Dumpshock Forums > Advanced char creation

FrankTrollman

Jan 26 2007, 10:52 PM

Weird. OK, for a challenge like this, I think it only fair to abuse the Latent Awakening trait for all characters. Why? Because when it goes off you start with a Magic of 1 regardless of current Essence. This means that you can purchase as much cyberware as you feel like, and then you purchase your Awakening and then Essence Loss costs you maximum Magic and not permanent Magic.

So sure, by the standards of this contest, there's essentially no reason to not be a Shamahackerai, so let's go to it!

First: Late Blooming Ork Witch

[ Spoiler ]

Why is he so wrong? Well, when he takes a Full Defense action, he rolls 20 dice, but more importantly he has a pile of Force 13 Spirits (which he can actually pull off because he has an Edge of 6 and a 24 die Binding Pool. He even survives the experience, because he has a Pain Editor and can jolly well take 26 points of Drain without passing out - which he won't do of course because he rolls 24 dice to resist drain and has an Ally Spirit.

2000 Karma is absurd. It seriously pushes the limits of what anything means. But we do learn something from this exercise:

Skills are too expensive.
The Karma system is extremely abusable, and totally unnecessary.
The Latent Awakening Trait doesn't do the thing that it is supposed to do, like at all.

-Frank

Butterblume

Jan 26 2007, 11:02 PM

I started with a mundane infiltrator. I used one I recently played, with slight modifications:
i) lowered edge to two to get more qualities
ii) redistributed some skill points to follow RAW (my GM allowed to raise skills out of skillgroups during chargen)

Not perfect, since I don't want to think to much:

QUOTE

Dwarf

Bod 7 (8 )
Agi 5 (9)
Rea 3 (7)
Str 6 (11)
Cha 6 (9)
Int 6
Log 6 (9)
Wil 7
Edge 6

Essence 0,07

Qualities: Ambidextrous, Blandness, Double jointed, First Impression, Photographic Memory, Allergy (uncommon, mild), Criminal Sin (bought off)

Cyber (all beta)
Commlink ,Datajack ,Hot-Sim Module ,Voice Modulator ,+Secondary Pattern 6, Cybereyes 2 (Eye Recording Unit ,Flare Compensation ,Image Link ,Low-light vision ,Themografic Vision ,Vision Enhancement 3) ,Cyberears 2 (Audio Enhancement3 ,Damper ,Ear Recording Unit ,select Sound Filter 2 ,Sound link ,Spatial recognizer), Bone lacing: Titanium

Bio (all beta)
Enhanced articulation ,Muscle Augmentation 4 (delta), Muscle Toner 3 ,Orthoskin 3 ,Platelet Factories ,Suprathyorid gland ,Synthacardium 3 ,Tailored Pheromones 3 ,Cerebral Booster 3 ,Mnemonic Enhancer 3 ,Pain editor , 4*group reflex recorders
,Sleep regulator ,Synaptic Booster 3

Skills (every skill is specialized, but I won't list that here)
Perception 6
Close Combat Group 6(7)
Throwing Weapons 6
Firearms Group 6(7)
Gunnery 6
Heavy weapons 6
Demolition 6
Cracking Group 6
Electronics Group 6
Influence Group 6
Intimidation 6
Stealth Group 6(7)
Forgery 6
Locksmith 6
Athletics Group 6(7)
Diving 6
DOdge 6
Escape Artist 6
First Aid 6
Mechanic Group 6
Outdoors Group 6
Armorer 6
Pilot Groundcraft 6
Pilot Aircraft 6
Pilot Watercraft 6

I used 369 karma for attributes, 1432 for skills, 94 for specializations and 20 to buy the criminal SIN off, for a total of 1915 Karma. And 3856k Nuyen.
With a little finetuning I would have no problem getting a retina duplication 6 and a voice modulator with secondary pattern.

OMG, this char would be boring to play

.

Konsaki

Jan 26 2007, 11:03 PM

QUOTE

Skills are too expensive

Agreed

QUOTE

The Karma system is extremely abusable, and totally unnecessary.

Just like anything else in the game. It's up to the GM to limit the Karma awards to reasonable levels...

QUOTE

The Latent Awakening Trait doesn't do the thing that it is supposed to do, like at all.

I dont fully track on this one... What exactly would be the whole point of the quality if not for this?

ShadowDragon8685

Jan 26 2007, 11:53 PM

Okay, I'm done. Here she is. She's not really a Sammy, and she's definately not an Adept, but she's a good enough Sammie.

