have some around though.
Again, cool ideas going on here. But hit me back if youre interested in seeing some prefabs. I could always type them up and send them or whatnot, or post them, or whatever. I need some project to get me creative again and keep me away from TBC.
Sphynx
Jan 29 2007, 08:09 AM
As stated ElFenrir, the Archetypes should all include at least some rule from this project, such as my posted Archetype (Half-Elf Telekinetic Psionicist) that I did on 125BP. If you can do that, the layout should be exactly like in the books. Ie JPGs with full character image, black side and bottom, stats on side, description on bottom.
ElFenrir
Jan 29 2007, 01:42 PM
Gotcha. Well, i shall see what i can come up with on paper first, then hit the Photoshop.
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Finding pictures to match these might be interesting. Well, some good artists here there are...
Sir_Psycho
Jan 30 2007, 10:17 AM
I did some thinking and rolling on those Magic drain resistance edges, and decided it was best to divide them into:
(work-in-progress names)
Mana hardening - 3 points.
Characters with Mana Hardening are more resistant to Sorcery drain. Mana Hardening provides 1 additional die for Sorcery Drain resistance tests.
Spirit Hardening - 3 points
Characters with Spirit Hardening have the same extra die as those with Mana Hardening, except that it applies to Conjuring drain resistance tests instead.
Characters may not take both Mana Hardening and Spirit Hardening.
Sphynx
Jan 30 2007, 02:49 PM
I like both, but I think maybe 2 points. I personally wouldn't buy them for 3 points. Bonus Attribute is 2BP, part-time attribute for 3 seems rough. For 3 points, if you want to keep the value, maybe offer an Astral Armour value of 1 against either Spells or Spirit attacks (dependant on the hardening you have of course).
nezumi
Jan 30 2007, 02:59 PM
Something I was considering...
CP2020 (and really, most other cyberpunk games) have external frames or power armor. At the lowest level, this is just an aluminum frame the person wears, outfitted with gyros and motors to help lift objects he otherwise wouldn't be able to move (we've seen this IRL with the walker leg supports they made for army troops a few years back). At the upper level, it's 9 feet of hardened vehicle armor that fills in the role between troop and vehicles.
I was considering this last night and thought I'd be willing to make up rules for it. The problem is neither SR3 or SR4 (officially) has them, so obviously it would be moving well outside of established canon.
Would you like me to write up a few pages on this? Or is it better nixed?
Jrayjoker
Jan 30 2007, 03:06 PM
QUOTE (nezumi) |
Something I was considering...
CP2020 (and really, most other cyberpunk games) have external frames or power armor. At the lowest level, this is just an aluminum frame the person wears, outfitted with gyros and motors to help lift objects he otherwise wouldn't be able to move (we've seen this IRL with the walker leg supports they made for army troops a few years back). At the upper level, it's 9 feet of hardened vehicle armor that fills in the role between troop and vehicles.
I was considering this last night and thought I'd be willing to make up rules for it. The problem is neither SR3 or SR4 (officially) has them, so obviously it would be moving well outside of established canon.
Would you like me to write up a few pages on this? Or is it better nixed? |
I know someone who would simultaneously drool, wet themselves, and have an "O" if you were to take the time to make rules and let him playtest them.
Kagetenshi
Jan 30 2007, 03:16 PM
This is the internet. You can say "orgasm" here.
~J
Sphynx
Jan 30 2007, 04:44 PM
Hmmm, Power Armour. I'm completely ok with the idea, but it should be written in a manner that discourages it for "shadowruns". Ie: No stealth rolls while wearing it, base TN of 4 to detect you if you're trying to be stealthy.
It doesn't go against Shadowrun concepts, but is something you expect the resistance to wear, not the runners. Also, I think it should be clearly stated that the Strength bonus is for lifting only, and treat it as Bone Lacing for using in Close Combat. However, those are just ideas and opinions. It doesn't have to be written like that for me to add it, those are just how I'd do it.
Kagetenshi
Jan 30 2007, 05:19 PM
IMO it's a bad idea to have a "no stealth rolls while wearing" rule. Just give it appropriate negative modifiers to stealth tests (or bonuses to perception tests to detect, as desired).
~J
Sphynx
Jan 30 2007, 05:48 PM
Except Stealth is Open Ended. Maybe put a Threshold on the Open Ended test... Ie: You need to exceed the Perception test with more than 1 of your rolls....
nezumi
Jan 30 2007, 08:36 PM
I was considering this. There would be several factors that come into play:
The external frame and power armor would decrease your overall speed. This limits your maximum running speed as well as your initiative. A legs-only frame only effects your running speed. This would not have any effect on astral or matrix initiative, obviously.
The larger frames and power suits would make noise. While the character can still be stealthy, anyone around them has to make a roll against a flat TN to hear the suit. So yeah, he might not be able to find you, but the constant "pffssshhhh pfffsshhhh" of pneumatics as you move tells him someone is there.
Much like the gyro suit, both frames give penalties in melee combat and to certain tests (like escape artist and athletics). Of course, if you're in a power armor suit, you're generally not especially worried about someone hitting you with a club. It's got vehicle armor.
