Well, I have a challenge for all you experts and nay sayers.

There are way too many sammy sucks, adept sucks, mystic adepts suck, etc... threads.
Magic is broken cause it is uncapped, etc...
Bioware is broken cause....

So, let's see what people can build with a large amount of karma and nuyen.
Here is the set-up
400 build points, as normal
No contacts needed (too many ways of getting contacts, some cost karma, others don't).
No starting gear (assume it was used up over the chars career).
Then add in 2000 karma and 4 million nuyen
No limitations on availability.

So, let's see these broken adepts, sammies, etc..

Hmm, would be nice if people could post a sammy and an adept, so that others can compare, to see how broken they would be compared to each other.

...the KK5.0-2000X project R&D team has just been assembled.

BTW, Positive & Negative Qualities?

sure, qualities allowed, as per the rules

I think I just had a Munchgasim.

I gave the challenge once to build a SAM with 10 million Nuyen. Some kind of Super Bodyguard.

Bottom line was that most of the time there is not enough cyberware to buy with the money, even if it is all delta.

This time, it's 4 million, though.

Mage done by tomorrow.

2000 karma, 4 million AND the origional 400 build points?! What's this all about... you could get a character to do anything with that kind of stuff...

It's about the other thread about if adepts suck. The point of the exercise is probably to show how in that extreme of situations the best will all be awakened.

As an excercise the otherday I looked at what I would put in my own personal combat monster if money were no object. I didn't think to compute a price, since money was no object. =P

Street Sam:

Race: Ork

Body 9 (10)
Agility 7 (10)
Reaction 5 (9)
Strenght 8 (12)
Charisma 5 (7)
Intuition 6
Logic 5 (7)
Willpower 6

Edge: 6
Initiative: 15+4D6
Essence: 0,26

Positive Qualities:
Quick Healer
Aptitude: Firearms
Exeptional Attribute: Agility

Negative Qualities:
Uncouth
(Removed 15 BP negative Quality)

Skills:
Longarms 7 (8)
(Sniper Rifles)
Automatics 7 (8)
(Assault Rifles)
Pistols 7 (8)
(Hold-Outs)
Blades 6
(Cyber Implant Blades)
Perception 6
(Visual)
Pilot Ground Craft 6
(Bike)
Dodge 6
(Ranged Combat)
Unarmed Combat 6
(Parrying)
Escape Artist 6
Parachuting 6
Diving 6
Stealth Skill Group 6
Athletics Skill Group 6 (11)
Biotech Skill Group 6
Outdoors Skill Group 6
Intimidation 6
(Physical)
Influence Skill Group 6
+many Activesofts Rating 4 from Skillwires Cyberware


Bioware:
Synaptic Booster III (Betaware)
Reflex Recorder: Firearms (Betaware)
Reflex Recorder: Athletics (Betaware)
Pain Editor (Betaware)
Suprathyroid Gland (Betaware)
Platelet Factories (Betaware)
Muscle Toner II (Betaware)
Muscle Augmentation III (Betaware)
Enhanced Articulation (Betaware)
Synthacardium III (Betaware)
Sleep Regulator (Betaware)
Adrenaline Pump III (Betaware)
Tailored Pheromones II (Betaware)
Cerebral Booster II (Deltaware)

Cyberware :
Cybereyes III (Deltaware)
+Flare Compensation
+Low-Light Vision
+Thermographic Vision
+Vision Enhancement II
+Smartlink
+Vision Magnification
+Protective Covers
Cyberears I (Deltaware)
+Damper
+Audio Enhancement III
Titanium Bone Lacing (Deltaware)
Skillwires V (Deltaware)
Datajack (Deltaware)
Internal Air Tank (Deltaware)
Dermal Plating III (Deltaware)
Spore (Deltaware)

Money used : 3,4335 Million Nuyen + Activesofts
Karma used : 1518

---------------
Adept :

Race: Elf

Body 6
Agility 8
Reaction 6 (9)
Strenght 6
Charisma 8
Intuition 6
Logic 6
Willpower 6