She's a better drone rigger/pilot, which is what I originally intended to make of her. Then I realized that I had no real resources for mad drone activity, like I would've had in SR3 thanks to Rigger 3, and unless I was willing to spend every last

on a tricked-out GMC Banshee, I coulden't even get her a good combat vehicle.

So I did something else. She's a great hacker, great rigger, great sammie, but what she's best at is Face. She knows people. She knows every frigging body in the Sixth World almost. She courts Presidents and senators, CEOs and Great Dragons. She moves in many circles, from the streets of Seattle to the Oval Office to Congress to Megacorporate enclaves. She flirts with the Matrix, and it loves her back. She drops in to her favorite nightclub and buys her old friends the beat cop and the Chief Medical Examiner drinks, and she might fly out to Bejing on the next red-eye Semibalistic to attend the dedication of a new Wuxing building.

She's a combat monster, but she certainly can't compete with the likes of a tricked Adept. Nevertheless, nobody but nobody would touch her if they knew who she was. And if she's really, truely desperate, she can place the right calls and have some very serious backup bail her ass out of trouble. (Not, you know, that calling people like Damian Knight on an emergency basis is a good thing - you'll owe him a major favor later. But it beats dieing.)

So, here she is. Enjoy.

CODE

Initial Stats:
Mundane Elf (30 BP)
Bod 1
Agi 2
Rea 1
Str 1
Cha 3
Int 1
Log 1
Wil 1
Edge 1
Essence

Positive Qualities:
Ambidextrous (5 pts)
Lucky (20 pts)
Aptitude (Hacking) (10 pts)

Total points spent: 65. Remaining points: 335

Equipment: None

Active Skills: None
Knowledge skills: 6 (0 BP)
Knowledge skill: Ares Macrotechnology 6

Total points spent: 0. Remaining points: 335.

[b]Contacts:[/b]

(Names will only be given for major, familiar players; title and job work well for the rest)

[b]Named[/b]

Damian Knight, CEO 6/6

Nadjia Daviar, Large Brown Nipples 6/6

Fast Jack, Hacker 6/6

Celedyr, Great Dragon 6/6

Angela Colloton, President 6/6

Harlequin, Immortal Elf 6/6

Wu Lung-Wei, CEO 6/6

(Point of contention: I hold that Damian Knight and Fast Jack are one and the same. Do I still have to pay for him twice?)

[b]UnNamed[/b]

CEO Horizon Corp, 6/6

Regional Distribution Manager (American Northwest), Ares Macrotechnology 6/6

Regional Distribution Manager (American Northwest), Transys NeoNET 6/6

Regional Distribution Manager (American Northwest), Saeder-Krupp Heavy Industries 6/6

Regional Distribution Manager (American Northwest), Mitsuhama Computer Technologies 6/6

Fixer, Matrix 6/6

Fence, North America 6/6

Mr. Johnson, Draco Foundation 6/6

Blogger, 6/6

Trid Reporter, International Face 6/6

Fixer, Japan 5/6

Fixer, Australia 5/6

Fixer, U.K. 5/6

Fixer, Tir Taingire 5/6

Fixer, Seattle 4/6

Fixer, New York City 4/6

Fixer, London 4/6

Fixer, Washington (D.C.) 4/6

Lone Star Dispatcher, Seattle 4/6

Beat Cop, Seattle Downtown 3/6

Mechanic, Seattle 2/6

Tech Wizard, Seattle 2/6

Nightclub Owner, Seattle 2/6

Chief Medical Examiner, Seattle Morgue 2/6

Cybersurgeon, Delta Black Clinic 2/6

Bioware Surgeon, Delta Black Clinic 2/6

Total Points Spent: 355

2,135 / 2,000 Karma spent

135 Karma bought at the price of 405,000 Nuyen

[b]Attributes[/b]
Body (Raise to 6) 60 Karma
Agility (Raise to 7) 75 Karma
Reaction (Raise to 6) 60 Karma
Strength (Raise to 6) 60 Karma
Charisma (Raise to 8) 90
Intuition (Raise to 6) 60 Karma
Logic (Raise to 6) 60 Karma
Willpower (Raise to 6) 60 Karma
Edge (Raise to 7) 75 Karma

Total Karma spent on Attributes: 600 Karma

[b] Skills:

(Handy tables here)
Skill Groups and cost:
Group 1: 10
Group 2: 20
Group 3: 35
Group 4: 55
Group 5: 80
Group 6: 110

Individual Skills at cost:
Skill 1: 4
Skill 2: 8
Skill 3: 14
Skill 4: 22
Skill 5: 32
Skill 6: 44
Skill 7: 58

