The GM likes Negra Modelo! You get the points when I finish the beer.

Oh god, the worse the combat goes for the player the drunker the GM gets. I can see some serious abuses of GM power coming out of a budding alcoholism.

...shoulda been in my old Space Opera Campaign. Got a bribe from from a player who bought me a bottle of Malt Scot's Whiskey in retrun for 75 skill points.

Worked in my favour too. Since he had only a few Armsman skills he could raise he ended up spent more than half on Social and Cultural Skills. Turned his Steelback into the team's Diplomat.

For reference, I like a good single malt. The Islay Whiskys for preference.

...I'm partial to Talisker (Isle of Skye), Balvenie (Double Wood) and Glenfarclas. Though on some days a "good dram" or two of Sheep Dip just hits the spot.

I'm a simple vodka man, but let's keep this on topic please.

Hmm my best:

Start of new Amber campaign....

Show up with bottle of Jagermeister and Goldschlager.

Hey and the rules even say it is allowed to bribe the GM....

isn't this sort of on topic? people use alcohol to get lucky all the time!

Could be worse, the Clip Vs. Magazine thread turned into a debate over wether platipii have pouches or not.

*Double Take*

Oh thanks Demerzel I was actively trying to avoid that thread and now I'll have to check it out just to marvel at whatever forum twist must have happened...

I'm pretty sure Platypuses don't have pouches.

They're monotremes, not marsupials. That means they lay eggs.

Again, please take this back to topic

...ok, we have to get back to the topic (yeah i know I'm just as guilty for the part of the derailment here), I noticed that the whole Platypus tangent just closed down the Loading Ammo Terminology 101 thread.

I think this thread is pretty dead too, the original poster seems to have made up his mind or his GM has at least, and now we're basically keeping alive a finished thread.

Yep. I've left this one to either get back to topic, die on it's own, or continue devolving and get locked basically. Just waiting to see which at the moment.

Because we have guidelines on how to moderate the site, which include keeping threads on topic. Derailment when a question hasn't been answered yet is not good. After the questions been answered, I don't usually mid as much. But there comes a point where it's moved on to something completely different. We try to keep it organized, and two pages of a completely different subject from the original thread doesn't jive well with that.

I said before that if you really want a thread about cybering up a platypus, to go right ahead. Just keep the threads on topic.

Well, the OP seems to have made up his mind, then a related argument over edge and refreshing and Core/Optional vs. House Rules.

How far can a thread stretch and still be called topical?

Can a discussion on edge still be topical when the subject goes from edge to misrepresenting houserules as optional rules.

..hmmm, in attempting to re-rail the train a second derailment appears to have occurred.

(First post YAY)

OK. Let's say you only use edge for extra dice.

Edge Dice Cost
1 1 0
2 3 2
3 6 4
4 10 6
5 15 8
6 21 10

This is the only thing you can buy that scales this way. At 6 points you get 21 times as many dice. That doesn't make too much sense.

I think it should be used as only re-rolling failures. That means someone with 2 agility and 1 pistols will only get at max 3 successes, and normally 0 or 1. Adding into it edge will just make his small skill slightly more likely to get 1-2 successes, but giving him the ability to get up to 9 successes.

Or am I missing something.

I have no idea where those numbers are coming from but they seem wrong.

When you have 6 point of Edge you have six dice that you can add and you can add them up to six times between refreshes, no more.


Other attributes add their value on every roll that uses that attribute. While a high edge is potentially very powerful, the limit on the number of times it can be used more than balances this.

Actually, it only works that way if you're using one of the tougher variants. In most games, you can use (edge) dice (edge) number of times between refreshes, so it's a geometric progression. X^2, to be exact.

I'm still on the side that believes that edge is only a problem when the GM is, for one reason or another, too liberal with refreshes. That, and edge can make for the occasional very memorable scene or miraculous survival, but the fact of the matter is that an edge-based character can do things like that (edge) number of times, while someone focused on doing a task can be good at it every time they roll it.

A quick tip for formatting:
To format a table properly on the board use the code tag. Inside square brackets you open it with code and close it with /code (Alternatively use the little code button above the text entry box to add the tags for you. The result looks like:

Also, I'm not sure where you're getting your costs from. If Karma, isn't increasing an attribute 4*current attribute? And then you're discounting the cost of the previous attribute increases. Taking an attribute from 1 to 6 means you pat for 2, 3, 4, etc.

If it's BP then it should be 10 per point not 2 per point.

Shoot. Had my math wrong. I also was thinking points in sr3 points build.

Edge Dice
1 1
2 4 10
3 9 20
4 16 30
5 25 40
6 36 50


That's what I meant to show I just wasn't thinking.
A 10 point difference between 4 and 5 and 5 and 6 (if your a human)
10 points gets 9 dice from 4-5 and 11 dice from 5-6.

That's what I meant.

I still don't get what your point is.

No other attribute give a scaling benefit. With Logic, you get 4 dice when rolling logic, or 5 dice. With an extra point of edge, it doesn't just give 1 die over 4 points, it gives an extra 9 dice at any time to use.

Well, the thing is it is some number of extra dice at ANY point. You buy one point and you only get 1 die on a roll you choose to use edge on, you can only use one edge on a single roll.

Consider the difference between 4 Agility and 5 Agility, compared to 4 Edge and 5 Edge.

At 4 Edge you get to add 4 dice 4 times per edge refresh (May be one run, may be one day, depends on GM). Let's assume it is fast and you get it every day. If you change from 4 to 5, now you get 5 dice 5 times. But that’s really only one extra use, and one extra die each time. Like you said, 9 extra dice total, if you zero your edge every refresh, which may or may not be good play style… I won’t get into it.

Now lets say you change your agility from 4 to 5, well the value will vary widely. But let’s say you’re a Wired II equivalent Street Sam and you have a combat that lasts three combat turns. You get 9 sets of actions, two shots per action. That 5 Agility gets you 18 extra dice, compared to 4 Agility. On top that off with the fact that it never runs out and you get that extra die every time.

On balance I think Edge is no more overpowering that other attributes. I think like every attribute it can be abused/munchkined. But I do not share the view that some of the people expressed eairler in this thread that edge is overpowered.

Well Edge can be overpowered compared with regular attributes because it is added on top of the existing Attribute + Skill. It isn't really an attribute either. It's a metagaming mechanic to make the game more cinematic. (I know that I'm not saying anything new with this)

I have had some problems with this system making the pools too high but it is those highly cinematic times.

What I did was change Edge around a bit. I separated XP from Karma and gave them both out. You spend a point of karma to get your Edge in dice added to a test. You may only have a few karma or alot if you stockpile. This way they can save for big battles. It works just fine but I know that it isn't a popular idea from the lack of response about it on this board.

Another way of dealing with Edge is to not just cap it - set it. Decide on how powerful you want your game. Say you want it somewhat gritty. Set edge at 3. Everyone gets it for free at that level but they can't change it either. Once they have become powerful enough then up it to 4. If you want it to be a major factor then start it at 5. It becomes a PC version of professional rating.

Thank you for explaining it how I wanted to. My problem with lowering the dice as you go, what if you just wanted 3 extra dice, and save the 6 for when you REALLY need it. You can't really do that.

Check for the other threads that indicate how many cases when it's more useful to use the reroll failures option over the add dice options.

I've found for most of my players rerolls are better and then that odd mechanic doesn't enter into it. I don't have anyone who has a 6-8 edge however. So there's probably a cut-off point where the ammount of rerolls deminishes compared to adding dice.