All of these will have very high availability and cost. They're basically meant only for the military to tote around very heavy weapons. The external frames might possibly be available for cargo loading, but the only real advantage they'd have for a runner is they can carry out more loot and perhaps gyro-stabilization. It would largely only apply strength bonuses to non-melee strength tests (and we all know how many of those there are). So they'd be useful in some cases, but they wouldn't be uber, and it would help those people who feel there should be mech suits, but who would want to make them super powerful.
Sir_Psycho
Jan 31 2007, 01:21 AM
Shouldn't they have a strength bonus? I want to crush some-one's face with piston-enhanced punches! Although obviously we don't want this to be crazy gundam style with rocket-boosters and such.
Actually, should we have rocket packs in SOTA65? That would b hilarious, and I'm sure they'd have the technology to make them work better than they do now, and be slightly more compact.
Sphynx
Jan 31 2007, 05:04 AM
Sir_Psycho, that's the difference between Stun and Physical.
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Nezumi, sounds good.
Sphynx
Jan 31 2007, 11:04 AM
BTW, for anyone doing art for the book, the page dimensions are the same as the books. This is a change from earlier where I started at 1024px wide.
Full pages are done 215mm wide, 280mm high, or 2539px x 3307px. Images should take that into consideration. Every page is written as a PSD so editting can be done later, and so it's easier to wrap words around non-square images without an inline setting. There are over 20 pages done on the book, pre-art. I imagine that number will get alot higher especially once we add art. Text is written in Francis font except for headers which are done in, I believe, Futura (I'll have to double check).
I never got comments from anyone on some of the ideas, primarily (my biggest concern since I don't want to seem to favor my favorite type of character) Psionicist. I assume there were no objections over the Magic BP since the core-thread had nothing but compliments from the days back when Doc Funkenstein started it. The Magic chapter is nearly completed.
I've opted to forego the Norse Magic idea, maybe next year in the 2066 edition. The Wireless stuff needs some serious discussion especially from a 'hacker' point of view. I think mjb has ironed out his Tracker/Logger idea for the Hackers chapter, just needs a clean writing. Advanced Character Generation with more Edges/Flaws and Half-Races/Metatypes wil be the next area I work on more seriously.
Sphynx
Jan 31 2007, 01:21 PM
BTW, if you're still interested in leaving comments, I've posted up the psd's for the first few pages of the Psychic on my site:
Page 1Page 2Page 3I won't promise that any comment suggested will be added, it's got to be in-theme and not anti-book (Ie: No comments about how gay psychic rules are
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), but I will do my best.
You think I should open a Comments thread for this? Or post here?
nezumi
Feb 1 2007, 10:45 PM
I've begun doing some work, haven't finished. I plan on reviewing and adding a fourth suit, a purely industrial one like what we saw in the movie Aliens. As you can tell, even though they will be useful, none of them are really appropriate for Shadowruns. If you are using one, you probably are already using security armor and MMGs anyway, so it shouldn't seriously hurt your game.
[ Spoiler ]
Ares Packhorse ™ Linear Frame
The Ares Packhorse is the cutting edge in Linear Frame technology. Using a high-density aluminum frame wrapped around the user’s legs and operated through discrete servos and gyros, it can take the load off when carrying the heaviest pack through the thickest terrain. Its patented “Perpetual Motion” technology insures that battery recharging is never required, and it has been tested for the most extreme rugged conditions. Knowing the conditions troops sometimes find themselves in, it can synergize with the medium or large Ares Rucksack, creating a convenient upright stretcher and head brace, to allow for easy medical transport when vehicles are not available.
Game Information:
This device adds +2 to the user’s strength for the purposes of calculating encumbrance only. While worn, the user’s maximum quickness for the purpose of running is capped at 4. This is not compatible with Kid Stealth legs or cyberskates. The device can be disabled with a Complex Action by removing a pin in each knee. This removes all benefits and drawbacks of the Packhorse.
Name Weight Availability Cost Street Index Legal
Packhorse Linear Frame 12 12/2 weeks $40,000 3 5-W
>>>>>[That perpetual motion thing is crap. It’s just a free-hanging weight on a dynamo. Generates power from your movement. They used to put those sorts of things in watches. Not enough power to light a night light constantly, although I guess this is a bit more passive than that.]<<<<<
-
>>>>>[Not real useful if you ask me. Alright, now you can carry out a few thousand more nuyen in gear to sell, but that’s no good if you can’t run to the door when things get hot.]<<<<<
>>>>>[Maybe not useful in your line of biz. Try trekking a month’s worth of food on your back through the middle of Amazonia. Thing pays for itself in chiropractor bills alone then.]<<<<<
Ares Samson™ Linear Frame
Ares continues to outperform the competition with its Samson™ full body linear frame. This rigid exoskeleton contains all the strength of a troll without the attitude. In addition to the increased load-bearing ability of the user, it is outfitted to serve as a gyro stabilization unit for any standard firearm, and comes pre-equipped for Smartlink users (compatible with Smartlink 1, Smartlink 2 and Smartgoggles systems). Unlike conventional gyro stabilization, this frame interacts with the wearer via his datajack, allowing it to move comfortably with him like a second skin, eliminating the unfortunate restrictions of conventional gyro mounts. It comes with Ares’ patented “Perpetual Motion” technology, as well as a backup battery. The Samson linear frame turns even the weakest member of the squad into a hero.