Knowledge Skills at cost:
Knowledge 1: 2
Knowledge 2: 4
Knowledge 3: 7
Knowledge 4: 11
Knowledge 5: 16
Knowledge 6: 22

New Skill Groups: [/b]

Athletics 6
Close Combat 6
Cracking 6
Electronics 6
Firearms 6
Influence 6
Stealth 6

[b]New Skills: [/b]
Escape Artist 6
Gunnery 6
Locksmith 6
Dodge 6

Pilot Aircraft 7
Pilot Anthroform 6
Pilot Ground Craft 6
Pilot Watercraft 6

Intimidation 6

Disguise 6

Demolitions 6

[b]New Knowledge/Language skills[/b]

History 2
Literature 3
Economics 2
Biology 2
Chemistry 3

Seattle Street Gangs 3
UCAS Politics 3
United Kingdom Politics 3
Ares Macrotechnology 6 (Original skill; does not cost Karma)
Aztechnology 3
Security Companies 3
Seattle Hotspots 3

Architecture 2
Business 3
Engineering 2
Military 2
Security Procedures 6
Security Design 3

Club Music 2
Matrix Games 4
Street Drugs 1
Wines 2

Language Skills:
English Native
Japanese 6
Chinese 6
French 6
Spanish 6
Sperethiel 6
Or’zet 6

[b]EQUIPMENT[/b]: 3,595,000 Nuyen remaining after Karma purchase

[b]Implant Enhancements: Cost: 1,937,500[/b]

Delta Cyberware:
Control Rig
Datajack
Ultrasound Sensor

Cybereyes Basic System (4)
Flare Compensation
Low Light Vision
Smartgun Link
Thermographic Vision
Vision Enhancement (3)
Vision Magnification

Cyber ears (4)
Audio Enhancement (3)
Balance Augmenter
Damper
Select Sound Filter (6)
Spatial Recognizer

Skillwires (5)
Touch Link

Delta Bioware:
Enhanced Articulation
Sleep Regulator

Beta Bioware:
Mnemonic Enhancer 3
Synaptic Booster 3

Cultured Bioware:
Muscle Toner 3
Muscle Augmentation 3
Platelet Factories
Tailored Pheromones 3
Cerebral Booster 3
Symbiotes 3

[b]Non-Implant Equipment: 446,430[/b]

Lifestyle:
Luxury (One month paid for @ 120%)

Other Equipments:
Workshop (Vehicle/Drone)
Workshop (Electronics/Computers)
Endoscope

Handheld Sensor/Security
Cyberware Scanner (6)
MAD Scanner (3)
Radio Signal Scanner (6)

Handheld Sensor/Thread
Atmosphere Sensor (6)
Geiger Counter
Olfactory Sensor (6)

Auto picker (6)
Keycard Copier (6)
Lockpick Set
Maglock Passkey (6)
Miniwelder
Sequencer (6)
Flashlight (Thermo)
GPS Receiver
Biomonitor
DocWagon Contract (Super-Platinum)
Stim Patch (6)
Tranq Patch (10)
Trauma Patch
Fake SIN (6)

Electronics
Area Jammer (10)
Directional Jammer (10)
White Noise Generator (10)

Commlink
Fairlight Caliban / Novatech Navi
Response Upgrade (6)
Signal Upgrade (6)
Response Upgrade (6)
Signal Upgrade (6)
System (6)
Firewall (6)
Satellite Link

Analyze (6)
Browse (6)
Edit (6)
Encrypt (6)
Reality Filter (6)
Scan (6)
Armor (6)
Attack (6)
Biofeedback Filter (6)
Black Hammer (6)
Blackout (6)
Data Bomb (6)
Defuse (6)
ECCM (6)
Exploit (6)
Medic (6)
Sniffer (6)
Spoof (6)
Stealth (6)
Track (6)

Armor
Urban Explorer Jumpsuit

Full Body Armor
Chemical Seal
Enviroseal
Helmet
Riot Shield

Chameleon Suit
Thermal Dampening (6)

Melee Weapons
Shock Gloves
Stun Baton
Extendible Baton

Firearms
Yamaha Pulsar

Ares Predator IV
Quick-Draw Holster
Silencer

Steyr TMP
Gas Vent 3
Smartgun System, Underbarrel
Sound Suppressor

HK-227X
Gas Vent 3
Shock Pad
Smartgun System, Abovebarrel
Bipod

Ares Alpha
Gas Vent 3
Airburst Link
Shock Pad

Ruger 100
Bipod
Smartgun System, Abovebarrel
Shock Pad
Silencer

Walther MA-2100
Bipod
Silencer

knasser

Jan 26 2007, 11:54 PM

QUOTE (Mistwalker @ Jan 26 2007, 09:03 PM)

Hmm, well you did break the rules in the amount of BP spent on getting positive qualities.

