Full Version: help me reverst my strict Gm's house-rule
The best use for the dual induction pad is when you're using twin SMGs. Take a pair of Ingram Smartguns with custom grips and you can deliver a burst with each for no recoil penalties during the round (as opposed to the +3 you'd get for doing the same with just one gun). Not to mention double ammo.
Someone mentioned that laser sights don't stack with Scopes/Vision mag. That's not correct is it? 'Cause it's silly and wrong if it is and the rule will be ignored in my game. Not that anyone in my game has thought of that yet 
And hopefully they don't read it here.
And hopefully they don't read it here.
| QUOTE (Bearclaw @ Nov 4 2003, 01:31 PM) |
| Someone mentioned that laser sights don't stack with Scopes/Vision mag. That's not correct is it? |
They said that they don't in their game, which is correct (since it's their game, after all). The canon rules let them stack.
How hard is it to think up, though? The record sheets at the back of the Cannon Companion give that nice little breakdown of ranges with various modifiers. Lets you quickly see what you want to use when and where.
My current question is whether or not you can get the reduced grenade launcher scatter from a rangefinder + grenade link while using vision magnification.
The best part about dual SMGs with smartlinks is, if they do in fact accept both inputs, the fact that you've got both ammo counters counting down really quickly in your field of vision, and then you've got that cool effect as you pop both clips at once.
~J
~J
I'd say if you have 2 smartlinks implanted and you have a weapon in each hand, then you only get -1 from them instead of -2 because of the distraction of 2 crosshairs, even different coloured ones (you have to remember which one is which hand in order to draw a bead).
But it would be an on the spot house rule if it came up, because very few characters that I know of have taken the double smartlinks implant (which, by the way, I'd buy piecemeal without a second simrig or display link) so it isn't likely to come up.
I had a load of other stuff I was gonna waffle about but I've edited it out because frankly, it was all more 'here's my house rule' stuff, and didn't add anything to the discussion.
Bottom line, having 2 smartlinks and firing 2 weapons at once isn't specifically covered by the rules, so your GM or you if you're it will have to come up with something to cover it. There's been loads of opinions posted, mine included, and some of them brilliant (I really like the scope+aim rule. Wouldn't count it for cyber zoom, but certainly for a scope because you have to physically lift it to your eye). Go for it!
But it would be an on the spot house rule if it came up, because very few characters that I know of have taken the double smartlinks implant (which, by the way, I'd buy piecemeal without a second simrig or display link) so it isn't likely to come up.
I had a load of other stuff I was gonna waffle about but I've edited it out because frankly, it was all more 'here's my house rule' stuff, and didn't add anything to the discussion.
Bottom line, having 2 smartlinks and firing 2 weapons at once isn't specifically covered by the rules, so your GM or you if you're it will have to come up with something to cover it. There's been loads of opinions posted, mine included, and some of them brilliant (I really like the scope+aim rule. Wouldn't count it for cyber zoom, but certainly for a scope because you have to physically lift it to your eye). Go for it!
| QUOTE |
| The best part about dual SMGs with smartlinks is, if they do in fact accept both inputs, the fact that you've got both ammo counters counting down really quickly in your field of vision, and then you've got that cool effect as you pop both clips at once. |
lol
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| The best part about dual SMGs with smartlinks is, if they do in fact accept both inputs, the fact that you've got both ammo counters counting down really quickly in your field of vision, and then you've got that cool effect as you pop both clips at once. ~J |
Magazines.
-Siege
Issues of Time.
~J, still learning proper gun terminology
~J, still learning proper gun terminology
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| Issues of Time. ~J, still learning proper gun terminology |
I'm just being obnoxious. It's a Hollywood-ism that has been adopted by the mainstream.
-Siege
ok seige, I'll bite - what's wrong with clips? Genuinly. I only know what I've seen on TV and in SR - we don't have guns here! The only gun I ever owned was a 12 gauge shotgun (and not one of your fancy high tech pump actions either, no, a regalar two trigger double barrelled!), so all I really know anything about is the break action, saftey, and cartridge gagues of one specific weapon. Heh. Shotguns(break action)2(4). Yeah, I was pretty good according to my dad who I outshot regularly.
Anyway. Enough of shotguns, tell me about clips and magazines...?
Anyway. Enough of shotguns, tell me about clips and magazines...?
Technically that rectangular metal box that holds bullets is called a magazine.
Note I say "technically" since the term "clip" has become so ingrained that even people who handle guns professionally -- cops, for example, refer to the damned things as "clips".