Game information:
This device adds +3 to the user’s strength for all purposes, including determining the size of weapon a character may wield and melee damage. It reduces quickness to a maximum of 4 for determining running speed, and takes 4 combat turns to remove or disable. It offers 6 points of recoil compensation, and has a built in Smartlink connection and goggles. While worn, it confers a +1 to all target numbers in melee combat and reduces combat pool by one quarter. If the user connects to the device using anything less than a datajack, the penalty is +2 to all target numbers in melee combat and combat pool is reduced by one half. Unlike the Packhorse, this unit uses pneumatics. Anyone in the area may make a Perception test with a base target number of 6 to hear the linear frame in use while the user is moving. It counts as 1/1 armor, but can be comfortably worn over any non-security armor.
Name Weight Availability Cost Street Index Legal
Samson Linear Frame 19 16/1 month $60,000 4 3-W
>>>>>[Awesome! Finally I can crush the heads of my enemies without blowing all my nuyen on cyberlimbs!]<<<<<
>>>>>[Think again. You gotta catch ‘em first, remember? Sure, it’s great at what it’s made to do, but you’re going to be slow and loud while doing it. I don’t think toting an MMG around is worth it when you can’t hide and can’t run.]<<<<<
>>>>>[This stuff is made mostly for things like anti-tank units and small anti-personnel gun nests. They cart around a lot of heavy gear into odd spots, then sit there for hours. This lets them change positions quickly and deal with the recoil when they get there.]<<<<<
Ares Goliath™ External Power Frame
The Goliath™ is the ultimate in infantry technology. In the bridge between men and vehicles stands Goliath. Goliath is a fully encasing external power frame, impervious to most small arms fire, but small enough to evade anti-vehicular weapons. It has the versatility of a man, but the strength of a tank. It sports all the tools the modern troop has come to see as necessary, in addition to the tremendous boost in strength and armor and the built-in heavy weapons mounts. Whether clearing rooms or transporting heavy weapons, Goliath puts the power in your hands.
Game information:
The driver may engage in most activities he would normally be able to do with his hands, at a +4 penalty due to the ungainliness of the oversized hands. In addition to this penalty, he cannot use his combat pool for any purpose except firing firearms mounted on his suit. He has an effective strength of 10. Goliath does not stack with any other form of armor. The Goliath has enough battery power to operate constantly for 4 hours. During this time, entering Goliath takes 5 minutes (or rushed in 15 Complex Actions). Leaving takes 2 minutes (or 5 Complex Actions). Once the battery has run down, leaving takes 10 minutes (or 20 Complex Actions). It adds one meter to the user’s height and weighs approximately 1,500 kilograms. This vehicle is only available for human-sized drivers.
Hand. Speed Accel Body Armor Sig Autonav Pilot Sensor Cargo
Goliath 4/4 10 4 2 5 4 0 - 2 1
Load Seating SI Avail Cost
20 1 4 16/6 months $250,000
Goliath has a Gas enviroseal and enough air for four man-hours. It has one smartlink-equipped hardpoint and rigger and datajack adaptations, but comes with no conventional controls.
>>>>>[Holy drek… Am I dreaming?]<<<<<
>>>>>[You wish. Sure, it looks nice now, but admit it, there’s no way you’ll ever get a chance to use it, and there’s always that chance that your target might. Trust me, this thing is bad news. If the closest you get to this is seeing it on the trid, you’ve still gotten too close.]<<<<<
>>>>>[Eh… It doesn’t fly, so stairs will stop it just like they stop every other ground vehicle.]<<<<<<
>>>>>[Think again. Unless the stairs break, it can keep following you until the battery runs out. You think you’re up to dodging auto-cannon fire for four hours? Because I’m sure not.]<<<<<
Thoughts? I'll leave the Shadowtalk names and formatting to some other poor fool
Sphynx
Feb 2 2007, 07:09 AM
Initially, every thing seems cool. Gimme 24 hours to mull over it though.
nezumi
Feb 4 2007, 03:14 PM
I've finished my fourth frame. Unfortunately, it's taken a lot more space to write out than I hoped (the previous three were one page each). This, of course, is the first draft. I'm going to put them all away and read over them again next week to straighten them out, but I'd like to hear your comments first.
[ Spoiler ]
Ares Mule™ Construction Frame
The Mule™ is the multi-purpose work horse for any industry that requires the ability to engage in heavy labor with delicate precision. Whether the job is to drill through a meter of plasticrete within two millimeters of precision, or to carefully maneuver a 500 kilogram crate onto the top shelf, the Mule can do it all quickly and easily, without the need for additional vehicles. The Mule boasts an 800 kilo reinforced steel frame with oversized limbs to house the strongest pneumatics on the market. The hands are modularized, to allow a single Mule to be quickly and easily reconfigured for any of a dozen activities. Its straight-forward design layout allows most jobs to be accomplished with a minimum of training. If it needs to be done right, it needs a Mule.