Edge: 6
Initiative: 15 + 4D6
Essence: 6,0
Magic: 24

Initation Grade : 18
Metamagics : Everything usefull

Positive Qualities:
Adept
Aptitude: Firearms
Exeptional Attribute: Agility

Negative Qualities:
Sensible System
Criminal SIN

Skills:
Automatics 7 (10)
(Assault Rifles)
Longarms 7 (10)
(Sniper Rifles)
Perception 6 (12)
(Visual)
Dodge 6
(Ranged Combat)
Unarmed Combat 4
(Parrying)
Pilot Ground Craft 4
(Bike)
Etiquette 4
(Street)
Leadership 6 (9)
Infiltration 6 (9)
Disguise 6 (9)
First Aid 3
Athletics Skill Group 5



Adept Powers:
Increased Reflexes III
Improved Senses (Low-Light Vision; Thermographic Vision; Sound Dampening; Improved Scent)
Astral Perception
Boost Attribute: Agility
Boost Attribute: Strenght
Boost Attribute: Body
Combat Sense II
Kinesics II
Mystic Armor IV
Pain Resistance IV
Enhanced Perception VI
Traceless Walk
Sustenance
Quick Draw
Motion Sense
Gliding
Commanding Voice
Improved Ability: Automatics III
Improved Ability: Longarms III
Improved Ability: Leadership III
Improved Ability: Infiltration III
Improved Ability: Disguise III

Karma used: 2000
Money used: 0 Nuyen

Cyber-/Bioware:
If its allowed he uses Muscle Toner IV (Deltaware), Pain Editor (Deltaware), Skillwires V (Deltaware); Datajack (Deltaware) and Platelet Factories (Deltaware).
Pain Resistance IV is useless then -> erase.

karma is very valuable stuff... using karma to have stats hit the max is always fun.

16 times regular starting wealth... removing availibility and rating restrictions... thats a lot of ware. but with delta, its only 1.6 times as much ware.

Deltaware: Datajack, cybereyes(r4, 13/16), Cyberears(r3, 12/12), control rig, ultrasound sensor, olfactory booster, skillwires 5, for a total of 1.5 essence of deltaware, or 0.75 essence after bioware. only 557,500!

Bioware (5.49 essence limit)- bone density 4, muscle augment 4, muscle toner 4, orthoskin 3, platelet factories, cerebral booster 3, synaptic booster 3 (base essence of 5.85 standard). with beta-grade bioware (2.1M), essence left is 1.155 (1.54)

Now, our sam has +4 to strength and agility (maxed from 5 base for humans), +3 react, +3 logic, +3/+3 armor and +4 dice to soak damage. the only ware that would need a permit would be the smartlink.

this leaves 1,342,500 for other equipment and/or wares. with over a point of essence to play withm thats not too bad! dont forget to buy software for the skill wires- agility of 5(9) is wonderfull when you can plug+play skill 4 for 13 dice.

Now to make people annoyed- make the above character a mage. 1 magic left. plus initiation. karma-sink like crazy, but you can see the fun there. personaly i would keep em mundane and grab more ware, but the option is there. on the otehr hand, you could take 'sensitive system' and writeup a wonderfull background of his medical history with ware. Or a technomancer is possible, with that extra resonance to stay functioning.

you could get more performance by fine-tuning costs and grade, but the above is the fast and dirty optimization. some things are a essence vs karma tradeoff (like the 4th point of agility from ware).

Personaly, i would go with an ork. stats of 8(12*) B, 5(9) A, 5(8 ) R, 7(11) S, 1 C, 1 I, 4(8 )L, 3 W before karma... easy to buy up the low stats with karma. (6+9+12+15= 42 for a 5 initive, thus 13 initive)

@celegar
Quoting the whole posting ?

Well, i did what the thread was about.

Okay, I buy a Permanent Luxury Lifestyle and retire.

You can buy a spare in case your enemies trash the first one.

I tried doing this tonight. Here's what I found:

Street sam was generally good at everything. High mental and maxed phsyical stats. All skill groups except medical and survival at 6. Most non-group skills at 6 (didn't bother with Heavy Weapons). Basically the Sam ends up being good at everything.

Adept: physical stats weren't as high as sam. However, could end up being much better at several specialties than street sam. As opposed to being max in everything the adept ends up being super-metahuman in about 4 categories. Equal hacking in either case unless adept specializes.

Mystic Adept: this is about the only thing that makes adepts worse than street sams at this level. Of course, worse is relative. Because they can now cast spells and summon spirits as a Magic 6 mage plus have at least 9 more Magic/Power points to spend. Brutal.

@cetiah
Thank you , thank you *the crowd quiets down, slowly*.