I couldn't even begin to guess why it's a pet peeve since I don't handle weapons as a profession.
-Siege
Edit: A "clip" is a strip of metal that holds the bullets in place and is fed into the weapon. I _think_ the M1 Garand actually uses a clip to feed bullets.
http://www.civilianmarksmanship.com/access...c10pockets.html
Look at how the bullets are contained in the "clip."
Now, look at:
http://www.valtrousa.com/photogallery/clip.html
That big thing on the right side is a loaded magazine (even if the manufacturer lists it as a clip.html)
Note I say "technically" since the term "clip" has become so ingrained that even people who handle guns professionally -- cops, for example, refer to the damned things as "clips".
I couldn't even begin to guess why it's a pet peeve since I don't handle weapons as a profession.
-Siege
Edit: A "clip" is a strip of metal that holds the bullets in place and is fed into the weapon. I _think_ the M1 Garand actually uses a clip to feed bullets.
http://www.civilianmarksmanship.com/access...c10pockets.html
Look at how the bullets are contained in the "clip."
Now, look at:
http://www.valtrousa.com/photogallery/clip.html
That big thing on the right side is a loaded magazine (even if the manufacturer lists it as a clip.html)
A clip is a piece of metal that grips the back end of your set of 4-5 rounds. You push the entire clip into your rifle, and cannot add more rounds until all the rounds in the clip were gone, and the rifle ejects the empty clip.
A magazine is a (usually removable) box that holds the rounds before loading them into the weapon.
A magazine is a (usually removable) box that holds the rounds before loading them into the weapon.
Nice, I was going to say that.
We all got that term from watching Combat, didn't we?
We all got that term from watching Combat, didn't we?
So is there a special name for an internal magazine (as in most shotguns) to differentiate it from the removable kind? Other than "internal magazine" I mean.
I don't think so.
The clip in question is the clip of ammo used in the M-1 Garand. If you've ever played Medal of Honor, you know how it can occasionally be a pain in the ass.
I'm sure a similar system was used in other weapons but I don't personally know.
I believe the internal magazine on a shotgun has no other name.
The clip in question is the clip of ammo used in the M-1 Garand. If you've ever played Medal of Honor, you know how it can occasionally be a pain in the ass.
I'm sure a similar system was used in other weapons but I don't personally know.
I believe the internal magazine on a shotgun has no other name.
OK, thanks. Interesting bit of trivia!
| QUOTE (spotlite @ Nov 4 2003, 09:02 AM) |
| Bottom line, having 2 smartlinks and firing 2 weapons at once isn't specifically covered by the rules, |
It actually is. SR3 PG112 under the heading, using a second firearm
Technically it isn't even a "gun" if you want to be anal about it. It is a "firearm" or pistol, rifle, carbine, etc.
In the army they had an old little ditty,
This is my riffle, this is my gun, one is for killing, the other for...
Since this is a pg-13 forum I chose to leave the ending to your imagination.
| QUOTE (Siege) |
| It's a Hollywood-ism that has been adopted by the mainstream. |
And since it has been adopted by the mainstream, and is generally considered to be correct usage, then it is perfectly acceptable to use clips in that connotation. If it isn't technically correct at present, it won't be long before it will be.
| QUOTE (Fortune) | ||
And since it has been adopted by the mainstream, and is generally considered to be correct usage, then it is perfectly acceptable to use clips in that connotation. If it isn't technically correct at present, it won't be long before it will be. |
So I can still yelp and bitch until it is.
The major achievement for me is realizing it's a pointless act of resistance on my part. Now I just have to make myself stop...
-Siege
Shadow, seeing that this is the thread for pedantics, I have to say that rifle only has one 'f' in it. :)
| QUOTE (Tziluthi) |
Shadow, seeing that this is the thread for pedantics, I have to say that rifle only has one 'f' in it.  |
I knew that, I was testing you, and you passed!
| QUOTE (PlutoNick) |
| Still, I prove that the GM instead of checking the rulebook, he arbitrarily made a house rule. SR3 is flawless after all. The faq was right. |
I have played in games where the GM often makes that mistake. Instead of spending 15 minutes pawing through the books looking for an obscure rule, he obnoxiously makes up a quick rule and moves the game along. What an asshole.
| QUOTE (Zazen @ Nov 4 2003, 10:18 PM) | ||
I have played in games where the GM often makes that mistake. Instead of spending 15 minutes pawing through the books looking for an obscure rule, he obnoxiously makes up a quick rule and moves the game along. What an asshole. |
He's an asshole? For NOT wasting 15 minutes on something that he could check after the game? He could then start the next game with the correction. No interruptions.