Game information:
The mule is an entire exoskeleton, standing eight-feet tall. Aside from steel plates around the torso and head of the operator, most of the interior is exposed, providing only +2/2 armor. This acts like a shield for the purpose of armor calculations, and the operator can use other armor. It takes one combat turn to enter or leave the Mule, and one turn to pull on or remove the harness. While wearing the harness, the operator will not fall out of the Mule, however combat pool is reduced by half. The Mule’s maximum speed is 8 meters per turn. Because the operator’s arms are free and due to his height advantage, he suffers no penalties to melee combat, but is very vulnerable to flanking. The Mule is only useful for melee combat if the target is between one meter and four meters and in front or to the side of the frame, at which point the operator may attempt to engage the target using appropriate skills. It is not nimble enough to use ranged weapons of any sort. Hands take fifteen minutes to replace, and must be done by (metahuman) hand.
The Mule has a selection of modular hands and other upgrades, some of which are listed here. While basic actions can be achieved without significant ability, many require the use of the Robotic Arm skill. The frame does not come with a datajack interface, although one can be added using the standard vehicle rules. The Mule cannot be used by dwarves or trolls, or any metatypes outside of the normal human proportions. The Mule cannot use stealth, and its signature is 4. It has an effective Strength of 14.
Name Weight Availability Cost Street Index Legal
Mule Construction Frame 800 6/1 month $60,000 3 Legal
Standard hands 40 4/1 week $2,000 2 Legal
Pincer 50 4/1 week $3,000 2 Legal
Drill 30 4/1 week $3,000 2 Legal
Torch 60 6/2 weeks $7,000 2 Legal
Magnetic anchors (hands and feet) 20 4/1 week $2,000 2 Legal
Standard hands – these are three fingered hands made for most tasks. It comes by default with the frame. They allow for most actions require some degree of dexterity, using the Robotic Arm or Quickness test. Target numbers should be assigned appropriately. Picking up a 1 meter squared box requires a TN of 2 test. Picking up a person would be a TN based on the person’s quickness. Picking up a firearm would be a TN of 6. Anything much smaller would be impossible. Feedback to the controllers keeps the operator from accidentally crushing an item, although it may not respond quickly enough for especially delicate items. Should the operator try to crush something, the hands have an effective strength of 8 (causing 8M damage each round).
Pincer hands – these are designed for larger, heavier objects. They open wider than the standard hands and are stronger, they lack the dexterity. Add a +2 to all target numbers for successfully grasping an item. They have an effective strength of 12, (causing 12S damage each round).
Drill – this is a laser guided, dikoted drill designed for precisely drilling through the most difficult substance that takes a single hand slot. It is approximately five feet long. It comes with a shield for the other hand to help protect the operator and offers +1/1 armor for other purposes. It requires a Quickness(4) test to accurately and causes 14M damage per round (barrier and armor ratings halved).
Torch – this is a laser welding torch. Using carefully adjusted lenses, it has an effective range of only one meter, beyond that the calibrated laser beams are too weak to cause more than 8L damage. However, at the point of convergence, the torch causes 12S damage. Using it requires a Quickness(
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test against a moving target, 4 against a stationary target. It comes with a shield for the other hand to help protect the operator and offers +1/1 armor for other purposes.
Magnetic Anchors – These are a set of powerful electro-magnets that allow the Mule to magnetically stick to anything magnetic and strong enough to hold it. It requires two points of contact to keep from falling off (traveling requires “knuckling” to maintain the maximum points of contact). When turned on, it sounds an alarm and waits one minute before activating. Once activated, any metallic objects loose in the area are magnetically brought to and stuck against a foot or hand of the Mule. It requires an Strength(6) test to avoid losing an object in hand, and Strength(10) test to remove one already stuck on the magnet.
Pendaric
Feb 4 2007, 10:15 PM
I have a concept matrix local that I use in my game. It's orginal ish but not exactly a sota piece as it is a matrix 'place'. Would you be interested?
Sphynx
Feb 5 2007, 08:17 AM
I really like the Mule. Useful for coming in from under. Might consider adding in a limited scuba option to the Mule (working from underwater), which would, of course, require Scuba rolls. Is your wife working on schematic drawings for these?
Pendaric: I'll look at anything of course, if it's laid out in a professional manner.
Sir_Psycho
Feb 5 2007, 12:15 PM
QUOTE (nezumi) |
I've finished my fourth frame. Unfortunately, it's taken a lot more space to write out than I hoped (the previous three were one page each). This, of course, is the first draft. I'm going to put them all away and read over them again next week to straighten them out, but I'd like to hear your comments first.