How do you figure he can move 50 meters? He is still limited to normal movement, regardless of how many initiative passes he has.

I bought the additional positive qualities for karma later on. I should point out that I actually got bored before I finished spending everything. You could probably get another couple of magic points out of it and you could certainly fill out the skill selection.

As to covering 50 metres, Jaid answered this one, though running is based on Strength, not Body, which makes rounding up to 50 metres slightly more reasonable. Picture this thing starting off at long range for your assault rife, sprinting towards you completely ignoring the hail of rifle bullets and within three seconds, smashing its way through the wall of the building you're hiding in (Smashing Blow adds half strength in DV) and setting about itself with 23 melee dice doing around 8P base damage before scaling, four times per round. I think this thing should get the Fear power for free.

Apologies for the +4d6. It was a cut and paste error from earlier.

Anyway, just popping in to see if there were any news on Arsenal and thought I'd share.

-K.

Butterblume

Jan 27 2007, 12:04 AM

QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685)

CODE

Initial Stats:
Mundane Elf (30 BP)
Bod 1
Agi 2
Rea 1
Str 1
Cha 3
Int 1
Log 1
Wil 1
Edge 1

Now, that's a BS attempt. A char like that would't even survive breakfast, much less shadowrunning on a regular basis.

ShadowDragon8685

Jan 27 2007, 12:13 AM

QUOTE (Butterblume)

QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685)

CODE

Initial Stats:
Mundane Elf (30 BP)
Bod 1
Agi 2
Rea 1
Str 1
Cha 3
Int 1
Log 1
Wil 1
Edge 1

Now, that's a BS attempt. A char like that would't even survive breakfast, much less shadowrunning on a regular basis.

No, but it was never stated that the character had to be set up such that they could survive as a neophyte runner.

Of course, a character like that probably could have, if only by doing favors, even at a major non-discount, for her not less than 17 starting contats at 6/6.

Besides, there's no other mechanical method besides starting build points to build up a character's Contacts. I paid for her final stats in cold, hard Karma, so what's the beef?

FrankTrollman

Jan 27 2007, 12:15 AM

QUOTE (Butterblume)

Now, that's a BS attempt. A char like that would't even survive breakfast, much less shadowrunning on a regular basis.

That's what the "spend a huge amount of Karma" challenge is all about though. You grab the efficiency report and figure out what is efficient to spend BP on vs. Karma and what's efficient to spend Karma on vs. BP. Attributes are practically free in terms of Karma when contrasted with their hefty BP costs, and Skills are even more absurdly Karma intensive than they are BP intensive. So obviously... we know where most of the BP went.

Heck, with my own Ork I started with all 1s except for having maximized Strength and Body. It's efficient that way.

It just underlines the fact that the Karma system is bad for the game. But of course, that's the best outcome of this challenge - to show the parts of the advancement system which are the most divergeant.

So for example: it costs 132 Karma to go from a starting Ork Body of 4 to a Body of 9. And it costs only 60 Karma to go from an Agility of 1 to an Agility of 6. But starting with either maximized costs 65 BP and starting with either minimized costs 0 BP. So guess which one is going to start at the top and which one is going to start at the bottom if you know that you get a crap tonne of Karma to spend?

Starting with a Body of 9 is a better deal than buying Qualities vs. buying it with Karma later on. But starting with an Agility of 6 is a worse deal than... just about anything.

-Frank

ShadowDragon8685

Jan 27 2007, 12:21 AM

Frank's hit it on the head, with one additional caveat in my case.

My Super-Face cannot spend either Karma or Nuyen on Contacts - she can spend Build Points on them. So it becomes a case of resources available only through one method - and since those resources are vital to the character, it was efficient to maximize the amount of that resource I could buy with that character's allotment of that resources.

Butterblume: You're just jealous that your Riggerdeckaurai dosen't know Nadijah Daviar and Damian Knight, and mine does.

Butterblume

Jan 27 2007, 12:23 AM

Oh, I appreciate the attempt, and applaud your idea to get a few contacts

.

But the karma was supposed to be earned from weekly runs rather than simply materialize. Of course, It doesn't make that much of a difference anyhow, in terms of spent karma.
(It does if you only have a few score to a few hundred karma)

Edit:

QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685)

Butterblume: You're just jealous that your Riggerdeckaurai dosen't know Nadijah Daviar and Damian Knight, and mine does.