I always apologize to my group for mistakes and such that I make. It happens. That's why I am always asking questions here.
15 minutes is a chunk. Some groups can't lose that much time.
Nindaru,
If I am not mistaken, Zazen had the [/sarcasm] tag on. It may not have come out very well, but I think he was making the point you just made.
I know in my group (when I had a group) I had a strict rule about pausing the game to dispute a rule. We didn't. You don't like my calls, tough cookies, talk to me after the game will change for the next time. Under no circumstances did we discuss during the game though. It can really kill a game to get bogged down in a rule argument.
If I am not mistaken, Zazen had the [/sarcasm] tag on. It may not have come out very well, but I think he was making the point you just made.
I know in my group (when I had a group) I had a strict rule about pausing the game to dispute a rule. We didn't. You don't like my calls, tough cookies, talk to me after the game will change for the next time. Under no circumstances did we discuss during the game though. It can really kill a game to get bogged down in a rule argument.
Damnit! Why do I always miss the /sarcasm tag?!?
| QUOTE (Nindaru) |
| Damnit! Why do I always miss the /sarcasm tag?!? |
It was done in dark grey pixels on dark grey background.
Hardly. Invisible ink! 
Ok, should I assume you are being sarcastic as well?
| QUOTE (Nindaru) |
| Ok, should I assume you are being sarcastic as well? |
No, he's being facetious.
Ack! More BIG words! Blast my shallow vocabulary!
| QUOTE (Tziluthi) |
| Shadow, seeing that this is the thread for pedantics, I have to say that rifle only has one 'f' in it. |
Pedants, not pedantics.
~J
Now that's pedantic!
| QUOTE (Bearclaw) |
| I don't think so. The clip in question is the clip of ammo used in the M-1 Garand. If you've ever played Medal of Honor, you know how it can occasionally be a pain in the ass. I'm sure a similar system was used in other weapons but I don't personally know. I believe the internal magazine on a shotgun has no other name. |
There are IIRC two styles of clips IRL:
Mauser style like used in Karabiner 98k or Gewehr 42/43 are "stripper clips" that hold the round until you load them into the magazine. Then you fit the clip, push the round into the magazine and retrieve the empty clip (IIRC it's reusable). The weapon can alternatively be loaded by loose rounds, the clip just eases the process (I.E the G43 uses a 10-round box magazine loaded with two 5-round clips)
Manlicher style (like the M1 Garand clip) are inserted into the magazine and remain there until emptied. Some are reusable, some (like the M1 Garands) are not. IIRC you can not "top of" weapons of this type, often you are even unable to load single rounds.
In german the clips are called "Ladestreifen" (loading strips / loading clips)
The german term for Wincherster-style underbarrel magazines is "Röhrenmagazin" or "tubular magazin" (AFAIK thats the term used in the US also).
Michael
"This is the H&K G3A3 battle rifle. It makes a very distinct sound if you load the first round. It also makes a distinct sound when you fire it. But since you are wearing sound dampers and the target will be dead before the sound reaches it, that sound does not matter." (German StaffSgt Graf doing the "Hartbreak Ridge")
I don't see the price for a magazine in any of my SR books, but I see the cost of a clip is 5 nuyen.
Doesn't SR use the term Clip to refer to a removeable magazine and Magazine to refer to an internal magazine, i.e. where you load the rounds in manually one at a time?
If so it was technically correct (in terms of SR) to use the term Clip when refering to SMGs.
If so it was technically correct (in terms of SR) to use the term Clip when refering to SMGs.
Those are the correct terms according to SR3.
| QUOTE (Shadow) | ||
It actually is. SR3 PG112 under the heading, using a second firearm |
You have a point. And it states that you lose all target modifiers like smartlinks, scopes, sights etc, and that each weapon takes a +2 TN. Seems fair enough to me!
| QUOTE (Nindaru) | ||||
He's an asshole? For NOT wasting 15 minutes on something that he could check after the game? He could then start the next game with the correction. No interruptions. I always apologize to my group for mistakes and such that I make. It happens. That's why I am always asking questions here. 15 minutes is a chunk. Some groups can't lose that much time. |
Just to make things clear. I dont expect the gm to search the rule book during gameplay, but during sessions. I was sarcastic too as well tho. We love our GM, without him we wouldn't play this faboulous game, and just in case he wonders in this thread, we certainly dont want him to get angry, or next time a dozen of street samurai [with combat reflextes turned on] will be knocking our door. Or whatever's left from it
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