[ Spoiler ] Ares Mule™ Construction Frame The Mule™ is the multi-purpose work horse for any industry that requires the ability to engage in heavy labor with delicate precision. Whether the job is to drill through a meter of plasticrete within two millimeters of precision, or to carefully maneuver a 500 kilogram crate onto the top shelf, the Mule can do it all quickly and easily, without the need for additional vehicles. The Mule boasts an 800 kilo reinforced steel frame with oversized limbs to house the strongest pneumatics on the market. The hands are modularized, to allow a single Mule to be quickly and easily reconfigured for any of a dozen activities. Its straight-forward design layout allows most jobs to be accomplished with a minimum of training. If it needs to be done right, it needs a Mule. Game information: The mule is an entire exoskeleton, standing eight-feet tall. Aside from steel plates around the torso and head of the operator, most of the interior is exposed, providing only +2/2 armor. This acts like a shield for the purpose of armor calculations, and the operator can use other armor. It takes one combat turn to enter or leave the Mule, and one turn to pull on or remove the harness. While wearing the harness, the operator will not fall out of the Mule, however combat pool is reduced by half. The Mule’s maximum speed is 8 meters per turn. Because the operator’s arms are free and due to his height advantage, he suffers no penalties to melee combat, but is very vulnerable to flanking. The Mule is only useful for melee combat if the target is between one meter and four meters and in front or to the side of the frame, at which point the operator may attempt to engage the target using appropriate skills. It is not nimble enough to use ranged weapons of any sort. Hands take fifteen minutes to replace, and must be done by (metahuman) hand. The Mule has a selection of modular hands and other upgrades, some of which are listed here. While basic actions can be achieved without significant ability, many require the use of the Robotic Arm skill. The frame does not come with a datajack interface, although one can be added using the standard vehicle rules. The Mule cannot be used by dwarves or trolls, or any metatypes outside of the normal human proportions. The Mule cannot use stealth, and its signature is 4. It has an effective Strength of 14. Name Weight Availability Cost Street Index Legal Mule Construction Frame 800 6/1 month $60,000 3 Legal Standard hands 40 4/1 week $2,000 2 Legal Pincer 50 4/1 week $3,000 2 Legal Drill 30 4/1 week $3,000 2 Legal Torch 60 6/2 weeks $7,000 2 Legal Magnetic anchors (hands and feet) 20 4/1 week $2,000 2 Legal Standard hands – these are three fingered hands made for most tasks. It comes by default with the frame. They allow for most actions require some degree of dexterity, using the Robotic Arm or Quickness test. Target numbers should be assigned appropriately. Picking up a 1 meter squared box requires a TN of 2 test. Picking up a person would be a TN based on the person’s quickness. Picking up a firearm would be a TN of 6. Anything much smaller would be impossible. Feedback to the controllers keeps the operator from accidentally crushing an item, although it may not respond quickly enough for especially delicate items. Should the operator try to crush something, the hands have an effective strength of 8 (causing 8M damage each round). Pincer hands – these are designed for larger, heavier objects. They open wider than the standard hands and are stronger, they lack the dexterity. Add a +2 to all target numbers for successfully grasping an item. They have an effective strength of 12, (causing 12S damage each round). Drill – this is a laser guided, dikoted drill designed for precisely drilling through the most difficult substance that takes a single hand slot. It is approximately five feet long. It comes with a shield for the other hand to help protect the operator and offers +1/1 armor for other purposes. It requires a Quickness(4) test to accurately and causes 14M damage per round (barrier and armor ratings halved). Torch – this is a laser welding torch. Using carefully adjusted lenses, it has an effective range of only one meter, beyond that the calibrated laser beams are too weak to cause more than 8L damage. However, at the point of convergence, the torch causes 12S damage. Using it requires a Quickness(  test against a moving target, 4 against a stationary target. It comes with a shield for the other hand to help protect the operator and offers +1/1 armor for other purposes. Magnetic Anchors – These are a set of powerful electro-magnets that allow the Mule to magnetically stick to anything magnetic and strong enough to hold it. It requires two points of contact to keep from falling off (traveling requires “knuckling” to maintain the maximum points of contact). When turned on, it sounds an alarm and waits one minute before activating. Once activated, any metallic objects loose in the area are magnetically brought to and stuck against a foot or hand of the Mule. It requires an Strength(6) test to avoid losing an object in hand, and Strength(10) test to remove one already stuck on the magnet. |
Woah I'd tone down the damage for the Torch and drill. 14M is very hard. It would be fairly easy to get as far off a drill as needed to shrug it off. I understand it would be painful, but I resent that it would be easier to shrug off than a large caliber bullet.
Also, maybe the torch could have the damage toned down as well, but roll to cause ignition of flammable objects.
nezumi
Feb 5 2007, 03:50 PM
QUOTE (Sphynx) |
I really like the Mule. Useful for coming in from under. Might consider adding in a limited scuba option to the Mule (working from underwater), which would, of course, require Scuba rolls. Is your wife working on schematic drawings for these? |
A SCUBA option... That would be interesting... I guess that'd be like a JIM suit then?