Oh, she didn't at chargen, but I'm sure they've met since in a threesome.

ShadowDragon8685

Jan 27 2007, 12:29 AM

QUOTE (Butterblume @ Jan 26 2007, 08:23 PM)

Oh, I appreciate the attempt, and applaud your idea to get a few contacts

.

But the karma was supposed to be earned from weekly runs rather than simply materialize. Of course, It doesn't make that much of a difference anyhow, in terms of spent karma.
(It does if you a few score to a few hundred karma)

Edit:

QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685)

Butterblume: You're just jealous that your Riggerdeckaurai dosen't know Nadijah Daviar and Damian Knight, and mine does.

Oh, she didn't at chargen, but I'm sure they've met since in a threesome.

Yes, but is Damian Knight willing to send a Firewatch team or call in Orbital Options to pull your Riggerdeckaurai out of the fire?

My character's pretty much based around clout and pull and Contacts. The way I see it is that she has enough contacts to get normal gear (regional distributors) with little trouble, as long as she has some time, or she can sacrifice a point of Loyalty (elsewise known as "Owing a major-ass favor") if she needs a big favor in a big hurry. Courting the various people that she does, she's certainly got plenty of options.

She's also pretty damn handy to know. With her Etiquette and Negotiation and such skills at 6, she "cleans up pretty damn well", you could say. So well that she could escort such people as a President or a CEO or such to major functions. Not only can she be the escort, she can pull out hardware and protect their asses far better than the steryotypical black-suited thug can.

But she can just as easily dissapear into the Matrix, or a crowd, and can (and in fact takes pains to) fit in at the lowest rungs of society, too - beat cops, lesbian nightclubs, gangers, etcetera.

She basically moves in any circle she wants. Pretty much the best social chamelon you can get short of some freaky Adept. But overspecializing in Facing would leave an Adept pretty well screwed when it came time to, say, throw down, or get involved in something in a big way; she's just as capable as acting/interacting with a tactical team as she is with a Congress. She can hack almost as well as Fast Jack (And if I get ahold of about 60 more Karma, I'll buy the Aptitude (Hacking) positive quality and then the point to 7.)

Demerzel

Jan 27 2007, 12:37 AM

QUOTE (Mistwalker)

No contacts needed (too many ways of getting contacts, some cost karma, others don't).

You missed this part of the challenge then?

ShadowDragon8685

Jan 27 2007, 12:45 AM

QUOTE (Demerzel)

QUOTE (Mistwalker @ Jan 25 2007, 02:51 PM)

No contacts needed (too many ways of getting contacts, some cost karma, others don't).

You missed this part of the challenge then?

Note that it said "No contacts needed."

But I built the character around the concept of having a ridiculous number of ridiculously Loyal contacts.

Kind of like J.P. Morgan. When Morgan talked, the world listened. When the United States itself was on the verge of financial crisis, Morgan hauled all the bankers in New York City into his office, locked the doors, pocketed the keys, and refused to let them out until they penned the deal that established the Federal Reserve Trust.

When Morgan talked, people's ears were caught. He was never an overly rich man, pouring most of his assets into his work.

I'm envisioning her as kind of like a Shadow (and much, much prettier) J.P. Morgan. Not ridiculoufabulously wealthy, but lives in an AAA neighborhood and moves in the most influential circles. Brilliant, fabulously beautiful, a master of disguise and pistols, able to command the 'trix and drones alike. She's everyone's best friend, and heaven help you if you cross her.

Like that.

Demerzel

Jan 27 2007, 12:54 AM

The point isn't that you don't need them it's that you don't need to pay for them. Someone with Charisma 8 and Influence Group capped, plus all the appropriate other knowlege skills who has earned 2000 Karma, will just know those people.

Take all those build points and spend them, keep the contacts.

ShadowDragon8685

Jan 27 2007, 12:58 AM

QUOTE (Demerzel)

The point isn't that you don't need them it's that you don't need to pay for them. Someone with Charisma 8 and Influence Group capped, plus all the appropriate other knowlege skills who has earned 2000 Karma, will just know those people.

Take all those build points and spend them, keep the contacts.

Ah, but that's not so easy. The point of this excercize is, after all, to compare the wang of the best character you can make using the given variables; 400 build points, 2,000 Karma, and 4,000,000

.

That's why I did it the way it was done. And I'm happy with the result; there's a world of difference between "Knowing" the crowd, and having them as Loyalty 6 Contacts.