Well my first impression the the best character would be an elven cyber adept who started with exceptional agility.

Final stat line looks like:

BOD 7
AGI 12
REA 9
STR 9
CHA 8
INT 6
LOG 9
WIL 6

Cyberware (2 essence, 3,850,000 Y)

synaptic -3
super thyroid
muscle aug -2
muscle toner -3
cerebral booster -3
reflex recorder (firearms group)

Assuming 10 magic, you get
kinestics 6
improved ability-3 in hacking group + data search
Combat sense 6
And have 1 pp left over for something (maybe attrib boost-1 is each physical stat?)

You have 15 dice in passive defense
you have 20 dice in all social skills
you have 15 dice in hacking
you shoot things with 19 dice

Hmm I'll have to work up that adept assassin Idea I've played with under this. It's pretty good without a lick of cyber. And with 2k Karma I could initate enough times to pick up some really handy additional abilities.

BTW: If you get 3 Karma per playing night and play every week, it takes you 12 years to get 2000 Karma. As I seaid before. Everything beyond 300 Karma (realistic 2-3 years) is never going to happen.

Yeah, a more realistic approach would be 300 Karma and 1 Mio ¥ after the 400 BP (spent as desired).

Bye
Thanee

Ugh. I hate my life. I'll try and get something cooked up sooner or later. I'm sorry I've been taking so long, but I promise you, what I come up with will rock your socks.

Well, I used 5 karma per session, so a little less than 8 years.

The whole reason for this exercise is to see if the argument of adept is broken because of uncapped magic can be laid to rest.

...spent about 2 1/2 hours last night, got to about 430 karma & called it quits. The tough part for an adept is where to spend all the . Yeah you can take Permanent High Lifestyle for 1M but I am hard pressed to spend the remaining 3m. A Force 10 Weapon Focus that's only 100K. Armour, that's chump change. You can blow it on a fancy car like a Mitsubishi Nightsky & the like but pure Adepts really do not need as much as they need Karma.

I like Thanee's idea better, 300 Karma and 1M (which is about where the original KK ended up in SR3). That is more of a challenge. Time for the KK5.0 R&D team to retool.

It's really easy to spend that money. Synaptic Boosters 3, Delta. 2.4 million, .75 essense. Control Rig, Delta, 100,000 .25 essense. DJ, Delta, .05 Essense. Leaves you with room for, say, a Commlink w/Hotsim, Delta, .2 Essense, 70,000+commlink upgrades. Total Essense loss, 1.00. Cost approximately 2.7 million.

The remaining blow on hot programs, fast drones, and morally questionable joygirls.

Shakes his head

You don't have to spend all the NuYen, you can bank some of it, or blow the balance on partying.

The Karma was mostly for Adepts, with the NuYen mostly for Sammies and both for the cybered adepts.

Noticed this thread and thought I'd have a go at the Munchkin Adept. My personal opinion is that Adept and Samurai are about balanced, with the sam's having perhaps a small edge. But I don't fancy many characters' chances against this adept. I think I broke Shadowrun.

he needs a bow and arrow. or maybe just those throwing abilities.

Hmm, well you did break the rules in the amount of BP spent on getting positive qualities.

How do you figure he can move 50 meters? He is still limited to normal movement, regardless of how many initiative passes he has.

Elf
Charisma - 9
Willpower - 6

Magician
Focused Concentration 2
Exceptional Charisma
Exceptional Spellcasting

Spellcasting (Manipulation) - 7/9

Levitate

Magic - 25
Initiate - 25

Power focus R20
Sellcasting focus R5

Levitate

Cast Levitate on target at F20 for 11S drain, soak with 17+25+5=47 dice.
Spellcasting roll of 25+9+20 = 54 dice = 18 avg hits

Levitate target directly up at Force(20)*hits(18) meters per round = 360mpr = 130meters per second.
Hold for 1 second and drop target. rinse and repeat. If target has levitate also, perform action in reverse by dropping them onto the ground at 130mps or continue upward until they suffocate.

Overcast at F40 for 21P drain to move target at 720msr or 260mps.
Average drain soak is 16 dice.

Note: speed of sound at sea level = 340.29 m / s

Running is strength based, though. So your troll can get a few more dice by maxing strength, and adding the specialization 'sprinting'.

i thought this was adept as compared to street sam. where do magicians enter the picture?

Fine, replace Magician with Mystic Adept. Same difference really.