She's sort of wandered off to do some other artsy stuff for a bit and I'm afraid to ask her about SOTA65 since she's running on about four hours of sleep. She should be finishing up her other project this week though, so I'll poke her then.
QUOTE |
Woah I'd tone down the damage for the Torch and drill. 14M is very hard. It would be fairly easy to get as far off a drill as needed to shrug it off. I understand it would be painful, but I resent that it would be easier to shrug off than a large caliber bullet. |
Keep in mind, it's a five foot long, 60 pound drill meant for drilling through hardened material. Even using the "barrier ratings halved" rule I included, that means the drill, at minimum, needs a power of 8 (hardened materials have a rating of 32, divide by four). Would you like to expand on why the current value (10M) upsets you?
The torch I'm definitely open on. I don't know anything about welding. 12S might be high, but like I said, I have no idea.
Someone else pointed out that I neglected to put what skill is required to drive the Goliath *forehead smack* and asked about how one would make weapon hands for the Mule.
Pendaric
Feb 5 2007, 05:04 PM
Two things I posted previously:
linkmeta magic technique
Sphynx
Feb 5 2007, 07:12 PM
Pendaric, I'd be interested in adding both. I think they're both good ideas, tomorrow when I have more time I'll address each one in their own thread. Assuming we agree for the most part on everything, all i need is your permission to put them in the book.
nezumi
Feb 5 2007, 09:09 PM
QUOTE (Sphynx) |
Ok, here's my current projects and ideas.
The Wireless stuff which I've posted the pdf rules for, no comments so I assume, no objections?
Magic Build Point System which will include some changes from the current list of rules.
Psionics. Breaking them down into 3 categories for ClairSentients, Telekinetics, and Telepaths, with the following rules.
- ClairSentients cost 2BP and can cast only Detection Spells. Their ThoughtForms replace Psychokinesis with Concealability. Targets receive no Resistance Roll unless they are aware that the ClairSentient is attempting a Detection spell on them.
- Telekinetic cost 2BP and can cast only Telekinetic Manipulation spells. They reduce Target Modifiers for Sustaining a Telekinetic Manipulation spell by 2, which is compatable with Focused Concentration. This reduces ONLY the target modifier, not the target number. Means that a Telekinetic with Focused Concentration can sustain 2 spells without any negative modifier to their TNs.
- Telepaths cost 2BP and can cast only Control Manipulation spells. Their ThoughtForms replace Psychokinesis with Confusion and Fear. They receive -1 to the Drain Level of Control Manipulation spells.
A |
I was going to comment on the 2 BP thing, then read your Magic tradition creation rules, which I assume is what this is referring to.
"They reduce Target Modifiers for Sustaining a Telekinetic Manipulation spell by 2,"
The modifier for sustaining a manipulation already is 2. So they can sustain as many spells as they want for free? Not too bad a trade-off, considering how narrow telekinetic manipulations is as a category.
I wouldn't drop the Drain Level for Control Manipulations unless you make it clear that CMs are always detected by the caster. Control Manipulations are *THE* most powerful spells in the game, no question. Allowing someone to cast Control Thoughts on two or three fellows (since it's not hard to stage down 2M drain) is just asking for trouble.
With the half-races, do clarify in the rules that they aren't actually the results of an elf and a human or whatever, it's just a "lesser form" of the primary races. I think it would be interesting to throw in that say, a character was born to two human parents, but had faintly elven traits. He found that he was too elvish for humans, and too human for elves, and suffered even worse discrimination because of it.
QUOTE |
Mana hardening - 3 points. Characters with Mana Hardening are more resistant to Sorcery drain. Mana Hardening provides 1 additional die for Sorcery Drain resistance tests.
Spirit Hardening - 3 points Characters with Spirit Hardening have the same extra die as those with Mana Hardening, except that it applies to Conjuring drain resistance tests instead.
|
Spirit hardening seems fine. Mana hardening I'd avoid though. We already have albino gnomes. How much do we want mages to outpace mundanes by anyway? 3 points is right at that level where I'm squeamish about it (it's kinda like toughness, except more useful), 4 points would be a little more comfortable.
Reading over your magic pdf...
"Cost: (1BP per 5 Spell Points)" I'd rewrite that 5 spell points per 1 BP
"You may purchase more than 1 tradition to follow." I'd write out the word 'one'
So let me try this out. I'm going to make a cool mage.
I spend 5 points for him to be awakened. (I assume this cannot be bought after character generation?)
I spend 5 points on a tradition (hermetic). (Is there a reason you allow multiple traditions to be bought? It seems to me that shamanism and hermeticism, for instance, are completely incompatible, and the idea of a shamanic/hermetic is ridiculous. Also, I'm guessing this isn't something I can buy after chargen, so why not just roll it into the points to be awakened in the first place?)
Hm... If I were a shape shifter, I'd only buy 2 points of magic so all my drain is physical and can be healed, but I won't do that. I'll buy 4 more points, since 5 is the optimal force for resisting drain. Can I increase this after chargen through any method other than initiation? Regardless, if I know I'm going to initiate anyway, there's no reason to blow extra points here. 4 or even 2 will be enough for now.
Adept powers: Hey cool, let me buy one of those. Instead of getting a vehicle skill, I'll spend 5 points and get the equivalent of wired reflexes for no essence cost. Oh, maybe I should spend it in astral armor, then I'll be an astral combat god.
Astral perception: Nah
Astral projection: Sure, 2 points.
Spell points: Hm... Let's stick to 5 BPs here, stick to the "standard".
Sorcery: I'll spend the 4 points, although I don't know what the "first school of magic" is for a hermetic. Clarification?
Conjuring:A bit more pricey. Why the price jump compared to sorcery? No matter, I'll spend 3 points so I can summon say... fire elementals. They're pretty cool.
So my total cost is...
29 points. Not bad. What have I traded off? My spell casting ability is normal, but I've lost a magic point in exchange for adept powers (not sure how many, there's no price, so I'll assume it's equal to my essence: 6). I can project not not perceive astrally, but I can only summon fire elementals. Now granted, this doesn't seem to match the "default" hermetic, which would costs... 34 points. An adept costs... 11? And now he can project for only 3 more points? Hrm... That seems off. A telepath in only one school is 29?
Related, what's with making magic cost 10 karma per point? Are you talking about the Magic rating? Why are you tossing out the initiation rules? Why no cap? Does this let me buy back points lost due to cyber? This bit I think is worth dropping.
I do like the modular magic idea. I like being able to make a character with potential, but no ability (yet) so he can develop it over time, but this seems a bit too modular. It's going the way of SR4, and there's a reason I don't play SR4. Some things really should be exclusive. Hermetics shouldn't be shamans, adepts shouldn't be able to astrally project, etc. I would put more limitations on what combinations of powers are allowed.
nezumi
Feb 5 2007, 09:21 PM
I read over the wireless bit.
First note, don't forget to use spell check. There are a few minor misspellings that need to be tidied up. Secondly, I'd avoid the word "you" as well as the reference to "modern ipod players". None of the other source books use language like that, and I think we can benefit from holding ourselves to that standard of quality.
I'd consider splitting this up more. Generally the Game Information section refers to mechanics, and follows the colorful blurb. I don't see any reason to break this tradition. If you can write a page or two about living in the wireless world first, giving us a view of the devices and how they work, then half a page of Game Information, this will be more in-line with current books. Game information should be precise, using clear numbers for an objects weight and dimensions, as well as its price, upload speed, ACIFS rating, etc. It may be worth checking out the description of the Dataterm section of the Sprawl Survival Guide, where they write out all the functions of the trid and all the ways it can be used. They don't list the cost and dimensions for obvious reasons, but cover all the other information I'd care to know about it.
Because you're using wireless stuff, you'll need to specify where wireless technology is implemented, what kind of things it is generally used for, how the user interacts with it, and how quickly it moves. *I* understand what you're writing out because I've read SR4, but we need to write for new users who won't.
nezumi
Feb 6 2007, 01:45 AM
Just so people are aware, as a GM, I do not go to the SOTA books for more powerful items for already powerful character types, nor do I go there looking for ways to make the existing ruleset simpler or more complex. The former I don't want at all because it unbalances stuff, the latter I'll look to rulebooks for (like the appropriate weapons or magic book, or SR3R). SOTA, for me, is valuable because it expands Shadowrun into areas it lacks. SOTA63 went into merc equipment, 64 went into spy equipment. So as a GM, when I come to this project, some of these ideas really excite me and some don't. Pentara's (sorry for misspelling that, if I did) new metamagic and watcher ball is very neat. It doesn't make the characters much more powerful, but it's colorful and fun. Sir Psycho's thoughts on cigs I really liked because I've always really wondered what's happened to tobacco. I hope he hasn't thought the lack of response means lack of interest. I'm waiting! Expanding the psionic rules desperately needs to be done.
I definitely feel like we need to focus on grabbing stuff that expands Shadowrun outwards, not upwards. Astral art, tobacco products, race wars and telepathy push outwards. It seems like much of the focus so far has been on magic. Could someone look more at things to help counter magical threats as well? The watcher ball I'd group in there, but are there any groups which have specialized in being anti-magic "assets"? Any new ground taken in bringing magical ability into modern technology (like with the astral camera we saw last year?) Any progress in making passive defenses stronger? We don't want to just boost magical options without boosting counter-magical options as well.
Overall though, I hope I've explained why I'll be very hesitant about some ideas and very supportive of others. The magic creation system, at it's core, I like. I have always wanted to be able to put 5BPs towards it then awaken during game play. But I don't feel like it belongs in a SOTA book. Don't throw it away, it's definitely of value! But consider whether a SOTA book is where you'd put it.
Sphynx
Feb 6 2007, 08:08 AM
QUOTE |
"They reduce Target Modifiers for Sustaining a Telekinetic Manipulation spell by 2,"
The modifier for sustaining a manipulation already is 2. So they can sustain as many spells as they want for free? Not too bad a trade-off, considering how narrow telekinetic manipulations is as a category.
I wouldn't drop the Drain Level for Control Manipulations unless you make it clear that CMs are always detected by the caster. Control Manipulations are *THE* most powerful spells in the game, no question. Allowing someone to cast Control Thoughts on two or three fellows (since it's not hard to stage down 2M drain) is just asking for trouble.
|
Telekinetic Manip: The modifier is -2, not -2 per spell. So, sustaining 2 spells while casting a 3rd would incur a -2 (-4 + -2 ).
Control Manipulations: I assume you're referring to Influence there, since that's the only spell other than Control Emotions that the target isn't aware of being affected. I think changing it to your suggestion would not only defeat the purpose of the spell, but destroy any reason to play a Telepath. You're basically giving up all other spells in order to be good at the Influence spell. Even then, changing a force 5 2S to 2M isn't that large of a difference, since anyone who wants to focus on that spell will start with 8 dice to resist drain, rarely taking a light stun from casting it.
QUOTE |
With the half-races, do clarify in the rules that they aren't actually the results of an elf and a human or whatever, it's just a "lesser form" of the primary races. I think it would be interesting to throw in that say, a character was born to two human parents, but had faintly elven traits. He found that he was too elvish for humans, and too human for elves, and suffered even worse discrimination because of it.
|
Good idea, but I didn't want to claim that it's not actually a result of inner-breeding, actually wanted to suggest that most 'half' race members are children of inner-bred races, but that it only increased the chances, wasn't the rsult of inner-breeding. (After all, most people that will want a half-elf character will want a human/elf parentage)
QUOTE |
So let me try this out. I'm going to make a cool mage.
I spend 5 points for him to be awakened. (I assume this cannot be bought after character generation?) |
Sounds fair enough
QUOTE |
I spend 5 points on a tradition (hermetic). (Is there a reason you allow multiple traditions to be bought? It seems to me that shamanism and hermeticism, for instance, are completely incompatible, and the idea of a shamanic/hermetic is ridiculous. Also, I'm guessing this isn't something I can buy after chargen, so why not just roll it into the points to be awakened in the first place?) |
Multiple Traditions was mostly for conjuring issues. For a Phoenix Shaman to summon Fire Elementals, he'd have to spend an extra 5 points to understand hermetic conjuring. For a FireHermetic to summon Spirits of the Fire, he'd have to know a but about Wuxing. And yes, I intended for it to be purchasable later.
QUOTE |
Hm... If I were a shape shifter, I'd only buy 2 points of magic so all my drain is physical and can be healed, but I won't do that. I'll buy 4 more points, since 5 is the optimal force for resisting drain. Can I increase this after chargen through any method other than initiation? Regardless, if I know I'm going to initiate anyway, there's no reason to blow extra points here. 4 or even 2 will be enough for now. |
Yes, this can be raised to your natural maximum via Karma.
QUOTE |
Adept powers: Hey cool, let me buy one of those. Instead of getting a vehicle skill, I'll spend 5 points and get the equivalent of wired reflexes for no essence cost. Oh, maybe I should spend it in astral armor, then I'll be an astral combat god.
|
It's 1BP to 'BE' an Adept. 2 additional BP per Power Point, so essence free wired reflexes cost you 10BP plus the cost of being an Adept.
(PS. I see I forgot to include Power Point costs in the pdf, will fix that asap.
QUOTE |
Astral perception: Nah
Astral projection: Sure, 2 points. |
Apparently I forgot to edit in the PreRequisite of Astral Perception as stated in the
initial thread, again thanks. I'll add that ASAP.
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Anyhows, cost of character is +12 over your calculations at this point due to my errors.
QUOTE |
Spell points: Hm... Let's stick to 5 BPs here, stick to the "standard".
Sorcery: I'll spend the 4 points, although I don't know what the "first school of magic" is for a hermetic. Clarification?
Conjuring:A bit more pricey. Why the price jump compared to sorcery? No matter, I'll spend 3 points so I can summon say... fire elementals. They're pretty cool.
|
Again, a mistake on my part. Should have been 1, 2, 4 not 1, 3, 5. Will fix, now you're only at +11 instead of +12.
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QUOTE |
So my total cost is... 29 points. Not bad.
|
40 by the intended procedure.
QUOTE |
What have I traded off? My spell casting ability is normal, but I've lost a magic point in exchange for adept powers (not sure how many, there's no price, so I'll assume it's equal to my essence: 6). I can project not not perceive astrally, but I can only summon fire elementals. Now granted, this doesn't seem to match the "default" hermetic, which would costs... 34 points. An adept costs... 11? And now he can project for only 3 more points? Hrm... That seems off. A telepath in only one school is 29?
|
Obviously I need to clean that pdf up some.
Sphynx
Feb 6 2007, 08:37 AM
Sorry for the double post, noticed I forgot to answer this question:
QUOTE |
Sorcery: I'll spend the 4 points, although I don't know what the "first school of magic" is for a hermetic. Clarification? |
Not First school. One school of magic, and should be clariffied to 1 Category of Magic. My mistake.